Try out my first kit! [Archive]

EricGoedkoop

03-13-2011, 12:31 PM

Well, I've finally gone and done it.

After several years of thinking about it, a handful of aborted attempts and about ten months of steady work, I've finished the first of what I hope will be a series of kits. The completed model looks something like this:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5180/5521168179_bba1b1c624_b.jpg

This is the 1913 Dyott Monoplane, a singular and elegant little machine with a short but eventful career.

The kit is 1/33 scale and includes a fully detailed cockpit, laminated propellor (following Leif Ohlsson's technique) and spoked wheels. The model may be finished in either the exhibition scheme shown here or in R.N.A.S. livery as the aeroplane appeared after being taken over by the Admiralty in the early stages of WWI. The kit contains approximately 400 parts and is to be printed on a variety of media including white, grey, light brown and dark brown cardstock, regular printer paper and silver metallic cardstock (such as the now-elusive Red River Silver Paper). Some additional but common materials are required. It includes ten pages of detailed construction diagrams and some background information on the subject.

Here are samples of the instructions and parts pages:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5136/5522930609_12ed5877fc_b.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5137/5523524466_76c99c6296_b.jpg

I think it's a pretty nice piece of work - if I may say so - and I know that I can build it, but I'd like somebody else to have a go at the thing and see what they can make of it. If anyone is interested in trying it out, let me know and I'll send it via an online file transfer service. Be aware that this will be a fairly challenging build - there are LOTS of little tiny fiddly bits. I'm in no hurry and have no deadline. I don't require a build thread, although it would probably be helpful should any issues arise. I'd prefer a builder who has some experience with highly-detailed card models, if only for the fact that there are a few tricky areas and I'd like an honest appraisal.

More pictures here (http://www.flickr.com/photos/60539047@N04/sets/72157626253616282/), so you know what you're getting into.

I'm happy to answer any questions. Thanks in advance,

Eric

goodduck

03-13-2011, 12:50 PM

WOW! That is a one beautiful bird! I am not in to WWI aircraft but that is beautiful! Great instructions too! Impressive! One more great designer for me to look up to. You not going to have problem finding people that will do your bird justice. A lot of great modelers in here will.

Wilfried

03-13-2011, 02:04 PM

Hello Eric,

what a fine early bird you've brought into life! I love these 'flying sewing machines'! I hope that you start a wide range of those planes?

With lovely greetings
the Wilfried

gerry staggs

03-13-2011, 02:09 PM

This is a beautiful plane with instructions I wish I could get for every model that I make. Very well done
Gerry

Thomas Meek

03-13-2011, 02:20 PM

A truly beautiful design and a beautiful build!
Everything is top notch and, from what you have posted, the instructions themselves are a great piece of work.

B-Manic

03-13-2011, 07:20 PM

Wow Eric that is beautiful, all of your fantastic techniques in one model.

peter taft

03-13-2011, 07:33 PM

Outstanding DESIGN - BUILD and QUALITY, you sir; have a great skill in all areas. The instructions look top dollar too, give yourself a huge pat on the back - you deserve it !;):)

Zathros

03-13-2011, 08:08 PM

A really beautiful model. It looks perfect. Those instructions are first rate. The bar is raised high on this one.

Art Deco

03-13-2011, 08:30 PM

Wow, that is a gorgeous model! The model - and the assembly instructions - are both works of art! Nice photography as well. Bravo!!

(...) the first of what I hope will be a series of kits.
You are certainly off to a smashing start!

cgutzmer

03-14-2011, 05:41 AM

Looks AWESOME! great first model and cant wait to see what else you have in store for us :)
Chris

Leif Ohlsson

03-14-2011, 08:44 AM

I have had reason to go through this model when it was near its completion, and I can only say that I hold it to be the finest and most endearing kit of paper model that I've ever possessed. Eric really has taken every care to make it a complete kit, in every sense.

The instructions are exceptionally good, with very pedagogical, step-by-step illustrations. The special translation of paper weights to include European standards is most helpful. Without them us Europeans would have been totally helpless. And I happen to know for a fact that Eric has taken extra care (including a total reworking of all the pages on the verge of publishing) to make it universally printable, on both A4 and Letter pages, inkjet and lasers.

The only question mark which remains now (and I'll gladly leave it be for the moment) is how to get 100-weight monofilament silk thread... That particular measuring system is still beyond me, and I'll have to settle for the thinnest silk thread in the sewing-material shop I frequent.

The general instructions for some special techniques are very good. Eric's way of making thin tubes, and filling out cylinder shaped parts with expanding spirals of paper strips reminds me fondly of the methods used by Robert Kaelin in the 90's. He, too, made models which depended on the natural colour of the papers used, although in his case it was a forced technique, since colour printers had hardly been invented and he was restricted to B & W printing only.

The extra section with material from Flight magazine (Global Flight pdf archive) is what really clinches it for me. That is so good, and Eric has done such a good thing in selecting this particular aircraft for modeling, if nothing else than for this archival material.

Then there is the graphic profile which is exquisitely conformed to the era of the original model. The kit in fact reads as well as many a book for good-night literature!

I studied the propellor part with particular interest, of course, and it was great. Eric has made a couple of alterations in the method, which I find entirely appropriate and an improvement, I'm sure.

