C-130 / AC-130 Hercules Redraw/Redesign (by Airdave)

[airdave]

As the title states, I am working on a complete redraw and redesign of the C-130.

I am hoping to add the necessary modifications to produce the AC-130 Spectre Gunship.
I'd also like to produce at least one Camo paintscheme Hercules C-130.
Who knows, maybe even redo the Blue Angels Fat Albert?

http://www.chinataiwan.org/xwzx/MilitaryNews/201008/W020100823379145020464.jpg

This will be a big project for me, and since I already have other things on the go, this won't be a quick project.

Hopefully anyone interested will help me along the way and give me some advice.

One of the first questions I have is about scale...
Nobi's C-130 kit (the one I used for my original Fat Albert repaint) is 1/48 scale.
That makes the final model about 24.5" long with a Wingspan of just over 33".

This is all based on Hercules specs, since I haven't built the model completely, at full scale, I can't corroborate those numbers.
I have however built a partial plane (no wings) at 2/3 of the original size and it came out at 16.3" long.
Which happens to be exactly 1/72 scale...so that kinda verifies the 1/48 scale measurements.

1/48 would be a nice build size for the model,
but with a 33"plus wingspan, many modelers might not be interested in the kit.
Since I have to appeal to the masses (the buying public that is) I have to consider what the majority of modelers will prefer.

Another reason for me to consider a downscale, is to reduce part size on the pages of the Kit.
This might not only reduce the number of pages in the kit, but more importantly,
allow me to reassemble certain areas of the model.
Like the Wings for example, which at 1/48 scale are made up of about 6 sections...at 1/72 scale I can probably reduce this to three or maybe even two sections.

Please let me know what you think about a final scale size for this kit...
do you prefer:

1/48 scale (final model is 24"plus long, with a 33"plus Wingspan)
or
1/72 scale (final models is 16"plus long, with a 22"plus Wingspan)

Keep in mind, the smaller scale makes a few areas a little trickier to build and reduces certain details that are available in the larger scale.

.................................................. ..

http://www.thewe.cc/thewei/_/images10/somalia/ac-130_gunship.jpe

I'd like to keep you updated as the design for this plane progresses,
and I'd love to hear any suggestions for additions, modifications or necessary alterations to the C-130 model.

[tedparkes]

My vote goes for as big as possible, but then im building a 13 foot sub so my vote shouldnt count much, im with richkat on big models :D. Whatever scale you choose, the Spectre is a wicked beast and I cant wait to see it.

[cMags]

1:72 is my favorite scale, but I like models with more details than most people build at 1:72 so I vote for the larger scale so I can make the little details even littler when I scale it down. :p

[Texman]

Dave,

I was a flight engineer (best seat in the -130) back at Pope AFB, in the early 90's,
when the 23rd became the 23rd Composite wing. When the time comes maybe you'll consider...

58241

[airdave]

Right now I am starting the redraw of the model...this will take a fair bit of work.
I need to stay focused on the model and getting the basics of the C130 in place.
My goal is to create a new base model to work with before thinking about anything else.
I am trying real hard not to focus on the AC-130 or any Herc for that matter.
And trying not to think about paint schemes and model mods for the Gunship version.

...but I have already been researching the Gunship armaments! lol
I just can't stop looking at stuff!
I do like the sharkmouth artwork.

.............................

So whats that Ray?...just a basic C130E, in the lighter gray, with sharkmouth art.
Nothing else special about it?

.................................

When I get a little more understanding of versions, I will put out some request for paint schemes.
I will have my favorites and choices for repaints, but I will definately ask for some opinions and suggestions.
For now...focus on the model artwork.

[John Bowden]

It's easier to scale down a model than scale up.

I say go with 1/48 with instructions listing at what percentage to print at other scales.

[Hans Christian]

Hi there sir!

I'm interested in this one as well!

I do have a 1/72 scale p****** kit of the AC-130H and a 1/48 scale kit of the AC-130U, plus some detail for the individual variants...

first tip though... since the USAF has been updating/modifying these gunpigs for many years already... (especially the AC-130H... the current one is very different compared to how it looked when it first flew many decades ago... and I'm talking about the same airplane here, not some recently made one)

please post any queries, I already collected tons of images (from various sources over the years) to cover most (if not all) of the mods made on these airplanes

thanks so much again for tackling this one!

[Texman]

Sorry Dave, just a plain 130E, nothing overly special equipment wise. Just the teeth. Chicks dig the Flying Tiger artwork!

[airdave]

no problem Ray...I do like the sharkmouth artwork...so, if I end up doing a gray version, thats about my best choice!

I'll focus on one or two Gunships first...and then try some C-130s.

And yes, Hans, the choice of gunship is up in the air at the moment.
I am aware of the many changes over the years.
At the moment, I am partial to the first versions, interesting paint schemes,
but I will have to see how the design work goes before i commit to anything.

and by the way everyone is talking, it looks like it may just stay at 1/48 scale.

keep the thoughts coming though...

[mchale]

how about a battle dammaged version

[airdave]

how about a battle dammaged version

that would be a "crashed" AC130...because thats about the only way you will stop one!

[mchale]

how about a shot up one

[SJPONeill]

how about a battle dammaged version

I find that normally happens naturally post-construction!!

[DEATH ANGELS]

Cant wate!. I think most would vote 72nd, I like the bigger ones for detail fat broken fingers and blindness. keep an origional set of lines. I would love to see a Marine refueler with a pair of F-8E's guzzling in 48th hanging from line in the man cave. Also the navy drone caster with a full load would be sweet
SEMPER FI

[doug]

how about keeping to the 1\33 scale of things.doug

[airdave]

1/33 would produce about a 48" wingspan
and make this way to big for the majority of interested modelers.

Not to mention the fact that I would have to start breaking up more parts to fit on the pages.
This means a lot more unnecessary seams and connections when building.

[richkat]

I have to say "I like big models" I say go with 1/33!! much easer do downsize than upsize! Oh wait 1/33 wasn't a choice, Ok, go with 1/48 it will mach my space fleet...Rich.....ps..Tedparks let me know about that big sub (1/44?) oh yea BIG!!

[Retired_for_now]

Dave,
I like them around a foot or smaller, but concur with the "easier to reduce than enlarge comments."

Re the base design. I recommend you go with a standard E model as your baseline (covers Vietnam to present time frame). Mold line is the same to get to the H or even J with a few changes to minor details mostly in the port main gear pod for the H. J is a stretch and engine/prop mods. Making a stretch variant can then be done just like the real thing - just add plugs fore and aft of the wing. Special Ops Talons are E and H models (variant nose on the H Talon II) and the gunships are all basically H models (U model is built on an H3 airframe).

There are lots of good references out there - let me know if you think I can help.

Yogi (I missed Ray, was down at Hurlburt in the early '90s)

[RyanShort]

I would suggest that an Entebbe Raid version might also be popular.

Ryan

[airdave]

Work on the redesign continues...

I have the cockpit and nose sections sorted out I think.
Some redesign on the windows, size and shape aswell as placement.
2 windows added that were missing.
A few tweaks to curves and part edges.
(The original Nobi kit does not use smooth curves on any curved part which really affects the fit and connection of parts...I am attempting to modifying all "curves" to be curves.)

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t6/outlawzairbrushcom/hobby%20links/AC130%20C130/ac130protobuild.jpg

redesigning the formers is a big factor...
not only to improve the fit but to compensate for changes I am making to the fuselage parts.
I have already altered the first three or four sections of the fuselage.

First section of fuselage fit pretty good, but the second part I completely redesigned.
Its now in two parts, like the first and third sections, but this allows me to even up both sides of the aircraft and keep the spine seam continuous.

Panel lines are a lost cause! lol ...so I am deleting what there and working from a couple of blueprint drawings,
I am attempting to create a new set of panel lines.

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t6/outlawzairbrushcom/hobby%20links/AC130%20C130/ac130protobuild01.jpg

as you can see, I am building as I redesign, so i can see what I'm doing.
Disregard all the marks and pencil lines!

In case anyone was wondering about the size of this thing, heres a good shot of the forward sections.

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t6/outlawzairbrushcom/hobby%20links/AC130%20C130/ac130protobuild02.jpg


more to come

[tedparkes]

looking good so far, keep it up...

[airdave]

another of our members is building a Fat Albert
and recently contacted me with some issues and troubles.

I am trying to answer some questions and provide some assistance with his build.

He also brought up a good point, something that I am trying to look into.
The idea that this model might be too short in the forward fuselage sections.
At least it appears to me, that if the fuselage is the correct scale length,
that the wings might be positioned a little too far forward.

Either of these problems is not difficult to remedy at this point.
I just need to use a good blueprint or side diagram of the aircraft
and some accurate scale measurements and see just how far off (if any) this model is.

I do have one nice side drawing of the plane,
if anyone else has a blueprint or proper scale drawing?
and/or some measurements?

[rickstef]

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/c-130-dimensions.gif

Hope this helps

[chiawatkom]

Sir, Sir, Can you make a repaint for my herk? This will help me and people here having a wonderful tiny Spectre and the Herk. Its size is just around 5-6 ince. Probably me, papermate, and Jan will assembly it.

I dream of the SE Spectre and the Fat albert, I do not want to interupt your precious time for doing this. But I would like to say "PLEASE"!! :D

[Rubenandres77]

Just found some information at: RAF Bulletin No. 3 (http://www.eol.ucar.edu/raf/Bulletins/bulletin3.html) about a C-130 used for scientific purposes.
But there's also a couple of probably useful images:

http://www.eol.ucar.edu/raf/pics/C-130_xsctn.gif

http://www.eol.ucar.edu/raf/pics/C-130_instr.gif

There's also a complete table of specifications in that site.



Great reading can be found here: http://tig.ludost.net/plane_c130.html
Nice images are at the bottom of that page, and here they are:

http://tig.ludost.net/pics/airdisk/USA/C130/Plans/C-130_18.JPG

http://tig.ludost.net/pics/airdisk/USA/C130/Plans/C-130_19.JPG

http://tig.ludost.net/pics/airdisk/USA/C130/Plans/C-130_38.JPG

http://tig.ludost.net/pics/airdisk/USA/C130/Plans/C-130_39.JPG

http://tig.ludost.net/pics/airdisk/USA/C130/Plans/C-130_40.JPG



I hope these are useful for your project :)


Edit:
A cross section of the fuselage, probably not at scale, but with measurements:

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a357/thezeke/C130/b65be387.png
from: http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/military/read.main/96080/

[airdave]

Sir, Sir, Can you make a repaint for my herk? This will help me and people here having a wonderful tiny Spectre and the Herk. Its size is just around 5-6 ince. Probably me, papermate, and Jan will assembly it.

I dream of the SE Spectre and the Fat albert, I do not want to interupt your precious time for doing this. But I would like to say "PLEASE"!! :D

Jack? you want me to colour this Herc model?
as a Spectre?

Spectre can be solid gray (dark or light)...but the Spectre has guns and left side fuselage modifications.
this model is just a C-130, not an AC-130

I will do something later...can't do it right now.
okay?

[Rubenandres77]

...
Spectre can be solid gray (dark or light)...but the Spectre has guns and left side fuselage modifications.
...

Here are some drawings of the AC-130 that can be useful as a reference to see the differences as compared to the classic C-130 profile:

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x41/gmat6441/002-1.jpg

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x41/gmat6441/004.jpg

[Werner Smuts]

Hi Airdave,

This is a BIG HERC. I love it. Thanks for doing this. If it's not a hassle, would you consider making a pure white version, without any paint scheme. Here at my work, we operate C130's services them etc. etc. and they are completely white. Would like to put it on my dest at work. Of course as big as possible ;-)

Thank you in advance.

[airdave]

An all White version?
Obviously, once the design is in place, I can start making various colour and paint scheme versions...and at that time, I will ask for more infor regarding a White one.


As I justed posted in the Blue Angels Fat Albert thread...
work is progressing slowly but steadily on the Herc redraw.

I'm at a point where I need to finish a couple of other projects and get some test builds out of the way.
I am trying to get my latest Diorama Accessory Kit finished in time for Xmas.
...was hoping to get the herc done too, but thats far from possible.

Got the majority of the basic fuselage done for the Herc.Many changes compared to Nobi's original model.
Pretty much redrawn each fuselage section, a couple with major alterations, all new panel lines and details.
Dealt with a forward fuselage length issue...moved the Landing gear blisters and Gear wells toward the rear (about 3-4 feet).

Still trying to figure out a Tail door setup...might be tricky because of the former arrangement in that area.

Last thing I did is start on a new vert. tail design.

I need to test build some things before going any further, so I better get the other projects out the way!

[airdave]

Okay...the C-130/AC-130 redesign is officially underway!

All talk up to this point, but I have begun actually test building some parts.

Just to recap, Nobi has graciously allowed me to use his old C-130 kit
(the one I used for the fat Albert repaint)
as the basis for a completely new design.

The goal being to iron out a number of issues with the original kit,
rework many parts and details,
and add some new design work.
Once the C-130 is sorted out, the first priority is to create the AC-130 Spectre Gunship.

.................................................. ...............................

I have about 70% of the fuselage redesigned, including cleaning up a few part edges, tweaking curves and lines, etc.

I have thrown out all the detail and panel lines and started fresh.
(thanks to all for the earlier blueprints and line drawings!)

There was an issue with fuselage length ahead of the main wings,,
which when measured, appeared to be very close to scale accurate.
The problem turned out to be in the side blisters (that house the main landing gear)..I ended up moving those about 3'-4' rearward.

I've designed all new wheel wells for the Landing Gear,
as well as complete new Landing Gear and Wheels.

Before I go any further, its time to test build the parts so far...

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t6/outlawzairbrushcom/hobby%20links/AC130%20C130/C130whitebuild001.jpg

All nose parts went together as expected.
I am building uncoloured, and I will mark necessary adjustments as I go.

Here you can see part of the new Wheel Well in place.
The new gear designs should look good in there!

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t6/outlawzairbrushcom/hobby%20links/AC130%20C130/C130whitebuild002.jpg


Heres the front fuselage sections assembled, without main formers...
still working out a design for an intermediate former (that fits above the Wheel Well box)
but you can see there isn't much tweaking necessary with panel lines so far.

