USS Tyler, timberclad in 1/250 scale

[ct ertz]

I have been working on this project on and off for some time now. The 180 foot long gunboat served throughout the war, and was protected from small arms fire and field artillery by a thick addition of timber siding. I have man of the details worked out but I have a question, what color. Was the wood left raw, or was it painted. And if painted, what color? Any help? Any suggestions?
CT

[Paperwarrior]

Corey,

I don't believe it was left "natural". It is much too dark for that. I'm convinced (could be wrong) that it was painted. I was noticing a couple of the pictures it is passing one of the City-class Union Ironclads. They are near the same color. I wonder if it wasn't a "camouflage" paint job to make it look as if it was ironclad.

Jeff

[ct ertz]

Thank! That is a good point. Also, I think the war time color for the USS Hartford, also wooden, was black and gray. Gray may indeed be a good color...
CT

[Royaloakmin]

Corey, I believe she was painted black.

[ct ertz]

Thanks Fred. Black hull, natural decks, and white bulwarks and masts?
CT

[Royaloakmin]

Yes. Masts, maybe natural wood? Remember she was a Navy ship, and would have been painted accordingly. I am sure I have seen references that she was in black. I am glad to see you doing her.

[Knife]

Looks like a fine target for my CSS Arkansas :). Were other wooden ships painted in that era? I know most ocean going vessels where painted black, like the USS Kearsarge and CSS Alabama. But these vessels were designed for long term use, while the river fleet was quickly assembled and were thought to only be needed for a short time. I would think that the parts of the ship that were painted before the conversion would have been left painted, but the new timber used for armor would have been left in it's natural color or at most covered with tar for waterproofing. But then again, l like the idea of paint as camoflage to represent an ironclad. This was used by the Union forces to spoof the defenders of Vicksburg when they sent a raft painted up as an ironclad, complete with log cannons and smudge pots in the fake smokestacks, floating down the Mississippi. So the Union forces definitely had the resources and idea to use this rouse.

[ct ertz]

Still working on this. It is interesting to not that some of the other temberclads had the space between the added thick bulwarks decked over, but the Tyler had a large open gun deck. Also, apperently the gun ports could be used as gangways. The use of small boat howitzers ob fiels carrages seems universal. Just some observations...

[Don Boose]

The timberclads were interesting-looking vessels and I'm glad to see you working on this one, Corey.

Don

[Kazziga]

Corey, I guess that you should get "The Timberclads in the Civil War" (Amazon.com: The Timberclads in the Civil War (9780786435784): Myron J., Jr. Smith: Books (http://www.amazon.com/Timberclads-Civil-War-Myron-J/dp/078643578X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1293171469&sr=8-1)). I've heard that this is a great book (and also and expensive one ;-) )

[Knife]

I like the fact that at Amazon the used versions of the book start at $25 more than the new copies. Maybe I should buy a bunch of new books and turn around and sell them back as used for instant profits. Kind of like the business model from my last employer: Step 1 - Aquire lots of airplanes and crews. Step 2 - (undefined). Step 3 - Profit!

[ct ertz]

OK, now that my old computer has come back to life (even as my latest one is down do to power/charger issues) I have been able to work on this timberclad again. The digital is coming along fine, and should make an acceptable paper model. I still have not decided on the color yet.

[ct ertz]

Here is what I got so far. the number of ports are from the photographs of the period. i do not believe all of these ports were for guns, or at any the ship had far mor ports then guns. It appears that these ports were used for passing lines through as well as for gangways. The upper ports would have been for the smallest guns including (presumibly) small boat howitzers as well as the 24 pounders. the big ports on the lower deck would have been for the big guns.

[jmr248]

CT
In visiting Vicksburg one of the guides at the National Park mentioned that most vessels were painted a dark color so as to be unobserved at night when they ran the guns on the bluff at Vicksburg. With that in mind, black would seem the natural color for the Tyler if it was ever in the Viskburg arena. I know that the Tyler was on the TN river early in the war but not aware if she moved to the MS river.
Anyway, I will also add this to my stash.
Thanks for your efforts.
Joe

[ct ertz]

Thanks Joe. Black or charcoal gray do seam likely.