Another thing which caught my interest, and which I will have to study more carefully, is the spoked wheels methodology. I'm sure that, too, will become a standard, and I would dearly like to see it practised in a detailed build report, which goes for the rest of Eric's model as well, of course, since it includes so many interesting and seldomly practised methods.

Mentioning standards, it is customary to say that someone's efforts are setting a new standard. I'm not so sure that such a saying is entirely applicable to Eric's first kit. In fact, it will probably be a good while until someone produces an equally complete kit. It will remain unsurpassed for a long while. Particularly since Eric in all probability will need some considerable time to produce his next kit. And what's the hurry anyway - this one should keep all of us occupied for quite some time.

You should be very content with this Eric! Please let the rest of the community in on it as soon as possible. You have already shown that it is eminently buildable.

Leif

Zathros

03-14-2011, 12:40 PM

Have you decided how you will release this model? It is superb. There are many superb models and modelers, and your work, by all appearances, seems have put you in the company of many fine builders and even smaller group of builders of fine models, who are also designers. I imagine demand will be great for aircraft of the genre.

outersketcher

03-14-2011, 04:06 PM

Nice work. Clean and thoughtful. The instruction page is a breath of fresh air in the paper modeling community.

In particular, the ruler scale along the sides, the center punch holes in the circles, the paper stock directions and the lamination and thickness instructions.

All of which are missing from my own design instructions... dangitdangitdangit.

Clearly, a pro-quality model... and I want one. :)

siurano

03-14-2011, 05:03 PM

WOW! I love those types of planes. Impressive skills and I repeat everything others have said. :)

EricGoedkoop

03-14-2011, 06:07 PM

Thanks, all, for your kind words. I hope the kit lives up to your expectations!

I intend to do more of these - I've got a whole list of subjects picked out - but I doubt I'll ever be able to finish more than one or two a year.

I think I'd like to wait to release this until I see what happens when somebody else tries to build it - and more on that in a moment. I don't want anyone buying this kit and then getting frustrated when it turns out I did a rotten job explaining myself. And since I didn't take a single picture during the build, it'll no doubt be helpful to see some steps along the way.

Regarding demand for kits of aircraft of this era, I rather doubt that there will ever be any great interest in the Pioneers. There are very, very few kits of pre-1914 aeroplanes currently available. It's a shame, too, and if my own work illuminates a few of the men and machines of that time then I've done some good. In that spirit, here's the introductory page of the kit giving a brief history of the subject:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5058/5527279791_b8c5d7d715_b.jpg

Thanks again for all the comments and interest. I'd also like to thank Leif especially for his help and encouragement, not to mention his propellors!

EricGoedkoop

03-14-2011, 06:35 PM

And now, down to business.

Thomas Meek and ufhc have both offered to beta build. I'll be sending the kit out to them presently. I'm excited (maybe a little nervous - a little), to have two builds; since the model can be finished in two versions perhaps we'll get to see them both.

A few thoughts for you, gentlemen, before beginning:

Please do not feel any pressure to complete the model quickly. I'm in no hurry, and this thing is a lot of work. Take your time. Have some fun.

You'll need to acquire a few items just slightly outside the norm. There's a list included with the kit and most of it shouldn't be hard to find. Silver metallic cardstock might be a challenge: I use Red River Silver Paper, but it's currently unavailable from the manufacturer. I found a few alternate sources a while back (see here (http://www.papermodelers.com/forum/174079-post14.html)), but it's anybody's guess if they still have stock. Another option would be to treat non-inkjet metallic silver cardstock with Golden Digital Grounds (http://www.goldenpaints.com/mixmoremedia/digiground.php), although I haven't tried it and can't say how well it works. Either way, you want a bright, shiny metallic surface - don't use matte or pearlescent silver paper.

100wt filament silk thread is available from Red Rock Threads (http://www.redrockthreads.com/yli-thread/yli-thread-embroidery-silk.asp). I highly recommend it for rigging and wheel spokes.

Very small diameter stainless steel wire is available from SmallParts (http://www.smallparts.com/). This might come in handy for some of the short and fiddly bracing wires.

Please, please, PLEASE check the parts pages for proper size before you cut anything out. That's what the scales on the edges of the pages are for. Printer distortion is easy enough to fix, but if you don't - and I'm speaking from experience here - you'll drive yourself crazy trying to figure out why things don't fit.

And just a head's up - the undercarriage is a real bugger to get together and the pilot's seat is no picnic, either. Just sayin'.

I'm looking forward to seeing both your work. I might suggest we keep everything in this thread for convenience's sake. Don't hesitate to ask any questions you might have.

Thanks again. The kits will be going out shortly!

EricGoedkoop

03-14-2011, 07:11 PM

Another thing which caught my interest, and which I will have to study more carefully, is the spoked wheels methodology. I'm sure that, too, will become a standard, and I would dearly like to see it practised in a detailed build report

Ah, the wheels . . . .

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5057/5521173673_1c2542d8a3_b.jpg

As some of you know, spoked wheels have been a little white whale of mine for a long, long time. I think I finally nailed it. It's the one area of the instructions that I think might be a little cloudy, but the method itself is suprisingly simple and fairly foolproof. The trick was the construction of the rims. Even that, although it's tedious and requires care, isn't really very difficult.

EricGoedkoop

03-14-2011, 08:24 PM

Particularly since Eric in all probability will need some considerable time to produce his next kit.