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t6/outlawzairbrushcom/hobby%20links/AC130%20C130/C130whitebuild004.jpg

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t6/outlawzairbrushcom/hobby%20links/AC130%20C130/C130whitebuild003.jpg

[airdave]

...some wonderful headway on the Herc this weekend!

just about everything fell into place reall well, all parts fitted perfectly or acceptably,
got a short list of tweaks and adjustments,
and I think I am ready to move on the Tail sections.

Heres a recap of what I got done:

Redesign of the "new" forward Former went great.
My first "redesign" fitted perfectly with only the necessary adjustments to the shape and size of the cutout for the Wheel Well.

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t6/outlawzairbrushcom/hobby%20links/AC130%20C130/C130whitebuild005.jpg

I am implementing a complete new part numbering system, at the moment this new former is "B", but that might change.

While I waited for some glue to dry, and since I have the new Wheel Well in place,
I decided to test build the new front Gear assembly.
Following pic shows the necessary printed parts plus a little build diagram.

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t6/outlawzairbrushcom/hobby%20links/AC130%20C130/C130whitebuild006.jpg

One of my goals is to create an assembly that can be fitted with no other support.
in other words, I don't like the idea of wire supports sticking through little holes...
so my new assembly mounts on a wide front brace and a rear support (sort of a tripod effect).

Heres the assembly with some Mustang P-51 wheels I pulled off another model. The actual C-130 wheels will be a little shorter and fatter.

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t6/outlawzairbrushcom/hobby%20links/AC130%20C130/C130whitebuild007.jpg

...all looks okay and the fit in the wheel well is as intended.

I'm gonna make a few small adjustments to the design but its pretty much what I had in mind.
Only real question is the overall ride height of the plane.
I've done a lot of measurements to try to get front and main gear to the correct height
and to get the fusleage to sit at the proper angle and ride height,
but I won't know for sure until I get all the gear in place.

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t6/outlawzairbrushcom/hobby%20links/AC130%20C130/C130whitebuild008.jpg


All thats left is to add three more sections of fuselage...
which brings mean to the rear door/tail sections.

I'm also at the point where I am cutting out the openings for the main gear wells.

I remembered from my last C-130 build, that I questioned whether there should be a second former in the area of the main Gear wells.
As it stands, Nobi's design has one central former where you fit the wheel well boxes.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/674/FA_Build_19.jpg
I think two formers in that opening is the better way to allow for a flat and secure attachment of the new Gear design and Wheel Wells.

So, I have doubled the applicable former "F" and added a pair of spacing braces.
Its pretty simple to attach the two braces, glue them to the existing former and then drop in the second former.

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t6/outlawzairbrushcom/hobby%20links/AC130%20C130/C130whitebuild009.jpg

Once the openings are cut for the Main Gear wells, there are two visible former cutouts ready to receive the new wheel well boxes.

The wheel well boxes now have two attachment points.
Once I get the boxes printed and assembled I'll know for sure if this is all good.

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t6/outlawzairbrushcom/hobby%20links/AC130%20C130/C130whitebuild010.jpg

And thats it...for now...

I've got a short list of tweaks and minor adjustments to deal with
and then its on to designing the Tail sections.

But before that, I think I will check out the fit of the side fuselage blisters.
Stay tuned!

[Retired_for_now]

Lotta work going on here - looking good!

BTW, we usually called the "blisters" the wheel well sponsons when we didn't just call them the main gear. Neat work inside the nose wheel well - just how much detail do you want? There's a couple of electronic components in there and a window on the aft bulkhead (so you can crawl down after takeoff, look inside, and see that you forgot to pull the gear pin when the nose gear refuses to retract ...). I'll see if I still have a -1 laying around; tons of diagrams and specs in there.

Yogi

[airdave]

Lotta work going on here - looking good!
BTW, we usually called the "blisters" the wheel well sponsons when we didn't just call them the main gear. Neat work inside the nose wheel well - just how much detail do you want? There's a couple of electronic components in there and a window on the aft bulkhead (so you can crawl down after takeoff, look inside, and see that you forgot to pull the gear pin when the nose gear refuses to retract ...). I'll see if I still have a -1 laying around; tons of diagrams and specs in there.
Yogi

Thanks Yogi

"sponsons" ? excellent...thats what I will try to call them!

only reason I started calling them "blisters" was because I think I used to call them "bulges"
and then another modeler referred to them as "blisters"...and that sounded much better! lol

I used a couple of C-130 photos for reference when designing the new gear
and detailing the wheel well.

But I do admit...its not technically accurate, I always take a lot of artistic license to suit the model building method.
And in this case because the gear and wheel wells are so well hidden, I figured I could let the technical accuracy slide a lot.

Please don't let that stop you (or anyone) from sending me or posting photos and data.
Its all a wonderful learning experience for me!

[Ashrunner]

Not sure you're familiar with this site, AirDave, but there is some interesting material on the Herc here.

C130 Pilot Gouge Downloads - Study Guides & Notes (http://www.baseops.net/c130pilotgouge.html)

[airdave]

Not sure you're familiar with this site, AirDave, but there is some interesting material on the Herc here.

C130 Pilot Gouge Downloads - Study Guides & Notes (http://www.baseops.net/c130pilotgouge.html)

I'll have a look see! thanks Lauren!

[airdave]

getting a little sidetracked with details now! lol...

tweaked the front Gear support and decided to print out the new parts and check everything.
All is good...
and then I got curious about the Gear door, and how it will attach.

So I designed a bracket setup and tested it.
yes, it does hang down a little too low in this picture...I have already adjusted the position of the brackets and door (in the kit).

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t6/outlawzairbrushcom/hobby%20links/AC130%20C130/C130whitebuild011.jpg

only thing I have to check now is the position of the front wheels.
I notice in a couple of C-130 photos, that the front wheels sit a little further ahead than I have them.
I may have to adjust the gear support to move them forward.
Once I make up some wheels, I can check the clearance.
..............................

and...before I move on to the Tail and aft sections of the fuselage,
I figured it was a good idea to check out the fit of the new Main Gear Wells.
And then I can sort out the "sponson" assembly.

so, heres the new main gear assemblies...
I know its not technically accurate, but I think its a vast improvement.
I am trying to strike a balance between more accurate detail
and build simplicity.
And once it gets hidden up inside the wheel wells, behind the doors and the wheels...you won't be able to see much anyway! lol

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t6/outlawzairbrushcom/hobby%20links/AC130%20C130/C130whitebuild012b.jpg

Obviously no Wheels/Tires in place yet, all you can see is the open brake drums.
But I have got the wheels spaced out properly now (I think)

I have deliberately left the main supports a little tall.
Once I get all wheels/tires made and installed, I can check the actual ride height and angle of the fuselage and then shorten the main supports to the desired length.

So...next is to attach the sponson assembly over all this.
Hopefully all goes well.

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t6/outlawzairbrushcom/hobby%20links/AC130%20C130/C130whitebuild012.jpg

[Retired_for_now]

Nice interpretation. Don't recall a link between the fore-aft main gear struts. Other than that looks nice - BTW the brakes are a stack of disks, but your depiction works for that as well.
Yogi

[Tapcho]

The link is there allright.

[airdave]

I saw what I thought were Brake drums in one photo.
Thanks Yogi, for telling me that they are Discs.
I can simply alter the detail lines to resemble discs instead of drums.

I assume the link between the two upright Cylinders is to connect and stabilize the two units?

A lack of reference photos (of the main landing gear) was a problem.

Thats the big reason for some modeling and artistic interpretation.

Then I found a diecast model part, for the landing gear, and it answered some of the visual questions.

[BigGiraffe]

I really like how you're redesigning the wheelwells and landing gear! Your new former looks real good, too. This model will be even better when you're all done.
Kurt

[Retired_for_now]

Tapcho, I'll take your word on the link. Never did stick my head between the wheels and I'm too lazy to go back to the airpark and crawl under the dang thing again (unless someone asks really nicely, and it stays warm down here, and it doesn't rain, and the wasps have all frozen out for the year, ...).
Yogi

[DEATH ANGELS]

I posted earlier how much I like the Spectors especally the later versions with the big guns. Thank you for taking on the job of generating the spook. Another stunning Hurc is the Navy DC-130. The photo is all Ted Taylor. He is at Ted's Modelworks, beautiful even if it is from the dark side. Would love to have the five birds in card.

[BigGiraffe]

Happy Thanksgiving!

I figured out what looks strange on that photo of diecast landing gear: The C-130 does not have "scissors" on the main gear struts. That pole strut running between the forward and aft main struts does the job.

Best regards,
Kurt

[airdave]

Thanks guys for all the input.

The "Spectre" was obviously my motivation for starting this project,
but it will be cool to have a base model that I can "repaint" into various versions.

I'm not an aircraft expert and definitely not a Herc expert!
I learn as I go, and I am doing my best to simulate things in a visually accurate way.
...and I do appreciate related input.

Obviously there are so many versions of the Herc, and many more subtle and distinct variants.
Since I haven't focused on one particular model or variant of the Herc,
and because Nobi's original model was somewhat generic in its design,
I am also ending up with more of a generic design that probably has elements of more than one C-130 aircraft.

I'll do my best to keep anything really radical out of the design, but feel free
to point out any design elements that you think do not fit or should be altered.

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t6/outlawzairbrushcom/hobby%20links/AC130%20C130/C130whitebuild014.jpg


as I posted in Giraffes thread last night, I fitted some wheels to the plane
and dry fitted the sponson assembly.

First step was to check out the gear ride height, which as you can see, is much better than I had anticipated.
I figured I would make the main gear a little longer than necessary
ad then cut it down to get the correct ride height.
I never thought i would be this close!

Looks like I will be removing only a couple of millimetres.
.....

Sponson part fits okay...its just held on with some clear tape at the moment.
I needed to check its position and mark out various panel lines and trim spots.
Now I will remove the part and cut it back into its separate components
for scanning and to transfer the handdrawn reference marks.

more to come

[BigGiraffe]

Goodness, those landing gear look GOOD! Fabulous! The good news is that all of the Herc variants use the same landing gear design. Well, except for the ski birds.

How did you do those wheels? I like!

Take care,
Kurt

[airdave]

I wasn't gonna advertise the wheels, in case i got dubbed a "cheater"! lol

I was in Michaels Craft store yesterday and found packets of wooden wheels.
Various sizes - I bought about four packs for about $2 each
Two of the sizes turned out to be very close to the sizes needed for this model.

So I painted the wheels with a black (Dollar store) craft paint.
Dries super fast and has a nice almost flat, slightly grayish tone.
For the Main wheels I cut out the printed Tire/Wheel parts
and then I trimmed off almost almost the black tire leaving only the Wheel Rim with a bead of black surround,
and then I glued the inner and outer parts to the wooden wheel.

(Unfortunately I wasn't paying attention to the shadow/highlights in the artwork
and some wheels are not positioned correctly)

For the front wheels, I followed the same method, however I glued the full Tire/Wheel parts to the sides of each wooden wheel
...to make the wheel a little thicker. They are still a little thin in my opinion.

But I might just use these for my "good" build.
...really saves cutting out tons of little discs! lol

Only thing I might do is flatten the bottom side of each tire.
Just sand out a little flat section so the tire sits a little squatter, kinda like how a real tire bulges out at the bottom from the weight.
Who knows, I might even add a little putty and create the sidewall bulges?

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t6/outlawzairbrushcom/hobby%20links/AC130%20C130/C130whitebuild015b.jpg

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t6/outlawzairbrushcom/hobby%20links/AC130%20C130/C130whitebuild015.jpg

[Ron40]

Looking real good Dave. As for the wheels I'll take your
hint and check at my local Michaels for some that will
work on this model as well as others....Ron

[airdave]

Looking real good Dave. As for the wheels I'll take your
hint and check at my local Michaels for some that will
work on this model as well as others....Ron

yeah, this is what I got from Michaels
(actually this is what I have left from 4 packages)

I used Medium Wheels for the main gear (about 23mm)
and Small Wheels for the front (about 18mm)

and as I said, the front wheels are a little too thin for this plane,
but aren't too bad if you add the card outer layers.

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t6/outlawzairbrushcom/hobby%20links/woodenwheels.jpg

[BigGiraffe]

This is cool! I'm not at all looking forward to cutting out dozens of cardboard disks and am not at all opposed to getting help in the form of pre-made wheels. The idea of adding a disk to each side to shore up the overall thickness is quite good.

Did you have a problem with that fuselage section #14 (the very end section on your photo from your 09:17 post this morning) being too small a circumference to fit #13? I'm not sure whether I printed mine wrong or cut too much off the end (we're talking 0.5 - 0.75 mm, here). I added some to the very bottom and it fits up front, but now #15 is a bit snug. This just seemed odd after all of those nose pieces fit so nicely.

Take care,
Kurt

[airdave]

I may get mixed up on the part numbers, since I have thrown them all away...
(I will number everything when I am done)
but the second to last fuselage section (in my photos above) needed to have a small adjustment.
I removed about .5mm from the top and bottom seams where it meets the last section.
So a total of about 1mm removed from the circumference.

If you are saying your last section is small, then that correlates to what I am saying.

But the adjustment I made will not affect the next (#15?) part.

Don't be surprised with anything here...Nobi's kit is a pretty good kit, designed for the more novice builder I think, but its far from being a "well fitting kit".
I have built the nose 4 times so far and each time it goes a little bit different, so be thankful yours went smooth!

[sadkingbilly]

Been reading here for a while, found this tread and felt I needed to register to say thanks for the C-130 images a few pages back. I'm building one myself (not from paper) and really needed some detail drawings which are hard to find. I like working with paper but I hardly get anything besides pepakura-prints to do - not enough time.

Picture of my work so far:
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/9916/c130.jpg (http://img258.imageshack.us/i/c130.jpg/)

greetings from the Netherlands,
Alwin

[airdave]

after the foam structure is completed, you can coat it with paper
and then maybe we will give you permission to hang around! lol

...................................

one day soon, I will be back on this project.
Just want to get the Diorama Kits and the Calendar project out of the way.
...oh and one other hush hush project.

[chiawatkom]

Nice to hear that Dave, I also just finish my C-130 H 30th anniversary of the Hercules fleet in Thailand. Soon will be posted gentleman!!

[sadkingbilly]

Actually, at first I wanted to cover it with paper (the kind you use to blow your nose in, spray a little wood glue on it and it gets rock hard) but was adviced not to do that since it will ruin the flight characteristics. So only paint for now.

