P-51D Mustangs [Archive] - PaperModelers.com

Don Boose

04-16-2012, 05:05 PM

Sorry for the confusion, Dave. To a person of my age, seeing Moonbeam McSwine in the funny papers seems like a recent event. I forget that not everyone here lived through the 1940s.

Yes - Moonbeam was the disreputable version of Daisy Mae, competing for Lil Abner's affections.

Will's airplane is real, but his markings are imaginary and played on the "Moonbat-Moonbeam" resonance to use sexy, but somewhat muddy, Moonbeam McSwine as a nose art pin up.

Seeing that William Whisner's P-51D was named "Moonbeam McSwine" caused my strange little brain to make the connection and to imagine the two models, sharing a name, being displayed together.

I do apologize for this diversion . . . and if I had the skill and time, I would love to build these two models. I own both versions of Will's model and I can assure you that I will buy every one of your Mustangs in this new series. I can't promise the dream build, but I can hope.

(And I really should try to build one of your WWI four-wheelers first.)

In any event, I appreciate your making these historic aircraft available as models and thereby keeping their memory alive . . . even for people who were too young to read Lil Abner.

Don

PS: And you know, from a certain angle, it almost looks like a Corsair.

airdave

04-17-2012, 05:17 PM

Latest update on the P-51D design process....

Still working on the base model texturing.
And I still have cockpit, wheel wells, landing gear, etc to sort out.

Haven't even sorted out a first paint scheme yet!
I keep tweaking the basic details and textures.

I think I am happy with this third version...
enough that I have started applying the green cowling, and red paintwork for the Tuskegee planes.

I wasn't going to do it...but I couldn't resist...so I added rivets.

I like it...what do you think?
Not sure how well it will print.
Set the printer on "fine" high res print and it should show up.

Heres a couple of screen shots of the current texture work.

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/P51D%20Mustang/texturedetail02.jpg

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/P51D%20Mustang/texturedetail01.jpg

jagolden01

04-18-2012, 11:19 AM

I think the rivets look good, Dave.

Don Boose

04-18-2012, 12:34 PM

To my eye, those rivets are perfect.

Don

charleswlkr54

04-18-2012, 08:33 PM

I'll see if I can find the site, but I ran accross a site that had artwork for various models of P-51 in Australian service, Ithin it was for No. 3 Squadron, don't have my notebook with me, will try to post it tomorrow!

HMCS

04-18-2012, 09:36 PM

holy crap,.. that is awesome texturing and rivets!,..

YankeeBoy

04-18-2012, 10:12 PM

The subject of visible flush-riveting on scale models has a long history of debate in the modeling community. In the case of the Mustang the volume and intensity sometimes "pegs the meter." The Mustang's laminar flow airfoil was so sensitive to surface irregularities that nearly the leading half of the wing was coated with a filler, sanded smooth and painted with an aluminum colored paint. A factory-fresh Mustang would show no rivets on the wings because of this treatment. The coating deteriorated in service and did not lend itself to resurfacing in the field.

Flush rivets in 1:32 scale would have a head diameter of about .008 inches - smaller than the preceding decimal point. If you consider a viewing distance of one real foot to the model (32 feet away from the real thing) then flush rivets just aren't going to be visible. The much larger Dzus fasteners as seen on the cowling maintenance panels, yes, but flush rivets, no.

Having said that, I do not expect to change anyone's mind about "rivets vs. rivets" on scale models. It really boils down to a matter of "artistic" preference. Does one like the look of hundreds of little dots or does one prefer to limit the amount of surface structural detail to that which might be visible at the equivalent scale viewing distance? It is a matter of personal taste.

Regarding bare metal surfaces, I have always preferred the solid, pale grey (with a hint of blue) for my bare metal (similar to that on the XP-72 test build I am doing for Will Aldridge.) I prefer to let natural lighting make shadows/reflections on the model for me rather that have them applied artificially. Again, this is a matter of personal taste and the designer-artist's preference of style.

My advice to all (including myself) is to let the designer-artists do it their way and, if we don't like it, either don't purchase/build the model or repaint it yourself. Bottom line - Dave, keep on keeping on! This looks like a very interesting project and I look forward to comparing it to the previous Halinski, Marek and Zarkov designs.

cgutzmer

04-19-2012, 05:25 AM

Looks great dave! :) you got that scale cube available on your site? :)

Nik0lai

04-19-2012, 06:20 AM

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs479.ash1/26264_109433215763046_106198152753219_61369_155836 1_n.jpg
http://farm1.staticflickr.com/160/340031028_81068cb972_z.jpg?zz=1

They were flown by Brigadier General B.N.Ebuen

airdave

04-19-2012, 07:04 AM

I am actually thinking that my "rivet" details will not print that well.
I am actually expecting them to tone down or maybe even (almost) disappear) when printed.
Until I see the print output I will not be completely satisfied with the look.

I agree with most of what Yankee Boy posted...many surface "details" are just not that visible.
And this was the thinking behind my comment about "panel lines" being exaggerated on most aircraft scale models.
(This is what i thought..."if we have the panel lines, we may as well have the rivets too!")

However I will argue that rivets (or the surface deformities left by the rivets)
are quite visible from certain angles under certain lighting conditions on many aircraft.
Especially if its unpainted. (I didn't think about the surface fillers and paint coverings)

But lets be real, an overall view of every rivet line and fastener seems unlikely
and my artwork is definitely exaggerated for the purpose of scale detail and artistic license.

I know some modellers like simple solid colour outlined paper model artwork.
Personally, I avoid plain one colour graphic representations (when I can)
I like trying to simulate 3d and realistic type textures and colouring
and add non existant surface details using artwork instead of paper parts.

I will use shadows and highlights to create 3D surface details and textures in an otherwise flat piece of printed paper...

but I am not a fan of adding full 3d shading and highlighting.
For example, I have seen many aircraft wings with full 3D shading to indicate a rolled front edge,
or a darkened underside, or a highlight across the high point of the wing...

This is all wonderful artwork, when it is flat on the page
but once the part is folded/rolled and assembled it becomes its own 3D object
and will create its own 3d shading and highlights and doesn't need forced uni-directional highlighting and shading.

The forced 3D artwork will be constantly in conflict with the actual light source(s) illuminating the model.

...

Anyway, sorry to get to stuck on this topic...but I do enjoy this kind of feedback.
As I have already expressed, it allows me to try to justify my own work.
And if I can't legitimately explain why I have done something it forces me to rethink my work and make changes.

airdave

04-19-2012, 07:06 AM

They were flown by Brigadier General B.N.Ebuen

Thanks NikOlai
I have already collected quite a few photos of this plane.
It is added to my production list.

HMCS

04-19-2012, 08:21 AM

Skyraider's 3D Aviation Art - Gallery - Aircraft 7 - P-51D Mustang (http://digitalaviationart.com/skyraider3d/p-51d_359fg_2.htm)

airdave

04-19-2012, 08:35 AM

Skyraider's 3D Aviation Art - Gallery - Aircraft 7 - P-51D Mustang (http://digitalaviationart.com/skyraider3d/p-51d_359fg_2.htm)

what are ya showing me?
ya want those Mustangs?
ya like the Mighty 8th?

funny...I'm working on a 434th FS Mustang as my test build.

jagolden01

04-19-2012, 08:48 AM

OOOH! I hope to visit the Mighty 8th Museum in a couple of weeks.

HMCS

04-19-2012, 10:40 AM

what are ya showing me?
ya want those Mustangs?
ya like the Mighty 8th?

funny...I'm working on a 434th FS Mustang as my test build.

haha nah,.. just showing you sum stuff! your texturing is looking great

here is a neat checker tail

P-51 Mustang - Study 9 (http://www.highironillustrations.com/commission_studies/study_p51/p51_09.html)

HMCS

04-19-2012, 10:41 AM

"cripes a mighty" or moonshine I think would be my all time fav!,.. "Old Crow" is classic
didnt Yeager fly a mustang?

DeadlyTedly

04-19-2012, 10:55 AM

Following this with interest, Dave. As far as how much detail to add, in my opinion, if the rivets and panel lines will "almost" disappear when printed at the scale you want, then that is perfect! They should almost disappear, or only be distinct in close-up, but not be noticeable at distance. I think you are going for just the right look. Looking forward to release.

airdave

04-19-2012, 11:17 AM

I already have material on Glamorous Glen III (Yeager's Mustang)
but its a pretty boring looking plane...so its farther down the list.

Cripes a Mighty and Old Crow are both pretty common in modeling
so they too are far down my list right now.

HMCS

04-19-2012, 12:10 PM

agreed!,..

RyanShort

04-19-2012, 02:32 PM

Dave,

An 8th AF version I would vote for is "Hurry Home Honey" flown by Richard Peterson. That said, the 9th and 15th Air Forces have some less-remembered "greats" as well.

Also, I think that there is a good amount of reference material for some of the Iwo Jima Mustangs... an under-represented lot.

Ryan

RyanShort

04-19-2012, 02:34 PM

Oh, and one of the ultimate collections...

Aircraft illustration (http://www.markstyling.com/p51s_1.htm)

Ryan

airdave

04-19-2012, 04:14 PM

remember, I don't like to consider an aircraft unless I have seen some original photos and historical info.

There are some very pretty profile artworks out there, but they're quite often not a very accurate source of paint scheme information.

A lot of artists that paint these profile artworks take a little bit of artistic license...
and not every artist works from original photos and eyewitness data.
Over time, memories, facts and artwork images can degrade like copies of copies of copies.

...
having said all that, I must admit I do like Mark Styling's work!

...
and Sweet Arlene is already on my list. (I have some original photos)

RyanShort

04-19-2012, 04:16 PM

remember, I don't like to consider an aircraft unless I have seen some original photos and historical info.

There are some very pretty profile artworks out there, but they're quite often not a very accurate source of paint scheme information.

Every artist that paints one of these profile artworks takes a little bit of artistic license...
and not every artist works from original photos and eyewitness data.
Over time, memories, facts and artwork images can degrade like copies of copies of copies.