No kidding!

It's going to be a ripper, though. . . .

Alcides

03-14-2011, 09:07 PM

Wow !!! Eric I'm speechless maybe I've to say it in Spanish: Increible. Maravilloso.

I've to acquire the kit just for the instructions, they're like a manual.Great work.

Peter Epps

03-14-2011, 11:39 PM

Kudos to you. It looks like a beautiful kit and a fine model. Make more please!
Peter

Claus

03-15-2011, 04:01 AM

Just one word: Great! The pre-WW1 planes are my special interest. I already built some of them and this one seems to be a masterpiece. I hope it will be available soon (where?).

Don Boose

03-15-2011, 05:27 AM

This is a most exciting project, Eric. I fear that it is far beyond my own model building capabilities, but I take great pleasure in the skill, care, and love you have put into the project; the beauty of the airplane and the model; and the preservation of a lovely piece of aviation history.

I look forward to seeing the results of the beta build and I will purchase one of these so that I can enjoy reading over the instructions, looking at the parts, and, perhaps, even venturing to try to build it some day.

Congratulations on seeing through this exceptionally demanding and challenging project of historical research, design, engineering, craft, and art.

Don

mldixon

03-15-2011, 08:03 AM

Wow!!
I am not a fan of WWI planes but I am a fan of well designed models. I am looking forward to purchasing your kit and building this amazing piece of work. Nice job Eric...

rmks2000

03-15-2011, 08:50 AM

I would buy the kit for the instructions alone - they are outstanding, and highlight some great build techniques. However, the model looks like it may be beyond my capabilities though, especially the fiddly wing ribs. But unless I was planning on creating sag between the ribs in the wing, I wouldn't need to put all the wing ribs in place. Or, I could use a different sag technique altogether, such as one that doesn't require ribs. That's what's great about paper models - with a little thought, one can build it as simply or as detailed as one desires, using techniques that work for the individual. Still, I'd probably try to build it as Eric intended, just because of the challenge it would present to me.

JohnReid

03-15-2011, 11:14 AM

Wow Eric ! I would love to give this a go ! would also make a lovely piece for a diorama.:)

Ashrunner

03-15-2011, 11:26 AM

I'll echo the praise of all the others and say, simply, gorgeous!

I've been a fan of your scratch built models for years, and glad to see you're producing kits of these little beauties.

I'm wondering if the Hanriot racer is planned for the series...8v) I finished the white design of it a while back, but haven't been able to build it. This aeroplane has similarities to the Hanriot, as did most birds of the era.

Gil

03-15-2011, 12:21 PM

Hi Eric,

Beautiful creation and congratulations on a quintessential model of this period.

Bravo!

Bien Cordialement, +Gil

Thomas Meek

03-15-2011, 02:25 PM

Hi, Eric;

I downloaded the files this morning, and am very, very impressed with both the detail of the model and the thouroughness of the instructions.

I like your use of colored card stock to avoid problems of edge color, etc, but this leads me to my first question:

What brand of card stock do you recommend? What did you use for the prototype? How close a match is possible with the color of the Royal Navy Air Service version?

I spent a little time this afternoon visiting my usual sources of paper, and found some close matches but nothing that was "right on" regarding color, texture and workability.

I do not yet know which version I will be building; I have given ufhc first choice since I believe he was the first to accept your offer, but there is much to be done before the choice is required.

I must say that this is a deliciously frightening project to begin, but also remind myself that I do my best work when challenged, and my very best work when the challenge is strong. In building the prototype and writing the instructions for this model you have done all the really hard work. I can only hope that the copy I build will do justice to your masterpiece.

With Great Respect,
Thomas

Thomas Meek

03-15-2011, 05:08 PM

Hello, Eric;
I went through the instructions and parts sheets again, this time with my glasses on, and see that the components made from the colored paper do not actually need to match anything closely. Made a mistake already and haven't even started to build!

EricGoedkoop

03-15-2011, 05:51 PM

I went through the instructions and parts sheets again, this time with my glasses on, and see that the components made from the colored paper do not actually need to match anything closely.

Quite right - all the green parts are printed. The colored cardstock parts replicate wood, metal, leather and rubber parts of the aeroplane that would have appeared in the natural color of the material.

Made a mistake already and haven't even started to build!No worries - I make tons of 'em!

What brand of card stock do you recommend? What did you use for the prototype?I honestly have no idea. Truth be told, I have an eight-inch high stack of cardstock in a plastic box, all unwrapped and sorted by color. It's probably whatever brand they sell at Michael's that comes in packs of 50 sheets of white or black, and assorted packs of 10 sheets each white, black, grey, tan and brown (almost like they knew what I would do with it . . . . ) Can't remember the name of it for the life of me, but they also sell it at department stores like Meijer.

I do not yet know which version I will be building; I have given ufhc first choice since I believe he was the first to accept your offer, but there is much to be done before the choice is required.Actually, you were first - but who's counting?