Would be fun though to build it (a lot, like 13" wingspan) smaller from paper to sit on my desk for all those none-flying days...

Did I miss the plans or are they commercially available?

[airdave]

AC-130 UPDATE!

no...don't get all excited (LOL) I'm not really back at this thing yet.
But I am thinking about it, and tinkering with a couple of ideas.

I would like an opinion on a model part design, before I go any further...

Doing a little bit of reading, about the early Gunships (VietNam era probably)
and deciding what exterior features I want to include on the AC-130.

I like the early style side Radome...
and was fascinated by the AN/ASD-5 "Black Crow" Sensor carried inside....
a device that would pick up the electronic "noise" of a spark crossing the gap on a vehicle spark plug.
Apparently it could sense as far away as the horizon from an inflight aircraft.
A good operator could also tell if the vehicles were new or old, and if
they were moving or idling, simply based on the quality of the signal.

anyway...
I am working out the dome part of the radome.
I really don't like the petal approach.
Too many seams for my taste, and a tricky thing to form I think.
I came across another method of creating the dome with three parts.
Not a perfect dome, but I think a cleaner look.
(sorry, my example has some marker colouring on the paper,
so its not the cleanest look...but it should look better when properly coloured and printed)

What do you think?
Which "dome" design works for you?
or which would you prefer?

[willygoat]

I think the petal might be able to come closer to the original curvature, but I know I'd much rather build with rings and then tweak them into proper form.

[airdave]

The HERC is back on the worktable!! YAY!!

With the A-10 finished,
and the third Diorama Accessories Kit,
and the BiCentennial F-15,
and the C-47,
and the Bauer F-16Flyer,
and...
lol
I can now devote a little bit of time to the Hercules again.

Don't misunderstand...I still have other projects on the go...
so this could stop as quickly as it restarted! LOL

Anyway...I followed up on earlier efforts to redesign the Wheel Well housings.

A number of adjustments were made to the wheel wells themselves:
shortened, narrowed, the gear lengthened slightly, new doors...
and a new design to the skin assembly that creates the wheel well blisters.

test fitted it last night and it looks "marvey"!!

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t6/outlawzairbrushcom/hobby%20links/AC130%20C130/C130whitebuild016.jpg

sorry about the gray colouring (on the "white build"), I printed the parts before I realized I should have removed the colouring.

I am building Model pages as I go, so the parts are all coloured gray for the final Herc.
Obviously I am test building in white so I can make adjustments and marks right on the model.
The AC-130 will be the first design, once the basic Herc is sorted out,
and it will be a much darker gray.

Anyway, as I said the ride height is better, the doors fit now,
and the blisters look a lot better.
You can see at the front edge, how I added some extra material for gluing to the fuselage,
but I am using some graphic shading to fool the eye and create the forward bulges.

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t6/outlawzairbrushcom/hobby%20links/AC130%20C130/C130whitebuild017.jpg


I am also adding some gluing strips/tabs for the upper edges of the blister parts (where they attach to the fuselage).
Edge gluing is easy enough, but potentially messy (I found)...
so I will include some optional glue strips for that area.

..........................

I am working on a new Tail Rudder right now.
I have redesigned the vert tail completely and it will include a separate rudder part.
Also adding more substantial formers.

just got to figure the best method of attachement to the fuselage.

............................

also been looking at the idea of adding rear doors,
or some sort of opening doors.

Unfortunately this would require a significant change to the internals.
The current formers won't allow for a cutout or adding of an open door setup.

The other problem is the fact that it will be a very large opening into the fuselage,
so the entire inside of the fuselage becomes visible.
Which means a complete redesign all the way forward to the cockpit...

and a complete interior!

Not gonna happen.

I am however looking at a way of "faking" a rear open door.
The same way many wheel wells are faked.
I could include a graphic that you would fit into the spot where the door opening would be.
And then a lower door assembly that attaches to the fuselage.
(The upper door swings inwards, so it would have to be part of the
graphic simulation.)

Its not a full interior, but it might be a good option to simulate opening rear doors.
More updates when I get to the designing stage!

[Retired_for_now]

Alternative for an open cargo door & ramp would be to put in a fuselage bulkhead just forward of the ramp hinge (aft of the paratroop doors) or just forward of the paratroop doors if you open them as well.
Graphic on the bulkhead would be a shot of the cargo bay - empty or filled with whatever.
You'd still end up with cut formers in way of the ramp and door, though with the door open (yep, pulls up) you'd still have a pretty strong structural box at the aft end. With the ramp down, you'd expose a lot of random structure, wiring, storage boxes (chains & devices), ductwork, and the urinal/platform along the sides.
So ... I think I concur with you. Keep it closed up.
Yogi (maybe ... or maybe not)

[airdave]

haha the urinal platforms might be fun?!

[cardist]

Hi Dave ,
Have just caught up with this thread. Looks absolutely superb. Many thanks for sharing your wonderful efforts.
Happy modelling
Bernie

[airdave]

thanks bernie


Usually I like to sit down and watch some TV in the evenings
and work on assemblies.
But I didn't get Tail parts sorted out yet,
so I didn't have anything to assemble last night.

I came up with something!....

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t6/outlawzairbrushcom/hobby%20links/AC130%20C130/C130whitebuild018.jpg


I did a test fit of my Radome parts against the fuselage.
I like it!

Although it might have been a hasty decision....since I don't have all the parts templated.
I forgot about that step!
LOL I might have to slice this all off again to trace/scan the individual parts!

Oh well, it fits.

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t6/outlawzairbrushcom/hobby%20links/AC130%20C130/C130whitebuild019.jpg

[Texman]

It does fit nicely. It may just be the perspective, but compared to this picture, the radome looks out of scale to the rest of the aircraft.

Lockheed AC-130 Spectre Gunship: nose view (http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0PDoX4WgXtNC2MATl.jzbkF/SIG=12mopbjvu/EXP=1299968406/**http%3a//www.historyofwar.org/Pictures/pictures_lockheed_ac130c.html)

Still looking good though!

[airdave]

It does fit nicely. It may just be the perspective, but compared to this picture, the radome looks out of scale to the rest of the aircraft.

yes, that was one of the reasons to fitting it to the fuselage.

I knew all along it was a little large (sticks out a little too far aswell)
just didn't know how much.

...but I should have acknowledged that I needed to make adjustments.

I just got so excited when it actually fit the fuselage! LOL

It has to come off anyway, since I only have the dome and main tube parts.
The extension plate, brackets and template for the fuselage curve I did not record yet.

[Texman]

That's why it's just a draft build! I too get excited when the least expected part fits perfect the first time.

[airdave]

Check it out! (Ray)

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t6/outlawzairbrushcom/hobby%20links/AC130%20C130/C130whitebuild022.jpg

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t6/outlawzairbrushcom/hobby%20links/AC130%20C130/C130whitebuild021.jpg

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t6/outlawzairbrushcom/hobby%20links/AC130%20C130/C130whitebuild020.jpg

and the "dome" is staying in this style.
I have thrown out the petal style assembly.

Not sure about the base ring for the Radome.
The actual bird as a flanged, bottom that blends into the fuselage.
At this scale, I can't recreate that...but I tried a flat ring baseplate
that kinda simulates the step up into the dome extension.

yes? no?

.................................................

Got all the tail fuselage parts redrawn, redesigned and I will be attempting a test build today or tomorrow.
All new panel lines show of the rear doors much better.

Currently creating an entirely new vert Tail.

Threw out Nobi's original design completely.
Started fresh, redrawing from a Hercules schematic.
Can't be any worse...hopefully a lot better.

[Please note...the original hercules model was a very old Nobi design. One of his earliest.
And although it builds up to a respectable model, it isn't without its flaws.
Its outdated and definitely in need of many improvements.
For me, its a good starting point for a new design.
And my comments about improving on the design are never meant as insults to Nobi or his models.
I apologize for the times when I do seem to be attacking his design.]

[Texman]

I'd say that's pretty darned respectable Dave. Go with it!

[airdave]

Well, its been a two or three weeks since my last update...
but I have been working away on the Herc, every chance I get.

Actually I have been struggling somewhat with the rear fuselage.
I made a few changes and then set about to totally redesign the Tail Wings.
A few different attempts resulted in a plan...

a plan that wasn't gonna work with the existing fuselage.
And since I still wasn't satisfied with the shape of the rear sections
I decided to throw the whole thing in the garbage and start again!
lol

I think I finally got it all sorted out...
enough to move on to the Main Wings anyway.

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t6/outlawzairbrushcom/hobby%20links/AC130%20C130/C130whitebuild023.jpg

Now that she has a tail on her, I had to cut the nose off
and add a bunch of weight!
I didn't think about how tail heavy the model would be!

I have Radomes done (three of them),
two 40mm Side M2A1 cannons done,
working on two 20mm Vulcan Gatling Guns
and a pair of 7.62mmm Mini Guns.

Once I sort out the Main Wings, I will be able to move on to an actual colour test build of the AC130 Gunship.
And hopefully sort out the final glitches and finish this kit.

[airdave]

One of the things I definitely did not like about Nobi's original Hercules kit
was the wing roots and how they mounted to the fuselage.

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t6/outlawzairbrushcom/hobby%20links/C-130final011.jpg

On a real Herc, the wings appear to be attached across the top of the fuselage and are heavily contoured into the fuselage.
Radical fairings blend the wings nicely and this is missing from this model.

I resepct the fact that wing fairings are a tricky spot on any paper model
and the Hercules has got to be one of the most complicated!

but...I'm a glutton for punishment...I just had to redesign all of this!

I've got a whole new wing support system designed, new wings themselves, top fairing, etc...

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t6/outlawzairbrushcom/hobby%20links/AC130%20C130/C130whitebuild024.jpg

I'm tweaking the shape a bit, but i like what I have so far.

I have also simplified the main spar attachment by opening the slot across the top of the fuselage.
Instead of cutting two slots for the main cross spar, and sliding it through,
you can assembly the entire wing and spars, and drop the whole thing in from the top.

The trickiest part is working out the shape of the lower fairings.
The Herc wings have a very aggressive curved blend into the fuselage.
Some pretty complicated shapes to try to do in paper!

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t6/outlawzairbrushcom/hobby%20links/AC130%20C130/C130whitebuild025.jpg

As you can see, I have a simple underside fairing that will require a little hand shaping.
The rear section is pretty straightforward...

but the front is presenting a bigger problem.
I found that I couldn't contort the leading edge of the wing to fit the slope downwards
and at the same time fit the curve of the fuselage.

So, my solution will be will be an add-on part at the leading edge of the wings.
I just have to try to work out all the curves into the lower fairing part.

...if anyone has any suggestions, I am open to ideas?

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t6/outlawzairbrushcom/hobby%20links/AC130%20C130/C130whitebuild026.jpg

[Nh3ave2009]

Fantastic Dave!! you always impress me!

[airdave]

Fantastic Dave!! you always impress me!

thanks....lol I wasn't sure anyone was still paying attention!

I think I have the fairing sorted out...
as well as the blend part for the front of the wings.
This is still a very sloppy prototype (pictured)...
but I think you get the idea.
The new part will have the proper panel lines, not my squiggly pen marks!

The center fairing part (in this picture) is actually triple thickness
and will actually fit very flush..

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t6/outlawzairbrushcom/hobby%20links/AC130%20C130/C130whitebuild027.jpg

Underside fairing goes on a lot easier...
lines up simply at the back, glue it in place there,
then shape a concave into it and push it up to meet the wing and fuselage.

Only thing I can't sort out is an actual length for the trailing fairing part to meet up with the front part.
Every time I fit it and massage it into shape, it comes out slightly different length.
This is why I dropped the idea of one piece.

For now, I am leaving it with a small amount of overlapping material.
The builder can choose to just overlap and glue, or trim once the part is in place.

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t6/outlawzairbrushcom/hobby%20links/AC130%20C130/C130whitebuild028.jpg

That enough for me with this area...
I am now going to finish off one wing, so I can tackle the Engines.

Hopefully I haven't altered the wings too much, so I don't have to throw out
the original engine design completely.
I have a few ideas for redesign, including an opening engine inspection panel.

And of course, I already have the beginnings of a new Prop hub and blade design.

[Retired_for_now]

Sounds like a reasonable solution on the wing root fairings. Trying to remember the last time I was at the depot (airplane dropoff/pickup). Pretty sure the center wing is one piece, just don't remember the details of the fairing. I'll see if I can find something that shows it clearly (likely a refueling picture from the tanker ...)
Yogi

[Retired_for_now]

Quick Google image search on <AC-130 gunship> gets lots of hits.
Head on (fairing front) here: Transportplan (http://www.flygplan.info/transport.htm)
Underwing shot (A-model but the wing root fairing hasn't changed) here: Mary Esther, FL : AC-130 Gunship, Hurlburt Field Airpark photo, picture, image (Florida) at city-data.com (http://www.city-data.com/picfilesc/picc22215.php)

As always, let me know if you need pix. Can't shoot the U-model on the flight line of course (hate the taste of concrete) but the A-model in the airpark is fully accessible/touchable. I'll be out to Hurlburt next Tuesday - let me know specifically what you need.

Yogi

[airdave]

Thanks Yogi...the A model is what I am attempting to simulate.

Actually considering "First Lady" or Azrael" for the colour and markings.
I was going to do a Black/Camo...but maybe as a second offering.

That underwing shot is a nice view...
I probably already have every internet image and a few more,
but there aren't as many underwing shots that show the wing blend.

I think I will try to carry over some panel lines,
but I am scared of creating too many things that can fall out of alignment during assembly.

Not sure what photos I would ask for Yogi...any detail shots are handy.
I'm at the point now where I am fiddling with normal panel lines and those kinds of details.
I am also trying to design the armaments and all the ports for those.
Might be a few shots there.

Many of these A models had three bladed props in the beginning
and changed to 4 bladed later in their careers.
Is there a preference (when it comes to the model)?

[Retired_for_now]

We lost the first lady (first production C-130 in fact) to the museum at Wright-Patt, but both Eglin and Hurlburt have AC-As on display. A-models had three-bladed props until sometime in the mid/late 1970s when they got the four-bladed ones like the rest of the Herk fleet. Three-bladed props (along with the armament array) will make it more distinctive as an A-model.