...
having said all that, I must admit I do like Mark Styling's artwork!
Considering the number of P-51 books with pictures on my shelf, I'd say that most of his profiles are a significant cut above the rest - and based on photographs.
I totally agree with your reasoning, however.

Ryan

charleswlkr54

04-19-2012, 04:44 PM

Ok, I found the address to that Australian site I was talking about it's:
http://www.3squadron.org.au/subpages/p51art.htm

charleswlkr54

04-19-2012, 04:46 PM

OOOPS! Darn typos! Lets try it again!
http://www.3squadron.org.au/subpages/051art.htm

charleswlkr54

04-19-2012, 04:49 PM

OK, that doesn't lead right to the artwork i was talking about, but if you click on it and follow directions it will get you there! "To err is human, to really foul things up requires a computer!"

airdave

04-20-2012, 10:58 AM

-Latest update copied from my Forum-

Well...print out is GOOOOD!

I am very happy with the way the colours and details have printed on my little Home printer.
I set the output to "Fine" (higher dpi)...but did not alter the colour
(I have a "vivid" colour setting on my Brother printer for increased saturation)

The rivets are not overpowering if you ask me...and would blend in more if you opted for low to normal res printing.
(Most home printers are set to "normal" or a middle quality resolution as default)

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/P51D%20Mustang/p51dprintdetail-1.jpg

I'm using an average quality 65lb cardstock and the absorption rate is pretty good.
Glossy papers would be a lot sharper...but i still don't think the rivets will be a big issue.

Since I have decided on a first paint scheme and I have the basic fuselage parts done,
I am able to start a test build.
I can assemble the front and rear halves of the fuselage, but I won't be able to attach them
until I get the Cockpit parts done.

heres where I am so far...
(one thing I did notice and fixed this morning, is the colour transition over the Prop Spinner parts.
However this might be the only aircraft model with an unpainted spinner, so it isn't really a big issue)
http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/P51D%20Mustang/pinupgirltestbuild01.jpg

willygoat

04-20-2012, 12:16 PM

I love the coloring. especially the exhaust discoloring. bravo!

plane_mc

04-20-2012, 12:43 PM

Great choice for a first subject Dave.

HMCS

04-20-2012, 05:32 PM

I love the coloring. especially the exhaust discoloring. bravo!

took the words right out of my mouth!,.. dave freakin super fantastic! rivets burnt metal,.. everything! dont change a thing! its a freakin masterpiece!!!:eek:

airdave

04-27-2012, 02:53 PM

[copied from cutandfold forum]

Its been awhile since I updated the progress, and heres why...

With the installation of the Cockpit and the assembly of the front and rear sections of the Fuselage
I found a number of things I didn't like.

And then when I tried to fit a canopy (both the supplied paper one, and a 1/33 scale vacuformed one)
I realized a number of changes were necessary.

The canopy seemed to be too short(lengthwise)...too short (heightwise)...and did not match the proper
shape (at the front) of a real P-51D canopy.
Making comparisons (using photos) I realized there were a number of fuselage differences as well.

Anyway...one change led to another...one adjustment led to three more in other areas...and eventually...

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/P51D%20Mustang/cockpitmods-1.jpg

Some of the modifications I've made inlcude:
Cockpit sides...new angles on the sides, a lower opening, improved the shape of the cockpit opening.
Cockpit interior...new sides, new stiffeners and support pieces, a number of little tweaks.
Formers...a couple of former adjustments including adding new supporting formers for the cockpit parts.
Fuselage parts...improved the connection at mid-cockpit, and altered the upper cowling area around the Instrument panel.
Instrument panel shroud...a new design to better match the real thing
Canopy...a completely new scratchbuilt design that fits the fuselage and more closely matches the real thing.

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/P51D%20Mustang/cockpitmods2.jpg

I am happy enough to continue with the design and test build.
Not sure if I will completely finish the "PinUpGirl" since it has the "old" cockpit and fuselage
and the new canopy doesn't fit it
but its still a good test bed for the rest of the build.

I'll most likely do another "first" build...maybe a Tuskegee plane?

mbauer

04-27-2012, 09:18 PM

Great looking textures Dave!

PinUpGirl is awesome! It was so hot that even my laptop fan started to make new noises while viewing/reading this thread!!

Mike

airdave

04-27-2012, 09:55 PM

Thanks Mike...it was big relief to finally sort out the Canopy!
You can see four of my failed attempts in that last photo.

Other than a small tweak to the tapered end, the Canopy sitting
on the test section is the final...and this allows me to move on to
the Wing components today.

HMCS

04-28-2012, 08:10 AM

still Aces Airdave!,.. mistakes or not that is still some great pics of a freakin awesome future model! glad to hear you fought through it!

HMCS

04-30-2012, 07:54 AM

vacuum canopies available through you as well?

airdave

04-30-2012, 08:08 AM

vacuum canopies available through you as well?

heres a little tidbit...
I am working on my own "online store"
Just another way of broadcasting my models and a way to offer some other options.

In no way will it be competition with ecardmodels
...in fact all my digital models will still be available at ecardmodels
and I will just link to the listings in the same way I do now on my website.

But I also want to offer some CD compilations of my models
and some pre-printed kits that I have collected.

And I also thought about offering some accessories for my models
....like plastic Canopies.
But this hinged on the idea of collecting suitable canopies that would properly fit my models.

So, I bought a P-51D canopy and gave it a try.
(you can see it on the photo above)
Supposed to be 1/33 but I found it to be way too small.
It was also the wrong shape.
(D model Mustangs have a wide rectangular front window, not narrow and rounded at the top like this canopy is)

Obviously if it doesn't fit my model, then theres no point in offering it.
Who knows, still might be something out there.

HMCS

04-30-2012, 08:13 AM

sweet,.. nothing wrong with selling your own work

airdave

05-01-2012, 07:56 AM

[copied from CutandFold Forum...]

Okay, much work continuith....

Big thanks to Ted over at ArmyAirForces Forum who has supplied me with "Special Project Numbers"
for a many of the P-51s I plan to offer (as repaint versions)

I know this is a very small detail on the aircraft, and unless you have a printer that can print
high dpi, it may not even be that visible on the printed model...but that doesn't mean I don't
want to try to be as realistic as possible with the paintscheme and markings.

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/P51D%20Mustang/wingstencil.jpg

...

The Wing Spar assembly went together as expected, however the parts are lightweight, and some of
the slots and cutouts create some very thin sections.
It is definitely a handle carefully and take your time assembly.

I also added some spreader braces that really strengthen the entire assembly and help keep it all square.

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/P51D%20Mustang/pinupgirlwingspar.jpg

...

Wheel Well boxes are an oddly shaped item, not only in overall shape, but the side walls are heavily angled
to match the profile of the Wings...so its a confusing fold and glue item. Again, take your time and it goes together
quite nicely. I added fold and glue tabs for the edges but these are a bit of a problem since they enlarge the overall
size of the wheel boxes and I needed to trim the Spar cutouts to get the assembly into place.

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/P51D%20Mustang/wheelwellsp51d.jpg

...

As a result of my adding tabs and trimming things...and as a result of my quick and dirty build style...
I am having some trouble getting everything to line up perfectly.

The Spar assembly needs to be properly cut and assembled squarely.
The Wheel Well boxes need to be carefully assembled (maybe with thinner paper glue tabs? or maybe even edge glued)...

The Wheel well boxes have to line up perfectly with the wing cutouts...theres no room for misalignment here.
But the Wing skins also have to fit onto the Spar assembly.

This is the very first time I have ever built a recessed wheel well assembly like this and I obviously have a lot to learn.
But even with my inexperience and adjustments, the wing still went together! So I am still very positive about this!

...

Since I am also designing the Landing Gear parts, I decided to do a test build of those at the same time.
I am experimenting with some inside part for the Doors to make them more 3D and make the
outer Door fit better against the gear supports.

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/P51D%20Mustang/maingear.jpg

Inner Doors also have some cutout layering to add 3D effect.

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/P51D%20Mustang/wheelwelldoors.jpg

...

Wing from above looks pretty good too...just got to add the wingtip parts.

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/P51D%20Mustang/wingskins.jpg

This design, like other Mustang paper models, use small paper parts and short tubes to add the Machine Gun
ports to the leading edge of the wing.
Although these wing ports are expanded "bumps" in the front edge of the Wing, they are hardly "tubes".
The scale model effect always sticks out way to far in my opinion.

Not to mention the fact that the parts to create these Gun Ports are extremely small and difficult to assemble!

I decided to go a different way and use some surface artwork to simulate the gun port bulges.
If nothing else it caters to lesser skilled builders (as I generally try to do with a lot of my adjustments).

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/P51D%20Mustang/wingguns.jpg

...
I'm not 100% happy with the way the Gear recesses line up with the Spar cutouts and then with the Wing openings.
I'm not happy with the trims I had to make to get it all to fit together.

But I think my problems were all caused by my own actions...not the design of any of the parts.

So I am going to rethink a couple of modifications...make a couple of adjustments
and give the wing another try, this time with more care and accuracy.
I might even ask for a test build (if anyone is interested)...after I get some Instruction diagrams sorted out.

thorst

05-01-2012, 08:26 AM

Wow! Especially the wheel well boxes look absolutely great!

Thorsten

HMCS

05-01-2012, 09:14 AM

brilliant,.. gun ports had me fooled!

cMags

05-01-2012, 11:15 AM

Beautiful work on the wheel wells Dave! If you're looking for just another test build on the wings/spars/wells section, I can do it. Just don't have time for a full build...

airdave

05-01-2012, 11:45 AM

Did the paint stripped version of Old Crow ever exist without Invasion striping?

To be honest, I am so tired of D-Day stripes as a paint scheme.
All these restos done in this paint scheme have gotten too common.

I really would like to do ETO aircraft in original wartime paintschemes...but pre D-Day if they existed.

HMCS

05-01-2012, 11:50 AM

there was a silver scheme of it,.. dunno if there was I-stripes on it,.. there is also the olive drab version but I thing it was an older model

airdave

05-01-2012, 12:44 PM

we already know there was a silver scheme...
and there is a green D model
and the B/C model in green.

but the question is was the green paint stripped off
prior to applying the the invasion striping
or for the purpose of applying the invasion striping?
or was the invasion striping already in place before the green paint was removed?

cMags

05-01-2012, 12:50 PM

The silver version was late '44, so there was a version with reduced stripes (single black stripe on upper/lower wingroot surfaces, upper/lower elevator surfaces, and black/white/black on underside of fuselage around radiator dump port.

