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View Full Version : F16 Flyer - repaint needs immediate test build


airdave
07-07-2009, 09:32 PM
Just finished this F16 by Mike Bauer repaint.
The big "flyer"...doesn't look like a particularly difficult build, just large.
I think its about 30" long?

Its not super accurate in its form, because its built as a flyer rather than a scale model.

Anyway, I've got a new (semi-realistic) USAF Thunderbirds version ready to go
and I need to see if everything lines up properly (with the paint scheme).
I'd also like to add one or two photos to the print files.

I'm moving on to my next two repaints...
anyone like to tackle this build for me?

airdave
07-09-2009, 09:42 PM
aww c'mon....nobody?

someone must be bored with building Tanks and Subs?
a nice airplane change will do ya good!

airdave
07-10-2009, 09:11 AM
I printed out a 50% reduced version of these files
and I am attempting a (kinda slow) build at half size.

I'm not worried about getting it perfect,
but it is allowing me to judge the alignment of all the graphics (in the repaint)

I would still love to find someone to test build the full size plane
and give me some feedback
AND some photos of the completed model.

pleeeeeeeeeeeeez?

I'll be your bestest friend forever?

zot
07-10-2009, 09:31 AM
Dave,
I've sent a PM your way.
Scott

cgutzmer
07-10-2009, 04:58 PM
Do you have an artists rendition for us? :)
Chris

airdave
07-10-2009, 05:41 PM
of what? the repaint?
lol
artists rendition....I guess I started something there, didn't I?

why yes I do
but because this model is quite a bit different in form from an actual F16
I thought it best to go for an actual photo this time.

anyway, heres the cover page

cgutzmer
07-11-2009, 05:41 AM
Dont include that with the finished model.... people WILL get angry if there is a differnce between the model and what is represented on the cover - use some beta build pics ;)
Chris

airdave
07-11-2009, 06:48 AM
Beta Build Progress

hey Scott, regarding the Nose Cone - Intake issue

I am trying to work on this 50% version myself
but I am just too busy with other things
and I hate making models smaller, they become so difficult! lol

anyway, my progress might help with yours, Scott?

is it possible you have the intake upside down?
When personally fitting it, I noticed two things:
there is a slight angle to the forward edge that shows in Bauers photos.
I also found that lining up the paper seams (fuselage - intake)

Mine ended up a little crookes, but the overall fit was okay.
See the photo

(FYI) there should be a slight off colour to the white (on the aircraft). I used actual photos for all the "skin" of the aircraft to create some texture to the aircraft. Every printer will probably print this slightly different. As long as the whole plane matches, this shouldn't be a big issue.

airdave
07-11-2009, 06:53 AM
Dont include that with the finished model.... people WILL get angry if there is a differnce between the model and what is represented on the cover - use some beta build pics ;)
Chris



but because this model is quite a bit different in form from an actual F16
I thought it best to go for an actual photo this time.
Dave


LOL
I agree Chris....the present cover page was for Beta Build purpose only
( Chris is so busy, he doesn't read my threads! LOL)


although, FYI, that cover page F16 image has been heavily modify and distorted to almost the exact same shape as Bauers model...and the paint scheme is exact. So it is as close as you could get, without actually having a photo.

airdave
07-11-2009, 06:56 AM
Scott, I also noticed the "flags" on the fuselage are positioned too high, and maybe too far forward...and might interfere with the canopy position.

Ignore this...place your canopy wherever it needs to go.
I will move the flags to the rear more, and down (closer to the "Team Number #2")

zot
07-11-2009, 07:40 AM
Dave,
I tried it with the seam down but according to the original build photos and instructional drawings the seam should be on top of the intake. As soon as I can figure out where I set the camera down last night I'll post some pics of my build so far.

airdave
07-11-2009, 07:51 AM
I can't find where it says anything about the seam,
but I do agree the seam does not appear to be visible in that photo
(so I agree with you on that point)

but there is an obvious angle to the leading edge of the intake
and it looks to me like it should go seam side down/

But thats why I asked for another opinion!...
I bow to your judgement on this issue and will change the colour!

is there any way, just for the purpose of a better photograph
that you can assemble the seam side down, with the graphics matching?

airdave
07-11-2009, 07:57 AM
hold the presses!! lol

I think I am right...you may have the intake upside down.

The angle on the leading edge is bothering me...it needs to go a certain way.
And so I took another look through the instructs, and...

there is a reference to the seam being down, away from the fuselage
(tell me what you think)

zot
07-11-2009, 08:37 AM
Dave,
I read that to mean the small mark at the canter of part NC3 as pointed to in the first pic. I've also tried to show the rear of the nose cone bulkhead with the seamed tabs similar to the bulkhead illustration above. I don't know, I could be mistaken but it just went together better for me this way. Look at my build pics and see what you think.

zot
07-11-2009, 08:43 AM
One more pic of the other side.

airdave
07-11-2009, 08:45 AM
OH YEAH!!!

regardless of MY misunderstanding, your way makes more sense
and looks better!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

continue good sir!!