Did I give you a link to the AF History Office? They have an entire book on the development of fixed-wing gunships.

Yogi

[airdave]

Being an artist and fan of Nose art, I was hoping for something special
but to be honest, the Spooky nose arts are not that well done.
I just mean, that there really isn't one that stands above the rest
as far as the noseart goes, so that isn't a deciding factor for me anymore.

I like the idea of considering the first Gunships and the A-model is best represented
in the model I am creating.
First Lady is an obvious front runner because of the fact that she was the first Gunship.

I think you are right...the three bladed prop would be more historically significant.
(Even though the four blade looks so impressive)

I'm having a difficult time settling on a dark gray for the first model.
Over the years they must have faded quite a bit, because recent photos seem to show a much lighter gray than I had imagined.
In fact, when looking at older photos, the Gunships look extremely dark.
Maybe around 70% Black?

...................

I got one wing assembled tonight...a very quick and dirty fit.
But thats okay, its just for the purpose of measuring the wing spars and ribs
(I am calculating where to move and add ribs)

...and to provide me with a place to fit some engines.

Wing went on nicely, no surprises.
Just a few panel line tweaks, and so forth.

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t6/outlawzairbrushcom/hobby%20links/AC130%20C130/C130whitebuild029.jpg

I also got a chance to try out my new wing tips.
The original Nobi design was a little odd and just didn't seem to match anything in photos.
But I failed at trying to design a new set of wing tips.

In the end, I just modified the lines and markings, cleaned up the curves and shape
and added one small newly designed part (to the trailing edge)
and voila!...it now looks (almost) like a Herc wingtip!
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t6/outlawzairbrushcom/hobby%20links/AC130%20C130/C130whitebuild030.jpg

Already cleaned up the left engine and will do a test build tomorrow.
First thing is just to get a better understanding of the assembly method
(which always helps when forced to design or redesign parts)
and check out the nacelle fit to the wing.

No point in designing an entire engine, if it doesn't fit the wing profile!

..........................

odd thing (or funny?)...
I have rotating desktop images, from a huge file...
and as I was reading Yogi's last post and preparing to make this post,
I closed down my email program and lo and behold, look what appeared on my desktop!
just a funny coincidence I guess?...but ...."spooky" none the less!

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t6/outlawzairbrushcom/hobby%20links/AC130%20C130/P4075632.jpg

[airdave]

Did I give you a link to the AF History Office? They have an entire book on the development of fixed-wing gunships.
Yogi

I've heard this phrase before, and it always makes me laugh.

"Fixed wing aircraft"

Whenever I fly, I often comment...
"I'm glad they fixed the wings on this one. I'm not partial to the broken ones!"

[Texman]

I've heard this phrase before, and it always makes me laugh.

"Fixed wing aircraft"

Whenever I fly, I often comment...
"I'm glad they fixed the wings on this one. I'm not partial to the broken ones!"

Great. Now I gotta clean the beer off the monitor. CinC house gonna love that. Thanks Dave.

[airdave]

wow, my first engine test went pretty darn good!

I did a straightforward redraw of Nobi's original engine ...

(left outboard only...thanks to Kurt "big giraffe" for helping determine the positions, since they aren't properly designated in the original instructions!)

-new vector parts
-cleaned up all the lines and curves
-removed all existing panel lines and details
-working from a couple of photos I added all new panel lines
-made a few small design changes to the lower engine air intake part
including overall shape and fit, shaded colouring for exposed interior parts
and a layer insert to thicken the walls of the intake.
-added a 3D graphic exhaust to the rear of the engine
-added a lower Oil Cooler intake/housing part
-and a newly designed prop hub

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t6/outlawzairbrushcom/hobby%20links/AC130%20C130/C130whitebuild031.jpg

not all is right, and I still have a number of tweaks and adjustments to make,
but I didn't expect it to work this well from the start.
Everything just kinda fell into place with..I guess it works that way sometimes.

Best of all, it seems to fit the Wing shape too!

Once this engine is tweaked, its only a case of mirroring the engine for the right side.
And I am hoping that all the design elements will transfer easily to the Inboard engines
(which are a little different in shape and size)

[Retired_for_now]

Nice! Lots of work there ... however. Most shots of the Herk are ortho, seldom get one straight from the side. The engine housing doesn't taper quite that much at the aft end. Here's a shot from a mx hangar at Pope:

85398

For engine references try a Google image search on T-56 (with whatever additional terms you need to cut down the chaff).

Yogi

BTW - not sure you even need to mirror the engines. I don't recall them as having a port/starboard side difference. Take off bad engine, bring out good one, hang it on the mounts - same engine goes on any of the mounts.

[airdave]

The engine housing doesn't taper quite that much at the aft end.


not sure i get it...I have a shot of the whole nacelle, and it does seem to taper up to the wing in the same manner.
I'll see if i can post something.


maybe when I see some new photos from you, I'll have a better understanding?


not sure you even need to mirror the engines. I don't recall them as having a port/starboard side difference.yeah, because the wings get thinner as you move away from the fuselage
and taper on the horizontal
the outboard engine has a slight angle to its mounting surface
and is slightly askew to keep the engine pointing forward.

The inboard engines might not have any mirror issue though.

[Retired_for_now]

Ah, I see. The engine itself doesn't actually taper that much, but the cover over the tailpipe is attached to the wing and is unique. The pic I posted is the engine - everything aft of that remains on the wing.
Same point on the left/right differences. The engines are identical but from the mounts aft it obviously does vary. I'll see what I can get for pix.
Yogi

Clarification: the very dark panel line on the side/bottom of your engine indicates the access doors that cover the actual tailpipe. Ahead of those doors the engine is roughly rectangular in profile with a little bellying out on the bottom. So, probably just started the taper too soon on the part.

[airdave]

Now I see what you are getting at
...but this is a newer or different engine housing?
it seems to have an enlarged area just behind the Oil Cooler panel.

The shape is a little different from the engine(s) I have been working from.

Here are the four best pics I have,
and this is what I have been using for reference so far.

[Retired_for_now]

Yah, problem is the optical geometry. I have a devil of a time drawing from pictures - always correcting for perspective. Most shots are angled from the nose and emphasize what (if any) taper there is.
I'll see if I can get a straight side shot of the A-model engines at Hurlburt. You might look at some of the drawings posted earlier in the thread for a template too. Not sure how accurate they are, but seem reasonable.
I've never noticed a difference in the engine nacelles, whether -5, -7, or -15s on the various Herk models. I'd go with your references.
Yogi

[airdave]

*after a lot of thought and perusing some Gunship sites,
I have decided that I really like "First Lady" as my first gunship paint scheme.

http://www.spectre-association.org/images/acphotos/129FirstLady/KeepingHerFit/P1110721.jpg

The AC-130A "First Lady" as she appears now. is dressed in the later Gunship Grey colour, with "First Lady" noseart.

However...the "First Lady" parked now at Eglin Air Force Base Armament Museum in Florida
is not as she looked as a Gunship.

yes, "First Lady" was the first production C-130, accepted by the USAF, in 1953.
She wasn't converted to AC-130 Gunship until 1968,
and was the seventh, and last, of the original C-130As to be converted to Gunships.

Serving in VietNam. she was painted as the original Gunships in Black
with upper earth colours Camo.

And...the plane was named "The Arbitrator"

http://www.spectre-association.org/images/acphotos/129FirstLady/16sosac13043.jpg

What I need to know is...
is there a preference of Paint Scheme/Version.
it seems more obvious to me to release "The Arbitrator" in VietNam era camo.

or do we prefer the redressed "First Lady" in honour of the Squadron and Gunships in general?

or, do I produce both?

I'm just saying, if one of these versions is of no interest to anyone, then why bother working on it...when I can put the time into another Herc version.

feedback on this is much appreciated.

[Texman]

I say Arbitrator. Not a real big fan of gray.

[Retired_for_now]

Sorry Dave, got all the way to the gate yesterday before I "remembered" I forgot the **** camera.
So, a few shots from this morning of generic C-130E models from the Naval Aviation Museum (taking meeting ...).

The actual engine is forward of the faired portion that houses the tailpipe. The entire engine and fairing are identical for all four engines - however. The entire package is set deeper in the wing leading edge on the inboards (or further out on the outboards) to keep the props in the same plane while the wing begins a slight taper. You can see the seam where the engine meets the aft tailpipe fairing and how it relates to the leading edge.

85780

85781

85782

85783

And if you pick your day right you can watch practice while waiting for the meeting to start...

85784

Yogi

Will get out to Herbie shortly and get you the A-model (black) gunship shots. Yes, the one in the airpark is glossy - mx decision (since their troops take care of these on a volunteer basis) based on paint cost and ease of cleaning (seagulls & etc.).

85795

85796

[airdave]

First Gunships were Glossy Black.

Actually, first Gunships were South Asian Camoflage
and the sides, underwings and vertical tail surfaces were then painted gloss black.
This would of course be the "original seven" serving in the Viet nam conflict.

The flat black was used on later models.
Along with Grey.

Can't seem to confirm if the darker Gunship grey was used, or if these are just faded flat black aircraft?

.........................................

I am ready for a full test build!
...and I am looking for Test Builder?!

First kit released will be "The Arbitrator" AC-130A 53-3129
and thats the one I would like to have test built.

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/New%20Model%20%20Releases/spookycovertest.jpg

I am preparing a second (different) Gunship, that I myself will be test building at the same time.
I'm sure there will be a few tweaks necessary, so I need someone with experience
and who is willing to work with me and allow me to update any parts as you go.
You kinda got to build at the same pace I will be building.

I also need to sort out a few instructional diagrams,
so I will need some directions and a few photos along the way.

If you are interested in test building this kit, let me know.
Please make sure you fit my test build needs (before you contact me)...

You must:
a. be an experienced builder
b. willing to build full size (1/48 scale = 33" wingspan, 24" length)
c. build as designed, no alterations or deviations
d. build immediately, following along as I build a similar aircraft.
e. be able to supply high quality photos during the test build.

I plan on creating a few Gunships and Hercules kits from this template...
obviously you get the kit for free to test build
but I will have no problem passing along another free Gunship model
to the successful test builder.

[Inky]

I would love to be a test builder for this project, I love the C-130 and the bigger the scale the better. I have a Nikon D40 that takes great pics. Here are a few of my models... http://www.papermodelers.com/forum/welcome-desk/14384-hello-fro-arkansas.html

[airdave]

well, Inky, only 9 posts here, but I have read through them...

and you seem like a perfect candidate!

I would love to give you a try with a test build.
Please email me directly
(I'll PM you the address or you can go through my website)

and I will get back to you with the model and info.
I just need to wrap up a few things on the alternate build
(that I will be starting at the same time)
and then we can get going with it.

[Inky]

Email sent. Looking forward to working with you.

[757rol]

Great looking aircraft... I wish I could build one in a future, but don't have the space on my studio though...

[Retired_for_now]

First Gunships were Glossy Black.
Actually, first Gunships were South Asian Camoflage
and the sides, underwings and vertical tail surfaces were then painted gloss black.
This would of course be the "original seven" serving in the Viet nam conflict.
The flat black was used on later models.
Along with Grey.
Can't seem to confirm if the darker Gunship grey was used, or if these are just faded flat black aircraft?

Dave, if you have good references go with them. I haven't found anything definitive on the first paint scheme, but judging by the outrage level among the local (old) gunship guys over the glossy paint on the airpark gun-pig I still doubt any operational paint jobs were glossy. Gloss is for big-MAC airlifters.
In my memory, the A-models were black bellied for a long time going to gunship gray overall as the entire H- and A-model fleet switched over. Couldn't give you a specific year on that, though. Paint jobs don't get too faded on operational aircraft - corrosion control sees to that.
Have you checked with the Spectre Association?
Spectre-Association: Home of the AC-130 Spectre Gunships (http://www.spectre-association.org/)

Yogi

[airdave]

Thanks Yogi...I think I have exhausted the search to my satisfaction.

I agree this can be a futile attempt sometimes confirming paint schemes and tracking down accurate information.
I for one am fed up with all the "experts".
Even the guys who were there never seem to be able to remember clearly! lol

I have read in a number of places (and at least two publications in my possession)
that state that the first Black paint jobs were glossy.
How glossy? I don't know.
But an apparent difference to later "flat" black finishes.

This doesn't matter too much anyway since these are paper models
and are usually not printed on glossy papers.

And I just don't see the point in wasting hours and days
trying to determine exact colours (like in the camouflage areas)
when every computer monitor shows the colours differently,
every printer prints them differently
and every type of paper or cardstock reproduces them differently!
LOL

For the Arbitrator, I have established the three basic colours used in the South Asia camo
and ignored the minor variations, the varying color codes and Plastic Model suggested colors
and laid out what i think is a good representation.
http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/arbitratorsample.jpg
............................

big fright earlier today (thanks Ray for your help with this)...

during work on my AC130A model (The Arbitrator kit to be exact)
I had a program crash.
PC hung up, and I had to end program and restart.

Usually not a big issue, because a "backup" file is created.
I just open the backup, fix the last few unsaved changes I need to,
and then resave over my original file.

Problem is, I had two files open at the time, and I saved the wrong backup file
over top of my AC130A Arbitrator file
and wiped out the whole thing!
Even the backup was the wrong one...so i had nothing else to recover.

Months of work...gone!

I tell you, I was just about in tears.

Anyway, as luck would have it, I had sent Ray an earlier version of the file,
which he still had a copy of.
And from that I have been able to rebuild the work over the last few days
and recover the The Arbitrator model.

Another day or two, and I will have a model to send off for test build!
PHEW!

[Barry]

I think you deserve a medal for the perseverence as well as the good work Dave

[Inky]

I think you deserve a medal for the perseverance as well as the good work Dave

I second that!

[Retired_for_now]

Ok, call it a third for barry on that!

Still doubt the paint was "glossy" but the first black paint jobs were likely not as "flat" as the later (expensive) paint jobs. Go with what you've got!

Yogi

[airdave]

haha thanks guys!!! I hope its a "shiny" medal!

My model (when built) will be "matte" finish.
Whatever the paper gives me! lol
I'm too cheap to buy the good stuff.

For you guys who want shiny planes, you will have to use shiny paper!

The paint is definitely referred to as "gloss"
but with my knowledge of paint, I would guess something like a single stage enamel
that even when called"gloss" has only a low grade shine.
Not exactly "glossy" like a modern Automotive finish.