Check the page: p51ddetailpage (http://www.cebudanderson.com/p51ddetailpage.htm) and look at notes I and K. That's about the fewest stripes you'll see on the D model Old Crow. :rolleyes:

airdave

05-01-2012, 01:01 PM

funny! lol I'm just reading Bud's notes as you typed this.

I love the explanations about how invasion stripes (as well as other paintwork) was
done in the field and modifications didn't always follow any specific measurements or placements.
Painters and Pilots being allowed to follow a pattern with things, but also allowed to deviate quite a bit.

Anyway, I'm deciding the D model had the striping when it was green.
And then it was scrubbed down to bare metal.
Striping stayed and was probably repainted/touched up.
But the white stripes were removed leaving only one white inner stripe below the side roundel.
And yes...Striping on the fuselage is the lower half stripe effect.

Okay, so I will create a set of wings with the single black invasion stripe.
It will also function for any other bare metal, invasion striped aircraft I do.
Then Chris, if you want to try a set of wings, I will get you the parts.

cMags

05-01-2012, 01:06 PM

Sure, if you're just looking for a confirmation that the parts fit properly, I'd be happy to build a set of wings. They may be the wrong coloring as my printer is on the fritz, but the structural test will be satisfied.

HMCS

05-01-2012, 01:23 PM

If you using photoshop ,.. I have a great set of de-stressed brushes that are pre programmed to chip away the paint I can send you the brushes if you would like

John Bowden

05-01-2012, 06:27 PM

If you using photoshop ,.. I have a great set of de-stressed brushes that are pre programmed to chip away the paint I can send you the brushes if you would like

If Dave dosen't I would LOVE to have them! If that's possible.

john

HMCS

05-01-2012, 07:10 PM

If Dave dosen't I would LOVE to have them! If that's possible.

john

no problem,.. send a PM with your email

HMCS

05-01-2012, 07:11 PM

I will also post a separate thread on how to use it

richkat

05-01-2012, 08:15 PM

Dave looking FANTASTIC so far....Hey if your tired of invasion stripes how about some racing Mustangs...some great paint jobs out there.....Rich

127337 127338

airdave

05-02-2012, 05:34 PM

oh great...stripes that go all the way across many parts.
and squiggly stripes too!
lovely
you really don't like me do you

richkat

05-02-2012, 05:39 PM

Hey I have faith in your ability...YOU CAN DO IT!!.....LOL....Rich

richkat

05-02-2012, 05:51 PM

Hey how about this one..its easy..Rich

127440

Uyraell

05-02-2012, 07:43 PM

EEP!
Cotton Candy pink or Fuschia are NOT colours I would ever associate with a P51, however much modified it be.
That thing maketh me shudder in horror.

Kind and Respectful Regards, Uyraell.

richkat

05-02-2012, 08:28 PM

EEP!
Cotton Candy pink or Fuschia are NOT colours I would ever associate with a P51, however much modified it be.
That thing maketh me shudder in horror.

Kind and Respectful Regards, Uyraell.

OK your right I'm sorry....Don't hate me.....Rich

airdave

05-02-2012, 09:08 PM

haha thats too funny
you guys are exactly my favorite targets!

it is because the plane is Pink, that I WILL add it to the list!
(probably my mostest favoritest colour!)

http://jmquilts.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/pink-crayon.jpg

so, I guess you aren't gonna like the Hood of my old car then?
(only reason the entire car didn't go Pink, was because I ran out of paint!)

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t6/outlawzairbrushcom/artwork/TheHoodOfMyCar.jpg

richkat

05-02-2012, 09:22 PM

OHHHHHOT....Rich

Lewis H Osborn

05-02-2012, 09:33 PM

hey Dave,l've been building mustangs for many years,and have never seen Lew lv E -2C thank you for your good work.......Lew

HMCS

05-03-2012, 08:56 AM

OHHHHHOT....Rich
yessiree! AMEN!!!

Uyraell

05-03-2012, 09:06 AM

I have to admit, the Cotton Candy pink on a P51 makes me shudder as much as the White, Pink, and Gold FM4 Wildcat that appeared around 1973. Fortunately, someone with sanity rescued the Wildcat from its' purgatory, and repainted it in military colours during the 1990s.

As for the car bonnet: it is a very nice image, and beautifully executed.
Though I can't help but think of a lass I once knew, who looked very much like the lass illustrated, and who could and did weild a Katana, Shinai, or Bokken with consumate skill. She was a colleague of mine, at the time.

@ Rich: I'd not hate a man for an opinion or contribution such as that Pink P51 pic. :)
I'd seriously question the sanity of the person who chose that colour for the aircraft, and put the poor suffering machine through such painting purgatory.

Kind and Respectful Regards my friends, Uyraell.

Swampfox

05-03-2012, 11:17 AM

Anybody here ever hear of Sue Parish and her pink P-40N? She was a well known air racer and one of the founders of the Kalamazoo Air Zoo......

She based her planes paint scheme of the fact that P-40's that flew in Africa during WWII would turn pink after a couple of months in the African sun..

Check this link out:
http://media.mlive.com/kzgazette_impact/photo/suzanne-parishs-pink-curtiss-p-40-warhawk-hangs-in-the-lobby-of-the-air-zoo-baac1176f4ee7716.jpeg

SFX

Uyraell

05-03-2012, 11:34 AM

Heard of, but not until now, seen, Swampfox. :)
Thank you for the link, a most interesting image.

I can confirm the "Desert Pink" colouration on WW2 P40s in Nth Africa.
My uncle frequently saw the aircraft.

Kind and Respectful Regards SFX, Uyraell.

Wyvern

05-03-2012, 01:21 PM

Anything U.S. with racy noseart, Dave!

And given the postwar use of the "D" model, there's plenty of other possibilities- Sweden, Israel, Guatemala, the USAF in Korea and in Guard units stateside (many very colorful), El Salvador, South Africa and Australia flew them during Korea....

I've got some color profiles I could share.

Wyvern

richkat

05-03-2012, 05:26 PM

Hey if pink is good enough for the X-15 then then pink is good enough for a Mustang!......Rich

127565

airdave

05-03-2012, 05:51 PM

back to the model design....

Got cmags doing a wing test build for me
and I am doing another wing build myself (tonight).

Just tweaking and fine tuning things.

In preparation of a new wing to attach to my fuselage
I assembled the gear and doors last night.
Still rethinking the attachment bracket for the gear door.
Not quite the real thing, but because of the scale of these parts
I was trying to do something a little easier to assemble.
As I said, I am still rethinking this part.

other than that, the gear looks okay and the raised panels for
the doors works well too.

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/P51D%20Mustang/P51DGear.jpg

richkat

05-03-2012, 07:03 PM

Gear looks GREAT Dave.....Rich

HMCS

05-04-2012, 11:18 AM

landing gear looks awesome!

RyanShort

05-05-2012, 09:01 AM

Hey how about this one..its easy..Rich

127440
Just an FYI, that's supposed to be a light metallic purple.

P-51 Mustang Survivors: " Miss Van Nuys " , N64CL - serial #: 44-74423 Sights, Sounds, History. (http://www.mustangsmustangs.com/p-51/p51survivors/pages/44-74423.shtml)

Ryan

richkat

05-05-2012, 09:07 AM

Thanks Ryan those are some good pics....Rich

airdave

05-05-2012, 09:08 AM

oh I don't like any more then

richkat

05-05-2012, 11:24 AM

Ohhh http://smilearchive.com/s/contrib/dvv/asthanos.gif crap....Rich

airdave

05-07-2012, 09:33 AM

The "Penultimate" Update...
(always wanted to use that in a post)

I say penultimate, because I think its getting down to the wire now!
This test build requires a few more small items to compete it,
but other than that I have completed the "test" part and made almost all the necessary adjustments.

As you can see "Pinup Girl" is sitting on her wheels now.

[having a little trouble with my Camera flash unit...seems to be overdoing it. All my recent pics are overexposed
and over contrasted. I'm doing my best to tone them down in post editing. I have changed camera settings so
I think something has gone wrong with my flash itself.]

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/P51D%20Mustang/pinupgirlonherwheels.jpg

I finished the wing installation by gluing the assembly into place
then fitting the wing root fairings
and the belly scoop.
A little rushed I know...but for the purposes of establishing fit and adjustments.

You can also see the installed Landing gear including the newly designed Tail gear.

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/P51D%20Mustang/pinupgirlunderside.jpg

Front gear doors in place...I still have to attach the Tail gear doors.
And, as I said, a few other small parts to attach and then shes done.

Next step for me is to finish the Instruction pages and diagrams.
Then I will make Pinup Girl the first release.
Also time to start making a list of planned repaints!

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/P51D%20Mustang/pinupgirlondeck.jpg

cMags

05-07-2012, 10:19 AM

Looking good Dave!

Wyvern

05-07-2012, 11:36 AM

Nice!

Wyvern

Rapidtox

05-07-2012, 12:31 PM

Wonderful bird!

plane_mc

05-07-2012, 12:38 PM

I'm glad you are releasing Pinup Girl. That is one I have wanted to do in plastic for a while, but don't have the decals. That is my favorite Vargas girl.

richkat

05-07-2012, 02:26 PM

You are the man Dave (wow that sounded 80's)...Rich

airdave

05-07-2012, 05:21 PM

Just an FYI regarding Pinup Girl...
the Vargas girl was added to the plane at a later date,
but I have no information as to whether it was painted on the right side.
Since it is a more complicated piece of artwork, there is a good chance
it was only painted once.

Obviously the image used on this model (and in the available profile artworks)
is a cut and paste of the Vargas pinup artwork.
The original noseart was probably not quite as well done
as most of the painters were good artists but not not Vargas caliber.

I would have liked to have seen a photo of the actual noseart to work from,
but in this case I am stuck with using cut and pasted Vargas artwork.