EricGoedkoop

03-15-2011, 06:02 PM

I'm wondering if the Hanriot racer is planned for the series...8v)

Ash, you know that's one of my all-time favorites! Some of you will no doubt recall that I very nearly completed a model of it a few years ago. The problem with it is that it just doesn't sit right. Like the early Nieuports that it was patterned after, the Hanriot-Pagny design didn't have a tailskid. It rested on the wheels and the back ends of the undercarriage skids. To achieve the right balance, a model either has to be weighted in the nose or have an extremely lightweight backside, and on top of that I found that skids made from laminated cardstock are simply not rigid enough to support the model without bending until the tail is on the ground. It's a problem I'd like to solve one day.

Dented Rick

03-15-2011, 06:05 PM

.......and on top of that I found that skids made from laminated cardstock are simply not rigid enough to support the model without bending until the tail is on the ground. It's a problem I'd like to solve one day.

Dipping the skids in glue that dries clear, and laying them on non-stick wax paper til they dry should work. they would definetly be strong enough to support the tail, especially if you have a wee bit of weight in the nose.

Thomas Meek

03-15-2011, 07:28 PM

Eric;
I'll use my favorite "Cougar" 65lb. card stock from Domtar for most of the parts and whatever works for the rest.

EricGoedkoop

03-17-2011, 07:38 PM

Well, I used up my monthly dropsend.com quota and sent two more copies of the kit out to Peter Crow and Claus Jambrich. I must say I'm flattered by all the attention! With four able modelers scrutinizing the beast, I'm sure we'll soon catch any mistakes or omissions and be ready for release. I know Leif thinks it's ready now (and he should know - I've been pestering him with this thing since last summer!), but I'll feel better when I know I've been successful at explaining myself on some of the finer points.

There's been some concern about the use of metallic silver cardstock in the design, since the Red River paper is still unavailable and there doesn't seem to be a suitable alternative. I printed the page in question (page 20 of the kit) on grey cardstock and it looks just fine to me. The difference will be most noticeable, of course, in the engine - in addition to not being shiny the cooling fins look much less defined - but overall I don't think using grey instead of silver will affect the finished model enough to worry about. I'll add a note to the instructions about this.

I also noticed while inspecting this page that I've been a little inconsistent with differentiating "cut this out" from "something gets glued here." I'll fix this as well before releasing the kit. I think the beta-builders will figure out what to do, but don't hesitate to ask if you're unsure.

ccoyle

03-17-2011, 08:05 PM

Eric, I missed the beginning of this thread, but let me add some belated adulation. Fantastic model -- skilfully executed. Should be a real winner as a kit.

Cheers!

B-Manic

03-17-2011, 09:38 PM

I hope we get to see the test builds here on paper modelers.

JohnReid

03-18-2011, 04:37 AM

And some "under construction" pics too !:)

Ashrunner

03-18-2011, 11:52 AM

Ash, you know that's one of my all-time favorites! Some of you will no doubt recall that I very nearly completed a model of it a few years ago. The problem with it is that it just doesn't sit right. Like the early Nieuports that it was patterned after, the Hanriot-Pagny design didn't have a tailskid. It rested on the wheels and the back ends of the undercarriage skids. To achieve the right balance, a model either has to be weighted in the nose or have an extremely lightweight backside, and on top of that I found that skids made from laminated cardstock are simply not rigid enough to support the model without bending until the tail is on the ground. It's a problem I'd like to solve one day.

Hummm...I'm going to have to look at my model I did of this one. I don't think I had the aircraft sitting like that...I believe I have it designed to sit on the tail.

Thanks for the added info.

Thomas Meek

03-18-2011, 12:21 PM

Hi, Eric;
I found a package of cardstock which I think will be suitable at Michael's a large craft store here in Fort Wayne. (I think they are a chain.)
The stuff I got is "Recollections" cardstock paper 65lb / 176g/m2, and comes in a package called "Neutral" with a grey, white, cream, dark brown and tan. Ten sheets each.
I've tried cutting, bending and folding the stuff, and think it will be satisfactory.

Have not yet either found or given up on the Metallic Silver paper, so am skipping over the engine for a while, although I am chomping at the bit to get at it.

I have printed pages 14 and 17, and the PDFs print beautifully, the scales along the edges are true. I really like this feature, and wish it were standard on all electronically distributed kits. I also like the fine guide lines. They take the guesswork out of cutting, (inside the line or outside?) Your guide lines are fine enough that I can simply cut along the line to get great accuracy.

The first laminations are drying.

spaceagent-9

03-18-2011, 12:23 PM

thats really good, i can see that you will become a famous paper model designer.
jim

Padre

03-18-2011, 12:52 PM

While the design is awesome, the skill in the build is what really sets it off!!!

EricGoedkoop

03-18-2011, 02:53 PM

Go, Thomas, go!

I found a package of cardstock which I think will be suitable at Michael's a large craft store here in Fort Wayne. (I think they are a chain.)
The stuff I got is "Recollections" cardstock paper 65lb / 176g/m2, and comes in a package called "Neutral" with a grey, white, cream, dark brown and tan. Ten sheets each.

I think that's the exact same I use.

I have printed pages 14 and 17, and the PDFs print beautifully, the scales along the edges are true.

Great! Peter printed a few pages and said the same thing. Maybe I just have a crappy printer . . . . .

Thomas Meek

03-18-2011, 05:19 PM

I had a 25 year career in the field of Graphic Arts, and I will tell you that you should never trust a printer. :)

EricGoedkoop

03-19-2011, 08:51 PM

Gentlemen:

It's been brought to my attention that part 2B2a is wrong. It should be the mirror image of 2B1a, not the same as it.

