Mike Bauer's F-16 Flyer again! new test build needed

[airdave]

Mike and I are in the process of updating the Thunderbirds F-16 Flyer I did a while back.

I am also updating the original F-16 Flying Model.

The new version has an "all-metal" finish with standard USAF markings.
And will be included in the same kit with the Thunderbird version!

Two kits in one!
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t6/outlawzairbrushcom/hobby%20links/paperstomprockets-com/F16CoverMockup-1.jpg

Anyway, I am in need of quick build of the new metal USAF version.
I need a good photo for the cover artwork.

I need a quick build, but its got to be right.
The model is over 24" long when built (about 14 pages of parts)
but I don't care how big you build it.
You are welcome to downscale if you like (not micro! sorry Ray)
...as long as the final photos don't show a background or anything that would give away the scale.

I do want this built very quickly...I have the kit all ready to go,
just need to finish up the cover images.

Pm or (preferably) eMail me and let me know if you are interested.

[airdave]

and I forgot to mention, if anyone purchased the original Thunderbird F16 repaint
and you would like the new "bonus" USAF F16...

just let Chris at ecardmodels know.
He can verify your purchase for me,
and then I will send you the new "bonus" kit.

[Dlazarus6660]

I wonder if this could be converted into a rocket using Estes rocket motors?
I would like to try this but I'm not sure if I could meet your demands.
I guess I'll wait for it to go on sale.

[Zathros]

I wonder if this could be converted into a rocket using Estes rocket motors?
I would like to try this but I'm not sure if I could meet your demands.
I guess I'll wait for it to go on sale.


I don't see why not. Mike gets some awesome height out of these. You just might have to sleeve the Estes motor and allow the motor to eject after it's spent, for the model to glide down.


Dave, Your artwork is awesome, as usual!

[airdave]

Mike gets "awesome height" out of his "stomp rockets.

This particular model is a "Flyer"
not actually a "stomp rocket"

We would have to hear from Mike, but I think this "flyer" was adapted from a "stomprocket' design originally.

Either way, it does have a straight cylindrical fuselage that would lend itself
to a stomprocket style pressure tube...or even adapted for a "rocket motor".

[Zathros]

Sorry Dave, I misread it. It is an awesome package nevertheless.

[mbauer]

I wonder if this could be converted into a rocket using Estes rocket motors?
I would like to try this but I'm not sure if I could meet your demands.
I guess I'll wait for it to go on sale.
No, don't do it. The wings have no internal structure, they would fold and the model will do all kinds of eratic flight while under thrust.

This model was designed for hand launch glider flight or the compressed air bladder "jet" engines I designed for this.

If you want to try an Estes, I could help design something. I tried the Rapier "jet" engine in an F104.

I put the engine at the rear, the counter weight to balance the model to the proper CG created issues.

To use an Estes, means you need to install the engine at or forward of the CG to keep the total weight down.

If you roll a 3-layer cardstock tube that the engine could slide into, it might not "autoburn" and still allow you to put the Estes near the CG. The exhaust gas from the engine is going to need to "travel" down the tube before existing the model!

This is an airplane model, not a rocket, that means you have to weight it to the CG location to fly properly. It has a NACA 9% symmetrical airfoil for the wing.

My airplane stomp rockets fly because they are only "single" impulse rockets. Once they leave the launch pipe, they start to slow down. Estes would acclerate causing to much pressure loads on the wing. They would need ribs/spars to handle this.

It is possible, but lots of testing needs done!

I have some ideas on how to make it work, just too many other projects right now. The F16 is a poor canidate for Estes, I have some other models that would work better! F16 = Lots of drag and fairly heavy for its size.

If you just have to have the F16 as an Estes, I could work with you for some testing, but feel a couple of other models would work better.

Are you going to use RC for the glide phase?

Best regards,
Mike Bauer

[airdave]

see?...I knew it was something like that.

[Zathros]

Many years ago I made a paper model using an Estes rocket. I made it so the engine was in there just snug. I also used a really low powered Estes engine I mounted two pieces of straw to the fuselage and used welding rod as the launch wire. Took a couple of tries but I was able to get flights and the Estes motor would pop out because nothing was holding it it. I had aluminum tape on the inside of the body of the plane. I got about 5 really good flights before all was lost. The pilot didn't make it of course and there was much collateral damage. The project's cost overruns weree not sustainable and the project was subsequently cancelled. The remains of the craft were sent off to the scrap yards. Due to the nature and immediacy of the project no photographic records exists.

[Dlazarus6660]

No, don't do it. The wings have no internal structure, they would fold and the model will do all kinds of eratic flight while under thrust.

This model was designed for hand launch glider flight or the compressed air bladder "jet" engines I designed for this.