If anyone comes across any actual photos of the noseart please send them to me.

(Interesting sidenote: I painted this exact same pinup girl on the sides of a Bike tank a few years back. One of my favorites too!)

airdave

05-08-2012, 02:10 PM

Pinup Girl is finished!
Working on the instruction pages now.
Then I just have to make up a cover and PDF package.
Then I can release the kit and start working on repaints.
For now, please enjoy some photos.

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/P51D%20Mustang/P-51DPrototype001.jpg

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/P51D%20Mustang/P-51DPrototype002.jpg

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/P51D%20Mustang/P-51DPrototype003.jpg

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/P51D%20Mustang/P-51DPrototype004.jpg

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/P51D%20Mustang/P-51DPrototype005.jpg

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/P51D%20Mustang/P-51DPrototype006.jpg

You will notice in the photos, that I added simple parts to create an open Radiator vent door.

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/P51D%20Mustang/P-51DPrototype007.jpg

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/P51D%20Mustang/P-51DPrototype008.jpg

cMags

05-08-2012, 02:45 PM

Dave, that is a fantastic looking Mustang! :cool:

wag

05-08-2012, 03:20 PM

Looks gorgeous Dave!
To be technical that's the oil cooler door. There's a larger door further back that controls the air through the radiator. Check out the 12th and 13th photos here.
North American P-51D in Detail (Revisited) - Fuselages (http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2005/12/stuff_eng_detail_p51d_01.htm)
Wayne

airdave

05-08-2012, 03:40 PM

okay...you know the little door that lets the hamster out when it gets tired?
Thats what it is.

cMags

05-08-2012, 03:49 PM

Any thoughts on adding a radiator door too?

airdave

05-08-2012, 05:26 PM

Any thoughts on adding a radiator door too?

no...but thanks for reminding me of something I forgot!

When I started this project, I thought of a few things I was going to try to add.
The cooling doors underneath were two of those things.
The small forward door was an easy addition, but the larger rear door
would interfere with the internal and external assembly of that area.
I didn't want to have to redesign the formers and skins so I dropped the idea.

But the original template did not have the lines in place for the doors in that area,
so I decided the very least I needed to do was add the panel lines for the two vent doors.

I decided to revisit the doors and came up with a simple way of adding that forward door.
And I got so wrapped up in adding that forward door, I forgot all about the rear door artwork!
So, I just put it in.

Now I'm thinking, maybe I can add a similar type of add-on part for the rear door. I'll have to do more study!

airdave

05-09-2012, 10:02 AM

okay, hows this?
I did a quick test last night...had to resize the parts...but the idea worked fine.

I have added parts for simulated open venting doors.
If you want to add the partially open doors, you need only cut two
slits in the fuselage, down the sides of the marked door location
and then fit the open door part in.

You can add one, either or both doors.

The rear door is bigger and opens more so the fuselage is still visible.
For this I have added a 2D part with a visible radiator.
Just glue it in place before fitting the open vent door.

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/P51D%20Mustang/p51ddoorsdetail.jpg

clif52

05-09-2012, 10:13 AM

Nice looking Mustang Dave. This might be off subject but if I buy one of your planes to build is it possible to open up the parts in Photoshop and do some recoloring. I've been working on a paint design to make a Captain America styled Mustang. Since he flew one of the Red Skull's fighters and the flying wing in the movie I thought it would make a different display to make him a fighter plane. His helmet in the movie was basically a aviation helmet retooled. I found a 6 inch action figure of him on sale at Walmart yesterday and I have a friend that has a poster printer. I'd like to finish my design, layer it over your plane and get it blown up to scale on the poster printer.

Clif

airdave

05-09-2012, 10:30 AM

Wyvern

05-09-2012, 11:42 AM

Gorgeous 'Stang, Dave!

Wyvern

plane_mc

05-09-2012, 12:52 PM

That looks fantastic Dave.

clif52

05-09-2012, 01:36 PM

My models are not layered for editing.
Thats not to say you couldn't open the PDF file in any editing program
and deal with it like you would any sort of image file. jpeg, etc.

Adding new colours, graphics, etc can easily be done with overlays and transparencies.
Removing any unwanted elements from the original images
would be your most time consuming work.

Note...please don't ask for a blank model. lol you ain't gettin' one!

No problem with the editing Dave. I can do the work. I just wanted to check to see if the files are locked, and if its OK with you. I'm still working on the graphics for the design. I do love the look of the model and the details.

Clif:)

airdave

05-09-2012, 09:31 PM

What about Wing Tanks?

I notice not one person has suggested this addition, so maybe this is just a wasted effort?
This is the third attempt at some tanks and Wing Pylons.
I don't think I am going to bother going any further with the design.

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/P51D%20Mustang/P5097147.jpg
http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/P51D%20Mustang/P5097146.jpg

cMags

05-09-2012, 09:39 PM

I thought I had posted a suggestion on wing tanks, but seems I never did. Yes! Wing Tanks! Both the metal teardrop ones you show above, and the more cylindrical "paper tanks" that you see in many period photos (though the paper tanks may not have been used on the -D models - I just want them for my -B model lol). They'd be a great addition! They look good to me as you show them, what else needed to be done?

airdave

05-09-2012, 10:13 PM

I think they could be refined to go together a lot cleaner
but to be honest I got a little frustrated with them
and now I have just lost interest.

I will include what you see, in the kits.

airdave

05-13-2012, 06:56 AM

Still working hard to get the Instruction pages finished.
I'm also renumbering the parts, so its slowed me down quite a bit.

And today I am off to see The Avengers (with my kid)...so no work until later.

Didn't get much done on the Instructions yesterday because I decided to make a major
modification to Pin Up Girl.
Seems I did exactly what I said you should never do... rely on profile Artworks!

In this case, there isn't much visual reference for Pin Up Girl.
And I was forced to refer to Mark Styling's lovely profile artwork of Pin Up Girl.

Not sure why I did this, but I laid out the noseart based on his artwork.

And yesterday, I was studying the only picture I have of the real Pin Up Girl
and I noticed that the noseart name was not in the same position as my model.
On my model its much larger, longer, taller and stretches across a lot more of the Engine cowling.

I don't know why I didn't pay attention to this before...maybe thinking too much
about the design of new Mustang model?
But, its totally wrong...and so I decided yesterday I was not happy with it and so
I created new Noseart lettering.
This time I used an actual photo, of the actual noseart as it was being painted on the actual plane!
sheesh
now I might have to rebuild my model

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/P51D%20Mustang/MODIFIEDNOSEART.jpg

airdave

05-20-2012, 02:05 PM

so...I got this Mustang I need test built.
Its some Asian paint scheme.
I thought it might be of interest to someone?
Anyone?

Would you like to do a fast test build?
Email me if you are interested.

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/P51D%20Mustang/zambalestestprint.jpg

The Orange

05-20-2012, 02:14 PM

YES YES YES!

YES YES YES YES!

Dave! Can I do a test build!?!?

airdave

05-20-2012, 03:05 PM

sure thing John!
email has been sent!

airdave

05-24-2012, 02:08 PM

I just added two new Tuskegee Mustangs to the collection
and they are now available at ecardmodels.

Look for the Kit announcement.

...

Any specific Tuskegee planes that anyone is interested in?

I have plans to do many more Tuskegee Mustangs, but there are so
many to choose from...

...

Two more Mustangs coming next week.
One American and one Philippine!
Working on final touches...new artwork...and cover art.

please let me know if there is a plane you are interested in seeing as a model.

richkat

05-25-2012, 02:22 PM

Dave how about a P-51 in German colors...only found one drawing but i know i'v seen more somewhere....129984...Or how about making a P-82 Twin Mustang, allways my favorite plane....Rich

richkat

05-25-2012, 02:25 PM

Also found a good link to pics of Moonbeam McSwine Warbird Depot - Fighters > Vlado Lenoch's North American P-51D Mustang (http://www.warbirddepot.com/aircraft_fighters_p51-lenoch.asp)
check it out some great pics....Rich

airdave

05-25-2012, 02:48 PM

I did think about the P-82, but it might be too much of a design project right now.
Might be something I would look at in the future if i had nothing else to do.

German?...looks interesting...if I can find some real pics.
The captured planes are always interesting.
I did come across a Japanese one...I will try to find the reference again.

Moonbeam...yes, I have seen those pics.
I need to compare the current paint scheme with the original plane though.
Many current renditions are quite often very different from the original.
"Bunnie" is a good example of that.

YankeeBoy

05-25-2012, 05:08 PM

The P/F-82 is already available as an excellent, detailed model in several markings from Gremir Models.

The length and breadth of service of the P-51D presents literally hundreds of candidate color/markiing options. I would prefer (1) WW2 and post-WW2 USAAF/USAF schemes, (2) RAF/RAAF/RNZAF/RCAF schemes of the same period, (3) "Second owner" nations' aircraft, especially from Central and South America. Modern restorations, racers and the rare captured aircraft don't really float my boat but I can see where they could be of interest to others.

I'm happy to let Dave publish the versions that interest him and I thank him for what appears to be an accurate, build-able model of an iconic aircraft. Thanks, Dave!!

airdave

05-25-2012, 05:51 PM

See? theres a good reason to get out of doing a Twin Mustang! lol

Although I am not against some newer stuff, I have to agree with YB.
Theres plenty of WW2 and post War Stangs to choose from!
I could never run out of cool looking birds.
But I do love some of the newer paint schemes, especially the racers.

But another problem I have with some of the racers and such
is that they are modified P51s which means I have to start
making new wings and things.
I'm not sure I want to get into that right now.

I definitely want to do one or two Canadian versions, along with some other nationalities.
I've got the Philippines AF Shark coming soon
...not my personal favorite as far as graphics and markings,
but still cool that it is a Philippines version.

gee, I wonder if there are any Thai Mustangs?

richkat

05-25-2012, 06:15 PM

[QUOTE=airdave;294892]See? theres a good reason to get out of doing a Twin Mustang! lol

But your F-82 would be so much better Dave!.......Rich

65Cycl0ne

05-26-2012, 06:25 PM

How about this one Dave. From the506th FG on Iwo Jima. The the 15th, 21st and 506th FGs had some interesting tail feathers.
http://506thfightergroup.org/Images/historypage/Wes-Murphy_591.jpg

airdave

05-26-2012, 07:28 PM

well, forgiving the political incorrectness,
I like the fact that its a good photo of the cowling lettering.
I would need to see more of the artwork behind the man's head
and find more reference to the specific aircraft.