We can argue till the cows come home about colours in old black&white photos,
but its hard to hide the glare and shine on those engine housings!
There is a definite difference in the finish in some of the VietNam era photos.
Not to mention that many of the Aircraft Pictorial Books claim Gloss Black finishes.

[Texman]

Dave,

Reference picture 4 above. The "gloss" on the engine is from the ground crew
wiping down the panels as they work/finish working on the engine. The oil/hydraulic
fluid does add a "shine" to the paint, but not the entire airframe. Notice the landing
gear sponson, where there has been a fluid leak around the panel edges, compared to the rest of the paint.

Now I also submit, that may be an older, weathered paint job,
as opposed to a fresh coat of paint (which would be "shinier").

[enigma]

in my work it is standard practice for offsite backup of digital media for disaster
recovery. it certainly worked in this case... lol

[Retired_for_now]

So, remembered a camera this trip. Shots of the gunports on 509 at Herbie:

40s
86482
86485

Mini-guns
86483
86486

20s
86484
86487

Sensors
86488
86489
86490

Yogi (you still need underwing shots?)

[Retired_for_now]

Lower and aft

86491

86492

Yogi

[Retired_for_now]

You seem to have the wing roots down:

86493

86494

86495

86496
This one's a Talon I (MC-130E) ... don't talk to me about this paint job either.

86497
Back to the AC-A

Yogi (OK, enough abuse of the forum bandwidth/storage)

BTW: just a note, the little sqaure patches you see in various places are recent mods for self-protection flare cassettes. Ditto with some of the tiny domes scattered around the fuselage (in a pattern only the EWO can understand ...)

[airdave]

nice set of photos that will fit nicely into my collection!!!
thank you!

wow, they really did paint it gloss black!
and they painted everything didn't they?!!
LOL
I can see why some guys are unhappy with the look.
But I assume its more about protection and durability in the elements
rather than an actual recreation of the original paint.

[Retired_for_now]

and they painted everything didn't they?!!

Expect the "portholes" were overpainted partly for protection and partly 'cause there's no telling what's left inside. Partially gutted, certainly no fire control cab in the cargo compartment anymore, and stuff to maintain the display stashed inside.
Check your references, I expect the gun-side ports were actually blacked out to reduce visibility below the firing orbit and to prevent the muzzle flashes from intruding on the gun crews. The large square patch aft of the deflector on the port, aft tail (behind the paratroop door/sensor) might have been a window for the loadmaster to watch for AAA threats. There's a large bubble set in the aft cargo door on -H and -U model gunships for that purpose.

Yogi

I've got more (walkaround) if you need them.

[Ashrunner]

Yogi...how involved were you with the AC-130s in the mid 80s?

[Retired_for_now]

Ashrunner - just an observer in another unit at Herbie. Lots of crosstalk among folks about recent/current ops with the -A/H and the AC-130U saga ... (never mind bringing the T-II on board).

Yogi

[Zathros]

Really excellent Dave. Superb workmanship. I got to see one of these flying at an altitude of 1500 feet, He was 100 feet off of my left wingtip. He passed me and he was probably 100' away from me. He was coming in fast for Stewart Air Force base, I was sightseeing over the Hudson and must have been in his way. It was so loud that as he was approaching me, unaware, I thought from the noise and vibration that my engine mount had busted (I was flying a Piper Warrior). By the time I landed I had sweat marks from my armpits to my socks. Being at the same level, I should not have had to worry about turbulence, but not taking chances, I started a very quick climb. Very scary up close and personal like that!

Your re-do is excellent and I like the colors.

[airdave]

Just an update to keep this thread in play...

With the help of Shaun (Inky) I am getting two test builds done of the AC-130.

Decided I want to make sure we have no serious issues before I release any build photos or info.
This will be the fourth time building this kit for me,
and although things get easier for me each time,
there are still a few tricky areas on this aircraft that could give a first timer some headaches.

This will be classed as an Advanced Skill kit, but my approach with all my models
is always design things for a Beginner, so I am doing my best to make sure the
proper instructions are in place for more difficult areas, or redesign those areas
to make them work better.

Shaun is working on 53-3129 The Arbitrator, one of the very first Spectre Gunships, as it served in Viet Nam.
This aircraft will later become "The First Lady"

I am building 54-1630 Azrael, which many might be familiar with.
She now sits on display at the USAF Museum but working from some old photos, I have altered her back to desert Storm era look.

Heres a couple of sneak peeks...
note the cool (optional) Sighting and Tracking System module that
can be fitted into the forward hatchway.
The Arbitrator forward Guns are not properly fitted, just there for sake of the photo.

[airdave]

for those still paying attention...

The Test Builds continue!
Shaun (Inky) and I are continuing to work on our respective test builds.

I need to give a shout of support to Shaun for putting up with my delays
as a result of part modifications.

We both struggled a bit through the rear sections of Fuselage and
Shaun had to deal with a first time build of the Tail sections.
(having designed and already built this tail, I don't think about it anymore)

Anyway, a weeks delay, while I sorted out a Fuselage section that I just wasn't happy with.
New parts designed...I think we are both on our way again.

I had my first instance of Krylon Matte Clear spray messing up my model parts!
Probably my fault (putting it on too heavy?) but the spray affected the ink print
and ruined the Nose section of my Azrael build.

not a big deal...one nights work, to build a new nose.

Anyway, attached are a couple of test build shots of the tail sections.

.....
in my spare time, I have been looking through ideas for more C-130 and AC-130 releases.
The first two kits I am working on are Arbitrator and Azrael Gunships.

I had a request for a C-130E Sharkmouth which is most likely release consideration.
(I still have to go back in and create a base C-130 model from my Gunship kit)

Going back through some of the earlier suggestions, I had a little fun
laying up the tail-art for the the Thailand Airforce 30th Anniversary herc.
I'm not sure what the interest would be in this particular aircraft,
but with colourful tail-art like this, how can I pass it up?!

[peter taft]

Abso-Bloody-Lutely Brilliant thus far.... what a talent ;)

[airdave]

The Herk Werk continues!...

Shaun (Inky) is working away on his Arbitrator build...

and I have been plugging away at my Azrael build.
And, making many tweaks and changes.

I am just about there...getting very close now to the release of this Kit!

Assembled my fuselage on the weekend...
having a bit of trouble with the printer and Fox-It PDF reader.
Lots of bad prints and varying colours.
You can still see the remnants of some miscoloured parts... I had to rebuild
an entire new Forward half, but it allowed me to test a few more things.

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/Hercules/azraeltest034.jpg

Rear Fuselage sorted out too...

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/Hercules/azraeltest037.jpg

and complete, the Herc is starting to show its size!

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/Hercules/azraeltest031.jpg

as I said, there are some varying colour tones in this build
but that one obvious forward section does not look this bad in person.
I think the camera flash really made it stand out.

now, its time to fit the lower Fuselage Blister assembly.
I will not be building the landing gear on this Kit.
I have already built it once, so there wasn't anything I needed to test.
And this plane will hang anyway.

Inky is building the gear on The Arbitrator, so that will be a good backup test.

I have already built the Wing assemblies, so hopefully all will go well
with Azrael's wings...fingers crossed.

And if I'm lucky, we might have some kits to release before the Month is out!

First two Kits will be The Arbitrator and Azrael Gunships.

I'm going to follow that up with a Sharkmouth C-130 (a personal request from Ray (Texman))
...who is hopefully putting together a scaled down (micro?) version.

And, as I mentioned earlier, the 30th Anniversary Royal Thai Air Force C-130.

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/Hercules/HerculesKitscoming.jpg

I sticking with A, E and H models...so if there are any other suggestions for repaint versions please let me know!

[airdave]

Running out of time....

if I want to get a release this month.
I must admit, I am pushing it now. lol
and thats not always a good thing considering my impatient build skills! haha

I convinced myself last week, that no matter how much I wanted to hang this Gunship up,
it was first a "test" build and a platform for all the final tweaks and adjustments,
and just wasn't going to be a very respectable build.

I reminded my self of that again last night when I dry fitted the wing assembly to the fuselage ...with glue.
That just resulted in tearing off sections of the fuselage surface.

After a couple more assembly-disassembly-assembly bouts,
all in the name of making small adjustments to the wing mountings,
I have made a bit of a mess of the plane!

Torn and crumpled wing fairings, glue spots and torn areas on the fuselage
...even some water splashes! (I keep a small container handy to clean my glue brushes).
Add to that the miscolour misprints, and this now looks like a "battle weary" Gunship!

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/azraeltest051.jpg

Anyway, heres a couple of shots, just to show you the Armament all in place.
I'm happy with all the guns and cannons...
I thought they might be a little thin and small to construct,
but not too much trouble at all.

So, I am moving on to assembly of the four engines.
I did a test build of some props last night, which went just fine,
but for this build I will most likely just leave off the props (as if in flight).

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/azraeltest050.jpg

[cgutzmer]

looking pretty awesome dave! thanks for sharing the great progress :)

[shawnr5]

Can't wait for this. I have a friend who is a widow. Her husband was AG on Ghost Rider, in Ubon during Viet Nam. She would be beside herself if I brought her a nice sized AC-130.

[airdave]

Ghost Rider eh?

if I can collect a few more pics, I might be able to throw this one together.

In Nam colours like The Arbitrator? or later Gray version?

http://www.spectre-association.org/aircraft/017-54-1623.jpg

or...I hope you are not referring to "Ghostrider" 69-6567 AC-130H* in Euro Camouflage?

*shot down in 1991, by SAM, all crew KIA

[airdave]

and , we aren't talking about AC-119G Gunships, right?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0e/AC-119.jpg


http://www.atterburybakalarairmuseum.org/crew3_c_flt_1.jpg

71SOS AC-119G Gunships were all designated as "Shadow".
This photo is from Robert Branscomb, crew member of Shadow 77 "Ghost Rider".
In the photo from left to right are:
Major Thomas H. Cougill(P), Maj. Paul Maxwell (C/P), Capt. John McGary (Nav/NOS),
Capt. James Davis (NOS/Nav), SSgt. Bart H. Dye (F/E), SSgt. Robert Branscomb (I/O),
SSgt. Thomas Newbold (A/G), Sgt. Russell Steffensmeier (A/G).

[legion]

Not to disrespect your Herc, Dave, but i don't believe that there is any model out there of the AC-119G gunship! It does look very sleek and deadly, not as 'goofy' as the Herc.

[airdave]

I had no problem with anything you said...up until the word "goofy"!

I think theres a few Spooky guys out there that just might be willing
to laser your house for that comment.

[peter taft]

I had no problem with anything you said...up until the word "goofy"!

I think theres a few Spooky guys out there that just might be willing
to laser your house for that comment.

Goooooofy..............Goooooooooooooooofy :eek:, no way is she anywhere near goofy - She's AWESOME ! Looking good Dave ;):)

[shawnr5]

She would probably be reduced to tears by a Ghost Rider in the Viet Nam colors.

[airdave]

Then this is a fairly easy one to create.
Since I have the Arbitrator layout, which is essentially the same aircraft,
I only need to swap out the nose art and aircraft numbers.

Other than that, it appears to have the same setup.

Watch for it shortly after the first model releases.
Which is, of course, after I finish these test builds and tweaks.

got any photos of the Ghost Rider crew?

[Nh3ave2009]

Absolutely FANTASTIC Dave she is a real work of art. I am stunned!!!

[legion]

I had no problem with anything you said...up until the word "goofy"!

I think theres a few Spooky guys out there that just might be willing
to laser your house for that comment.

Hey, it's just my personal opinion (beauty is in the eye of the beholder after all) and there are a lot of other planes i could insult for looking 'goofy'. But I won't do that here.


I did find one model of the C-119 Boxcar, by Bob's Cardmodels. Wouldn't be too hard to repaint that to a Shadow/Stinger?

[airdave]

Thanks for the attention and the kind comments.

Obviously this is one of those projects that has dragged on for quite some time
and it must be tough to stay fully focused and on top of the entire project.
I do appreciate those of you that are still watching and waiting for this model.

Legion, its all in fun...we all appreciate your input and opinion
(no matter how ridiculously wrong it is)
...its fun to poke each other a little bit.

The C-119 Boxcar has some similarities...I'm not an expert on either aircraft
so I don't have much of an opinion at the moment.

It would be cool to look into...but you can't just pick a model from someone's
site and start doing repaints.

Well...you could...for yourself...
but I can't do it with the plan of redistributing to others.

But I will look into it....you have peaked my interest in this plane.


................................................


Herc updates:

started work on the engines...got two done so far

(In the photo below) the engines are not glued to the wings yet.
Fit to the wing profile looks really good, a big improvement over the original kit.
This came as a result of reshaping the wing profile
and vectorizing parts to smooth out the curves of the wing ribs.

My new Engine design already works well, but I think I am gonna tweak it a bit more.

As I mentioned earlier, I will not be putting prop blades on this kit,
but I might add some clear spinner discs.

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/azraeltest052.jpg


As it happens, last night, Inky sent me photos of his latest work.
Looks like he's getting his engines in place too!
Looking good Shaun!!

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/enginefit.jpg

[n810]

Look forward to this one! I would really love it if someone would create an interior for the C-130/AC-130

[airdave]

Look forward to this one! I would really love it if someone would create an interior for the C-130/AC-130

This kit was supposed to have a full cockpit interior!

I built up a complete nose section...
then I cut it into top and bottom parts,
which allowed me to design a new set of formers that included a subfloor former.
The basis for a full cockpit.

I have layouts for most of the cockpit components completed aswell.

I wasn't going to go nuts with details, because the scale is still fairly small
and the window openings will not allow very good inspection of the interior.

But then, I started thinking about how to deal with the cabin windows.

You see the cockpit windows are relatively flush on the real aircraft
and cutting and mounting clear plastic from the inside would create
a very unrealsitic "step" in the window frames ...which I didn't like.

Then I noticed how thin the frames are, between all the windows.
And there are many cockpit windows to cut out.
At 1/48 scale, this was going to be a tricky job cutting out all these small
windows and frames
and then keeping them from breaking or tearing would be another challenge.

The largest windows are only about 1/4" square! The smallest is about 1/8" across the top!
Some of the frames between the main cockpit windows are only about 1/16" wide!