I will digitally modify the photos when your done
and fix the intake colouring.

(as long as theres nothing else I screwed up! lol)

cgutzmer
07-11-2009, 07:43 PM
ahhhh the need for beta builds :) this looks great guys! Mike is in transit back home so he will prolly pop in when he can :)
Chris

zot
07-11-2009, 08:57 PM
Dave,
Got a little more done this afternoon. Alignment looks good at this point. You might want to allow for a lttle more outline on the canopy. It's hard to tell that you have score lines for the various glue tabs, although in a later build I might just cut them off anyway.

airdave
07-11-2009, 09:50 PM
one of my problems here, was the fact that I found the instructions a little perplexing.
some pieces just didn't seem to fit right (in my mind)
and that made it difficult to judge some areas of the graphics.

thats one reason I needed someone else to try and build it!

we have already seen the confusion over the intake cowling.
(for some reason I couldn't get a good handle on the instructs)

anyway, it appears you have made one of the same mistakes as me!
...something I just didn't understand, until now.

the assembled cockpit/nose cone section is supposed to slide over the fuselage
and right back, almost to the wings.

you will notice a dotted line, at the front top center of the fuselage (part F2).
I believe NC2 (Nosecone collar) slides onto the fuselage far enough to cover this dotted line.

[there are some panel details on the leading end of the fuselage,
that I added,
because the panel was very bare
and I didn't understand that it would get covered by the nosecone!]

So now I see, that I have to make an adjustment to the underside graphics in this regard.

see the picture, before and after
I have adjusted your picture and moved the nosecone assembly back to where
I think it should be.

airdave
07-11-2009, 09:57 PM
but this is all coming together nicely!
thanks for your help

the only other thing you will have an issue with
is the side pods, which cover a small section of the wings.

the blue underside graphic needs to be adjusted on these pods
(I just didn't know how much until I saw an assembled model)

so when you get to that part, I will be able to make an adjustment.

other than the confusion with the instructs,'what do you think of the model?


(oh...and yes...I have a little tweaking to do on the canopy part)

zot
07-12-2009, 07:32 AM
Yes, I see what you mean. Fortunately the nosecone is just sitting on the fuselage for the photos so I can adjust it as needed.
I'm not sure how I would rate this kit yet. I'll get back to you on that one. So far my impressions are favorable. I have noticed that ther should be four parts for #NC7...two laminated together per side...but only two are provided in the kit. This will require printing the first page twice to build the model once. Maybe once Mike learns about it he will add the needed parts.

I have come across another problem related to the repaint. Where you tipped the rear corner of the elevators, the internal laminate as cut sticks out past the new edge. This elevator printed out pretty dark too. Noticably darker than the one for the other side.

airdave
07-12-2009, 07:41 AM
okay
fixed and fixed!

I'm adjusting some other stuff now

between your help
and the half built miniature I have
I have been able to modify everything so far
and whatever else i thought needed fixing.

before you go any further, would you like the updated files?

your side pods are wrong...I have updated those too

(my photos show the updated areas...but not the actual updates)

zot
07-12-2009, 08:08 AM
Sure, send the updated files my way. I'll get back to the build later...gotta mow the lawn.

cgutzmer
07-13-2009, 06:10 PM
Dave,
Can you fit the missing parts anywhere on the pages? (the one that has to be laminated...
Thanks!
Chris

zot
07-13-2009, 07:18 PM
Dave,
Just wanted to let you know that I started again with the new files. I've been cutting, gluing, and laminating, but don't have any new pics yet. Hoefully I'll have some tomorrow.

airdave
07-13-2009, 08:18 PM
once we get the test build completed
(and verified there are no more graphic adjustments)
I'll add whatever missing parts are needed...no problem.
(even if I have to rearrange things a little)

...it looks to me, like Mike's original idea, was for the builder to print the first page of the model multiple times. He even states this, on the first page.

His reasoning is that the nosecone will get damaged during flight and you will need many replacement nosecones. Printing the first page more than once, not only gives you more nosecones, it also gives you more of part NC7.

I tend to agree that NC7 should be included the correct number of times
and the nosecone parts should be on one page for repeat printing if necessary.

maybe I should adjust the model pages?

zot
07-14-2009, 05:46 AM
...it looks to me, like Mike's original idea, was for the builder to print the first page of the model multiple times. He even states this, on the first page.

His reasoning is that the nosecone will get damaged during flight and you will need many replacement nosecones. Printing the first page more than once, not only gives you more nosecones, it also gives you more of part NC7.


