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ct ertz
12-15-2011, 03:52 PM
While I await my fate with doctors I have had more time then I am used too. I have several models being test built, and several more that are waiting. Meanwhile, I have this one. The CSS General Sterling Price, later the USS General Price. It was 182 feet long and the hull proper was only 30 feet wide. The after portion seams quite wide with the fantail shaped into the overhanging paddle boxes. The casemate was armored with compresses cotton between two bulkheads. The front of the casemate had 1 inch iron. All this was to protect the engine and boilers. The guns were exposed. It was originally planned on being used as a ram. The model is a waterline in 1/250 scale. Note the wood sheathed hog braces and the extreme forward position of the stacks.

Vermin_King
12-15-2011, 05:17 PM
Very nice again, sir

Darwin
12-15-2011, 05:48 PM
A good looking design...I'm looking forward to your release of these models.

Thomas Meek
12-15-2011, 06:10 PM
That is an interesting steamboat, Corey. I admire the research work you do to even find those things, and then to design your beautiful models of them is a truly impressive achievement.

Do you know if the CSS General Sterling Price was purpose-built as a warship? And whatever the original intended purpose of the ship, do you know the rationale behind her rather unusual features? (Paddle Wheels so far back, stacks so far forward, great length compared to width.) Where were the engines placed? How effective was compressed cotton at stopping cannon balls? A very interesting vessel, indeed.

Hudsonduster
12-15-2011, 06:47 PM
I'm also real interested in this one, and you've got a great start on it, thanks Corey.

Nope, like so much of the River Defense Fleet, this wasn't purpose-built but a conversion: started out as the LAURENT MILLAUDON in 1856, stripped and "fortified" with whatever they had on hand, and in a big hurry too.

--Which means, cotton: and, nope, it wasn't effective at stopping cannon balls. While it afforded some protection from small-arms fire, it was largely there for some psychological assurance. Granted, a couple feet of compressed cotton would slow a ball down some (and it's suggested that engineers coveted those bunkers of coal for the same reason, and would get stingy as the coal reserves sank below the top of the boiler) but not a lot.

This is looking real good so far. Something I'm seeing--back me up or not, guys--is an apparent "kink" in the fair curve of the guard aft of the paddleboxes. While the camera angle is low, it still looks like the deck back there was cut down in the same way the fore guard was; and I think this would be logical, for the same reason they did it up front: no reason for all that deck, less timber to shoot up. What do you think?

I also like that you're "looking behind the paneling" to deal with structural elements like the hog frame and paddlewheel support: it may not show on the model (excepting the bit up front that nobody's treated right before) but just the understanding that something's there informs your engineering of the model when all other documentation fails.

Can I do the Beta build pleeze?

'Duster

ct ertz
12-15-2011, 07:09 PM
Oh, Duster. I am so sorry. I had forgotten about our previous conversation about the General Price. I really didn't mean to steal this out from under you! And if you want you can sure do the test build.

As to the back deck, I was going back and forth on this too. Here is another photo of the ship from the rear. When I did the Champion, I did take in the back deck overhang, but this looks like a more pronounced deck. But I am not sure.

CT

Hudsonduster
12-15-2011, 07:23 PM
Well, I'm not sorry at all, you're doing a great job and I'm enjoying watching it happen!!

Yah, this deck thing, this is what was worrying my foggy eyes--every shot I've got shows that slightest kink about 1/3 back from the end of the paddlebox. Is it cut back? Stands to reason. Is there enough visual evidence? Umm--

You know the story about the "Face" on Mars? Viking I was doing a photo-mapping of the planet, &sent a couple angles of a spot in the Cydonia region. Some guy looked at a jumble of rocks and went, "Wo, that looks like--" and he ran it through a "cleanup" on his computer. Then another. And and and. Every time he "cleaned up," guess what! it looked more like a FACE. Okay, you guys take the story from there.

Now, let's get back to pondering the shape of GEN. PRICE's stern guard...

'Duster

ct ertz
12-17-2011, 03:58 PM
I will post pics later, but I have decided to trim back that stern deck some.

ct ertz
12-17-2011, 04:02 PM
I read that the cotton was hydrological pressed into sheets or board, giving it quite a bit of density and weight. While the north was experimenting with rubber, the south was experimenting with cotton. Wasn't long before both figured out that they were on the wrong track. Although against small arms, that compressed cotton would have helped...along with that oak!

mldixon
12-17-2011, 04:22 PM
Nice model CT. I admire your work. This thread is also a wealth of knowledge.
Thanks for sharing.

ct ertz
12-17-2011, 04:58 PM
Thanks Mike, but I get a whole lot of help on these things.

Here is the re-cut of the stern.

Hudsonduster
12-18-2011, 06:30 AM
Ahhhh. It is just so satisfying to see this coming together.

Corey, I'm gonna mark up some photos this morning & Email 'em to you--I suspect there's the barest remnant of a Texas up top. Also, what few pictures I have show the pilothouse roof nearly dead-flat, maybe just matching the hurricane deck's camber. What do you think?

The best pics of the boat are from after she was raised and refitted by the Union. As she's originally listed as having four 9-inch smoothbores, I worry that the big Parrott rife on the stern is a later addition. (But it's beautiful! I WANT it!!) Might be interesting to offer options, maybe; easier for you if the four were all carriaqe guns. I will dig around a little today while doing laundry.

