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-   -   Early SF, MON Space Station (http://www.papermodelers.com/forum/alternate-dimensions/18081-early-sf-mon-space-station.html)

Diderick A. den Bakker 01-23-2012 01:41 PM

Early SF, MON Space Station
 
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I the '50ties (and perhaps early '60ties) MON, the Polish Ministry of Defense, published a number of paper models, among them two SF models. Very rare now, so it was a very pleasant surprise when one of the customers of my internet shop (www.zeistbouwplaten.nl) allowed me to borrow and make scans of both of them: a Spaceship, and this 'Wielky "Stuczny Ksiezyc" Stacja Kosmiczna' (literally: large 'Artificial Moon' space station).
This fantasy model has obviously been inspired by the ideas of Wernher von Braun, his illustrator Chesley Bonestell and the Walt Disney TV documentaries 'Man in Space' (for a short introduction, see page 'Early SF' on my website - and Google).
The original MON models are a bit bigger than A4, so I scaled it down slightly. There are several pages of instructions in Polish, but fortunately also a few b/w photographs with part numbers. It is not a complicated model, so I don't expect too many puzzles.
The first stage was easy - the skeleton for the main wheel, as shown in the picture. It is lying on top of the cover illustration of the original publication.

SJPONeill 01-23-2012 01:54 PM

If you're building a scan of a model that you do not own the original hard copy of, does that not undermine one of the fundamental principles of this web site?

I think that the ownership and copyright of the Mon series of models probably lies in a rather grey area however until such time as the Polish Government (as the logical inheritor of the rights to Mon Models) actually declares its relinquishment of any claim over them, the normal rules apply?

ringmaster 01-23-2012 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SJPONeill (Post 266159)
If you're building a scan of a model that you do not own the original hard copy of, does that not undermine one of the fundamental principles of this web site?

I think that the ownership and copyright of the Mon series of models probably lies in a rather grey area however until such time as the Polish Government (as the logical inheritor of the rights to Mon Models) actually declares its relinquishment of any claim over them, the normal rules apply?

I think preserving these rare artifacts from extinction trumps any copyright concern.

Diderick A. den Bakker 01-23-2012 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SJPONeill (Post 266159)
If you're building a scan of a model that you do not own the original hard copy of, does that not undermine one of the fundamental principles of this web site?

I think that the ownership and copyright of the Mon series of models probably lies in a rather grey area however until such time as the Polish Government (as the logical inheritor of the rights to Mon Models) actually declares its relinquishment of any claim over them, the normal rules apply?

We have been here before, haven't we? The normal rule is, that I take the responsibility upon myself. It will be my problem if and when the Polish government decides to sue me. Somehow, I don't really think they will...
However, if you don't want the forum to be tainted by my building report on this 50 year old model, by all means go ahead and remove it.

SJPONeill 01-23-2012 03:50 PM

No need to be grumpy :) - this is a topic core to this forum and one even more topical with the crash-down of Megaupload this week and the US national discussion on SOPA this month.

I would love for a decision to be made by the admins of this site to allow the building of scans of paper models that have not been published for decades and for which there is no clear succession of copyright, both circumstances that surround the Mon models. I love their retro simplicity and very cool range of subjects...

However, I am sure that you would be somewhat miffed if I took a similar approach to the PaperTrade line in order to preserve them from extinction as stated above by another poster - and shared them around to further mitigate potential said extinction...

It is unfortunate that various initiatives to date to secure or even clarify the status of the Mon models have not been successful - there seems a general reluctance in some nations to consider the contemporary e-model versus the traditional pre-printed paper model - but this may simply be something that we have to endure til such time as they are republished (as Maly Modelarz is doing with some of its models from the same era) or the rights are confirmed as being freely in the public domain.

B-Manic 01-23-2012 05:27 PM

It is unfortunate that nations such as the US and NZ have either passed or are trying to pass laws that ensure there is no such thing as public domain (ACTA, SOPA, PIPA, TPP, and who can forget the sneaky implementation in NZ of 'The Copyright (Infringing File Sharing) Amendment Act of 2011')

Public Domain Works Can Be Copyrighted Anew, Supreme Court Rules
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/19/bu...ices-rule.html

SJPONeill 01-23-2012 05:40 PM

Actually it wasn't that sneaky at all and was well-discussed and debated before enactment. It is nowhere in the same class as SOPA...

It is also rather irrelevant to this discussion which is not about material that has always been in the public domain or which reasonably could be construed to now be in the public domain. It is about where paper models that have been out of print for some decades can be considered public domain in the light of the policy of this and most other respectable paper modelling forums. The MON models were originally developed and published by the Polish Defence Ministry (as are Maly Modelarz) which, regardless of ideology, still exists today - thus any argument that the copyright owner no longer exists or has died are probably somewhat moot, such being the typical argument in such cases.

If, such models are considered reasonably to now be part of the public domain, then we probably need to establish some guidelines as to when in time this point is reached. At the moment, the assumption seems to be that if the model id out-or-print and the publisher no longer trading, then its products are fair game which opens up a whole raft of new models for us to hook into...

Please, don't gte me wrong: I'd love to be able to build the Mon line as A think that they are great models from their time BUT I think that we have to be very careful in just accepting arguments that are convenient and disregarding those that are not.

Millenniumfalsehood 01-24-2012 10:09 PM

In any case, copying for oneself is fine. Copying and distributing is a big no-no, though.

Diderick A. den Bakker 01-25-2012 02:20 AM

1 Attachment(s)
While we were getting this point cleared up, I have continued the construction. As compared to the very sophisticated Cosmostrator I did recently this is very simple indeed - obviously aimed at children rather than serious modellers. Large and uncomplicated! For instance: the segments of the ring are intended to simply fit (more or less) against each other, no tabs provided. After gluing six of them in place, a discrepancy began to build up - so from that point onwards I added them alternatingly, so that any more fitting problems would at least be spread around the rest of the circumference. Also, I squeezed some white glue into the larger seams - thus giving the whole ring a bit more stiffness.
The picture shows the ring, the solar energy collector and part of the central construction. This last bit is taking some time to figure out - I only have the alphabetical order of the parts to go on, and a few very fuzzy pictures.
However simple, I am enjoying the build - I like to imagine the way people thought about the future, back in the '50ties. And a 'behind-the-iron-curtain' model like this also shows that even though people in countries like Poland and Russia were allowed little or no information from, or contact with the West, some of them had a very shrewd idea of what was going on there. But of course the text never mentions their indebtedness to Von Braun and Bonestell / Walt Disney...

thorst 01-25-2012 05:01 AM

Very interesting model! May I ask - which strength had the paper you used for the "skin"? Was it photo paper? It looks glossy on this last picture.


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