Dad Shoots Laptop

[sgoti]

We could use a few more parents like him:

Dad shoots laptop. (http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/30430707/detail.html)

"Whenever you're not grounded, whenever year that may be..." Would hate to be in her shoes.

I also like the "we will not be doing interviews" portion, especially his reasons for doing so (or, in this case, not doing so)!

[bagpiper]

I just watched this on a link on face book. This is well worth watching.

Cheers
Jim

[Rangerdog]

This is nonsense! Imagine that, bratty kids hating their parents. Oh dear!! I used to think if my old man was any dumber, he would have possessed a tail. I never did really like him, but with the passage of years - I came to understand him. The web gives kids a louder voice and bigger mouth to whine about whatever.

Guns have never solved anything. Before anyone gives me a 2nd Amendment flame - i have firearms collection of over a hundred. Why a gun? Why not mash it with a sledgehammer or chop it it up with an axe?

[Dented Rick]

“When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years.”

~Mark Twain

[Spar]

I'm not a parent, but I do agree with the father. The only thing I would've done differently was take the girls laptop, erase the memory, and donate it to to a school or kids club so it could benefit a child who really needs it.

[DagobahDave]

These days a lot of kids have a really inflated sense of self-entitlement, and part of it comes from advances in technology like laptop computers and cell phones that put the world at their fingertips without having to work for it. Those of us who produce digital products for a living know this only too well.

I respect the father for eliminating one of those undeserved tools, but his humiliation of his daughter was disproportionate, and using a gun to make his point is unnecessarily threatening and intimidating. Plus, he doesn't seem to feel any better after squeezing gats till the clips is empty, so he might as well have given away or sold the laptop.

[luke strawwalker]

Good for him!

Kids NEED to learn that actions and words have consequences! She wanted to complain, now she's REALLY got something to complain about!

My granddad died when I was 13, and by the time I was 15 I was running TWO family farms 100 miles apart with the help of my grandmother (who drove until I got my license). I ran heavy equipment, mixed and applied chemicals and fertilizers, baled hay, repaired heavy machinery, and drove cotton pickers until the wee hours of the morning in the late summer and early fall. Missed plenty of school along the way doing it as well. My Dad worked construction at the nuclear plant and so within 2 years of my Granddad, who did the farming, passing away (Dad just helped him during the "busy" parts of the year after work and on weekends) I had the whole place to run on my own, pretty much.

Know what?? It did me good. Taught me to be responsible, to work, keep my nose to the grindstone, not give up, and think about what I was doing. I didn't have time to race cars, chase girls, drink booze, and get into trouble-- I was too busy working! I didn't smoke pot, didn't get wasted on alcohol every weekend, didn't knock any girls up, and kept my nose clean. We had at least 6 kids I can think of in the four years I went to high school get killed mostly because of alcohol and general stupidity. Everybody weeped and wailed and all that, and guess what-- next weekend they were all getting stone stinking drunk again... :rolleyes:

Like a preacher I know put it... the gubmint says you can't spank your kids anymore, and the school WON'T discipline them anymore, but IT'S OKAY for the gubmint to put a needle in them (lethal injection) once they've killed somebody... This is absolutely right! "Discipline starts at home"...

I used to drive a schoolbus and saw how lax, stupid, and nonexistant "handwringing" parenting, letting the kids get by with EVERYTHING, and NEVER taking a stand to make the kids DO RIGHT, leads to the kind of vapid ranting brats we have nowdays. SOONER OR LATER kids will HAVE to learn that there ARE RULES and they'll have to live by them. They can learn it the easy way, as KIDS, or they can go through life being carried on a silk pillow while they act like total brats and punks and morons and then get out into the REAL WORLD and end up kicked to the curb when NOBODY ELSE PUTS UP WITH IT... then of course it's "Everybody else's fault" that they can't keep a job, can't get along with anybody, are constantly in trouble, etc...

If we had a LOT more parents with some cajones like this Dad, then we'd have a LOT less problems in the world!