I will definitely look into that one.

John Bowden

05-26-2012, 08:01 PM

Hey Dave check this out

Wes Murphy: 506th Fighter Group, 457 Fighter Squadron, 458 Fighter Squadron, 462 Fighter Squadron Wes Murphey 463291 (http://www.506thfightergroup.org/Pilot_Wes_Murphey_P51_463291.asp)

airdave

05-26-2012, 09:44 PM

Well thats a start! thanks John.

I guess this means I have to look further at this one.

I see something interesting right off the bat...
the disc painted on the cowling is obviously the background of the 457th badge
...but its only the background. The Mosquito(?) riding a Machine gun isn't there.

http://www.506thfightergroup.org/images/patches/457th200.gif

Either this photo is taken before the artwork was finished
or that is the finished noseart.

But I notice the plane in the background of the photo also has the same unfinished
logo...which leads me to think that for simplicity, they may not have used the entire artwork.

http://www.506thfightergroup.org/Images/457th/Murphey_650.jpg

3Turner

05-26-2012, 10:55 PM

Or the possibility that the photo was taken before the mosquito was added to the artwork and was added shortly after the photo was taken.

John Bowden

05-26-2012, 11:38 PM

Well not to toss in another monkey in the works, I've found a SuperScale Decal set that shows the whole mosquito badge, but shows that the tail marking were NOT solid but in fact striped.......... the good thing is the SuperScale decals show 4 different references used.

Ain't it great when it's SO easy to find good aircraft marking information.......... (sarcasm intended):)

http://flightdecs.ca/images_a_superscale/SS481152.jpg

YankeeBoy

05-26-2012, 11:56 PM

506th Fighter Group, Iwo Jima, 1945 (http://www.506thfightergroup.org/506thsquadrons.asp)

I would appear that the SuperScale decals are incorrect.

airdave

05-27-2012, 06:51 AM

I have been through the photo gallery on that site...specifically focused on 457th.
(since we are talking about Nip Nocker right now)

According to photos, description and the various little profile drawings
457th tail is solid green.

There seems to be a lot of aircraft, with (apparently) finished paintwork
that have the disc artwork with no insect/gun.
There are just as many with complete logos.

I can't see the noseart painters painting background discs on numerous aircraft before painting the central artwork?
So, I'm guessing that some Pilot's did not want the complete logo?
Maybe they weren't insect lovers? lol

This is an interesting question for me.
Whether I place the complete 457th badge or just the background disc, its the same amount of work for me
...I am only concerned with the idea of simulating the actual aircraft as it looked in service.

[attachments] here are two aircraft that don't appear to be in the middle of painting.

YankeeBoy

05-27-2012, 07:20 AM

The squadron emblems were often transfers similar to modelling decals. I suspect that there were two in this case - the background and the gun-toting bug. Application may have been done in batches with most of the photos showing the aircraft in an incomplete stage. A fun little mystery...

airdave

05-27-2012, 07:46 AM

okay, this I did NOT know.
Transfers? decals?

I was always under the impression that everything was painted!

This makes perfect sense now.
of course, these are first stages of a decal application.
And these decals are applied long after the noseart paintwork is done
which explains the varied positions of the Logos.

From other photos in the 457th photo gallery, you can see that these
logos were only applied on the left side cowling.
Some planes do have noseart on the right, some do not.

A marvelous fluke is the fact that there is a photo showing the right side
of Nip Nocker...and you can see the noseart!
[second aircraft in line]

Swampfox

05-27-2012, 09:53 AM

okay, this I did NOT know.
Transfers? decals?

I was always under the impression that everything was painted!

I don't know about nose art being decals, but I have seen images of pilots and ground crew applying "Kill" marks, usually flags, being applied to the fuselage of their aircraft....and they do look a-lot like "decals" of some sort. Maybe not water decals like we're use to today, but some sort of peel and stick artwork of some kind.

I never thought about the same process being used for nose art.....why not.

Swampfox

YankeeBoy

05-27-2012, 10:38 AM

True - the decals were limited to items used on multiple aircraft (like squadron markings.) Personalized nose art was normally hand-painted by artistic crew chiefs or armorers.

65Cycl0ne

05-27-2012, 08:54 PM

I read about the 506th a few years back and was very impressed with what the P-51 pilots had to endure. Imagine sitting in that cockpit for 14 hours, fighting your way into Japan to protect the B-29's and then flying all the way back to Iwo Jima and sometimes landing in the dark. On a daily basis.

Thanks for even considering this one Dave!

Travis.

airdave

05-31-2012, 07:22 AM

Heres the latest updates on Mustang work...

Tuskegee Airmen aircraft Bunnie and Creamers Dream released last week.
Two new P51Ds should be available shortly.
Shark of Zambales (Philippines AF) and USAF "American Maid" have both been shipped out to the store.

I am currently working on two more Tuskegee Red Tails, "Little Freddie" and "Duchess Arlene"*.
(*two very notable Tuskegee airmen)

And...I am doing some research for the followup models, one of which is "Nip Nocker", a special request
and probably not the only Iwo Mustang I will do.

I have a question for you Iwo Mustang experts:
on Nip Nocker, there are some "Mission" markers under the cockpit canopy.
They look like little Flags.
I found another photo of the same markers on another aircraft from the same group, but unfortnately
the photos are too poor for me to get a real good idea of what is actually on those "flags".

I have mocked up some markers for my model...does anyone know how accurate I am?

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/P51D%20Mustang/NIPNOCKERDETAIL2.jpg

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/P51D%20Mustang/NIPNOCKERDETAIL.jpg

doctormax

05-31-2012, 07:30 AM

that looks really nicely done dave

Dimitar

05-31-2012, 07:34 AM

So, I have been planning this for some time
and now its finally happening!

A new series of Mustang kits...D Models.

First off some more Tuskegee planes.
Hopefully some Canadian planes
and then...
well, to be honest, I am open to suggestions.

I am still in the early design stages...
and I am maintaining a progress thread on my Forum.
I'll try to update here regularly,
but if you want to keep an eye on the entire design process, you can keep tabs HERE (http://cutandfold.info/cutandfoldforum/index.php?topic=135.0)

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/P51D%20Mustang/p51Dwork.jpg
Nice!!!!! but please could u tell me which program your using to design it?

65Cycl0ne

05-31-2012, 07:45 AM

Dave, The first 6 flags are VLR (Very Long Range) Mission badges. They are a sillouette of a B-29 and two Mustangs in formation. The other two are a bombing/strafing mission badge with a bomb and .50 cal machine gun. Looks spot on.

65Cycl0ne

05-31-2012, 07:46 AM

http://www.506thfightergroup.org/Images/462nd/linfante/Ed-in-color_650.jpg

airdave

05-31-2012, 08:34 AM

65cyclone...thats kind of what I saw in the B/W photos.
Which means my little renderings are pretty close? excellent

Ignoring that colourized photo, would you say the markings are black and white as I have them?
Using a colour, unless it is red, doesn't really make sense to me?

...

Dimitar... I work with a few different programs, but most of my artwork and
photowork is done in Corel.

For this model, the original 3D creation was done in Rhino (by Nobi).
I commissioned the basic 3D template to my own specs
since complete fuselages and overall wing shapes are a little beyond my Rhino skills!
And I wanted a more complicated structure for this 1/33 design
with full cockpit and wheelwells.

From the basic Rhino design (which is outputted as a vector template),
I import it into Corel and start disassembling it...

then its a case of redrawing the entire model as a Corel vector,
and then I start modifying everything and adding all my new parts.
Colours and textures are also done mainly in CorelDraw and Corel PhotoPaint.

cnhalfpap

05-31-2012, 10:30 AM

I agree with idea of some Pacific mustangs !

65Cycl0ne

05-31-2012, 11:03 AM

Black and white looks right to me Dave.

RyanShort

06-01-2012, 10:28 PM

Dave,

Just for the record, I have known some WWII Iwo P-51 pilots and at least one of them told me that the paint was always coming off due to the extended missions and the environment on Iwo. I've got pictures for instance of Stinger VII (a pretty famous Mustang as Iwo birds go) and there are at least three or four variations on the markings during the time period I've seen photos of it.

Ryan

RyanShort

06-02-2012, 08:28 PM

Here are some more color photos...

Warbird Information Exchange • View topic - Mustangs in Color by request (http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=45871)

Ryan

ashevilleangler

06-03-2012, 10:12 PM

Here's another suggestion for a model of a very ill-fated Mustang and UFO incident. On January 7, 1948 a UFO was observed by the control tower at Goodman field Fort Knox, Kentucky. Captain Thomas F. Mantell a WWII vet and Kentucky ANG pilot was leading a flight of four Mustangs on a return trip to their Louisville KY. base. Without the benefit of oxygen, Capt. Mantell chased the object up to 30,000 ft. His aircraft then began a long spiraling descent ultimately crashing in a farmers field.

This event fueled a growing national hysteria over UFO's and flying saucers.
Even at this date it remains surrounded by controversy and mystery.

Here's a photo:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8026/7332908884_0d2c46961e.jpg

If you have some interest in pursuing it, I'll look for more photos.

Curt

airdave

06-04-2012, 06:31 AM

So, if he died, how does anyone know what he saw or thought he was chasing?
Or if he was chasing anything at all... maybe he just wanted to see 30,000ft?

More info/photos would be great, thanks.

jagolden01

06-04-2012, 07:55 AM

Radio communications?

YankeeBoy

06-04-2012, 08:43 AM

There is a Wiki article (search for Mantell UFO) but it is typical UFO (non-conclusive) stuff.

Wyvern

06-08-2012, 08:18 PM

AirDave's two newest P-51D's - Duchess Arlene and Little Freddie from the Tuskeegee Airmen- are now available at Ecardmodels.com!