And this Nose section requires assembly before cutting out the openings (in my opinion)
which makes it even tougher to cut out the small window openings cleanly.
Not to mention the fact that you also have to cut through all those tabbed gluing strips!

So, in the end, I was very unhappy with how this whole idea was going to work
and I scrapped the idea completely.

[n810]

Truthfully flight deck is less important to me as the cargo cabin. the ammo drums, loading ramp, things of that nature. I'd love to display one with a hummer driving out the ramp or some cargo pallets (on the C-130) or other interior details like the aforementioned ammo drums, that could be seen with the load door open.

[airdave]

oh, yes, of course.

my original plane was also to include some sort of opening rear door.

but the former design of this model is not condusive to interior parts
or an opening rear door without some major redesign work.

I also realized that once I open up such a large hatchway, it exposes way too much of the interior and would require an extensive interior.

the FLY model Herc has a full interior...I have seen it...it scares me!
its not a model build, it looks more like a Career!

[n810]

.

the FLY model Herc has a full interior...I have seen it...it scares me!
its not a model build, it looks more like a Career!

Yeah, I have that one. It sits in a drawer and taunts me on a regular basis.

[shawnr5]

got any photos of the Ghost Rider crew?


Here is crew 16, from the Spectre Association's webpage
http://www.spectre-association.org/images/acphotos/Ubon14Big.jpg

[airdave]

great photo!
you don't need to reveal anything or point him out,
but is the person in question in this photo?

I would consider using this on the Cover of the Ghost Rider kit if he is.

can you point me to the page where you found this photo?

[shawnr5]

I got the picture here: Spectre-Association: Vietnam 3 (http://www.spectre-association.org/vietnam3.htm)
Harold is fourth from the left on the bottom row.

There's a nice picture of the Interdictor's crew at the bottom of the page.

There are also some wonderful pictures in this FLIKR account. The owner took the pictures at UBON RTAFB, in 1970.
1970 - (AC-130A Spectre Gunship 54-1623 "Ghost Rider") | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/harvey4u/4916761057/in/set-72157624783124834/)

[rbeach84]

AD, probably best that you 'yielded' before the engineering challenge of creating interior components. Although the windows could be dealt with a clear plastic "folded sheet" component (given that most if not all of the windows are flat), with a thin paper overlay, it would require an entirely different approach to that area of the model. To build cargo deck interior would similarly require a 'double-shell' approach, or require use of a near prototypical number of frames. Either way, getting the needed stiffness would force a complete redesign of the model kit - which is not really what you are after.

Could be done, just a really big change to approach. Nobi's paradigm is "simple, but good looking" models, after all... speaking of which, I need to post the completion pix of that Beta buidl I was doing for him! Yikes, look how old that is...:eek:

[airdave]

Engines completed last night!
All fit well except for left outboard...my shoddy workmanship.
I rushed the left wing construction a but and didn't properly glue the wing "skin"
down to the inner Ribs.
If I push down the wing surface, the engine fits beautifully!
89296

As I mentioned earlier, I decided to forgo the prop Blades and opt for an "in flight" model.

Just a side not...when measuring for a Prop spin diameter,
I realized that my prop Blades (included in the kits) are way out of scale!
I am sure I based my new Props on Nobi's originals, but they are way too big.

So, I have rescaled them (and sent off a new set to inky for his Arbitrator build)

............................

back to the in-flight spinners...

I always save the blank discs that come in CD/DVD spindles.
Some are rigid plastic like normal CDs...but some are a soft, flexible, thinner plastic
that I can cut easily with scissors.

And what do you know?!...the center hole is exactly the right size!
89297
So, I printed up a template for the correct prop diameter
and using scissors, I trimmed the discs to the correct size.

then I ran a yellow Marker around the edges
(and let it dry for a good hour before handling the discs!)
89298
I used a few drops of CA Glue to attach the discs to the spinner hubs.
I'll post pics of the finished plane later today (hopefully) once I get all
the little antenna and fusleage thingies in place.

[Retired_for_now]

Sweet! Getting the alignment right must have been a challenge - but it looks like you got a win. Props look to be all in-plane.
Yogi

BTW - if someone really wants an interior (same for Hawkman's AC-47) it might be better to make a separate model (almost a diorama). Cargo floor from the FS245 forward bulkhead to the ramp hinge, half-height walls (to allow mounting the ammo racks), and the gun mounts and fire-control cab on the floor. Of course, then you need to decide if you're going to model the interior of the fire-control cab.

[airdave]

Well I am just about ready to sit down and put on the last bits of Azrael.
I've got all the little Antenna and thing-a-ma-jigs that stick out from the fuselage to put on!

And, if the weather holds out, I might get some photos tomorrow outside.

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/Hercules/azraelinflight.jpg




Shaun (Inky) has finished the Arbitrator...mostly.
He also has to put on the Antennas, etc

but he sent me some really nice pics.
I am just wrapping up the Kit and will hopefully be able to get it uploaded
to ecardmodels tomorrow.
I'll post more pics with the release announcement.
but for now, heres a sneak peek at Inky's build of my AC-130A The Arbitrator.

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/Hercules/ArbitratorBuildFinal001.jpg

[josh]

Just told my kids they're not getting any allowance for a while......i'm ready for this kit.

[hawkman67]

Both Builds look Awsome!! so looking forward to getting a couple of this one....Very Well Done:)
Jeff

[shawnr5]

Sweet. Can't wait. My wife says "that's too big." She hasn't seen my GPM B-52.

[peter taft]

Very nice.... make that VERY VERY nice, both look gorgeous ! Top dollar guys ;)

[Inky]

VERY VERY nice, both look gorgeous ! Top dollar guys ;)

Thank you Peter.

[Uyraell]

Very fine looking Models. I'd be proud to own one, and might yet, all going well,

Have followed this thread with interest.
A friend of mine was one of those guys who from time to time used to call Spectres in for a ground-strike (his term for it), though not always where the official maps recorded the strike as having taken place, if you get my meaning. To use my friend's words: "A lot went on, on the other side of the fence."

Respectful Regards, Uyraell.

[cgutzmer]

Both of them look awesome! great models :)
Chris

[doctormax]

Wow guys that was some good work the two of you done. really nice photos and yes i was lurking and not commenting for a while ;)

[airdave]

Just working on an updated "Fat Albert" C-130 (Blue Angels)
which will replace my older Nobi repaint in ecardmodels store.

I 've got 5 Hercules almost ready to go!...
well, actually two are already ready to go,
AC-130 The Arbitrator and AC-130A Azrael

Just finishing up the C-130 Sharkmouth
and Royal Thai Air Force 30th Anniv. C-130.

A few more things to add to the "Ghost Rider" AC-130A
and it will be ready too!

...not sure what kits to release first?!
maybe just get 'em all done and out of the way?

I won't bother with any more until I get Fat Albert sorted away,
but if there are no more suggestions, I may add the Polish AF version that was suggested earlier.
(at least, I think it was a Polish AF Herc?, I will have to check)

[Inky]

Are you doing major changes to the "Fat Albert" C-130 (Blue Angels)?? I was going to perches it come the first of the month. If you are doing changes on it let me know when they are complete so I can buy the updated one.

[airdave]

The Fat Albert kit (available at ecardmodels) was one of my first repaints.
It is also one of Nobi's much older designs.

Although it is still an acceptable kit, it had numerous issues.
Some changes were made...but there were many more areas I wanted to address.

Since I now have a newly designed Herc model of my own,
it makes sense for me to revisit that design and create a new Fat Albert
model with the newly designed template.

I haven't instructed Chris to remove the older Nobi repaint yet,
because I was unsure of when I would get to the new design.
But I think I will have the new Fat Albert ready this week,
so you are welcome to wait.

[Inky]

Sounds good Dave, that will give me a chance to build the 7 FA-18 Blue Angel planes.

[doctormax]

I can't wait and seems like in very short time I be buying more credit to buy.

[airdave]

although included on many scale models of Fat Albert,
I have yet to see the long range Fuel Tanks on the wings
on the actual plane.

I don't even see the Wing Pylons on this aircraft!

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/middle/8/0/6/1201608.jpg

I have not included the external wing tanks and wing pylons in the
Blue Angels C-130 kit because I don't believe they are used.

Anyone know better?

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/middle/6/7/3/1107376.jpg

I've seen it perform many times, have done a walk-around of it at Sherman Field/NAS Pensacola, and an ex-F.A. pilot (USMC) was one of my father's grad students. It doesn't carry the tanks, according to him, though the wings are still plumbed for them. But for shows it's flown clean-wing.

Wyvern

[doctormax]

There is a photo of one with fuel tanks on wikidpedia do Dave. look up Lockhead HC-130 only ones i have seen with long range fuel tanks.

[airdave]

no, I asked about Fat Albert...not Hercs in general

[Retired_for_now]

Dang, was just out at NAS and could have looked. Short answer, A/B models could take the small external tanks outboard of the engines (removeable). Every E/H model Herk has the plumbing for the large external tanks between the engines (and interior fuel line fittings for tanks in the cargo compartment). The tanks can be removed (pylon drops from the wing, have never seen the tanks themselves off of the pylons) from all the Herks that have them and the airplane flies just fine.
Fat Albert is a T-model I think, so would normally have the external tanks. Removing them reduces drag and improves the aircraft's roll rate.
Had to bring a C-130E back from Japan to Alaska with the externals removed (and loaded in the back as cargo) in the early '80s when we were having problems with cracked attachment fittings. Funny thing, without the drag of the pylons/tanks you get almost (but not quite) as much range as you do with them - endurance suffers and you have less gas to offload if you're playing tanker (H/KC-130) though.

Bottom line, I'll look next time I'm out there but I think you have the right answer - just leave off the pylons/tanks. That's how they use it.

Yogi

[airdave]

I agree guys! and thanks for the input.
The Fat Albert will not include the Wing Pylons or External Fuel Tanks.

It will however include the JATO Bottles.

Earlier, during the design of this kit, I added (to the fuselage) the details for the JATO attachments.
(You can see in the attachment, a section of the Fuselage blister part)
...it was a simple case of adding some line art that indicated the mounting
slots and attachment points for the JATO Bottles.

89582

This will probably just be on the C-130s
(since the Gunships have Cannon ports in this area)

For now I will only be including the JATO parts with Fat Albert.

[airdave]

hey look what I'm workin' on!

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/Hercules/LC-130mainskis02.jpg

hardest part was finding closeup photos that showed the construction of the skis
and more importantly, how they attach to the aircraft!

I eventually found some photos...enough to help me with a beta design...

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/Hercules/LC-130mainskis01.jpg

but now, I am stumped as to how to attach the skis to my existing model
without major alterations to my model
and still produce a respectable looking modification.
I also have to consider something thats not seriously overcomplicated.

anyway, for fans of LC-130s, I am working on two versions.
Stay tuned!

[Inky]

Sweet!!!!!!!

[cgutzmer]

very cool! I am sure you will come up with a solution :)

[airdave]

Looks like I got a front Ski sorted out too!

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/Hercules/LC-130frontskis02.jpg


Without modifying my Landing gear, I have created a simplified method of attachment.
For me, the parts are too small to get into a lot of technically realistic detail.
I'm trying to create the best visual effect, with the least amount of parts
and the simplest assembly.

Luckily with the Ski setup, a lot of the parts are blocked or difficult to see
so I think my simple assembly works.

Only issue is I have to decide on a display position.
The Wheels obviously raise and lower within the wheel well
depending on the load.
The Skis also raise and lower in relation to the gear, by load.

Aswell...the height of the Wheels within the Skis can be adjusted by the crew depending on the ground surface.

I can't make movable adjustable Skis, they will be fixed in one position.
So I have chosen a fully loaded, aircraft on the ground...with the wheels extended
slightly below the Skis...as in a parked position.

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/Hercules/LC-130frontskis01.jpg

[airdave]

Consider this the JUNE UPDATE!

C-130 projects continue...
I am preparing at least five new models.

Obviously I mentioned the Ski equipped versions in the last post,
and I have created two different LC-130s.
An USAF Arctic scheme (older style) and a NAVY/USMC Arctic paint scheme.
Basically the same aircraft, with two uniquely different paint jobs.

Both models will have the Skis and JATO.

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/New%20Model%20%20Releases/C-130Junereleases.jpg

I've also finished a Polish Air Force C-130

and how could I forget to do some Canadian stuff?!
I decided to do a 1960 CC-130 with RCAF markings
and a more modern (2008) Armed Forces-Canada Tanker.

I did a very quick build of the nose section (of the RCAF) plane
to check some colours...heres a sneak peek:

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/Hercules/RCAFC130Nosetest02.jpg
these test builds are "pre-adjustment", so don't judge too closely
http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/Hercules/RCAFC130Nosetest01.jpg

Should be able to get all these models ready soon...watch for release announcements!

[goodduck]

I just bought your "Azrael". The kit looking great! It was a very tough decision between shark mouth or gunship, but big guns always win for me. If it was a print kit I would have you autographed one for me and I'll buy one more to build. Don't know when I will actually got to build it tho with all my other builds going on. I'm a "What If" guy so I planning on adding a nose art on her and change it to CA base and maybe make that a Marine gunship too.

Very nice model! Only way to top that is weathering the panels.

[airdave]

Thanks Allen...

I did toy with the idea of "weathering".
I have recently been convinced to do simpler textures.
And with such a big model, I wasn't sure about experimenting.

Send me your address, and I'll mail you an autograph!
I think I have some mini airbrush prints laying around...I could autograph one of those for you.

[stealth-tech]

I would be interested in a Vietnam era C-130E. The jungle camoflauge version with the grey bottom. I used to love watching them fly many years ago.

[airdave]

not being an expert on all the different versions,
I would need to research the paint scheme a little more.

I assume its just the S.Asia camo (just like what is on the gunships)
but without the black painted sides...right?

and you say, a grey underside?

okay, I will look into it.
(to be honest, the camos are the hardest to deal with.
trying to make sure all the panel artwork lines up can be a pain)

[Inky]

I think he might be talking about this type.

[stealth-tech]

Inky's picture is about what I'm looking for. In the models I have built the colors were camouflage grey underneath, dark, and medium greens and desert tan on top with some appropriate decalling. Thanks for at least looking in to it.

[Casey]

AirDave,

I ran across this thread while searching for C-130 images and I must say, awesome work on the C-130 models!