Score one for beta building!

You guys can just flip 2B2a in Photoshop or whatever, or I can send you a flipped one. Honestly, you can even use the part the way it is with the blank side out. The idea behind printing the framework on the internal fuselage is that it will show through the skin and replicate the look of translucent fabric, but on this particular model the overall dark color nullifies the effect.

Thomas Meek

03-19-2011, 10:21 PM

I just copied 2B2a into Gimp, copied that and flipped it. Printed them and the size is perfect. Thanks for the heads-up. I would have had problems for sure. :)

Thomas Meek

03-19-2011, 10:47 PM

Actually, 2B1b and 2B2b have the same problem, but as they are internal structural pieces, it is easier to just flip the actual pieces. You might want to change them on the final version, though.

Thomas Meek

03-20-2011, 08:36 AM

I don't know how important is having the precise thickness of stock for the framing parts specified to be printed on 65lb stock and laminated to two sheets to a thickness of .030" but I found that if using the Domtar Cougar 65lb card, the thickness of the three layers comes to only .026".

I tried laminating the 65lb printed sheet to a layer of Strathmore Smooth Bristol, a 100lb paperfolowed by a second 65lb sheet and found that the result was exactly .030" as per my antique micrometer.

Don't know how important this level of precision is, but...

Thomas

EricGoedkoop

03-20-2011, 09:36 AM

Four thousandths of an inch? I'd consider that "wiggle room."

Truth be told, I know full well that three layers of 65lb don't quite add up to .030", but everybody likes round numbers and a couple of thousandths one way or the other aren't going to matter.

Note, also, that the colored cardstock parts need to be laminated on cardstock of the same color; a nice white piece of Bristol in the middle would rather defeat the purpose!

EricGoedkoop

03-20-2011, 09:37 AM

Actually, 2B1b and 2B2b have the same problem

Wow - my mind must have been elsewhere that day. Thanks, Thomas.

fadi22

03-21-2011, 06:12 AM

thats a neat model

Alcides

03-21-2011, 07:38 AM

Wow - my mind must have been elsewhere that day. Thanks, Thomas.

Eric don't be harsh on you. You have designed a kit with hundres of parts and it's just natural to make mistakes I've make mistakes making the instructions for a 2 pages kit!!!

Claus

03-21-2011, 03:15 PM

Hi all! Today I printed all the parts (I corrected the wrong parts). I found some silver paper (picture 1). I wonder how it will work. I already used it before, e.g. for the motor of the simple Coanda model (picture 2).

EricGoedkoop

03-21-2011, 04:38 PM

Here we go!

eatcrow2

03-21-2011, 07:45 PM

Might as well start posting here.. Eric was kind enough to let me give this a try, and seeing the quality of the parts and instructions, I feel lucky indeed.. 5 Star rating IMO...
I'm going to be doing the "Royal Naval Air Service" version. Haven't had any luck on the silver paper, but I think I might have a couple of ideas for alternatives..well see as I go.

Here's my start.. photos are a bit yellowish because of the lighting. Gluing up the fuselage frames.
http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss301/eatcrow2/DYOTT/dyott004.jpg
http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss301/eatcrow2/DYOTT/Clipboarda.jpg

rmks2000

03-22-2011, 05:52 AM

Glad to see the build threads underway!

eatcrow2

03-22-2011, 06:01 AM

Next step... Nice fitting parts.... lousy photos.

http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss301/eatcrow2/DYOTT/Clipboardc.jpg

EricGoedkoop

03-22-2011, 04:28 PM

Great start, Peter.

Technically, the top is upside-down; the printed side should face out, not in. It's not going to make a difference though. Carry on.

Don Boose

03-22-2011, 08:20 PM

Excellent start, Peter!

Don

eatcrow2

03-23-2011, 06:38 AM

Great start, Peter.

Technically, the top is upside-down; the printed side should face out, not in. It's not going to make a difference though. Carry on.

I'll probably end up with the wings on upside down!! Anyway, on to the next part. Not having any usable silver paper, one idea I had was to use Bare Metal Foil on the reverse side of a part, then cut out the pattern. Here you can see where I've done it with the fuel tank. The stuff is so thin, that there's no noticeable difference in thickness. Came out better then I thought it would.
Diagram...
http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss301/eatcrow2/DYOTT/dyott009.jpg
Leaving a little border around the piece, and a piece of foil to cover..
http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss301/eatcrow2/DYOTT/dyott012.jpg
Laying it on the parts, and then gently rubbing it on with a piece of steel wool which ends up giving it a brushed metal/aluminum look.
http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss301/eatcrow2/DYOTT/dyott013.jpg
Finished tank with straps added...
http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss301/eatcrow2/DYOTT/dyott014.jpg
Installed in fuselage..
http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss301/eatcrow2/DYOTT/dyott015.jpg
http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss301/eatcrow2/DYOTT/dyott017.jpg
Any errors are the fault of the builder..not the designer.