Wyvern

airdave

06-08-2012, 08:58 PM

Yup, thats right (thanks Wyvern!)..
two more P51Ds added, and two more Tuskegee Heroes!

....
To date, the new P51D collection, includes:

"Pin Up Girl" Lt. John C Donnell
"American Maid" Lt. Eugene Sears

"Shark of Zambales" Philippine AF

Tuskegee Red Tails
"Creamers Dream" Lt. Charles White
"Bunnie" Capt Roscoe Brown
"Duchess Arlene" Lt. Robert Williams
"Little Freddie" Lt. Freddie Hutchins

....

and coming soon!

"Nip Nocker" Lt. Wes Murphy
"Hubert" Capt. Rene Burtner
"Old Crow" Clarence Anderson

cMags

06-09-2012, 03:11 AM

....

"Old Crow" Clarence Anderson

Aww yea! Clear the bench for another Mustang build! :cool:

Swampfox

06-09-2012, 05:53 AM

I was wondering why many of the serial numbers are unknown for the Tuskegee P-51's?

Is this a common problem with all aircraft flown in WWII? Were the records lost, destroyed, etc........any ideas?

Just curious,

SFX

airdave

06-09-2012, 06:33 AM

Tail numbers were painted over in many cases, and the Red Tails did the same thing,
completely obliterating the tail markings (if the delivered plane already had some).

Its my understanding that applying the stenciled info to the left side fuselage
was the responsibility of the crews after the aircraft reached its service destination.
I can imagine many groups like the 332nd not having the time or interest in some of
those task, and more interested in getting the planes "dressed" and into action.

That side stencil info could easily wear away in service as well.

So, if the stencil info didn't get applied, and the Tail got painted over
then theres no other info on the aircraft (other than noseart or a name) to recognize the plane.

If the aircraft was lost in action during the War, there is a better chance that the records
included a serial number and we can often find out that way.
I know that my source for serial numbers often refers to the MACR reports to find
serial numbers and special project numbers.

But aircraft that were retired or moved on after the war didn't always retain that specific info.
You will often read that an aircraft was "thought to be #xxxxx or #xxxxx of a certain squadron"
but nobody bothered to record the actual info anywhere!

I'm sure record keeping in the field (at that time) had its share of problems too.

airdave

06-09-2012, 10:11 PM

Just a quick reminder to all who try a Mustang kit (or any of my models)
I can always use some photos for the store listings
and for own personal files.

I was hoping to have some pics of a finished Zambales Shark
before it was listed...but it didn't happen, so I am still hoping to
see that one built along with some of the Tuskegee planes.

And remember...anyone who wants to do a full build of any model from ecardmodels
...can send ecardmodels two or three good quality photos of the finished model
and write a short review of the kit,
and you'll get a great credit deal from them!
...basically you get your money back for the model and extra to boot!!
Its like getting a model for free.

No, orange...you can't have the deal! lol
You begged for the Shark three weeks ago
and promised to do the "quick test" build and didn't deliver.
I am very disappointed.
No more soup for you.

The Orange

06-09-2012, 10:13 PM

D:

It's going to be O.K. Dave! I assure you that I will have one complete by the end of summer :D

airdave

06-09-2012, 10:14 PM

Here's another suggestion for a model of a very ill-fated Mustang and UFO incident. ...Captain Thomas F. Mantell a WWII vet and Kentucky ANG pilot was leading a flight of four Mustangs ...crashing in a farmers field.

This event fueled a growing national hysteria over UFO's and flying saucers.

If you have some interest in pursuing it, I'll look for more photos.

Curt

so, which is the plane in that photo?
yes, send me more stuff if you have it.
I will definitely add this plane to the list.

Wyvern

06-10-2012, 09:57 AM

Dave's newest Mustangs are now on sale at Ecardmodels.com!

Wyvern

airdave

06-10-2012, 10:20 AM

woohoo! two more planes!! check out the Kit Announcements for more info.

ashevilleangler

06-10-2012, 11:56 AM

Dave Mantell's plane is the one in the foreground. I'll see if I can find any more info.

Curt

ashevilleangler

06-10-2012, 09:01 PM

Ooops! First it's Thomas Mantell not Dave and his aircraft serial number was 44-63869.

This comes from the following entry on Joe Baugher's website.

"44-63869 (165th FS, Kentucky ANG) crashed near Franklin, KY Jan 7, 1948 during attempted intercept of UFO. Pilot Capt Thomas Mantell killed. This incident is legendary in the folklore of UFOs and flying saucers. The usual explanation was that Capt Mantell was trying to reach a Skyhood balloon (which was highly secret at the time) and lost consciousness due to a failure of his oxygen system and crashed."

Very interesting stuff especially since I have read that Mantell's Mustang was not oxygen equipped.

Curt

airdave

06-10-2012, 09:37 PM

lol I have read three websites so far, about this incident,
all with entirely different accounts of what happened!
Same basic premise, but a considerable number of fact discrepancies.
I'm afraid to read any more, in case the story gets even more confused.

This is why I am not very tolerant of UFO and paranormal reports.
They never seem to be very consistent or have well corroborated facts.
And the far fetched assumptions are too wild to be acceptable in my view.

You can't even get a non-biased opinion of the events in these cases.
Those who totally want to debunk tend to relate everything in a completely terrestrial nature,
while the UFO believers tell the story in a wildly speculative manner, usually claiming anything
that is not readily explained is automatically "not of this world".

Anyway, its a Mustang...they're all pretty...and its a sad case of a lost Mustang and a lost Pilot.
I'll focus on the aircraft...

now, can I find some more pics of the plane?

65Cycl0ne

06-11-2012, 10:28 AM

Nice thank you dave !!!!!

airdave

06-11-2012, 12:44 PM

Nice thank you dave !!!!!

cyclone, you posted a photo of a Mustang, but no info about it.
can you share more?

John Bowden

06-11-2012, 05:05 PM

Hey Dave!

Do you plan on doing any F-51s schemes from the Korean War.......... or have I overlooked them already?

john

airdave

06-11-2012, 05:49 PM

Well, from what I understand an F-51 is just a P-51, after 1948.
The P (Pursuit) designation was changed to F (Fighter) on most USAF aircraft.

So, as long as its not the bubble back H or K variant.
The canopy is different shape, I believe they might have been two seaters?

As far as a Korean plane...
I would need a suggested model...with some pics and info if possible, just to get me started.

Are you thinking of a Cavalier built Mustang?
From what I understand about those, they are all built from refurbished F-51Ds(P-51Ds)
but have a different tail and wing, as well as a second seat.
All originally intended for South American shipment, but many did end up going to the USAF.

I read another conflicting article about that UFO guy, and it stated he was flying an F-51.
Being 1948, that actually makes sense, because thats what they all would have been called at that time.

I'm learning just like the rest of you...thats the best part about these models!

John Bowden

06-11-2012, 06:59 PM

Yeah they change from Pursuit to Fighter in the designations..........

The Ausies flew F-51Ds in the war and so did the South Africans. The USAF flew it as well as the RF-51D.

So I believe yours will fit the bill, even for the RF with a few minor changes.

Maybe I can get Don Boose to chime in with some profile information.

john

John Bowden

06-11-2012, 07:08 PM

F-51 kills during the Korean War

Lt. Orrin Fox 80th FBS 2 both Yak-9s
Lt. J.B. Harrison 18th FBG 1 Yak-9
Maj. Arnold Mullins 67 FBG 1 Yak-9
Lt. Harry Sandlin 80th FBS 1 Yak-9

So the Mustang is a proven Yak killer!:)

ashevilleangler

06-11-2012, 07:21 PM

Dave, you are quite right about the KY ANG UFO incident being more confusing as you read more about it. What I do know with some certainty is that Mantell's P-51 looked like the photo I sent you earlier and which I will repeat here. It's tail number would read 463869 with 869 on both sides of the fuselage and with 869 on the upper starboard wing.

Here's the previous photo:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8026/7332908884_0d2c46961e.jpg

And here's a crash site photo showing a partial number on the fuselage below the cockpit:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7212/7363747032_8c6ffc6733.jpg

Hope this helps,

Curt

John Bowden

06-11-2012, 07:42 PM

Found this on the net Dave.

AIMS Decals Item No. 32D005 - Korean War Mustangs Review by Brad Fallen (http://www.hyperscale.com/2012/reviews/decals/aims32d005reviewbf_1.htm)

use it with a "grain of salt"

But at least it's a start.

john

ashevilleangler

06-11-2012, 09:02 PM

And the badge that appears below and just ahead of the cockpit is probably this:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7088/7364039870_6af6be07c1_z.jpg

The Latin translates as "Fortune Favors the Brave" which seems quite ironic given the outcome of this UFO incident.

Curt

airdave

06-11-2012, 09:54 PM

Doesn't quite look like the same patch...but its another place to start.
Good.

John...Korean F-51 is added to the to-do list.
Hopefully I can get one or two chosen (if nobody has a specific choice).

Australian planes are also on the list.
As is, Canadian and more.

richkat

06-12-2012, 03:48 PM

Found a cool looking Mustang at 193rd Special Operations Wing, Pennsylvania Air National Guard - Media Search (http://www.193sow.ang.af.mil/photos/media_search.asp?q=p-51&btnG.x=25&btnG.y=7) only 2 pics wish i could find more, I like this one.....Rich
131870 131871

airdave

06-12-2012, 04:25 PM

yeah, you find me more info on that one and I will do it.

A serial number would be nice, if nothing else.

I think you will find it has been painted white and striped, by those two fellows in the photograph,
to turn it into a static display aircraft. The flying aircraft were probably just metal with ANG markings.

richkat

06-12-2012, 04:46 PM

I think you will find it has been painted white and striped, by those two fellows in the photograph,
to turn it into a static display aircraft. The flying aircraft were probably just metal with ANG markings.

Even so it's a good looking plane....Rich

GreMir

06-13-2012, 07:22 AM

Dave,
Since you already mentioned Pacific Mustang's, may I interet you in one more?
William Shomo's "The Flying Undertaker/ Snooks-6th" - P-51D given to him after his Medal of Honor mission. I couldn't find photo of the right side showing Snooks-6th stencil, but I found the Snooks-5th to show the location of the stencil on the nose.

airdave

06-13-2012, 07:24 AM

Shomo has been on the list for quite some time!

