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  #111  
Old 11-17-2018, 08:56 PM
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dhanners dhanners is offline
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A Donnager-class ship would be a welcome addition, as would a Morrigan-class ship or the Arboghast.
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  #112  
Old 11-17-2018, 10:00 PM
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Jadriancz Jadriancz is offline
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that is a good decision as well.. Figured on the cargo fuel version all the cross beams woulda been a pita.
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  #113  
Old 11-18-2018, 02:48 PM
TomW TomW is offline
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Originally Posted by dhanners View Post
A Donnager-class ship would be a welcome addition, as would a Morrigan-class ship or the Arboghast.

Question: Where are people getting the frame rips and 3 - 5 vu dwgs? I'd like to see a few myself to see if I can 'suspend my disbelief' long enough to consider if the vehicles are rational.


TomW.
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  #114  
Old 11-18-2018, 07:39 PM
Cheesy Wotsit Cheesy Wotsit is offline
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Originally Posted by TomW View Post
Question: Where are people getting the frame rips and 3 - 5 vu dwgs? I'd like to see a few myself to see if I can 'suspend my disbelief' long enough to consider if the vehicles are rational.


TomW.

Frame rips are from the show itself VLC and Fraps do the job well enough as for the schematics, well the folks behind the show have released drawings for most of the major ships in the show.


Not sure what yopu mean by rational though, the books and show describe the tech and the science behind them to be pretty rational.
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  #115  
Old 11-18-2018, 09:24 PM
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dhanners dhanners is offline
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Everything I've found was on Google images, except for a couple of screencaps I took myself showing Rocinante's battle-damage repairs. The 1/144th-scale version I built incorporated the patches.

And yeah, as sci-if ships go, nothing on "The Expanse" is too exotic or bends the laws of physics. The books/show is known for that.
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  #116  
Old 11-19-2018, 03:03 PM
TomW TomW is offline
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I've read the first four books and I agree they are mostly logical - with the exception that they apparently are capable of generating a localized gravity field at 90 degrees to the ships thrust vector. Also, they generate a constant acceleration with a mass ejection propulsion plant (basically, a rocket) which apparently needs no mass to eject.


Not having seen the shows, I have no knowledge if this is the only thing I need to suspend belief, or, if like Star Trek, I also must accept a universe with indigenous planetary inhabitants capable of interbreeding with humans among other handwavium or nonobtainium objects.


Having been reading SF for over 65 years, I've grown accustomed to much better worldbuilding by the authors. Unless they are obviously writing Space Opera.


TomW.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesy Wotsit View Post
Frame rips are from the show itself VLC and Fraps do the job well enough as for the schematics, well the folks behind the show have released drawings for most of the major ships in the show.


Not sure what yopu mean by rational though, the books and show describe the tech and the science behind them to be pretty rational.
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  #117  
Old 11-19-2018, 06:15 PM
ricomon35 ricomon35 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomW View Post
I've read the first four books and I agree they are mostly logical - with the exception that they apparently are capable of generating a localized gravity field at 90 degrees to the ships thrust vector. Also, they generate a constant acceleration with a mass ejection propulsion plant (basically, a rocket) which apparently needs no mass to eject.


Not having seen the shows, I have no knowledge if this is the only thing I need to suspend belief, or, if like Star Trek, I also must accept a universe with indigenous planetary inhabitants capable of interbreeding with humans among other handwavium or nonobtainium objects.


Having been reading SF for over 65 years, I've grown accustomed to much better worldbuilding by the authors. Unless they are obviously writing Space Opera.


TomW.
The ships in the series all have decks at 90 degrees to the ships long axis, so the gravity comes from the thrust.

There's a Killer discussion on the Epstein Drive wiki re: the fuel and engine types Epstein Drive | The Expanse Wiki | FANDOM powered by Wikia

Last edited by ricomon35; 11-19-2018 at 06:35 PM.
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  #118  
Old 11-19-2018, 09:34 PM
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dhanners dhanners is offline
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The books and show also get Atomic Rockets' seal of approval:
Seal of Approval - Atomic Rockets
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  #119  
Old 11-23-2018, 10:35 AM
michaelgr michaelgr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomW View Post
I've read the first four books and I agree they are mostly logical - with the exception that they apparently are capable of generating a localized gravity field at 90 degrees to the ships thrust vector. Also, they generate a constant acceleration with a mass ejection propulsion plant (basically, a rocket) which apparently needs no mass to eject.
TomW.

The speed of a ship that uses an kind of rocket-like drive depends on two factors: the ejected mass, and the speed of the ejected mass. (momentum = mass*velocity). Chemical rockets have exhaust velocities that are around thousands of meters per second. that's fairly low; exhaust velocities in ion drives are in the hundreds of thousands, and C is 300,000,000 meters per second, so you can posit a ten-thousandfold increase in exhaust velocity (and thereby specific impulse) and still be within the realm of physical possibility. Then your fuel tank can have the size of an SUV's gas tank and still take you all across the solar system. Also, your drive becomes a literal death ray, but that's beside the point.
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  #120  
Old 11-23-2018, 02:25 PM
TomW TomW is offline
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Note that the bridge is oriented at 90 degrees to the nominal thrust vector; either the ship has antigravity/artificial gravity or the bridge crew are going to have a permanent crick in the neck from tilting their heads back to observe out the vision port/window.



The specific impulse is one of the problems with the ship that gives me heartburn. I've spent over 2/3 of my professional career involved in Aerospace with a SF background as a reader going back for 60+ years, and aside from the unproven reactionless thruster now being investigated all other non-existing propulsion methods are either anti/artificial gravity based or extensions of existing designs.



No chemical method of producing thrust is going to exceed the Hydrogen/Fluorine rocket and that ones exhaust is measured in terms of ten's of thousands of meters per second and large amounts of mass providing very short periods of thrust using very large amounts of mass; the ion drive is exceptional with an exhaust measuring in the hundreds of thousands meters per second but using a very small amount of reactive mass in extremely small units per time giving long periods of very small thrust per pound of mass.


There would have to be an extreme change in the laws of physics to provide the constant thrust over time to provide what is apparently at least .3 G's of thrust for the duration of the trips. and you still wind up with very long periods between planet falls.


When the writers of the screenplays ignore the laws of physics they wind up writing fantasy. Therein lies the rationality problem for me in that they are saying this depiction is realistic. Reality just doesn't conform to Hollywood.


However, I still like the ship designs, just need to rework the rationale behind them.


TomW.
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