Being a huge C-130 fan and a "want to be" C-130 know it all, I couldn't pass on the opportunity to offer some assistance.

You have mixed up the names of the AC-130As. It is easy to do with three of them having tail numbers ending in "29!"

AC-130A 53-3129 (Lockheed #3001) was named "The First Lady."
AC-130A 54-1629 (Lockheed #3016) was named "The Arbitrator."
AC-130A 55-0029 (Lockheed #3056) was named "Midnight Express."

My site www.herkybirds.com (http://www.herkybirds.com/) should prove useful to you in researching your future C-130 Models. We have over 13,000 images, a complete Lockheed Service News collection, an active message board and more. Please feel free to hit the folks on the message board up for info or PM/e-mail me if I can be of assistance.

Casey

[airdave]

Thanks Casey...
so you are suggesting that my Arbitrator should carry 54-1629 (instead of 53-3129)?


According to the info I have (from "Spectre-Assoc." as well as some photos I have collected, and the USAF Serial number info);

53-3129 is the first production C-130
which then flew as Arbitrator when converted to Gunship (in 1967 if I remember correctly).
I don't know if it actually carried the name "First Lady" before Gunship conversion
but it was renamed sometime during or after Viet Nam service and repainted in the all grey finish.

[Here is Spectre-Assoc page for the First Lady] (http://www.spectre-association.org/First_Lady_129.htm)

I still am unsure that the current displayed "First Lady" is in fact the same plane
since there apparently was another later First Lady Gunship (but thats not important in this respect).

54-1629 is listed as an unnamed and no nose-art aircraft...
(although on the Spectre site, they use a photo of The Arbitrator in its place)
...but it was destroyed in 1969 with the loss of two crewmen.

It is supposedly this aircraft (pictured below) but I can't make out the tail number to verify.
[quote]
[Title] The AC-130 at Ubon Ratchathani, Thailand in the Spring of 1969.
The following description was submitted by Col. Charles F. Spicka, USAF (Ret.):
C-130A #54-1629 is painted with a black underside and a camouflaged upper surface.
This was the first paint scheme used on Spectre Gunships.
This aircraft was the first AC-130A Gunship combat loss after a 37mm hit, at night, on 24 May 1969.
The hit came over the Trails in Laos and all but four crewmembers bailed out.
The Spectre Gunship lost all hydraulic pressure due to enemy AAA.
One Spectre crewmember was lost in flight over the target (SSgt. Jack W. Troglen, Illuminator Operator)
and another (SSgt. Cecil Taylor, Flight Engineer) on landing when the right wing struck an F-4 barrier house
and the aircraft caught fire.
The 16th SOS lost 5 more AC-130s before the Vietnam War ended.

http://www.petester.com/vnpics/ac130br01.jpg

If the aircraft pictured is in fact 54-1629, then you can plainly see it does not
bear the Nose art of The Arbitrator.

The photo and info is from Peter B's site, who was a Gunship Pilot Trainer in Ubon Thailand.

[airdave]

...oh, and HerkyBirds is now permanently added to my "Aircraft reference" section!!!

[Retired_for_now]

...oh, and HerkyBirds is now permanently added to my "Aircraft reference" section!!!

But of course - it was, is, and always will be the perfect 'lifter.

Counting tail numbers? OK, many-many kudo points for detailing, etc. However, I really never paid much attention except to the tails in my unit - simple stuff like 64-0500 with the haunted electrical system, several MC-130Es (mostly '64 models) bent to varying degrees (makes a difference in navigation if the front end ain't quite pointed forward ...), and the few '62 models with the remnant hydraulics from the old forward cargo door.

Still - sweet work on these, Dave.

Yogi

[Casey]

AirDave,

Good thing I said "want to be" C-130 know it all.

The info I provided was referenced from Lars Olausson's "Lockheed Hercules Production List 28th edition." My apologies for not stating that earlier.

After referencing the Spectre Association site and doing a little research, it does appear that 3129 may very well have carried the name "The Arbitrator."

There is one major difference between the two aircraft that aided me in my research. 3129 has side opening NLG doors and 1629 was the first C-130 with rear opening NLG Doors. The image below shows "The Arbitrator" with side opening NLG doors. So it is definitely not 1629. I wish I could find an image with the "The Arbitrator" name and tail number "3129" but I'll take "The Spectre Associations" word for it. They would know.

90933

I'm going to start a discussion regarding this info on HerkyBirds.com and see what other info comes to light. I'll also get word to Lars so he can research subject and correct the next edition of his book as required.

I thought I was going to help you and ended up getting an education of my own. Thanks for straightening me up.

Casey

[Casey]

AirDave,

As I stated above 3129 did not have a rear opening NLG Door as shown below.


http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t6/outlawzairbrushcom/hobby%20links/AC130%20C130/C130whitebuild018.jpg



They opened to the side.

90934

[Casey]

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t6/outlawzairbrushcom/hobby%20links/AC130%20C130/C130whitebuild030.jpg




Also, A model C-130s did not have dump masts as pictured above.

90935


Please let me know if I am provided unwanted critique. I'm only trying to help and do not want to wear out my welcome.

[airdave]

Its funny, The Arbitrator seems to be one of the few (maybe the only) Hercs
not to carry the number in the lower side cockpit windows.
That would have obviously helped in this discussion.

Only the first seven C-130 aircraft had the side opening Nose gear doors
and all the pics I have of Arbitrator show that.
This was an issue for me, because I did not learn this until after
I had finished the kit.
I was forced to go back in and design a new set of doors and mounting brackets
for The Arbitrator (before I released the model)!
Ghost Rider is a later version, so it has the front to rear doors.

The "white build" you are showing is an early version of the C-130 design and only being used for AC-130 test parts.
Please don't reference that kit.
90936

I have no worries about you being wrong! lol don't sweat it.
As everyone knows around here, I am always right.

(lets see what kind of attention that statement stirs up ROFL)

I hate having to go back and alter a kit, but if I have made a big blunder
(like putting the wrong aircraft number on) then I will do it with no complaints.
okay...I might complain...but I'll still do it!

Discussion like this helps me produce a better kit.
I have no problems with your critiques.

[airdave]

Also, A model C-130s did not have dump masts as pictured above.

90935


Thats a left over part from the C-130 kit...
I didn't realize it should have been removed for the Gunship models.

Hopefully those building the kits, can leave that part off.

thanks

[goodduck]

Rivets counters always scare me. One reason why I moving to Scifi anime stuff where I can get away with murder.

[airdave]

Rivets counters always scare me. One reason why I moving to Scifi anime stuff where I can get away with murder.

true...I have better luck with my KoolWheelz kits!~!

hey Allen...your autograph went into the mail today!

[goodduck]

Dude! way cool!

[airdave]

Dude! way cool!

I wouldn't get too excited until you see what I sent. lol

[Casey]

The "white build" you are showing is an early version of the C-130 design and only being used for AC-130 test parts.
Please don't reference that kit.
90936



Bested again, LOL.

[goodduck]

I,m always excited when somebody offing me free stuff.

[airdave]

June 7 AC-130A UPDATE!

Thanks to Allen Tam for spotting a slight print error in the Azrael AC-130 kit.

Page 25 has a part number overlapping the edge of the part.
I also noticed the same issue on the next page.

I have fixed the kit...updated version dated 06-07-11...and am in the process of uploading the new file.

If you purchased Azrael, please go back to ecardmodels.com for a full replacement kit
or contact me and I will send you the updated pages for the kit.

[rickstef]

Hey Dave,

Have you seen these aircraft?
A L-100-30
Photos: Lockheed L-100-30 Hercules (L-382G) Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/photo/Safair/Lockheed-L-100-30-Hercules/1919607/M/)
Photos: Lockheed L-100-30 Hercules (L-382G) Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/photo/OSRL---Oil/Lockheed-L-100-30-Hercules/1930042/M/)
Photo Search Results | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?cx=partner-pub-8297169501225184%3Aa05n2n-tzky&q=Hercules+oil+spill&sa=Submit&search_field=datedesc&siteurl=www.airliners.net%252F&sort_order=photo_id+desc&page=1&page_limit=15&sid=431fe80924c66713b8a15c9636c9782a)

A DC-130A drone carrier
Photos: Lockheed DC-130A Hercules (L-182) Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/photo/USA---Navy/Lockheed-DC-130A-Hercules/1913316/M/)


EC-130Q
Photos: Lockheed EC-130Q Hercules (L-382) Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/photo/National-Science-Foundation/Lockheed-EC-130Q-Hercules/1903088/M/)

I know you said you wanted to do something other than a gray or camo bird, so here are some options, if you accept them

[airdave]

The Oil Response plane is of big interest
however some major model differences from the older C-130 that I have.

I have also looked at some of the odd nose variants,
but haven't tried to tackle the new design of parts.

I could probably fake the EC-130Q...at least with the paint job.


As long as people can tolerate some technical innacuracies, I could add these to the list of future considerations.

[SMWulph]

How about the C-130s that use the Fulton Surface-to-air recovery system?
Fulton surface-to-air recovery system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulton_surface-to-air_recovery_system)

[airdave]

How about the C-130s that use the Fulton Surface-to-air recovery system?
Fulton surface-to-air recovery system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulton_surface-to-air_recovery_system)

I've read the Wiki description and it really doesn't explain much...
the plane is obviously unimportant since this "system" has been used on various aircraft.

even better are the photos of the system in use!
LOL
obviously i am being sarcastic.

How these two photos show you anything in beyond me?!!
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/55/Fulton_system1.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d5/Fulton_system2.jpg
[These two photos. reprinted actual size, "show the Fulton system in use"]


and what is that big bulge on the fuselage?

[Knife]

The big bulge on top of the fuselage housed a radar unit that tracked falling objects that would be snagged by the Fulton system. I'd tell you more, but then I'd have to kill you.

[Retired_for_now]

Dave, if you're trying to cover every C-130 mod and variant you're going to be at this for the rest of your life.
Yogi

[airdave]

haha yeah I know Yogi! but they keep coming don't they! lol

My interest is usually with unique and interesting paint schemes.
But I also don't mind producing some personal requests, like a specific Air Force or application.
eg Gunships, Ski equipped and various C-130 liveries.

But Yogi is right, there are limits to how many models I want to produce
and I also have to think about the amount of work to produce a model
as opposed to how many people might be interested in it.

Its not like everyone has the room to build and display 16 different 1/48 Herc models!


Please don't stop with your suggestions...
I'm sure I will produce a few more Hercs, and its nice to see what people are interested in.
If I can produce some camo variations it would be nice, but it seems like they are more work than they might be worth.

What I might do, is compile some of these suggestions into a list and
ask for some votes on what aircraft interest the most people.
then I would really know what models are worth putting in the time on.

Keep in mind, the new commercial L-100 20 or 30 are an extended fuselage.
So I don't think I will bother with any of those.
(I'm not into trying to design new fuselage sections right now)

And the extended nose variants are not being considered at the moment.
(Once again, its an issue of redesigning parts, and I think I will leave that for future consideration)

[airdave]

The big bulge on top of the fuselage housed a radar unit that tracked falling objects that would be snagged by the Fulton system. I'd tell you more, but then I'd have to kill you.

yeah, I read this:

"A large fairing on the upper fuselage housed the Cook AN/ARD-17 Aerial tracker,
which homed in on Rescue Beacons carried by downed Airmen."

[Inky]

I would really like to have an NASA C-130B to add to my collection of NASA stuff.

I also found four other paint schemes that I thought were nice. They probably wouldn't sell but I liked them.

[airdave]

oooh I like the idea of a NASA herc!
I will have to look into any variant models.

that one in the pic seems to have an extended nose on it.

The Turk and Alaska paint schemes are nice,
but the last two transports are L100s...so I won't be doing those.

[Inky]

that one in the pic seems to have an extended nose on it.

I do believe you are correct, here is a closer picture of it.

[airdave]

yeah, but thats okay...
I can do this one!

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/middle/8/2/5/1181528.jpg

and, I will do the NCAR research C-130 too!
(I think Rick suggested it a long time ago)
It will make a great pair.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/d1/CMc_IB_RF06_C130_02.jpg/800px-CMc_IB_RF06_C130_02.jpg

[Inky]

Here is one more. It is an DC-130A - VX-30 "Bloodhounds". I know the nose is extended but it is nice.

[airdave]

By popular request...
three new Hercs coming!!

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/NEWHERCS.jpg

and yes, they do include some related accessories.
The NASA and NCAR aircraft both have external sensor equipment and so I have designed some bumps and bulges and scoops!
The NCAR herc also has inboard and outboard wing pods as well as wing tip sensors.
The USCG has the vintage Coast Guard livery including different window artwork.
All include the optional Engine Inspection graphics.

[Inky]

They look real good Dave. Now I just have to wait till the first of the month.

[airdave]

UPDATE

LC-130 USN-USMC Kit

Thanks to Wanni, for bringing this to my attention...
a part error in the Kit.

Please refer to the LC-130 Kit Announcement (http://www.papermodelers.com/forum/kit-announcements/15118-lc-130-ski-hercules-c-130-airdave.html)for this important information.

[airdave]

2 new Canadian Hercs added to the collection.
Available at ecardmodels.com HERE (http://www.ecardmodels.com/)

More info on the Kits HERE (http://www.papermodelers.com/forum/kit-announcements/15119-canadian-hercs-c-130-hercules-airdave.html)

[Hudsonduster]

Dave, I just purchased AZRAEL off ECards, and then searched up this thread for a little homework; and it's been a most entertaining dinner read indeed! The many prime-source contributions (Yogi's come to mind immediately but there're many others) are a delight, and a good example of real historical critical discussion the way we should be having it--none of this "MY PhD can whip YOUR PhD" stuff (particularly since there're darn few PhDs on hobby blogs).

And, as a guy who himself has started out more than one simple little project only to have it turn into all manner of weird, I perfectly understand how this has morphed into the wonderful assortment of subjects it has; and I applaud, and thank you.

--And I'm graciously NOT gonna tell the Cambodia-era story of the "Blond Russian Giant" and risk starting you up again!

'Duster

[airdave]

Do ya think the engines are very powerful on a Herc?


HWiZBfkXseE

[richkat]

And without RATO units......COOL.......Rich

[herky]

big request for an israeli airforce c130.entebbecolour scheme would be a bonus

[airdave]

just the tricolour camo
or the actual plane that did the entebbe raid?