Claus

03-23-2011, 09:15 AM

Cool! To be honest, I think your idea for the tank (using metal foil) is even better then printing it on silver paper.

birder

03-23-2011, 09:57 AM

Let me also add congratulations for this fine model completion, way to go!! It looks like a real beauty of a airplane!:)

Leif Ohlsson

03-23-2011, 09:59 AM

Peter, very nice indeed. And bare metal foil being ... what? Not household aluminium foil, I take it, since then some kind of glue would have been involved. Self-adhesive metal shining stuff of some kind then? - L.

rmks2000

03-23-2011, 10:04 AM

Leif

Bare Metal Foil is a self-adhesive foil product sold at hobby stores for detailing models with a metal finish.

Bare-Metal® is Used for Detailing Model Cars, and Aircraft - Bare-Metal Foil Co. (http://www.bare-metal.com/bare-metal-foil.html)

Leif Ohlsson

03-23-2011, 02:39 PM

Thank you! They also had some very interesting do-it-yourself decal sheets for inkjet printers (http://www.bare-metal.com/Experts-Choice-Decal-Film.html). At a not unreasonable cost. Interesting indeed, particularly if you wish to use coloured paper (like in Eric's models) and have white insignia on them, and you don't have a printer which prints white. Now to find them in Sweden. Oh, well. - L.

EricGoedkoop

03-23-2011, 05:05 PM

I'll probably end up with the wings on upside down!!

I doubt it - they won't go on the wrong way without some serious persuasion!

The tank looks great. I can save you a little time and effort in the near future; the forward fuel tank (parts 3G2a-e) is 100% invisible in the finished model and serves no structural purpose. You can just build the upper forward deck structure 3G1a-d and skip the rest.

I'm looking forward to see what you make of the cockpit. It's easily the most intricate and difficult part of the model. The seat is especially fiddly, on account of its delicate frame and its attachment to the fuselage frame by wires. I said more than a few bad words trying to get the thing in there right, but it's such a cool detail that I didn't want to omit it. I think there might be a way to do it with thread instead of stiff wire, but we'll wait and see how mad you get at me when you try it.

EricGoedkoop

03-23-2011, 05:12 PM

They also had some very interesting do-it-yourself decal sheets for inkjet printers (http://www.bare-metal.com/Experts-Choice-Decal-Film.html). At a not unreasonable cost. Interesting indeed, particularly if you wish to use coloured paper (like in Eric's models) and have white insignia on them, and you don't have a printer which prints white.

Water-slide decals on a card model? Would that work? The card would have to be adequately sealed, of course, but I suspect a bigger challenge is the surface texture of cardstock. Assuming you could waterproof the cardstock enough to apply a wet decal without buckling the part all to heck, would the decal adhere well and conform to the underlying surface?

Somebody should try this out . . . .

modelerjimg

03-23-2011, 06:22 PM

As a new member, I've just started exploring the multitudes of incredible models here. I'm also interested in these early aviation models; perhaps you should contact The Olde Rhinebeck Aerodrome in Rhinebeck, NY to market a printed kit in their gift shop. Just a thought.

I was reading the above thread regarding Bare Metal Foil. I've been using it for years on my vintage car models, but for aircraft, I use a much cheaper way of doing it. I have Micro Metal foil Adhesive from Microscale. It's kind of a thin, brush-able latex type adhesive, almost like rubber cement. I then use the cheapest, thinnest household aluminum foil I can find at a dollar type store. The adhesive is brushed on the foil, allowed to dry, then applied. It is then burnished with a Q Tip. I haven't used it a paper model, but I think the application would work well for detail parts. Here's a picture of a 1/32 P-38J (I know, the horror...it's plastic!) I covered using this technique.

http://images24.fotki.com/v798/photos/6/1679196/8850886/P38J_0062-vi.jpg

eatcrow2

03-24-2011, 06:42 AM

Here's another part that is suppose to be on silver paper, and it was interesting figuring out how to duplicate the same look.
I cut out each panel a little oversize.. cut lightly on where I needed to trim, and then gently scrap off the excess like you would paint.
http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss301/eatcrow2/DYOTT/dyott1002.jpg

Here I carefully cut the outline of the frame before drybrushing with oil paint, as I didn't like the color of the tan paper I was using.. wiped it dry, and finished cutting it out.
http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss301/eatcrow2/DYOTT/dyott1003.jpg

Frame applied to the side, but as you can see I've covered up the inner bay bracing wires.
http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss301/eatcrow2/DYOTT/dyott1005.jpg

To replicate the wiring, I took some #2 monofiliment fishing line.. colored it black with a felt tipped marker.. ran it through each corner, and hit the back with a tiny bit of CA as I tighten it up.. when dry I trimmed flush with the back, and then lightly sanded it so I had a smooth finish. Actually looks better then it shows in the photos.. A bit of work, but I like the results.
http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss301/eatcrow2/DYOTT/dyott1006.jpg

http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss301/eatcrow2/DYOTT/dyott1007.jpg
http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss301/eatcrow2/DYOTT/dyott1008.jpg

Kazziga

03-24-2011, 10:54 AM

Excellent design! It's good to see a model of an early aeroplane, as they are pretty rare.

EricGoedkoop

03-24-2011, 04:54 PM

Nicely done, Peter. Yours is going to look better than mine when it's done!

Zathros

03-24-2011, 05:23 PM

Beautiful model. Something I noticed though. I don't think the foil is necessary on this plane. I have seen many WW1 aircraft (Rhinebeck Aerodrome), worked on many vintage planes, and not one of them had anything remotely shiny. The foil is kind of "anachronistic", IMHO (for what it's worth).