Later! OL JR :)

[APA-168]

There are a great many idiots in the world, and an unfortunate number of them become parents (read: most.) I have no idea what to think of this guy, I kind of like him even if I'm not sure what to think of his parenting. But it's not something I would do or condone, and I think it's pretty simplistic to just take the parents' side in this without having a good long think about his actions and what they mean about his whole family's dynamic.

I don't agree that kids today have a sense of entitlement, at least not one that wasn't given to them by the preceding generation. People have a habit of making a lot of generalizations without looking in the mirror.

I won't even address luke strawalkers comments because they are so off-base it's pointless. "Vapid ranting brats" indeed.

[Thomas Meek]

They are our last frontier.
They shot the railway-train when it first came.
And when the Fords came, they shot the Fords.
It could not save them.
They are dying now of being educated, which is the same.
One need not weep romantic tears for them.
But when the last moonshiner buys his radio,
And the last, lost, wild-rabbit of a girl
Is civilized with a mail-order dress
Something will pass that was American

--Stephen Vincent Benet
(from the epic poem "John Brown's Body" 1928)

Still, when I read the news article I had to laugh. How many times have I wished I had the Moxie to do something like that!

[Yale]

Guns are neat, computers are neat, and I have enormous sympathy for the father. But where was he when he emptied the .45? In most communities it's illegal to fire a gun this way anywhere in town, even on your own property. If Dad was on private property out in the boondocks, murdering the laptop may not have violated any laws. But it would be so very ironic if his attempt to instill responsibility in the daughter turned out to be irresponsible conduct on his own part that landed him in jail. And while I'm not criticizing Dad -- he knows the daughter better than we and he's there on the spot -- I suspect that this "disciplinary moment" would have been even more effective if he somehow could have forced her to destroy the laptop.

[Scott K]

I agreed with the Dad up until he fired. Destroy a machine you just out $130 into, really? Wish I had your kind of money to waste. Next time, just reformat it and send it to me! I could really use a new computer.

I'm now wondering what sort of posts I'll find on my daughter's wall when I look. She's 17, and we have many arguments about chores. I have no idea where she got the, "I didn't do it (use dishes, dirty clothes, make garbage, etc), so I don't have to clean it up" attitude.

Oh, well, could be worse.

And, btw, what is that guy doing with explosive hollow point rounds?? I thought they were only good for penetrating kevlar vests, the so-called "Cop Killer" rounds. Any gun owner/hunter types care to tell me what else they're good for? (Besides destroying laptops).

Scott K.

[Tapcho]

Triumph of parenthood gone way wrong. He got what he deserved in all the twists of the incident. She just wanted to vent with her friends. Is it really so that one needs to spy and stalk their children and if so why not take a look in the mirror instead and think what caused it in the first place. Crappy life created by mentally disabled parents. I hope she survives without turning to the household armory.

[murphyaa]

we could also get into the fact the girl probably didn't even have to pay for the laptop in the first place. When I was growing up, I wasn't given niceties like my own laptop or cell phone*.

Anything I was given was only after I'd earned it by doing chores or mowing lawns.



*OK, ok, so cell phones and laptops weren't readily accessible while I was growing up, but still...

[Hudsonduster]

I'm recalling a moment in my second-favorite Time Travel movie, where we have H. G. Wells observing: "The first man to raise a fist is the man who's run out of ideas."

Accepting for the moment that this truly isn't a Jerry Springer pitch--I see a relationship where it's not just out of control, but there never was control--nor, more importantly, an understanding of the nature of control.

A large portion of parenting skill involves a memory of one's own childhood and the inner perceptions and forces at work in there; and the ability to apply that memory as the context in which to see our children's lives--seeing through their eyes, in a very real way.

It's physiological fact that during adolescence our decision-making process is literally adrift--our control center is migrating from the hippocampus out to the cortex; and in a very real sense we are hard-put to grasp long-term consequences of impulsive action. Nature has incorporated this as part of the evolutionary engine, and it's running wild: any lucky hit that survives, the gene pool improves--if not, well, that's Nature. But it ain't Culture, where we like to think in terms like Nature vs. Nurture...

By that token, a large part of the duty of parenting involves providing a structure for that wild mind to forge a structure of its own. We parents, we're the wall around the volcano. We have to take the worst our children can sling and shape it--not contain it, not beat it back, and certainly not let it go by.