[Kazziga]

Corey, it's good to see that you're back at work on that one.

[ct ertz]

Thanks Kaz,
I have this on and its sister ship, as well as one Union Ram that I started so long ago that I am finally able to get done. I also have the USS Hartford started.

[ct ertz]

With the help of a friend who sent me additional info, and my new computer, here is a ne start on the Tyler.
CT

[JR.]

Awesome can't wait to get it!

[charleswlkr54]

Happens I am at the Pima Community College libriary, and they have a book in the reference section"Warships of the Civil War" by Paul H Silverstone (Naval Intitute Press 1989) has some information of the Tyler has one photograph, and data for the ship Was built in Cincinatti 1857, aquired by the navy on June 5, 1861. Tonnage: 420 tons D. 575 tons, demendions 180' x45'4" x6'
machinery sidewheels, 2 HP engines (22"x8') 4 boilers, 8 knots
Armament: 6 8"/63, 1 32-pdr/43 Sept 62 total 6 8"/63 3- 30-pdr R(ifes?), 1 12-pdr SB-March 64 aaded 4 24-pdr.
book also gives service history which seems to be on the Missippi and Tennesse rivers, ship was sold Aug 17 1965, thip was originally known as the A.O. Tyler. Home this helps!

[charleswlkr54]

I'd try to download a copy of the page but unfortunate;y I do not have tyhe facilities!

[ct ertz]

The gun layout is interesting, but it seams that on this ship the type, number, and caliber of guns was in constant flux. So I am just going to go pretty generic.

[treadhead1952]

Hi CT,

Have you checked out the Naval Historic Site page on the ship?

USN Ships--USS Tyler (1861-1865) (http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/sh-usn/usnsh-t/tyler.htm)

It has a few drawings of the Tyler, of course, being drawings, they may not be of much help, artistic license being what it is.

[ct ertz]

OK, I redesigned the bottom hull for a better look and now it is ready to go. I added a bunch of deck clutter and the rudder as well. I still need the guns and the pilot house details.
CT

[JR.]

All I can say is AWESOME :D

[jmr248]

CT
This looks great. Amazing work.
Looking forward to purchasing a copy when you have it completed.
Joe

[ct ertz]

Starting over folks...again. I made a huge mistake. Luckily, it was pointed out to me before I got going on the pieces parts. You see, I confused the hull width and the deck width. My model is about 20 feet too narrow! Somehow, I got the other dimensions right. So I will be starting over again, but at least this time I know what I want it to look like!
CT

[OhioMike]

Looking forward to it...have always been a big fan of the timberclads!

[jmr248]

CT
Since you are heading into the timberclad waters, have you given any thought to attempting to model the Pook Turtles. They were used on the MS River and there is some really good photograhic evidence of waht they looked like and they would make great additions to your fleet. All you would need is one to reprersent the entire class
Joe

[ct ertz]

I have a who slew of river class warships in the works. For starters, I am working on the USS Vindicator, but I would really like to get this monster done. This is the third time I have restarted the Tyler! But, I want a good model.
CT

[sporticus]

Haha, I did a search for the Tyler and ended up back here! It appears all Googles roads lead to CT Ertz!!

Wish this one was ready to build! I could do with making one for next weeks game!

[sporticus]

Hi Corey. Not a lot of activity on here from you recently Corey. Hope all is well with you. Hopefully it's not any serious health or life issues keeping you away.

I am thinking about having a go at the Lexington next. The imminent (?) release of the Cairo makes the 'need' for the Tyler and Lexington more relevant. Hope you can get back to designing soon.

I have finished (except for a flag) my Thomas Freeborn model. I just need to find time to add a flag and do a photo session of that 'landing party' vignette I promised. Should get it done over weekend and will post on build thread!