The model stands fantastically well, all on it's own.

EricGoedkoop

03-24-2011, 06:52 PM

A debatable point, I suppose. The Shuttleworth Blackburn's aluminum cowl positively gleams.

eatcrow2

03-24-2011, 07:19 PM

Nicely done, Peter. Yours is going to look better than mine when it's done!

I seriously doubt that!!
About the shiny metal finish.. Looks more shiny in the photos because of the light refection from the window where I'm taking the shots.. Rubbing it out with the steel wool, has given it a flatter appearance. Having fun working on it, and that's all that matters too me.

Zathros

03-24-2011, 08:53 PM

The polished aluminum nose of this craft is exactly what I am referring too. Foil cannot duplicate this (dulling the surface can). An aluminum paint could reproduce this effect is one used a bright aluminum with a clean coat over it. Having polished Cowlings of some rather vintage birds, and too many propellers are people went for rides in the rain, and seeing them back in a couple of moths, with a new patina on them, there is a difference between a museum piece and an airplane that is used. I guess it depends on what your modeling. The attached pictures show polished aluminum at a very high state, not the highest. I have seen aluminum that looks like chrome, a B-17, 2 years ago, was the shiniest aluminum I'd ever seen, doesn't look like bright foil though. Polished aluminum looks like polished aluminum, the grade and type of aluminum matters much, some is much "whiter". The more the plane is used, the duller the finish. Recently, at the airport, there are more and more planes that are being stripped down and not painted, lack of funds, they look great in that bare aluminum though.

Of course, all the planes in this thread are in the 1% bracket, otherwise they would not warrant observations about minor details, like those I bring up.

eatcrow2

03-26-2011, 06:25 AM

Two sides finished..
http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss301/eatcrow2/DYOTT/dyott1iu003.jpg

Parts for the floor...
http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss301/eatcrow2/DYOTT/dyott1iu001.jpg
Foil added..
http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss301/eatcrow2/DYOTT/dyott1iu005.jpg
Floor frames added, and the glued to the port side.
http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss301/eatcrow2/DYOTT/dyott1iu007.jpg

eatcrow2

03-28-2011, 06:19 AM

Floor added to the two sides, and inner bay bracing wires applied.
http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss301/eatcrow2/DYOTT/DSC05738.jpg

cgutzmer

03-28-2011, 06:52 AM

great step by steps! Love the rigging and this helps me know how to do this for any model now!
Thanks
Chris

Claus

03-30-2011, 01:26 AM

Hi Peter!

I have one remark. I think for part 3A5 you forgot to cut out the interior of part 3A5a and b, see the image detail below.

Regards, Claus

eatcrow2

03-30-2011, 06:14 AM

Hi Peter!
I have one remark. I think for part 3A5 you forgot to cut out the interior of part 3A5a and b, see the image detail below.
Regards, Claus

Hi Claus... Your absolutely right. Should be easy enough to fix or do over (famous last words)... Amazing how obvious something is, once someone points it out to you.;)

Royaloakmin

03-30-2011, 07:09 AM

Great work, Peter. Good to see you busy.

eatcrow2

03-30-2011, 02:32 PM

Great work, Peter. Good to see you busy.

Thank you Fred...

Tailplane assembled..
Showing the scoring needed, and the tool I use....
http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss301/eatcrow2/DYOTT/turtle6am002.jpg
Internal frames..
http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss301/eatcrow2/DYOTT/turtle6am003.jpg
http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss301/eatcrow2/DYOTT/turtle6am004.jpg
Applied..
http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss301/eatcrow2/DYOTT/turtle6am005.jpg
Completed..
http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss301/eatcrow2/DYOTT/turtle6am028.jpg

The way I'm going on this, they're probably wrong...:)

Don Boose

03-30-2011, 06:10 PM

They look right . . . very right.

Don

Jim Nunn

04-01-2011, 12:06 AM

Peter,.

Its great to see you posting again and you are building to your usial high standards.

It has been to long time since our last get together.

Jim

eatcrow2

04-01-2011, 05:59 AM

Peter,.
Its great to see you posting again and you are building to your usial high standards.
It has been to long time since our last get together.
Jim

Thanks Jim... I thought you guys were tired of us unsophisticated/rowdy/womanizing Westsiders from the coast!!!:cool: Hope all is well with you..David, and any others from the monthly meetings..
Cheers.

eatcrow2

04-01-2011, 07:57 PM

I'll be touching and cleaning these up later in the build..

http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss301/eatcrow2/DYOTT/lkdr001.jpg

Thomas Meek

04-01-2011, 08:27 PM

It is looking really good, Peter! And those tail planes are super. I also like what you did with the aluminum for the cockpit interior. Sail on! :)

Thomas

Miles Linnabery

04-02-2011, 08:48 AM

Dear Designer and Beta Builders:
WOW:)
Thanks,
MILES

EricGoedkoop

04-02-2011, 10:56 AM

Tailfeathers look great, Peter. I'm glad you're doing the R.N.A.S. scheme - I'm anxious to see what it looks like!

jimkrauzlis

04-02-2011, 12:45 PM

It's always a distinct treat to see Peter's magic and his projects come to life...so crisp and meticulous in execution, virtually life-like and with the most insane detail you could ever want (at least for me!). You know you are seeing a treasure being created when you tune into one of his build threads.

Thanks for treating us to a extremely well done build of this outstanding model, and giving us scores of tips for when we try to build it ourselves!

Cheers!
Jim

eatcrow2

04-03-2011, 06:38 AM

Thanks for the comments!! I would advise all to check the settings on your monitor, because it's obvious that your not viewing my images clearly, but like anyone, hearing/reading words of encouragement are always welcome..
IMO it's the designers who deserve 99% of the credit. When you have people putting that much time and effort into a project, it makes you want too at least put the same back into the build. This beauty by Eric is a great example!!

Claus

04-04-2011, 02:51 AM

As agreed with Eric, I am writing my build thread of the Dyott in a German forum, but nevertheless, I want to show here some photos of my progress.
So far, I built the wings (I always start with the wings, so the can try thoroughly), the fuselage and started with the cockpit section.
The silver paper I used is ok for the parts I built until now, but for the motor I will use something else (it's already ordered, but mail is slow).
So far, there were no problems - everything fits.

EricGoedkoop

04-07-2011, 05:08 PM

Peter pointed out that I labeled the wing ribs wrong on the parts sheet. Says 7A4a-o and 7B4a-o; should be 7A3a-o and 7B3a-o. It'll be fixed.

Jerry003

04-09-2011, 10:17 AM

eatcrow2

04-10-2011, 06:41 AM

Another assembly completed that will be installed (hopefully), when I have the rest of the controls added.. Some delicate cutting needed for the back seat framework, but well worth the effort. As I didn't have any dark brown paper, I opted out in painting my seat in acrylics & oils.

http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss301/eatcrow2/DYOTT/lkdry012.jpg
painted...
http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss301/eatcrow2/DYOTT/lkdry014.jpg
Supporting wires added.. it will be interesting trying to install in the cockpit.
http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss301/eatcrow2/DYOTT/lkdry018.jpg
Re-cut of a part that I screwed up earlier..
http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss301/eatcrow2/DYOTT/lkdry001.jpg

eatcrow2

04-10-2011, 06:44 AM

Hallo
I'm looking on this forum for a long time, but today I met your old post :"Try out my first kit!". I know, it's 3 years ago, but can you tell me where and if is still possibility to acquire this beautiful kit?

Jerry.. 3 yrs?? not sure if your thinking of some other build, but what I'm doing is a beta build of a "yet to be released" kit.

Egilman

05-09-2011, 04:07 PM

Hi all,

Was just wondering, Has there been any progress on this in the last month?

Beautiful Model and Exquisite build! I hope that I can be this good someday....

EG

Claus

05-10-2011, 04:44 AM

Hi all!

In the meantime, I got some steps further and am working on the engine and the propeller at the moment.

rmks2000

05-10-2011, 05:50 AM

It's been a while since I viewed this thread. Both Peter and Claus are doing are truly giving this model justice. As for Eric, the instructional illustrations are a step above anything else I've seen, and I like the fact that the kit uses colored paper (I never can match the colors quite right when I edge color).

Don Boose

05-10-2011, 05:57 AM

Outstanding! The rigging is very well done and the rotary engine is magnificent. I can smell the castor oil.

Don

Egilman

05-11-2011, 03:30 PM

WOW!!!

Such Beautiful work!!

Makes me green with envy......

Thanks guys for the inspiration.....

EG

Johnny

05-15-2011, 09:12 AM

Really nice work there Peter!!

Golden Bear

05-15-2011, 10:29 AM

A really beautiful kit, Eric. I'll buy it when it comes out. I wish I had the time to help you with a beta right now but am kind of busy and will wait patiently.

Really a fine example of the craft.

Carl

jimkrauzlis

05-15-2011, 12:20 PM

Beautiful!

Wonderful photos of a brilliant design!

Cheers!
Jim

Wyvern

05-16-2011, 10:49 AM

Beautiful model! Bravo!

Wyvern

rbeach84

05-20-2011, 03:55 PM

Hi all!

In the meantime, I got some steps further and am working on the engine and the propeller at the moment.

Claus, might you elaborate on your technique for building the engine? It looks very nice.

Claus

05-21-2011, 10:15 AM

The motor is a quite simple construction (see the first post of this thread). The cylinders are rolled. So, there's nothing special.
The special point here was the material. I used Folex Silver Jet (http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B002VKITIC/ref=oss_product). It is like ink jet overhead foil, but metalized. Nice and shiny. To glue it, i used cyanoacrylate adhesive.

rbeach84

05-22-2011, 10:36 AM

Your technique might be good for a tutorial - assuming you haven't done so already.:)

Claus

06-12-2011, 08:32 AM

OK, in a nutshell - I screwed the wheels completely. They must be "woven" to fake the spokes. Eric delivers a jig for that and I extended it to hold the hub in the center. Everything worked fine. One wheel was finished and I cut it out of the jig. Then, one moment of inobservance - and the 4th picture shows the result. In that moment I was so pi.... I decided no to try it again (it was already the 3rd attempt, ales attempt 1 and two did not work) and use the simple wheels. How the complete plane looks, you can see in the gallery (http://www.papermodelers.com/forum/aviation/15136-1913-dyott-monoplane-1-33-old-scratch-card-modells.html).