Because, the child needs to get that power under control. It's a positive thing, positively and wisely controlled, and it's what makes a strong and successful adult. He needs to beat against the perceived constraint of Limits--logic, wisdom, society--and learn that there are places he's just not gonna go by pushing; and by this he learns his strength, the limits to his strength, and the beginnings of persuasion over force. He learns the beginnings of wisdom.

That's our job. That's the hell of parenting, and it's the part you never thought of back on that night you were gettin' lucky, right?

Now, none of us were looking in on Perforated Laptop Guy's family, so we don't really know the moment the process got lost; I'd question whether Dad's understanding was ever in place, if he reacted to his daughter's natural, impulsive FB rant with this surgical strike.

There's a more disturbing angle to the story: both father and daughter are playing this out on Social Media.

The Internet may be the worst enemy of healthy development we have ever invented (and that's a long list, including everything after opposable thumbs, and God invented those). It allows our quickest, most ill-considered impulse to be splashed across the planet instantly, bypassing all our better instincts; where it remains to be read by others, as if it's actually a valid thing; and so we are lulled into believing it IS. --We also are protected from the natural consequences of those impulsive rants, more so than most other venues we will move in; try some of these lines out on the subway platform or the office party, and see what reactions you get from people actually within arms' length. And that's where the Internet undermines the parameters of parenting.

Except, rather than perceiving that trap beforehand or even dealing with it after in a teaching manner (up to and including inventing the iColander) but on a private, personal level--Dad went public, too. Showing that the 'Net is an appropriate place to work out differences, presumably by accruing more "Likes" than your adversary. --And then to try to manipulate the open-source battle by "no interviews"--well, that's sending the horse out and claiming you still hold the reins. Good luck with that.

My father, a cabinetmaker, often had things go wrong in his work--with some numskull in his crew, sometimes with planning, and sometimes he just got swindled by a customer. His reaction was always the same four words: "My watch. My fault." I learned a lot from that. And I taught it to my two daughters.

--As I've typed this, I see the sentiment I've put here has been expressed by the previous three, WAAAY-shorter, posts. Oh well. That's (also) the glory of the Internet.

'Duster

[Zathros]

There are a great many idiots in the world, and an unfortunate number of them become parents (read: most.) I have no idea what to think of this guy, I kind of like him even if I'm not sure what to think of his parenting. But it's not something I would do or condone, and I think it's pretty simplistic to just take the parents' side in this without having a good long think about his actions and what they mean about his whole family's dynamic.

I don't agree that kids today have a sense of entitlement, at least not one that wasn't given to them by the preceding generation. People have a habit of making a lot of generalizations without looking in the mirror.

I won't even address luke strawalkers comments because they are so off-base it's pointless. "Vapid ranting brats" indeed.


I have to agree with you Avery. That child's upbring rests solely on the actions of the parent. I have weapons too. What an idiot. It is so easy to lock up a computer, you can set parental controls, or just "physically" remove it. As a parent, I see the young people we raise as the vanguard and hope of out country and world. Think about it, "Parent gets made at child and discharges weapon out of anger". If I read those headlines I would think that child should be removed for her own protection for that home. This guy is an I.T specialists and doesn't know how to lock down a computer? My sons school requires a Laptop, no way around it. If you don't have the money, they give you one and you have to sign a promissory note saying you will pay for any damage. Imagine how more frustrating it would be to see that Laptop there, every day, Running, and not have access to it?

I just purchased my son a killer Laptop and he has a cell phone, God forbid something happens and he need help. I can and do go into his laptop everyday and review a history of what he has been up to. I know now why he is a High Honors student. This guy just taught his daughter if something really pisses her off, put a few rounds into it. It is a lot easier to unlock a gun than bypass a computer's password(s). (That takes about 15 minutes from start to finish with a Linux based program on a CDRom), the gun is much easier. Seems like somethting else is going on. Then again, maybe it's over, and he already purchased her a laptop. Funny, he neer addressed the ill will hischild has towards him. I wonder where that came from. I wonder how many years he has let his daughter on Facebook? 15 years old is when a young girl can get into a lot of trouble. No experience to fall back on and this guy leaves her open to virtually the whole world, on Facebook? She'll disappear one day and he'll be clueless as to why. This guy is a moron (not because he wants to do chores, but because of everything else). IMHO..