'Duster

ct ertz
12-18-2011, 08:52 AM
OK, so this will be a two for! On early Confederate version and one later USN version. Dose anyone have any idea where the other two 9 inch guns were on the Confederate ship? no room on the bow or stern deck. May be off set from each other in the casemate, like the waist guns on a B-17?

I am adding the retirements of the Texas deck and planking the Union version over. Any other obvious differences between the two? How about color? How long was the ship submerged, and was it repainted? So many questions.

CT

ct ertz
12-18-2011, 09:46 AM
Here is a visual. In position one, recoil would be limited and that puts a lot of weight on the fantail. In position two, the wieght of the guns would be supported in part by the superstructure of th ship and reinforcing beams underneath, and providing nothing was in the way, a good amount of recoil room. However, any real training would be limited do to the closed in side to side area, again, limited recoil. Any thoughts?

Hudsonduster
12-18-2011, 11:05 AM
Hm. Well, what's inside, back there? The paddlewheels get supported on their outer ends by pillowblocks in a big A-frame, which is suspended at front & back by cables running diagonally down from the ridge of the hog frame. All that stuff is enclosed within the parameters of the paddleboxes, and still you could carry some mass out a few feet behind that bracing. So geometrically I bet you've got room you can fill between there and the bulkhead out to the rear deck. I'd stuff a couple of carriage guns in there.

I looked a long time at the picture below, big grainy blowup and all, & I swear pixels are shedding off my eyes and dropping into my coffee right now...and I've convinced myself that the Texas runs right across between the paddlebox sides. What do you think? The two bright lines that I'm interpreting as cross beams seem to run out to the visible side.

I think you've got at least four treads on the companionway ladder up to the pilothouse, & logic would argue a couple up to the Texas--but that don't show in the only reliable pic. Those may be to the right, hidden behind the locker spanning the rear of the paddlebox, which would be a good arrangement for moving around up there.

Here's something I oughta keep my mouse shut about: colors!
What I know of paint is, any mix of coal tar in linseed oil was what passed for general-usage outside paint from this period right up to WWI (where they were applying it like fingerpaint to make "camo" on fighter planes!)--and the amount of coal tar defined the darkness. You could have anything from oiled oak color down to deep brown-black. I wouldn't argue that this vessel was ever a showpiece, even less so in her USN refit, and real pigment is something she hadn't seen in years. So all the artsy fun here is in the weathered dirty details.

If we assume a difference between the boat's two lives (and why not?), I vote for a lighter brown in the CSN version and a darker coat later. So, dark oak-gray under dirty white before, darker weathered-brown-black under dirty white after. Decks are decks: oily and messy below, more uniform above and kept holystoned if the captain's fussy, but likely weathered as well.

'Duster

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa29/hudsonduster/STERLING%20PRICE/SterlingPrice4.jpg

ct ertz
12-20-2011, 04:27 PM
I am holding off going any further until I get some addition info from a friend. I do not know if it will change things of shed light on my questions, but we will see.

Hudsonduster
12-28-2011, 01:18 PM
A bump up--Corey, I'm wondering if you've got at all itchy to continue this one? I seem to remember the layout was pretty much set, & it was down to the fiddly bits. I'd love to see it.

'Duster

ct ertz
12-28-2011, 01:28 PM
Yes-I was adding the little vents in the upper casemate wall lastnight. I think they were for letting in some daylight as well as venting. I have also added the scrapped out portions of the Texas. I will get some more done and pictures up soon. Actually it is nearing unfolding time. Many of my questions are going be in the instructions with it up to the builder for final layout. I will supply what I know in the notes and leave it up to the builder for things like broadside gun placement and so on. More soon!
CT

Hudsonduster
12-28-2011, 01:48 PM
Good to hear. I know I'M itchy!

ct ertz
12-29-2011, 10:54 AM
Some small progress.

ct ertz
01-13-2012, 06:17 AM
Working on parts now. I will be looking for that test build soon 'Duster!
CT

Hudsonduster
01-13-2012, 03:42 PM
Ready & waiting. Bought me some hellasmall wire for handrails &c. in hellasmall scales, so I'm equipped & everything!

'D

Hudsonduster
03-27-2012, 07:16 PM
Another bump up, and a "Please Stand By" sign:

"It's a HOBBY, not a JOB"...Corey and I had a lot of fun kicking around pics & docs & anecdotes a while back, each of us wanting to play with this boat for wildly disparate reasons (I want to build the model for a friend who carries its name--a guy who's completely unaware of the name's significance!)--

But, Life Gets In The Way.

A HOBBY is supposed to be a diversion from the drear and drag of Life, and at its best it should be blissfully free of the Obligations that Life is rife with. You wanna do something? Cool, do it. Wanna get excited about this or that? Wonderful.

--Wanna drop that thread and pick up a whole new direction? PERFECT Do it. God Love Ya.

A Hobby not a Job.

Anyway, I've been busy with Life Stuf and precious little Hobby in there at all; and Corey's busy with a perfectly beautiful MORGAN-Class model and, ummm, some little chemical issues--

--Sooooo, I'm gonna stop getting soaking wet standing out by the mailbox and go build an airplane. --When I get the time. We shall see each other back here anon.

Isn't this a great hobby?

'Duster

sporticus
03-28-2012, 05:05 PM
Looking forward to this one. I love the variety of ACW ships. Love all these converted steamers.

sporticus
04-05-2012, 11:50 AM
Know what you mean about life getting in the way! If I had a pound for every project I've started but not had time for, or every.,...I can make that, but never find the time....well, I'd have enough money to not need to work and could finally spend all my time actually doing those things!! :-)