...and thanks for the reference material!!
Saves me looking!

GreMir

06-13-2012, 07:33 AM

Excellent!

charleswlkr54

06-13-2012, 07:26 PM

airdave

06-13-2012, 08:51 PM

I'm going to put in my 2 cents worth on the Mantell case, it's my understanding that Mantell did not have oxygen equipment as he andthe others in his flight were on a ferry flight. The object he is believed to have been chasing was a super-secret 9at the time!) navy Skyhook Balloon. Mantell went to high, passed out from anoxia, the F-51 eventuall went into a spin due to engine torque, and broke up in midair.

I can't believe I am going to discuss this any further (LOL), but that plane did not appear to break up in the air. I read, according to facts? witnesses? that he appeared to wrestle control of the aircraft into a flat spin and spiraling descent. The wreckage indicates an almost intact aircaft that belly flop landed onto the ground and his body was intact and pulled from the wreckage. There was minimal "impact" to the ground at the crash site. Doesn't seem like an unconscious pilot dropping out of the sky at fighter plane speed to me.
(Did you see the disintegrating impact at the Reno Air Races recently...and that P-51 was only about 100ft up!)

There is also another report that states that at least one of the three planes did have an oxygen system in use and that the other two pilots never commented on or questioned the idea of oxygen usage. You would think they would have been the first to say "hey, you have no oxygen" or "put on your oxygen mask".

And apparently he was not an "experienced" pilot.
He was a pilot with years of experience, but this was the first Mustang he had ever flown and his P51 experience was limited.

There is also an apparent problem with the claimed altitude of the aircraft. I won't go into the whole explanation that I read, but based on the flight pattern, speeds, Mustang performance, weather, etc etc and events at the time, it is expected that the type of climbing chase he reportedly initiated would have killed the motor long before reaching the altitudes that are being claimed, and that he actually only reached something like 15,000 feet (and that oxygen would not have been a factor anyway).

I don't know...I don't know how to fly a Mustang and I wasn't in the cockpit.
You see what you started Curt?!

I believe the story that it was a balloon or just another UFO eyewitness failure.
Not an alien spacecraft.
And I think its another case of a plane crashed, a pilot died, and we will never truly know what happened...so we might as well blame it on Space Aliens! LOL

airdave

06-13-2012, 09:00 PM

anyway, here she is!

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/New%20Model%20%20Releases/F51DKYANGMantellartwork.jpg

...should have the model up to ecardmodels in a few days.
I'll make an announcement when its available.

Thought you might like to see the original 44-63869, before
she was decommissioned and then later refurbished.
This photo was apparently taken at war's end.

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/New%20Model%20%20Releases/yf-u3.jpg

KCStephens

06-13-2012, 09:11 PM

I recently inherited my Grandfathers scrap book of pictures during his time spent in Korea. It just so happens that the first three pictures in the upper left are of a P51 that had a misfortunate landing. Not sure of the country of origin...Austrailla perhaps? Sorry I don't know much more than that. Hope someone can shed some light on these old photos.

Swampfox

06-13-2012, 09:18 PM

Can't see a lot in those picts but it looks like pictures of Alaska. Was he ever stationed there at any time?

SFX

ashevilleangler

06-13-2012, 09:20 PM

WoW!, WoW!, WoW! Given this result I'm very happy to stirred this particular pot. This one I definitely must have. What really amazes me besides the speed at which you do these is the artistry that goes into them. OK what is really astounding is that you found the original pre-ANG incarnation of this airplane.

Thanks for all you do and especially for this model.

Curt

KCStephens

06-13-2012, 09:23 PM

Can't see a lot in those picts but it looks like pictures of Alaska. Was he ever stationed there at any time?

SFX

The pictures were taken in Korea during the war. What I'm not sure of is what country the airplane is from (dosen't look like US markings)

airdave

06-13-2012, 09:59 PM

Kevin, the pics are too small for us to see anything.
Scan and post the P51 pics.

The emblem on the plane in the third pic, looks like the Qantas logo.
Somehow, that doesn't seem right?

John Bowden

06-13-2012, 10:44 PM

SAAF - South African Air Force.

They used F-51Ds during Korea. If you scan and enlarge like Dave suggested maybe we can get the buzz number from the third pic.

My buddy Clave did this scheme

KCStephens

06-13-2012, 11:07 PM

Here are some better scans...

KCStephens

06-13-2012, 11:24 PM

Here's a picture that's pretty darn close to the one above.

airdave

06-14-2012, 06:51 AM

oh yeah...its definitely Qantas!

YankeeBoy

06-14-2012, 07:40 AM

Ummm...Dave, that is a springbok, not a kangaroo. That is a South African F-51D - they had a detachment in Korea about 1951-1952.

I sent a scan to you via e-mail Dave.

airdave

06-14-2012, 08:00 AM

a Springbok? I have a pair of those.

South African? Korea? Kangaroo?
lol

hey, all this looks a lot like my No. 2 Squadron Flying Cheetah....

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/P51D%20Mustang/cheetahswork.jpg

YankeeBoy

06-14-2012, 08:05 AM

Yessir - I the scan I sent you was the Wing Commander's aircraft, hence the multi-colored spinner. The fin flash colors are blue/white/orange (matching the roundels.

gomidefilho

06-14-2012, 08:49 AM

Hi Dave

How about FAG (Fuerza Aerea Guatemalteca) P-51? Is a stunning camouflage scheme for COIN duties...

Texman

06-14-2012, 09:22 AM

That one is awesome Pericles!

mbauer

06-14-2012, 09:45 AM

Dave's going to be busy for awhile with all of these great suggestions!

Great line-up Dave! Keep 'em coming!

Mike

gomidefilho

06-14-2012, 01:23 PM

Thank's people!

I have another latin american sugestion: a FAS P-51D, El Salvador use the P-51 until late 70's used too in the infamous "Guerra del Futebol" - War Soccer against Honduras, is a crazy camouflage scheme with dark green and sand...

gomidefilho

06-14-2012, 01:24 PM

More about El Salvador P-51

Loui

06-14-2012, 06:06 PM

COIN(COunter INsurgency aircraft) :Counter-insurgency aircraft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter-insurgency_aircraft)

airdave

06-14-2012, 06:11 PM

Some of those camos look quite cool, but to be honest
I find the camos tricky...getting everything to line up across
parts is a real pain. Its gonna have to be a camo that really
sparks my interest.

charleswlkr54

06-14-2012, 08:00 PM

Karl

06-14-2012, 09:11 PM

Even better would be the Piper version that was briefly proposed as a replacement for the OV-10. Had the Merln replaced with a turboprop, but once the Air Force hung a 30mm Avenger gunpod on it, it was slowed down enough that it was considered too slow to survive combat.

I think you mean the Cavalier Mustang, AKA Enforcer, AKA PA 48 which was fitted with a RR Dart turboprop.

Cavalier Mustang - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavalier_Mustang)

Google piper PA 48

airdave

06-15-2012, 09:33 AM

temporary sidetrack from the current suggestions...

I am going to do a Yeager Mustang (as I was asked quite a while ago)
but I am having difficulty deciding on which one to do.
Glam Glen II or III?

No, I won't be doing both...at least not right now.

Glen II was the aircraft Yeager was given when he returned to duty
(after being shot down in Glen 1 - B model, and evading capture)

II is a hand me down aircraft and was eventually shot down with another
Pilot flying(?).

III was the final WW2 aircraft given to Yeager and I guess you could consider
this his aircraft?

Is there a preference from interested parties?

65Cycl0ne

06-15-2012, 09:42 AM

I'd say GLAM GLEN II Dave. GGIII is cool and probably more attached to Yeager but I think I might like to see your kit in a color other than natural metal.

F.W.I.W.

cMags

06-15-2012, 11:19 AM

I'll vote for Glen III, I like the natural metal, and it'd be cool to have Old Crow and Glen III on display together... ;)

http://www.cebudanderson.com/images/bowen04.jpg

YankeeBoy

06-15-2012, 11:32 AM

A gentle warning when doing products related to Yeager...they vigorously protect their rights to "Glamorous Glen" and the like. Decal companies have done some creative things to get around the licensing - just a word to the wise.

Texman

06-15-2012, 11:43 AM

I was coming up with that as well YB, several mentions have been made to that effect in the modelling magazines.

airdave

06-15-2012, 12:21 PM

considering the historical aspect, I find that type of attitude a little silly.
But...I see Yeager has his own online store, where he sells collectibles including scale models.
Thats most likely the reason for controlling the use of his name and related things.

Since Yeager's plane was a request (not actually my choice)
then I will just drop the whole idea.

If Yeager's people decide they want a paper plane, I can sell them my plans
at a specially inflated price?

moving on to the next one then!

cMags

06-15-2012, 12:47 PM

Darn, owell, one less additional Mustang I have to build then... Because I *would* have had to build GGIII to go along with my Old Crow... :rolleyes:

John Bowden

06-15-2012, 01:27 PM

One way to mess with them (Yeager) would be to do the GGIII parts as a free add-on so if you have another silver mustang (already purchased) you could just swap the parts............ sorry Dave this ain't no way to make money:rolleyes:

charleswlkr54

06-16-2012, 11:41 AM

In regards to the Cavelier Mustang, it's my understanding that Piper bought them, and had all the jigs, etc, for the Mustang. But i read that awhile ago and it may not be true today.

airdave

06-16-2012, 12:12 PM

too many models to do...one less (Yeager) is not a problem! haha

Yesterday:
Two new Mustangs added to the PaperModelShop!
the Mantell KY ANG
and Moonbeam McSwine

Should appear at ecardmodels some time soon.

Today...finishing up:
RCAF AC274 City of Winnipeg Squadron
Old Crow
Flying Undertaker

Need to get my List of Planes To-Do out of the way
before I add any more to it.
Got at least four more and then I can look at some other Country variants.

I'm also interested in more Iwo Mustangs, but I think I will need those that
are interested to suggest planes they want to see.

