lancer525
11-11-2009, 08:51 AM
To the community:
For some time now, I have been asking rather generic and neutral questions regarding specific aspects of ship and general model design. If it seems like I have been secretive or evasive, I apologize. It is not my intent to "hide" what I am doing, but rather is a self-protection mechanism, and an attempt to defend the modeling community from whatever deficiencies I might have as a designer.
I have this fear (someone once said it was irrational, but that's not the way I see it) about saying "I am going to design and build a Super-Duper Widget!" and then something happening to either stop the project, or I reach a point where my skills or abilities are insufficient to the task, and it will come to a screeching halt, thereby letting the community down. I don't want to say I am doing something, and then not deliver the goods. I'm sure that everyone can understand.
Having said that, a friend in the papermodeling community, one who not only knows what this project is, but has helped with it to date, has suggested that I break my silence and bring the project out into the open. I think he's right. I also ask for volunteers for beta building, because this is going to be a project of literally monumental proportions.
[Drum roll]
I am currently engaged in the design of plans for the Montana class battleships, in 1/200 scale.
[/Drum roll]
The model is somewhere in the vicinity of 55-60 inches in length, and will present a late design version of the class that was working its way through the Navy Department just before its cancellation in July 1943. In late 1942 and early 1943 that the Naval Weapons Center was working with the 18”/47 Mark II Naval Rifle with the intent of finding a way to include them in the design of the ship. The intent was for the enlarged ship to carry four turrets, each containing four of the Mark II rifles. This gun, and the addition of a sixth ship in the class were included in memoranda circulated in the design bureau in the few days immediately prior to the cancellation of the class. Significant weight issues necessitated a reduction of overall speed from the mid-30s knot range to the high 20s knot speed range. Many of the publicly available documents and images of the class show ships with the 4 x 3 - 16"/54 Mark VII rifle, but this version just looks like a glorified Iowa to me, and doesn't have the character or appeal that other design studies of this class have.
Also, given the increase in size needed to carry the heavier guns, passage through the Panama Canal was removed as a capability. This fact is likely what spurred the addition of the sixth ship, so that there would be two vessels in each fleet division (Atlantic, Pacific, Asiatic) thereby obviating the need for transiting the ships through the canal. The sixth ship was never given a designator or a name, so in honor of my home state, I have taken the liberty of choosing that name. The ships will be:
USS Montana - BB67
USS Ohio - BB68
USS Maine - BB69
USS New Hampshire - BB70
USS Louisiana - BB71
USS Georgia - BB72
Another interesting specification is that the ships were ordered to be capable of surviving five direct hits from their own guns, thereby making them implicitly capable of engaging and winning any encounter with the Yamato class ships.
Given that all of these specifications were rendered moot by the cancellation, the actual model itself will not present what might have been an “actual” ship, but a “what if” design study that may or may not have even worked. There are many issues that have been debated regarding the hull form and weight problems caused by the inclusion of significantly larger guns, but since this is, in essence, a “fantasy model” comparable in willing suspension of disbelief to a science-fiction model, I think the average builder out there can forgive this designer from taking some liberties with the overall design of the ship. At least, I hope so. I am also toying with one other alternate design possibility that carries 4 x 2 - 18”/54 Mk III turrets, instead of 4 x 4 – 18”47 Mk II turrets.
Many of the details of the class are speculative, although several sets of design plans exist showing multiple configurations of the vessel, including two versions that show either 12 x 2 – 5”/54 or 10 x 2 – 5”/54 secondary batteries. Other secondary armament included substantial increases in AA batteries, with 40 Bofors 40mm and 56 Oerlikon 20mm mounts. The ships also would have carried three or four Curtiss Kingfisher seaplanes for fire-control spotting and reconnaissance duties.
All in all, I think that this will fill a place in the pantheon of Naval vessels in the paper modeling world, and I sincerely hope that no one will be disappointed with the design or kit, should it get that far. I will be posting images as I go along in the design process, along with many questions on design and modeling techniques with an eye toward making this kit as good as I can. It is my hope to make the model kit as easy to build as possible, for builders with a moderate skill level.
I will state at this point that I sincerely hope that I don’t disappoint anyone, and that my own interests in the appearance of the design doesn’t fall too far outside what could actually have been. My line of reasoning is, the ships never actually existed, so what might have actually been, isn’t as critical as if one were building one that did actually exist, so that “artistic license” or “designer’s prerogative” can influence the final model. I am also going to deliver a warning to the ship modelers of the papermodeling community: I fully intend to keep asking questions and begging for help until I understand something enough to press forward with the design and construction of the model.
I would like to publicly thank eibwarrior, Airdave, and APA-168 for their invaluable help and assistance so far in putting this project on track, and for their advice, help, and design skill in contributing to parts of the model that have already been completed. This isn’t one giant project to my way of thinking. It is a series of small components that will eventually all be put together. That’s the only way I can be somewhat sure that I won’t become discouraged to the point I’ll stop the project entirely. I sincerely hope that I have what it takes to finish it to the point of it becoming a contribution to the community.
I'd like to ask if anyone would be interested in beta building future components of the model. If so, please let me know.