Dave,
The instructions say that part NC7 should be glued to the nosecone but not to the wings, so it is included as part of the disposable nosecone. If you use the two parts from the second sheet on the first model then you'll have to print two more nosecone sheets to build the second one. Adjusting the pages to add two additional #NC7s would save a lot of material over the long run. It doesn't look like that's going to be an easy task. Those first two pages are pretty packed as it is. The same issue lies with the original model as well. Welcome to Betaland...the semi-almost happiest place om earth. :D

airdave
07-14-2009, 06:05 AM
yeah, if hes stipulating that you glue the parts on, then you cant reuse them...
which means you have to print 2 sheets for every one nosecone.

so, the answer is to add the extra parts...and maybe I will have to rearrange the pages a bit.

I'll wait for Chris' okay (or comments in this regard).

zot
07-14-2009, 06:46 AM
Dave,
Since space is already tight on the first two pages, maybe adding an additional page of say six to eight extra NC7s. That would give the builder extras for future nosecone replacements. Just a thought.

cgutzmer
07-14-2009, 06:48 AM
please do add the extra parts - maybe split them out to their own page - nosecone should be on its own page for reprinting. Can you adjust the original as well? Mike is having issues and wont be online too often....
Thanks!
Chris

zot
07-14-2009, 06:57 AM
Chris,
I created a page with six additional NC7s using copies from the original kit. I'll send it your way. I don't know how to add it to the end of the PDF though.

Scott

airdave
07-14-2009, 06:59 AM
of course, no problem
I will add the extra parts.

altering the original kit may prove a little trickier.

when I convert the PDF files, to bitmaps for editing
they lose a lot of line quality (become pixelated)
This isn't really a big issue with repaints.

but I don't want to affect the line quality of his original model.

His zipped package includes 5 photos and two PDF files (instructs and parts)
Could we just add an update page with the extra parts?
(and any other notes or updates that are necessary?)


update...actually I just looked in Acrobat, and it looks like i can add pages to the original PDF document. so i will add some extra parts, on an extra page!...but it will all be part of the same PDF file.

zot
07-14-2009, 07:02 AM
Dave,
I just sent Chris a PDF of extra NC7s. I was hoping to save you a little time, They are from the original kit. I'll send them your way in a few minutes.

Scott

airdave
07-14-2009, 07:27 AM
done

extra page is added (between pages 1 and 2) with the three extra NC7 parts

I will do the same with the repaint package

cgutzmer
07-15-2009, 04:36 AM
thanks man :)

zot
07-15-2009, 08:34 PM
Dave,
Just so you don't think that I was slacking off I have some progress pictures. This is fuselage #3...don't ask about #2...the memories are still too painful. :'( Hopefully I can get these parts together tomorrow. Alignment on the new parts looks good but the stripes on the wingtips don't quite line up at the rear. Same with stripes on the elevators although they are not as bad.

cgutzmer
07-16-2009, 05:52 AM
Looks great! Sorry to hear about the other fuselage though :(
Chris

airdave
07-16-2009, 06:07 AM
LOL slacking off!
I got too many projects on the go myself! lol

yes it does look good.

I notice the nosecone is not sitting far enough on the fuselage (like before)
but I'm assuming its just sitting there on top for photo purposes.

Its odd about the wing tip stripes not lining up...I just looked at my "mini test build" and all the stripes line up pretty good. Nothing looks as far off as in your photo. Now I do admit my eyes are not the best anymore(lol) and with my sloppy building skills its quite possible that I lucked out and lined everything up by accident...

I think its probably an area that we can live with?....its very difficult to see both sides at the same time, so it might not be real noticeable.

However, I will take some measurements in the file and compare stripe positions and see if I can improve on it!

zot
07-16-2009, 06:23 AM
Well, you have to consider that the larger the scale, the larger the differences look. I personally wouldn't worry about the stripe issue on a model such as this one. I just don't know how many people would share my opinion. If this were a "true to scale" display model and not designed as a working, flyable model then I would feel that the alignment would be necessary.
And yes, the nosecone is just sitting there. The fit is too tight to keep taking it on and off. Otherwise I'll be working on fuselage #4. Hints of what happened to #2.

airdave
07-16-2009, 08:41 AM
Well, you have to consider that the larger the scale, the larger the differences look. I personally wouldn't worry about the stripe issue on a model such as this one. I just don't know how many people would share my opinion. If this were a "true to scale" display model and not designed as a working, flyable model then I would feel that the alignment would be necessary.
And yes, the nosecone is just sitting there. The fit is too tight to keep taking it on and off. Otherwise I'll be working on fuselage #4. Hints of what happened to #2.


yup, you are right!
I will see if I can make an easy fix to the stripes, otherwise I won't waste too much time.