[sporticus]

I found this photo of a model which I thought may be of interest/help at the following website Army Navy Exhibit - Fort Donelson National Battlefield (http://www.nps.gov/fodo/photosmultimedia/Army-Navy-Exhibit.htm)

[sporticus]

Corey, I guess that you should get "The Timberclads in the Civil War" (Amazon.com: The Timberclads in the Civil War (9780786435784): Myron J., Jr. Smith: Books (http://www.amazon.com/Timberclads-Civil-War-Myron-J/dp/078643578X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1293171469&sr=8-1)). I've heard that this is a great book (and also and expensive one ;-) )

You can buy this as an ebook through google books now for £23.88 The Timberclads in the Civil War: The Lexington, Conestoga, and Tyler on the ... - Myron J. Smith - Google Books (http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=p35glH_2z-AC&source=gbs_slider_cls_metadata_7_mylibrary&hl=en)

They also have the same authors book on the Tinclads for £16.72
Tinclads in the Civil War: Union Light-Draught Gunboat Operations on Western ... - Myron J. Smith - Google Books (http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=lmWLppXvSVoC&source=gbs_similarbooks)

Still not cheap, but a lot cheaper than the printed one!

[sporticus]

Just popping back to the colour (or color for our vowel saving American cousins) I found this bit in the above mentioned book.

"For starters, when the contractor's people departed the boats, the supply of paint left aboard was exhausted and the work was not finished. The boats were to be painted black on the outside, but the Lexington was only half-raven coloured. None were painted inside. Hopefully, some paint would be sent down from Cincinnati and those men already shipped or soon to be recieved would get a taste of what was a traditional sailor job - painting ship."

Looking at the Tyler photos she does appear to be painted. Not sure how you would get this black wood effect. As for my own Lexington model I;m not sure whether I should redo her. When it says half done...which half...and was it finished soon after?

[ct ertz]

Good questions! My guess is that the ships, being wood, would have been under constant maintenance. I guess you can leave it as is, an "early version", and do a recolor in black/charcoal to do an average look. I know during that period a lot of US ships had the black hull look. Must have been something approaching standard!

CT

[Kazziga]

Guys, I've bought both "The Timberclads in the Civil War" and "Tinclads in the Civil War", so if you need anything, let me know.

[NimitzFan]

If you look at paintings of ships from this period, you will find that the hulls of sailing ships were always uniformly black, whether of merchant or military origin. The color is generally justified because of the use of tar in the standing rigging, especially in the ratlines - the big ladder-like array of ropes that supported each mast. As it heated up, the tar would ooze out and discolor the ship's side. So there wasn't much point in painting in any other color. Ships didn't become more colorful until they began to use iron hulls and steel rigging in the 1870's.

On the black hull, some owners painted some areas of distinctive trim. More commonly, sailing ships had a broad white stripe with black checks down the side to indicate gun ports. This stripe was called the "Nelson Stripe" and was initially intended to deter pirates and privateers. In later years it was just custom. Until the end of sail, all sailing US Warships of this period carried the stripe, although not the black checks. (Opening the actual gun ports produced the same effect as the painted checks.)

But, even if they carried full set of masts and sails, steam-powered US Warships were always uniformly black. Remember "The Black Ships" of Commodore Perry that visited Japan? That color was because it was too hard to clean the ship's sides following coaling; an all-hands evolution that was very dirty. When steaming steadily, coaling was something done every week to ten days, so the decision to eliminate the "Nelson Stripe" was quite logical.

The inland steamers mostly didn't burn coal; like the trains that they competed with, they burned firewood. Hence they could be painted and merchant vessels often were quite gaily painted. Of course, that paint or stored paint cans could contribute to fires, and there were many tragedies as a result.

The US Navy provided officers to guide the design and construction of all the inland warships, even the army ones. I suspect that they would have preferred to follow the navy standard and paint the ships black. But that isn't uniform. There are some photographs of "tinclads" that I've seen that imply that although the hull and casemate were painted black, the "Upper Deck" and the "Texas" was left as it was before conversion. Since even a tinclad was one of the largest moving things around, and yet it moved at most 8 or 9knots, I suspect that any question of camouflage was irrelevant.

In any case, covering the ship's hull with black paint was only one option; covering it with tar was another, although not in hot climates. On the other hand, I'm not sure how much tar would be available to an inland source. It was mainly used for rigging and to a lessor extent to enhance water-tight caulking.

[Greg 77]

I could not find the ship at ecardmodeler. The tyler was painted black.:confused: