Price Points

[Retired_for_now]

So here's the start of a contentious subject (haven't seen a thread on this). How do you price a model sold via download?

Definite lack of experience for a non-professional like me.
Hourly rate based on time to design? N/A what I charge to consult would definitely not work here.
Parts count?
Size?
Number of pages?
Comparables - and definition of such?

So far, I took a guess on the first effort (Bomarc missiles) with a little windage to make it worthwhile for the host site (ECardmodels). Latest Atlas V series is significantly more complex than previous efforts, but falls well short of, say, Ken's designs (OK, not even in the same league).

Yogi

[murphyaa]

I don't know about anybody else, but I generally imagine a base price of $3.00 then 50 cents for each additional page.

a 1 page model = $3.00
a 10 page model = $8.00
etc...

But that's just based on the quality of models I produce.

More detailed models probably would cost more

[Gharbad]

Personally I'm completely willing to part with $10 to $15 for a printed kit as long as it's Maly quality or better. The real nice kits I've spent well in excess of $20 without second thoughts.
For a digital kit... it's somewhat hard to say. I haven't actually bought a digital kit yet but I have downloaded and built a few. For something like your MSL (which I will build still!!!) I think between $5 and $10 is appropriate.

I think a decent approach is having a minimum and maximum defined for yourself and then you do a 'gut feeling' price somewhere in that range based on complexity / uniqueness / quality / phase of the moon.

I think page and part counts shouldn't be a very big factor because something in a large scale naturally takes up many pages due to sheer size while something like a tank has a few pages of cut and paste track links etc.

[Zathros]

I'd ask Chris. I think he has a real good feel for this and the empirical evidence to support his suggestions.

[codex34]

Does reason for sale count?
I'd like to sell a few 'custom' models just to pay for decent hosting for my free models, and as such, i'd look at it as a donation, so maybe $1
If it's for beer money, it really depends what you drink.

[Art Deco]

Yogi, are you taking the plunge and going commercial? That’s excellent! Here's another couple of cents' worth of opinion, offered in the hopes it might be helpful in some way.

Pricing downloaded models is a very tricky issue, since they are essentially 100% IP. Unlike most products, the customer will pay for the production costs (paper, ink), so metrics like page count are rather abstract factors for determining pricing.

I think that what it basically comes down to is: the "right" price is whatever lots of customers are willing to pay.

How much they are willing to pay may be influenced by some of the factors you mentioned, like number of pages or parts count, but I think it might only be a loose correlation. Customers might happily pay more for a model with fewer parts or pages if they felt that the quality of the model or other factors made it worth it.

I think a good starting point would be to survey the market to get a good idea of what customers are currently paying for roughly comparable models.

Then, consider what you think your target customer cares about most for this type of model. Accuracy of dimensions/fidelity to subject? Complexity? Fit quality? Graphics? Assembly documentation? Uniqueness of subject? Historical accuracy? Whatever those factors are, judge how your model fares on those qualities compared to what’s on the market now, and adjust from there.

Also, don't forget that marketing can play a significant role. For example, if your model has outstanding assembly instructions or superb graphics, but customers don't know that before purchasing, it won't affect price like it could.

Best of luck, Yogi! :)

[APA-168]

When I price my models, I think to myself "Well, what is it worth to me?" and so far it's seemed to work. I also get a feel for what other people are charging for a similar model. But mostly it's a function of how much work went into the model. If it was an easy design, I'll charge less. If I had to track down obscure references and spend hours designing and redesigning each part, the cost goes up.

[Retired_for_now]

murphyaa - nice and simple, obviously a lot of experience on your part to gain that feel.

gharbad - you got the bottom line, what is the buyer willing to pay; problem with downloads is still to figure out what that is without doing mountains of data analysis of page views versus purchases at varying price point.

zathros - agreed, heavy reliance on Chris (without actually asking him to do the work ...) and an implicit assumption he'll provide a "what the heck" if I'm way out of the ball park. After all, it has to sell or it doesn't help him either.

codex34 - reason for sale could be a factor. In this case, I'm trying to establish "fair value" (without doing all the data analysis mentioned above) by going to school on others' experiences. Another factor is making sure I don't undercut someone else's better effort - this remains a hobby for me. Beer money's not a problem, now those dang HP ink cartridges ...

art_deco - which brings us to the hard part of pricing intellectual property. It's still supply and demand, with supply limited by the time/effort involved and number of designers working on a subject. Demand is other modelers' interests with the marketing getting the word out to more potential customers. Good stuff - but I'm not really going pro. The vast majority of my designs are educational - trying to put out something that will generate interest in space technology. The only commercial models I've done are ones that interested me but just weren't available. So, I'd have drawn them up anyway. Carefully built they are better than the desk models that go for hundreds, but the paper model requires that input from the modeler.

Avery - That's kind of what I'm looking for; how to start developing that gut feel for what it's worth. What it's worth to me is implicit in the time/etc. I spent in putting it together but the translation from that to some else's cash is still tentative.

Yogi

[jparenti]

Instead of responding to that post (somewhere else) that I'm sure some of you have read regarding this subject, I'll just say it here:
I've only designed a few models myself, and just the test builds eat up A LOT of ink. Ink isn't cheap of course, and I use a lot of it just trying to sanity-check a prototype. I would say that one of the models I have been working on sporadically has eaten a $20 color cartridge already. Recouping just that cost is desirable, and no one can argue that the time put into a design is also worth something. (And the site host needs a cut, too, sometimes.)
When you take into consideration the fact that most designers give away their models for nothing, I would say charging a nominal fee for a model once in a while is acceptable. In fact, it gives me some pleasure in knowing that I have contributed to the hobby by offsetting some of the costs incurred by a designer.
I just like to think that if I ever decide to sell one of my models, people would understand the reasoning and not mind to contribute to the prototyping process. This is my take on it, anyway. I don't think any complaints regarding a price is fair. If you're talking about a one or two page model, I'd say shoot for $2. A ten page model is easily worth $5 to me. I think mostly everyone here understands that this hobby, while generally inexpensive and fun, can become time-consuming and require expenditures enough to warrant a fee to the designer once in a while, if not every time (which is also completely understandable, for those who charge for every model they design.)
And BTW, I have the Atlas V model, and I think the price is perfectly fair. (After all, I can build myself one or ten or a hundred now.) And how many free models of yours have I built, anyway? Certainly I should contribute to the cause of paper modeling somehow!
I'll get off the soapbox now. It just irritates me when people complain that they can't have everything for free. (Yes, I'm one of those who pays for music on iTunes, too.) :)

[murphyaa]

THe worst part I find about designing is tabs. I'm looking at the Learjet model 23 right now, and seeing hundreds of tabs having to be drawn and lined up individually. I'm half tempted to just draw one big tab, and let the builder cut slits as they feel like. The only problem is since I don't use formers, the tabs provide some structure, and help form up the shape of the parts.

[Retired_for_now]

Joseph - appreciate the input. Rereading my response, I may have come across as a little sarcastic (who, me?) in the "other" posting. Bottom line - something is worth what the buyer will pay. As usual, I was hoping to shorten my learning cycle by "swiping" the knowledge of those more experienced.
Murph - concur on tabs ... draw, place, rotate, replace, ... One thing you might try, place the tabs close to where they need to be, then bring the actual part to the foreground, thereby using the well defined edges of the parts to hide any little glitches in the tabs.
Yogi

[murphyaa]

I do that anyway, but it still takes forever to draw them.

[Maltedfalcon]

It depends on the quality of the model. You should get what you pay for.
another factor is the rarity of the model
if it is a model of an X and there are dozens of other X models out there, including free versions. you would need to price accordingly.

if you are selling a totally orignal model of a unique subject, that is professionally produced, $10 or $15 would not be extreme.

If its yet another repaint of a common model perhaps $1 or 2$ is good.

A designer should not hesitate to ask for payment when they have invested time/materials and effort in a project.

We also need to remember that not all "Free" models are free. Take for instance the models from Canon, while you do not have to pay money for them, you pay nonetheless, All these models are advertising for Canon. Canon pays designers, Canon pays for the website, It's all budgeted for in Canon's advertising budget. If they weren't getting value of advertising for these models from your visits/downloads and referrals, those models would disappear tomorrow.

So it comes down to what do you want from your models? The good will of your fellow modelers? enough $ to keep you in ink and paper? a new car?

What I require is enough income so that my hobby is not in any way a financial drain on my family, So that means it needs to cover paper, ink glue, exacto blades etc. , websites, and my time. - That adds up pretty fast.

I also want feedback about my models. I have found if you put up a free model. lots of people download it, and say neat!, however I notice few of those people actually build it. - They treat it like it basically had no value, and my hard designed file now becomes clutter on someone's disk drive.

However if I sell the same model. they people who buy it are the ones who are interested in it, and more often than not, they build it and let me know what they thought about it. They value the model more because they had to pay for it.

just my 2 cents.

[murphyaa]

I like that idea of selling to get feedback. I love seeing pictures of other people building my models (I stink at building, that's why I don't post pics) I've gotten a few comments about how good my designs are, but rarely do I see a build thread, or pictures. I know most are simple, mainly because I design what I want to build (see above comment about stinking at building) so a build thread might take 2 or 3 posts max, but it's still nice to see somebody work their magic.

[goodduck]

And that's why I only released my Savoia.S21 to only a hand full of people, Maltedfalcon, and make them build Part-01 before they get Part-02 then part-03. I learned that from Japanese designers. If anyone don't build Part-01, then no p-02 and 03. But I taking one step more. Lucky for the people that got my Savoia.S21 that I doing the instruction way too slow cause I also thinking putting time limited on the build. Like after I finished the instructions, they only got so many weeks, month to finished their. Then I will cut off part-02 and Part-03. Bottom line is I work my ass off building the model and I giving it to you free, build it. If you don't. You get nothing more form me. I know it is very harsh. But I think (hope) at least one or two people that got my Savoia will actually build my Savoia. And for the other that don't, no more models from me in the future ever again. I will pick a new group of modelers to give my models next time.

[Maltedfalcon]

yes, a limited release, actually drives the value of the model upward. But if you want that much control over your model why release it in the first place.
If I had to build a model on someone else's schedule, I would pass.
I have been known to let models sit for months working on it only a tiny bit at a time.
This becomes a mutual loss, you will never get my feedback or see my construction of your model and I will never get to build one of your designs...

That's just sad.

[goodduck]

Well, not at all. I built the model for myself cause I can not buy it anywhere else. I don't intended to share it with anyone else for free in the first place anyway. So I don't care if no one build it. Not my lost, I already build mind.

[jparenti]

Rereading my response, I may have come across as a little sarcastic (who, me?) in the "other" posting.

Actually, "sarcastic" never came to mind when I read it. I believe the way I described your post to my fiancée was "way more congenial that I could have managed". Honestly. I resisted the urge to respond there, simply because I wanted to avoid conflict. (The Internet is full of people who don't think before they speak, and I don't want to be one of them.)
Pricing depends on a lot of factors. I would say charging $20 for something I don't get a printed version of is too high. But I have spent more than that for rare printed models. And charging $1 for something that took hours of time, several test builds, and could help support a website for such things with a percentage of the profit, is too low. I didn't flinch to pay $5.00 for a downloaded model, so I would say that's very fair.

[mbauer]

Hi Yogi,

Been reading this thread with interest. Not much to add, but reading to learn from it.

Great question with some really good answers.

Just want to say thank you to all who have added their insights!

Best regards,
Mike Bauer

[Zathros]

Well, not at all. I built the model for myself cause I can not buy it anywhere else. I don't intended to share it with anyone else for free in the first place anyway. So I don't care if no one build it. Not my lost, I already build mind.

I have to say that being one of the persons that has been so fortunate to been given one of Allen's (Goodduck) models, I actually ordered an Epson Workforce 1100 printer so I could print it full size and build it. No one around here offers printing services for work that big. I actually found that quite odd. So, Epson gets a sale because of Goodduck, they owe you Allen.:)

P.S. Having purchased 2 Canon Elph camera's, I feel happy to get a little bit of my money back from Canon.

[Maltedfalcon]

Zathros, what size is full sized?

[Zathros]

Zathros, what size is full sized?

The Savoia calls for 13" x 19" printing, which is what I meant. I imagine it could be made smaller, but I wants a biggun'!!:)