I would need to know the details (numbers) on the herc that did the entebbe raid.
the paint scheme is recreated, thats no problem.
but what is the actual serial and markings for that plane?

the two photos that I have show the IAF roundel on the side, but thats all.

[amitrahav]

Unfortunately as a new user I cannot post links.

tail reads 4X-FBQ and under the cockpit the number is 420.

www.flickr.com/photos/government_press_office/7597299416

[eagleclaw4935]

Im gona got out on a limb and request a real oddball C-130.How about this the C-130 E special ops spectre bird used by the 1st SOW at Hurlburt Field ,FL.This bird also had Fulton recovery.

[airdave]

amitrahav...thats all I need!

eagleclaw...what C-130E?
do you mean a MC-130E or an AC-130E?

...
MC-130E "Combat Talon I"
8th SOS/1st SOW, tail code "??", Hurlburt Field, FL, USA

Serial Nos. 64-0551, 0559, 0562, 0568


...sorry, but the MC-130E kinda reminds me of Stimpy

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/070608-F-5350S-030.jpg

[Retired_for_now]

Dave,
"Stimpy" that you have above is an MC-130H Talon II. The MC-130E Talon I had two very different noses - the Fulton nose of the Clamp birds
176152

and a more normal nose on the non-Fulton Yanks. Definitive Talon book is Jerry Thigpen's Praetorian Starship from AU Press (Google it, it's a free download from Air University Press).
Yogi

[airdave]

so, you mean theres a "Ren"?

[airdave]

well...I did ask specifically what bird we be talkin' 'bout Kingfish.

[herky]

just the tricolour camo
or the actual plane that did the entebbe raid?

I would need to know the details (numbers) on the herc that did the entebbe raid.
the paint scheme is recreated, thats no problem.
but what is the actual serial and markings for that plane?

the two photos that I have show the IAF roundel on the side, but thats all.
i would have settled for a plane in just the cammo of the time of raid but i see someone have provided actual aircraft details.

[herky]

adds to your list a rnzaf herc of 4o squadron but in the old white and silver scheme not the cammo:)

[airdave]

why not do an aircraft with some significance?
that makes it more interesting for me.

adds to your list a rnzaf herc of 4o squadron but in the old white and silver scheme not the cammo:)lol, I don't know what this means.
whats a "mzaf"? and 4o?
c'mon guys...better info than this and I can consider them.
and why do I have to do all the searching for pictures?

I know, I know...'cause I'm the one getting paid. yeah yeah yeah

[sparky00]

How about C-130A II 60528 sigint bird shot down by Soviets in 1958?

[airdave]

listen...I will start the (slow) work on the Israeli Herc.
But you need to keep in mind that right now I am finishing up the new B-24 Lady be Good.
And then I may do a couple more Libs.

I'd also like to get more done on my P-47 updates.

All this while I am still working on the Centurion Tank!

So, its not really open season for Hercs yet.
I love the suggestions...but I would appreciate a little more info to get me started.
I can't do every Herc that is asked for
...to be honest, the Hercs are not the biggest sellers (mainly because they are such a large kit).

If you want me to consider a version, then do a little research
...find me some pics and info on that particular version
...and post that for me to refer back to, when I finally get around to doing the Hercs.

[herky]

why not do an aircraft with some significance?
that makes it more interesting for me.

lol, I don't know what this means.
whats a "mzaf"? and 4o?
c'mon guys...better info than this and I can consider them.
and why do I have to do all the searching for pictures?

I know, I know...'cause I'm the one getting paid. yeah yeah yeah
rnzaf =royal new zealand airforce.40=40 sqn.their only herk squadron:)

[herky]

photo of mentioned scheme is on my profile:cool:

[Vermin_King]

photo of mentioned scheme is on my profile:cool:

That's a wee bit small. Is there a larger version of the pic?

[airdave]

photo of mentioned scheme is on my profile:cool:


yeah...I think that is a bit small LOL



...
NZ New Zealand....ah, sorry
well, as I said...a little more than that is needed please.
front, back, sides, top, bottom?
markings? serial? stuff like that?

anything helps.

[herky]

havve sent a better picture to cutandfold page as couldnt get it to load on here
herky:)

[herky]

as a mad herky fan the one model i would love to see is a herkybird modelled in same scale and fashion as alan roses dc3,that would be awesome

[airdave]

havve sent a better picture to cutandfold page as couldnt get it to load on here
herky:)


I got the photo! thanks
Unfortunately, that is a Flight Sim mockup.
...I want to see real photos of real planes.
And I need more angles.
One photo does not do it for me.

When I research for a model I collect an entire folder of images showing
all the necessary details for that particular model. Obviously I don't need to
see more photos of Hercs in general. But I do need to see Tail logos in
detail or how a stripe lines up with the cockpit window or what font is used
in a particular nameplate.
I also need to know things like the measurement of Roundels and where
exactly they are positioned on wings and fuselages.
I also collect information...codes, serial numbers and details on the aircraft
that might be important when producing the final model.

All I am saying is, the more info provided to me, the more chance you have
of convincing me to produce that version and the faster it will get done.


as a mad herky fan the one model i would love to see is a herkybird modelled in same scale and fashion as alan roses dc3,that would be awesome

And that is something I want to do.
But unfortunately that is a project way down the list of "most important" projects.

[herky]

will dig through all my photos of these aircraft and give you all the info i have.:)

[herky]

dave here is photo of rnzaf scheme as mention.aircraft numberss were 7001-7005.i will provide photo of squadron crest as per rudder.this phto is from book"Mighty Hercules" The first four decades by lindsay peacock.page 29 if you have it in your library.i also have a complete set of 1;72 scale decals from the esci?? plastic kit which i can scan and send you.
regards
herky

[airdave]

For small reference pics like that, I can usually get some good shots on the web
or from airliners.net.
I don't recommend scanning your book pages and posting them here.

I am interested in closeup photos of things like the squadron crest.

I would like to take a look at those decals.
I never use any decal artwork, but I sometimes like
to see how another artist may have rendered something.

[herky]

For small reference pics like that, I can usually get some good shots on the web
or from airliners.net.
I don't recommend scanning your book pages and posting them here.

I am interested in closeup photos of things like the squadron crest.

I would like to take a look at those decals.
I never use any decal artwork, but I sometimes like
to see how another artist may have rendered something.
ok will sort those out for you.thanx

[herky]

here is squadron patch

[herky]

here is squadron patch for 40sqn rnzaf

[airdave]

just send me the stuff to my email
I'll collect it and refer to it later (when i get around to looking at the model)

[airdave]

Aug 29 Herc Update and IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT!

Working on a couple of new Hercs at the moment...
the Entebbe Israel AF C-130
and I'll be following up with the New Zealand AF version.
I think I also have a couple of older requests...I'll look into those too.

During the process of laying out the camouflage pattern for the Entebbe version
I pulled out my old VietNam AC-130 kits to help line up some of the parts.
(The Arbitrator and Ghost Rider both have an upper fuselage camo paint scheme)

Thats when I spotted a glaring problem within those two kits.
(They are basically the same model, with most of the same parts.)

At some point during an after-initial-release update, I lost the camo paint scheme
on one of the parts. It looks like I got lazy...while making an adjustment to Parts 28 R and 28L.
The parts are mirrored copies...except for the paint scheme.
I probably made the fix to Part 28R then mirrored the part to fix 28L
not thinking about the paint scheme!

So anyone who has the AC-130 The Arbitrator or Ghost Rider Gunship models
will have Pages 25 and 26 that look like this:

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/Hercules/oldparts.jpg

and the parts should look like this:

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/Hercules/newparts.jpg


So, I have repaired the model.
(Thank you to Inky for not throwing away the original prototype kit! ...because I did! And this helped me make the necessary repairs)

On a side not, I have also updated the Cover pages and added an extra Instruction page with some handy diagrams of the forward Landing Gear.

The newly updated version has been sent to the store.
If you bought the model originally from ecardmodels, you can ask for the replacement download.
Make sure to chuck out the old version since it has a significant error!

If you got the model from me, on one of my Compilation CDs, then you will need to contact me and I will send you a download link where you can
get the replacement kit.

If you got the model anywhere else...tough luck brutha! you got a pirate copy!!

(I'll repost this info in the related threads)

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/Hercules/ac130-ghostridercover.jpg

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/Hercules/ac130-arbitrator-cover.jpg

[herky]

eagerly awaiting these two hercs.

[airdave]

which Hercs? these two?...the Viet Nam Hercs?
These are already available.

or did you mean the Israeli and New Zealand Hercs?

Entebbe paint scheme is becoming very frustrating!
lol
I hate camos!

Very difficult to get all the layers in place and all the design lined up across separate parts.

[herky]

which Hercs? these two?...the Viet Nam Hercs?
These are already available.

or did you mean the Israeli and New Zealand Hercs?

Entebbe paint scheme is becoming very frustrating!
lol
I hate camos!

Very difficult to get all the layers in place and all the design lined up across separate parts.

meant israeli and rnzaf hercs

[airdave]

yes?....

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/Hercules/entebbepartssample.jpg

[YankeeBoy]

By all means!

[Inky]

UMM YES!!!!! Looks great, I like it.

[airdave]

should be in the shop very soon!

[airdave]

should be in the shop now!


http://www.papermodelers.com/forum/kit-announcements/25821-1-48-lockheed-c-130-hercules-iaf-entebbe-raid.html#post378195

[herky]

bought it .looks a great build

[JohnO]

Dave,
Been working in Fat Albert but having some troubles. I notice the wing cut outs are not printed on my model (from prize package)any chance of emailing a version of that portion I could trace to get correct placement?
Also my bad but I have been using Cannon 45lb photo paper and in large scale it oilcans to much. What weight stock are you using on your builds?
Vintagemodeler

[airdave]

The wing cutouts?
..not sure what you mean by this.
When I say "wing cutout", I am usually referring to wing shaped holes in the
sides of the fuselage, that a wing assembly might pass through (as in my
B24 models)...but the Hercules wing assembly sits on top of the fuselage.
You cut the marked slot for the cross spars and drop the wing in.
(Then you finish the wing wing installation with the front and side fairings.)

If you are referring to a different problem, can you show me photos?
I'll do my best to help.

I generally use 65lb cardstock...plain white.
(I probably used 110lb card for the mid-fuselage sections on my AC-130 build)
I love Wausau cardstocks, but I also use the sale stuff from Michaels.

What is "oil-canning"?
I rarely work with "Photo" papers since they crack and crease easily,
and glue doesn't stick to the glossy surfaces very well.
Some people swear by glossy papers and more power to them!
I don't know how 45lb photo compares to 65lb card, but I'm sure it doesn't
bend, flex and curve as nicely.

Tip for the Hercules...follow my suggestion for order of fuselage assembly.
Assemble the fuselage sections and as you go, insert formers into already connected sections.
Trim the formers down to a easy fit...they don't need to be tight.
They only need to help form the fuselage shape.
I have made sure there is enough internals to keep up the overall strength.

[herky]

Dave,
Been working in Fat Albert but having some troubles. I notice the wing cut outs are not printed on my model (from prize package)any chance of emailing a version of that portion I could trace to get correct placement?
Also my bad but I have been using Cannon 45lb photo paper and in large scale it oilcans to much. What weight stock are you using on your builds?
Vintagemodeler

just a guess but if you are building fat albert from daves repaint of the thai paperwork model then the whole construction of wings and body formers is different from the hercs that he has designed himself.his are a far superior construction method. i have both his fat albert repaint and israeli herc which i got from ecards and they are two totally different construction methods in my veiw:)

[airdave]

Vintagemodeler has my redesigned Hercules (in the Fat Albert livery)

herky - do you have the old, old repainted Nobi version of Fat Albert?
It was replaced at ecardmodels with my redesigned model.
There are some major differences in the assembly.
Both kits work, but one is newer and different.

Email me and let me know when you bought it.

[herky]

Vintagemodeler has my redesigned Hercules (in the Fat Albert livery)

herky - do you have the old, old repainted Nobi version of Fat Albert?
It was replaced at ecardmodels with my redesigned model.
There are some major differences in the assembly.
Both kits work, but one is newer and different.

Email me and let me know when you bought it.

yeap thats the one i bought off ecards ages ago.its not the same construction as your redesigned models.i will check on ecard and let you know date of purchase

[airdave]

If you have started construction then please continue with it.
Its not a beginners model, so it takes a little patience.
It builds up nice...just different than my redesigned version.

But...if you want the updated version, just let me know (email)
and I will forward it to you.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/674/FA_big_build_4.jpg

[JohnO]

Thanks Dave, I was looking ahead and it looked like there was a cut out for the wing where the fuselage appeared to lap over the wing at the trailing edge. Now that I have finished the wing structure and cut out part 28 I see how it all fits. Sorry for the confusion on my part.
I have been using 45lb Cannon Matte Photo Paper for some time. It is great on smaller models, no problem on gluing or with cracking.It bends, folds,and flexes just fine. I use it because it prints the colors more vividly.(I'll take a photo and send you to see difference. It is recommended on the Cannon Paper Crafts site-check it out as there are lots of really good free models.
By "oil caning" I mean that the paper deforms, like an oil can or a beer can if you press or stress it to much. Heavier paper resists this. I have 65 and 110 paper also but it just not as vivid when I print it. I guessed wrong this time.

[airdave]

oh wow, look at that colour!
I will have to try some that paper myself.

keep going and keep us informed.

[JohnO]

I have been buying mine at Staples for about $10. for 50 sheets but they often have it on sale for $5. for 50 sheets.

[ashevilleangler]

John, I've been using Royal Brites brochure stock which is also about 45lb. If I want to build a larger model I usually laminate it to 65" stock. That prevents the "oil- canning" problem.

Curt

[JohnO]

Good idea Curt, I thot about laminating but never tried it with the photo paper-next one. Thanks

[herky]

If you have started construction then please continue with it.
Its not a beginners model, so it takes a little patience.
It builds up nice...just different than my redesigned version.

But...if you want the updated version, just let me know (email)
and I will forward it to you.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/674/FA_big_build_4.jpg
big thanx for your redesign version.i will build the nobi repaint version at some stage but<and dont get bigheaded>your herk designs are far superior to that one in my humble opion