[dansls1]

I agree kids need to learn consequences for their actions (I have a stepsister who died way too young because she didn't) - but public humiliation is probably not a good choice and destroying perfectly good property is definitely short-sighted and illogical - especially considering it could have been donated to a school or other charity to help out those less fortunate.

[Dented Rick]

Triumph of parenthood gone way wrong. He got what he deserved in all the twists of the incident. She just wanted to vent with her friends. Is it really so that one needs to spy and stalk their children and if so why not take a look in the mirror instead and think what caused it in the first place. Crappy life created by mentally disabled parents. I hope she survives without turning to the household armory.

It is the Job of Parents to Pry, and know EVERYTHING about their kids. Mine is only 8 right now, but I know everything he does. when he becomes a Teenager, I'll know everything he does. that's my Job, because im his Dad. When he is 18, has a Job, his own place, and his own life, THEN I can be his friend.

Too many parents these days are more worried about offending their own children, and trying to be their friend, that they forget that their first Job is to RAISE them. This is why our youth are in dire straits. an inflated sense of entitlement without an inflated sense of responsibility.

Im not saying that the dad in the video did the right or wrong thing. very little is actually revealed in the video about the entire situation, But I do agree that posting a letter like that for the world to see without going straight to the parents and working the problems out is about as overboard as the father was in shooting the gun.

[luke strawwalker]

There are a great many idiots in the world, and an unfortunate number of them become parents (read: most.) I have no idea what to think of this guy, I kind of like him even if I'm not sure what to think of his parenting. But it's not something I would do or condone, and I think it's pretty simplistic to just take the parents' side in this without having a good long think about his actions and what they mean about his whole family's dynamic.

I don't agree that kids today have a sense of entitlement, at least not one that wasn't given to them by the preceding generation. People have a habit of making a lot of generalizations without looking in the mirror.

I won't even address luke strawalkers comments because they are so off-base it's pointless. "Vapid ranting brats" indeed.

You OBVIOUSLY never dealt with OTHER PEOPLE'S KIDS on a daily basis...

Til you've walked in my shoes, you're really just demonstrating your ignorance of the problem.

You're entitled to your opinion of course, no matter how WRONG it happens to be.

Later! OL JR :)

[luke strawwalker]

I agree kids need to learn consequences for their actions (I have a stepsister who died way too young because she didn't) - but public humiliation is probably not a good choice and destroying perfectly good property is definitely short-sighted and illogical - especially considering it could have been donated to a school or other charity to help out those less fortunate.

I agree with some of what you say and disagree with some of it. Here's why...

My grandmother asked me one time during the 80's and early 90's, when society was actually concerned about the HUGE increase in teen pregnancy and unwed mothers and all that... She asked me one time, as a teenager/young adult myself-- "What in the world are those girls thinking? Why would they get themselves into that position?"

I told her, "Because they don't care. Because there is no consequences to it. Because the government or their parents or the community or whomever will provide support, medical care, special programs, etc. to take care of them and their kids... so their attitude is "WHY NOT"... They "just want to have fun" and so they do, and whatever happens, oh well, that's for SOMEBODY ELSE to take care of, to "help them" with... "

My grandmother shook her head and told me, "Ya know, back in MY day, you didn't even THINK about doing something like that! Back then, if you got "knocked up", your life was OVER! NO DECENT MAN would ever have anything to do with you, and you SURE didn't get help from the government, or even from family most of the time... You ended up living in a dirt floored shack picking cotton for the rest of your life! So believe me, when you had a boy get frisky, you slapped him and moved on to someone who respected you and would provide for you, if you were smart..."