OMG...whats happening? Fuselage #4?? LOL
I know the first two were my fault...but whats happening?

zot
07-16-2009, 08:28 PM
Here it is. Other than having part NC2 on backwards ( the part with the flags and number...it's designed to go the other way ) it came out pretty good. I missed that on the first build too. ::) There's still a slight transition problem on the markings from the nosecone to the fuselage. Nothing too drastic though.
The biggest issue for me with the rest of the build came when I was cutting out the slots for the wings and such. The instructions say to cut them after the fuselage is assembled. I can barely cut straight on a flat surface with a ruler. The repaint did make some of this even more difficult. The black dotted cut lines were really washed out against the dark blue. I could barely make them out. Making them a lighter color would really help out.

airdave
07-16-2009, 08:36 PM
looks great!
I think you did a fine job.

I'll see what I can do about those cut lines...they aren't the best even on the original.
But I will agree, that they would be better cut before rolling and assembling the fuselage.

anyway, I will take your pics and use them to produce a new cover page.

and then we should be ready to go!!
thanks again Scott for your assistance!

zot
07-16-2009, 09:15 PM
Dave,
You'll need to rotate your blue stripe for part NC2 180 degrees. The red formation lights and gun blister should be at the front edge of the part. since the flags are centered on the part they should clear the canopy either way. i guess you would want to shift the numbers to the new "forward" as well. Sorry that i missed it before today. Also, glued on the way I have it, the slots for the NC7 tabs will be too far forward.

airdave
07-16-2009, 09:31 PM
right...understood!

I added those orange lights
and somehow during one of the mods
I reversed the stripes
and then that led to everything else going on backwards.
...the lights were still in their original position! lol

anyway, fixed now!
thanks once again

zot
07-16-2009, 09:48 PM
Glad to help.

zot
07-17-2009, 05:33 AM
Dave,
One last thing that I just thought about. You might color one of the trim strips on page 3 with some of the blue to match those areas on the model. I had to cut some color from one of the extra pages that I had to cover some areas on the bottom.

cgutzmer
07-17-2009, 05:45 AM
I will be putting this up for sale sometime today.... I will leave it disabled until I hear back on this issue though!
Thanks for doing this guys!
Chris

airdave
07-17-2009, 05:48 AM
just one?
or how about I just add a couple of blue ones?

update...
I added 3 blue strips
see the pic
this should satisfy

Chris, this doesn't change anything for you...go ahead and release the model.
I will send you a new pdf link shortly.
(files are uploading right now!)

cgutzmer
07-17-2009, 05:57 AM
Whatever you think is best dave :)

can I get the original files so I can send them to mike in case he wants to make a large version too? You would get a portion of those sales as well if he goes that route since you did the repaint.
Thanks!
Chris

airdave
07-17-2009, 06:01 AM
This is a large version...?...I haven't resized it.

How big is the model Scott?
I think Mike's original measurement was around 28" long?

zot
07-17-2009, 06:10 AM
It measures out at 26". It prints the same size as the original.
That should be more than enough blue for the bottom. I just saw the cover over at papermodelers. It looks good. Could I persuade you to send me a copy of it?

mbauer
01-02-2011, 05:26 PM
Hi Dave & Scott,

This is the first I've seen this thread.

Was traveling and dealing with issues the summer you built this.

Part NC7 was not designed to be laminated, however, if laminating it helps, do it!

The intake is the hardest thing on this model. I put the little tick marks to help align the parts to stop the twist.

The intake/nosecone seams go as Scott did them.

Great build Scott, you have supplied the first photos of anyone building it! Thank you for taking the time to build and photo it.

Dave, great graphics!

Just so you know, from July 09 thru Jan 2010 I had no computer, just the library stop for 1-hour a day. I didn't have time to check on PM at all during that time.

Incredible surprise to see this thread.

Glad you figured it all out! Hopefully you had fun flying it!

I do have a newer version of the instructions showing an actual construction of the nosecone/intake broken down into steps.

Best regards,
Mike Bauer

airdave
01-02-2011, 05:58 PM
Mike, this was actually one of the carry over threads from ecardmodels old forum.
All of the threads from that group have been migrated and integrated into PM.

This was of course the first test build of the repainted F-16...my first Bauer repaint!

We have gone bigger and better since that time (eh Mike?)
and theres more to come!

chiawatkom
01-31-2011, 04:47 PM
I am waiting to see your work, Mr. Dave.

airdave
01-31-2011, 04:59 PM
This is an old thread Jack...the Thunderbirds F16 was finished quite some time ago,
but it is now awaiting a 'refit"

I would just like to update the packaging and bring it in line with all our other "paperstomprocket" models.

You can see them all at www.paperstomprockets.com (http://www.paperstomprockets.com)