If you want to try an Estes, I could help design something. I tried the Rapier "jet" engine in an F104.

I put the engine at the rear, the counter weight to balance the model to the proper CG created issues.

To use an Estes, means you need to install the engine at or forward of the CG to keep the total weight down.

If you roll a 3-layer cardstock tube that the engine could slide into, it might not "autoburn" and still allow you to put the Estes near the CG. The exhaust gas from the engine is going to need to "travel" down the tube before existing the model!

This is an airplane model, not a rocket, that means you have to weight it to the CG location to fly properly. It has a NACA 9% symmetrical airfoil for the wing.

My airplane stomp rockets fly because they are only "single" impulse rockets. Once they leave the launch pipe, they start to slow down. Estes would acclerate causing to much pressure loads on the wing. They would need ribs/spars to handle this.

It is possible, but lots of testing needs done!

I have some ideas on how to make it work, just too many other projects right now. The F16 is a poor canidate for Estes, I have some other models that would work better! F16 = Lots of drag and fairly heavy for its size.

If you just have to have the F16 as an Estes, I could work with you for some testing, but feel a couple of other models would work better.

Are you going to use RC for the glide phase?

Best regards,
Mike Bauer

No R/C is planned until I can make it fly safely after being powered to altitude.
My idea is to use rocket components. A body tube for internal structure, paper covered balsa wings and tail surfaces, and a balsa or plastic nose cone.
Besides paper models, mostly aircraft and rockets, I build rockets, both kits and designs of my own.
Here is some of my builds and designs.

[mbauer]

No R/C is planned until I can make it fly safely after being powered to altitude.
My idea is to use rocket components. A body tube for internal structure, paper covered balsa wings and tail surfaces, and a balsa or plastic nose cone.
Besides paper models, mostly aircraft and rockets, I build rockets, both kits and designs of my own.
Here is some of my builds and designs.

I see. I usually just use cardstock spars/ribs. They are heavier than balsa, but they don't break on hard landings. Cardstock for the wing covering makes for really strong wings.

I have a 36" long version of the F16 that has the needed spars/ribs, it is easy to downsize them to this size that Dave is working on.

Kind of curious how your models fly? Did you do any weight and balance on the Navy jet conversion? The wings look like a flat plat airfoil, is this your plan for the F16, or do you want to try the 9% airfoil it has?

Great looking models! Thanks for showing them.

Have messed around with Estes rockets since I was 8-y/o. Doing Stomp Rockets now. Cheaper and lots of experiments can be done safely to show different rocket configurations.

If the F16 is designed/built properly, it could probably handle a D-size engine.

Photos show the 36" F16 RC model that I designed handling a 5lb barbell placed near the root with the wingtips supported by plastic drinking cups.
Also shown is the fuselage crushdown test using the same 5lbs.

Best regards,
Mike Bauer

[Dlazarus6660]

Kind of curious how your models fly? Did you do any weight and balance on the Navy jet conversion? The wings look like a flat plat airfoil, is this your plan for the F16, or do you want to try the 9% airfoil it has?

Great looking models! Thanks for showing them.

Have messed around with Estes rockets since I was 8-y/o. Doing Stomp Rockets now. Cheaper and lots of experiments can be done safely to show different rocket configurations.

If the F16 is designed/built properly, it could probably handle a D-size engine.

Photos show the 36" F16 RC model that I designed handling a 5lb barbell placed near the root with the wingtips supported by plastic drinking cups.
Also shown is the fuselage crushdown test using the same 5lbs.

Best regards,
Mike Bauer[/QUOTE]

Here is the link that might answer your questions.

A-7 Corsair II Rocket - The Rocketry Forum (http://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?t=9948)

Not sure about the airfoil, flat airfoils work fine for most model aircraft. Check out this ducted fan model r/c jet made from flat foam.

F-16 Build Thread - RC Groups (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=380552)

Some of these planes start out as pusher prop jets. There ia an entire section devoted to this type of jet.

Pusher Prop Jet Models - RC Groups (http://www.rcgroups.com/pusher-prop-jet-models-237/)

The build techniques may give you some ideas trading weight for strength

You do very good work yourself and Thank you for your compliments.

Regards,
Daniel

[mbauer]

Hi Daniel,

Like the videos, looks like the A7 is a great rocket. Nice and straight!

Some of my models have been converted to depron. Fuselage was normal cardstock, while the wings were 3mm depron. Combination seemed to work allright.

Best regards,
Mike Bauer

[airdave]

Great!...someone has graciously offered to build the metal version F-16 for me.

Can't wait to see it and get photos to complete the cover.
Once that is done, I will reissue this model.

Watch for an announcement.