A little "public humiliation" goes a long way to making folks think about their actions. Maybe this guy was "over the top"-- that sword cuts both ways and now HE's getting a little attention and humiliation that perhaps he'd have rather not had... maybe think a little clearer next time, set a better example (erase the laptop and give it away instead of emptying a clip into it... BUT it made the point!) If the girl was embarrassed or humiliated, oh well... she'll get over it. Maybe she'll even learn a lesson from it, oh, like say "Don't tick off Daddy by doing stupid stuff like this-- he'll do something to embarrass the crap out of me."

Personally I think this society needs a WHOLE LOT LESS "compassion" and "understanding" and a WHOLE LOT MORE "accountability". That would go a LONG way to solving our problems...

Later! OL JR :)

[luke strawwalker]

It is the Job of Parents to Pry, and know EVERYTHING about their kids. Mine is only 8 right now, but I know everything he does. when he becomes a Teenager, I'll know everything he does. that's my Job, because im his Dad. When he is 18, has a Job, his own place, and his own life, THEN I can be his friend.

Too many parents these days are more worried about offending their own children, and trying to be their friend, that they forget that their first Job is to RAISE them. This is why our youth are in dire straits. an inflated sense of entitlement without an inflated sense of responsibility.

Im not saying that the dad in the video did the right or wrong thing. very little is actually revealed in the video about the entire situation, But I do agree that posting a letter like that for the world to see without going straight to the parents and working the problems out is about as overboard as the father was in shooting the gun.

EXACTLY! And those of us dealing with other people's kids (teachers, schoolbus drivers, etc.) are put in a bad position...

Nobody wants to correct their kids anymore, but THEY DON'T WANT ANYBODY ELSE CORRECTING THEM EITHER!

I'd say that about 90% of the general population, especially these hand-wringers that let their kids do anything they want to and get away with it, wouldn't last TEN MINUTES dealing with kids in a school, etc...

Oh well... it's just part of the reason our country is headed down the tubes...

Later! OL JR :)

[TomW]

Scott:

Not addressing the issue on parenting, too much likelyhood of my really setting off a flame war, but to answer your question on hollowpoints; hollowpoints are bullets with a cavity in the nose which allows the bullet to expand more quickly when it enters an elastic medium such as flesh or clay. They are not what were called by the morons of the media as "Cop Killer" bullets. Those, which were no more useful to kill cops than to punch holes in paper, were teflon coated to reduce friction while moving down the bore of the barrel of the firearm and thereby gain more energy from the expanding gasses.

Some moron of a media disinformation dispensing center ( hard to tell I really don't like any of the so-called news media, isn't it? ) thought, if it is possible, " Hey, Teflon! I bet that's so it can slip through the kevlar layers on a 'bullet-proof' (no such thing) vest that cops wear. We can make a mint off of advertisers buy stirring up a make believe threat to the police." And of course, some time-server/political-buddies police chief's went right along in order to get their names in the paper.

Hollow points were developed in order to make quicker kills on animals by increasing the blood channel and causing a quicker bleed out if the bullet didn't hit a vital organ like the heart or lungs, basically a more humane bullet for hunting. Other than that, they are really no different than solid shot in any other application.

By the way, hollow points are banned from use by the military as well as dum-dum bullets, bullets in which the lead is exposed or cross cut on the front by the Geneva convention, which we observe strictly.

So please, don't use the "Cop Killer" lie/fable when talking about firearms and ammunition. There really isn't such a thing.

TomW.
USN Vet. Viet Nam '67-'68



I agreed with the Dad up until he fired. Destroy a machine you just out $130 into, really? Wish I had your kind of money to waste. Next time, just reformat it and send it to me! I could really use a new computer.

I'm now wondering what sort of posts I'll find on my daughter's wall when I look. She's 17, and we have many arguments about chores. I have no idea where she got the, "I didn't do it (use dishes, dirty clothes, make garbage, etc), so I don't have to clean it up" attitude.

Oh, well, could be worse.

And, btw, what is that guy doing with explosive hollow point rounds?? I thought they were only good for penetrating kevlar vests, the so-called "Cop Killer" rounds. Any gun owner/hunter types care to tell me what else they're good for? (Besides destroying laptops).

Scott K.