For some time now, I have been asking rather generic and neutral questions regarding specific aspects of ship and general model design. If it seems like I have been secretive or evasive, I apologize. It is not my intent to "hide" what I am doing, but rather is a self-protection mechanism, and an attempt to defend the modeling community from whatever deficiencies I might have as a designer.
I have this fear (someone once said it was irrational, but that's not the way I see it) about saying "I am going to design and build a Super-Duper Widget!" and then something happening to either stop the project, or I reach a point where my skills or abilities are insufficient to the task, and it will come to a screeching halt, thereby letting the community down. I don't want to say I am doing something, and then not deliver the goods. I'm sure that everyone can understand.
Having said that, a friend in the papermodeling community, one who not only knows what this project is, but has helped with it to date, has suggested that I break my silence and bring the project out into the open. I think he's right. I also ask for volunteers for beta building, because this is going to be a project of literally monumental proportions.
[Drum roll]
I am currently engaged in the design of plans for the Montana class battleships, in 1/200 scale.
[/Drum roll]
The model is somewhere in the vicinity of 55-60 inches in length, and will present a late design version of the class that was working its way through the Navy Department just before its cancellation in July 1943. In late 1942 and early 1943 that the Naval Weapons Center was working with the 18”/47 Mark II Naval Rifle with the intent of finding a way to include them in the design of the ship. The intent was for the enlarged ship to carry four turrets, each containing four of the Mark II rifles. This gun, and the addition of a sixth ship in the class were included in memoranda circulated in the design bureau in the few days immediately prior to the cancellation of the class. Significant weight issues necessitated a reduction of overall speed from the mid-30s knot range to the high 20s knot speed range. Many of the publicly available documents and images of the class show ships with the 4 x 3 - 16"/54 Mark VII rifle, but this version just looks like a glorified Iowa to me, and doesn't have the character or appeal that other design studies of this class have.
Also, given the increase in size needed to carry the heavier guns, passage through the Panama Canal was removed as a capability. This fact is likely what spurred the addition of the sixth ship, so that there would be two vessels in each fleet division (Atlantic, Pacific, Asiatic) thereby obviating the need for transiting the ships through the canal. The sixth ship was never given a designator or a name, so in honor of my home state, I have taken the liberty of choosing that name. The ships will be:
USS Montana - BB67
USS Ohio - BB68
USS Maine - BB69
USS New Hampshire - BB70
USS Louisiana - BB71
USS Georgia - BB72
Another interesting specification is that the ships were ordered to be capable of surviving five direct hits from their own guns, thereby making them implicitly capable of engaging and winning any encounter with the Yamato class ships.
Given that all of these specifications were rendered moot by the cancellation, the actual model itself will not present what might have been an “actual” ship, but a “what if” design study that may or may not have even worked. There are many issues that have been debated regarding the hull form and weight problems caused by the inclusion of significantly larger guns, but since this is, in essence, a “fantasy model” comparable in willing suspension of disbelief to a science-fiction model, I think the average builder out there can forgive this designer from taking some liberties with the overall design of the ship. At least, I hope so. I am also toying with one other alternate design possibility that carries 4 x 2 - 18”/54 Mk III turrets, instead of 4 x 4 – 18”47 Mk II turrets.
Many of the details of the class are speculative, although several sets of design plans exist showing multiple configurations of the vessel, including two versions that show either 12 x 2 – 5”/54 or 10 x 2 – 5”/54 secondary batteries. Other secondary armament included substantial increases in AA batteries, with 40 Bofors 40mm and 56 Oerlikon 20mm mounts. The ships also would have carried three or four Curtiss Kingfisher seaplanes for fire-control spotting and reconnaissance duties.
All in all, I think that this will fill a place in the pantheon of Naval vessels in the paper modeling world, and I sincerely hope that no one will be disappointed with the design or kit, should it get that far. I will be posting images as I go along in the design process, along with many questions on design and modeling techniques with an eye toward making this kit as good as I can. It is my hope to make the model kit as easy to build as possible, for builders with a moderate skill level.
I will state at this point that I sincerely hope that I don’t disappoint anyone, and that my own interests in the appearance of the design doesn’t fall too far outside what could actually have been. My line of reasoning is, the ships never actually existed, so what might have actually been, isn’t as critical as if one were building one that did actually exist, so that “artistic license” or “designer’s prerogative” can influence the final model. I am also going to deliver a warning to the ship modelers of the papermodeling community: I fully intend to keep asking questions and begging for help until I understand something enough to press forward with the design and construction of the model.
I would like to publicly thank eibwarrior, Airdave, and APA-168 for their invaluable help and assistance so far in putting this project on track, and for their advice, help, and design skill in contributing to parts of the model that have already been completed. This isn’t one giant project to my way of thinking. It is a series of small components that will eventually all be put together. That’s the only way I can be somewhat sure that I won’t become discouraged to the point I’ll stop the project entirely. I sincerely hope that I have what it takes to finish it to the point of it becoming a contribution to the community.
I'd like to ask if anyone would be interested in beta building future components of the model. If so, please let me know.