[Spaceguy5]

I don't know whether to applaud him for being assertive against a seemingly spoiled brat, or cringe because my mom recently tried seizing my computer when I was just visiting her for christmas, because she was mad about a facebook post I made, where I was complaining about her stealing more than my computer's value in financial aid money from me (which I think is a good thing to be pissed about). But of course she found ways to justify taking my money, and make me sound like the anti-christ for complaining.

Hard to tell if what he said is really the whole truth or not, although either way, destroying a laptop (especially when it can be put to other uses) over words is really, really harsh. Particularly when you consider that computers and internet access are very valuable sources of knowledge and sometimes required for school.

[Scott K]

TomW,

Thanks for correcting my mistaken impression. When the guy said "explosive hollow point", all I could think of was the incorrect media info I've heard in the past. I had no idea about them being a more humane bullet for hunting, your explanantion makes much more sense than what I've heard before. I still have one point of confusion, though. Do some hunters actually use a 45 to hunt with? I know I'm pretty ignorant about most details of serious hunting, but...

As to the original issue, I've seen points on all sides I can agree with. Since most people here are more well spoken than I am, I'm going to leave further comments to others. I'm still going to talk about it later with my own daughter, that should be an interesting conversation.

Scott K.

[Spar]

My dad was was a tough old Hungarian who loved to hunt with bow and arrows rather than any quick firing weapon. He said that hunting with such a gun takes the skill and challenge out of a hunt.

He was so tough, that once when he was stalking a deer, a snake bit him on the leg. Not wanting to make any noise to scare the deer away, he ignored the bite and kept quiet and still.
After 2 hours of intense pain... the snake died.

[TomW]

Scott:

Hey, no hu-hu bro, just wanted to counter the media feces that passes for news.

As to the use of a "45" to hunt with, I would surmise that he is only referring to the use of a .45" diameter round. That is the the measured, more or less within 5 thousandths of an inch, diameter of the projectile.

Most people associate a 45 with the 1911A1 semi-automatic pistol that was used by the USA for almost 60 years as an issue side-arm for officers and other special duties. Not a gun I would choose to hunt anything with, or use other than for self defense in a deadly situation.

Actually, the most common of the old black powder muzzle-loading rifles used by the early trappers and explorers of the west was also in .45 caliber, the Hawken named after the gunsmith who first developed the design.

Also the USArmy also used a 45-70 single shot rifle during the period after the Civil War during the Indian Wars. A very powerful round, it was capable of downing a bison at ranges over 300 yards. The round was also used in the Gatling Gun of fame during the 1800's. 45-70 refered to a bullet that had a .45" projectile over 70 grains ( a unit of weight measure, I'd have to look up the conversion, but I think it is 7000 grains to the pound??? ) of black powder making it more powerful than most common hunting rounds used today.

Most hunting rounds used in the United States are ~ .30 caliber, some smaller but with higher velocity, with a few larger and or much faster used for large, dangerous, or very hard to approach, like antelope, game. Grizzly , Kodiak, and Polar bears require rounds more powerful than the 30-06 for reliable kills. Reliable meaning the bear doesn't have time to walk/run over and have you for lunch first. I mean that about the bears being dangerous, they are too large for anything smaller/less powerful than a .300 Magnum, .30" projectile over an insane amount of modern gunpowder, to reliably get a 1 round kill. Talk to the Eskimo's about who hunts who on the icepack when talking about Polar Bears.

Anyway, I'm just glad I could help you understand firearms/guns/bullets a little bit.

Remember, no gun is safe unless it is completely disassembled, so never point a firearm at anything you don't want to kill/destroy. And never believe that you can shoot to wound; Never shoot unless you are willing to kill your target.

TomW.

TomW,

Thanks for correcting my mistaken impression. When the guy said "explosive hollow point", all I could think of was the incorrect media info I've heard in the past. I had no idea about them being a more humane bullet for hunting, your explanantion makes much more sense than what I've heard before. I still have one point of confusion, though. Do some hunters actually use a 45 to hunt with? I know I'm pretty ignorant about most details of serious hunting, but...

As to the original issue, I've seen points on all sides I can agree with. Since most people here are more well spoken than I am, I'm going to leave further comments to others. I'm still going to talk about it later with my own daughter, that should be an interesting conversation.

Scott K.