Still curious about this plane (see attachment)...okay, never mind, I found it

GreMir

06-16-2012, 01:37 PM

...today...finishing up:
...
flying undertaker
...

yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:)

airdave

06-16-2012, 07:11 PM

as I said, Flying Undertaker is one of the planes I am working on right now.
And I must say, it has turned out to be one of the trickiest so far because
of a bunch of odd striping and graphics that span multiple parts making for
a difficult job of lining everything up!

The plane has diagonal chevron style stripes across the cockpit area,
wide black wing stripes in an unusual location and two wide black stripes
on the rear fuselage which look vaguely like D-Day striping but not.

anyway, the question was raised about some golden yellow stripes
that appear to frame the rear fuselage stripes.

The only place I have seen these golden stripes is on some Flight Sim model skins.
They are not readily visible on the vintage photos I have of the original plane.
But then again, its a colour that might not show up too well in the photos.

And after examining the old photos quite extensively,
I have convinced myself that there might be some golden striping there.
Even though the colour might not be visible,
I think I can see edges of some border stripes in some areas.

To be honest, I don't want to argue with all the people who trust Flight Sim model skins
and so I am going to believe what I think I see in the old photos
and include the golden yellow edging to the black stripes.

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/P51D%20Mustang/undertakergoldenstripes.jpg

Now, I will admit, other than photo hunting, I haven't done much reading.
So maybe there is some data on the paint scheme that I haven't seen?
Maybe someone knows something reliable in this case?
...if so speak up, or leave it alone.

richkat

06-16-2012, 07:39 PM

Dave looks like the Undertaker is great practice (stripes and such) for you to do
Miss America....hint...hint......Rich

132241

GreMir

06-16-2012, 08:26 PM

Dave,
On the photos you can see something around the black fuselage stripes and there was an argument that this is actually a black paint overspray left when the tape creating the border for black striping was removed. On the other hand people were arguing that this is just too uniform to be an overspray and it has to be a gold border for the black ID stripes.
My personal opinion is that this P-51D was a photo-op bird and whoever was paintnig it certainly wasn't sloppy - after all this was MoH hero's plane to be shown to the world and sloppy painting technique just wouldn't do :)

I found two new photos, plus the first one (posted earlier as well) clearly shows very narrow and very straight line outside the black band - it has to be the gold stripe...

John Bowden

06-16-2012, 08:40 PM

In Squadron Signals' Aces of the Southwest Pacific, they have a profile showing the gold strips on both sides of the black fuselage bands. They also show black stripes on both side of the diaginal gold fuselage stripes. This profile was done by Bon Greer.

Now I can understand the over-spray claim, because they have a picture of Michael Dikoviysky's "JOSIE" that clearly shows over-spray around the tape used to define the stripes.

The picture of "THE UNDERTAKER" used in the book dosen't show the stripes very well. As a matter of fact the last pic Michael Krol posted is from this book.

john

YankeeBoy

06-16-2012, 08:53 PM

The "Flying Undertaker" debate will never be resolved unless the original painter steps forward (from the grave??) and tells us "yellow border" or "no yellow border." I think most flight simmers and modellers prefer the more colorful version with yellow outlines and that "colors" their interpretation of what they see in printed copies of old black/white photos. I did a repaint of the Zarkov P-51D with the yellow outlines based on artwork rather than photo evidence. I have since been convinced that the overspray explanation is most likely correct. It is a source of amused confusion to me that people prefer the specially painted photo op P-51D "Snooks 6th" to the F-6D "Snooks 5th" in which Shomo actually earned the Medal of Honor.

GreMir

06-16-2012, 10:36 PM

Problem with the overspray theory, at least for me, is the fact that if you overspray the tape and then remove it, shouldn't you have the black stripe, then bare metal where the tape was and then overspray?
If you magnify the first photo in my last post, you can clearly see different color stripe right next to the black band - there is no room for the tape....

YB - there is really nothing special (aside from the 7 planes Shomo downed) in the Snooks-5th. Snooks-6th on the other hand looks mighty cool ;)

richkat

06-17-2012, 03:07 PM

Something was said on your AT-6 thread about doing one for silver (RR) paper....is there a chance of this with the Mustang?.....Rich

airdave

06-17-2012, 04:02 PM

the short answer? NO

because I hadn't planned for this my layouts are not readily accommodating.

I have already run into problems with the Texan kit.
My layers have to be disassembled.
Then the parts of each layer have to be disassembled.

I thought it would be simple to delete the base aluminum colour layer
but its not.

And then theres the issue of what parts are to be printed on metallic
and what parts are not.
This means I have to rearrange all the parts and pages so the builder
isn't printing every page twice and wasting card and ink!

For me, its all about the paint and artwork...so putting out a blank line drawing
isn't really what I want to do.

I have offered to give it a try with the Texan model
and I will do that...
but theres slim chance of the same with a Mustang (right now).

But in honor of the upcoming Bond flick...never say never.

YankeeBoy

06-22-2012, 11:20 AM

Dave - You're falling behind! No new Mustangs at eCardmodels in over 48 hours...my PayPal account is almost healthy again...LOL

An F-6D version (or option) would be nice. I think the camera window portside aft is the major difference...food for thought.

airdave

06-22-2012, 11:26 AM

HAHA...actually I have two models in line, waiting for release at ecardmodels.

Got two more on deck.

Working on two AT-6 models as well.

I don't know what an F-6D is, so I will open up my Mustang books
and may as well surf the net!

YankeeBoy

06-22-2012, 11:54 AM

Sorry - the F-6D was a photo recon version of the P-51D. "Snooks 5th," the aircraft Shomo was flying on his Congressional Medal of Honor mission, was a F-6D.

richkat

06-25-2012, 08:29 PM

Dave where are the seat belts?......Rich

airdave

06-25-2012, 09:56 PM

Dave where are the seat belts?......Rich

well, I guess I forgot something
and someone finally noticed.

thats odd that I never noticed that.

obviously not a part that stops you from building the model
but definitely a part that should be there...I think.

I will have to create a seatbelt update...make it available on my site
...and add it to future models.

cMags

06-26-2012, 07:24 AM

I just thought it was an activity left to the builder... :rolleyes:

airdave

06-26-2012, 09:10 AM

I have created a set of Seat Harnesses and Back Cushion
for the P-51D model.

There is an "update page" available at papermodelshop.com. (http://papermodelshop.com)
(Just look to the Extras page)

You are also welcome to download it here (http://www.mediafire.com/file/b8bvu8bvgcdr00w/P51D_Seat_Belt_update_06-26-12.pdf)

I have already added the parts to my blank P-51D kit
so all future models (from today) will have the Seat Belts and Cushion.

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/P51D%20Mustang/seatbeltmockup.jpg

John Bowden

06-26-2012, 09:35 AM

DTWF!!!!!

Umm D*%N That Was Fast!

Talk about your customer service......... ;)

richkat

06-26-2012, 07:05 PM

Thats why Dave is the BEST!!.....Rich

cMags

06-26-2012, 10:20 PM

Hey Dave, it was asked tonight at a plastic modelers meeting (they were all very interested in the Old Crow I brought to show), if there was a detailed Jelly Belly paint job on one of your mustangs. I know you did one for FG (but don't know if its included in their multi-pack yet or not), but figured I'd ask if you were interested in doing a JB version of this more detailed kit?

airdave

06-27-2012, 06:34 AM

sorry, there will be no Jelly Belly Mustang.

But, on a lighter note, there are two new Mustangs in the store!
The Old Crow and RCAF City of Winnipeg!

jimkrauzlis

06-27-2012, 08:51 AM

Love The Old Crow!! Great design!

Cheers!
Jim

shawndymond

06-27-2012, 03:55 PM

They just get better and better Dave!

May I make a request/suggestion?

How about a Mustang in RAF Service? Perhaps with D-Day Invasion stripes? I'm sure I have some pretty good pictures somewhere which might help?

Whadya think?

airdave

06-27-2012, 04:04 PM

RAF and RCAF have both been on the list since the start.
Just haven't looked into anything RAF yet.

But, if you have a particular plane in mind, and some reference material,
then it makes my choices a lot simpler.
I would rather produce a paint scheme that I know one person will buy
rather than guess at something for no-one.

...
hey Jim...speaking of Cripes aMighty...heres a weird coincidence:
Just looking for some reference for more RCAF Mustangs,
and it turns out the current restored/flying Cripes a Mighty
is actually RCAF 9261 from Chatham Ontario...I think thats 416 squadron?

shawndymond

06-27-2012, 04:06 PM

Leave it with me!

Have a few thoughts but will start going through my books in the morning for reference material...

jimkrauzlis

06-27-2012, 08:25 PM

Hello, David:

I found this webpage referring to a "Cripes Almighty 3d":
*** CRAZY HORSE AVIATION PHOTOGRAPHY *** (http://www.crazyhorseap.be/Mustangs/Mustangs/CripesAMighty3rd/N921.htm)

The one you mentioned I think is "Cripes A Mighty 4th":

P-51 Mustang Survivors: " Cripes a Mighty " , N151BW - serial #: 44-74813 Sights, Sounds, History. (http://www.mustangsmustangs.com/p-51/p51survivors/pages/44-74813.shtml)

The one I'd love to see is the original mount of Preddy:
bluenose george preddy (http://www.starduststudios.com/bluegep.htm)

You are doing amazing work on these P51s, each one is a gem in its own right!

Cheers!
Jim

airdave

06-27-2012, 09:19 PM

RyanShort

06-27-2012, 10:47 PM

Dave,

You may already be aware of this site, but just in case...

There's a tremendous wealth of data that you could mine at:

MustangsMustangs.com | P-51 Mustangs, Ford Mustangs: 2 classics, etched in history. (http://www.mustangsmustangs.com)

I particularly like some of the old civilian schemes such as these:

PastPaint: 45-11620 N2872D * * * year unknown - image: sn_620 (http://www.mustangsmustangs.com/p-51/p51pastpaint/picpagesSN/sn_620.html)
PastPaint: 45-11371 N1051S * * * 1972 - image: sn_570 (http://www.mustangsmustangs.com/p-51/p51pastpaint/picpagesSN/sn_570.html)
PastPaint: 45-11546 N51JW * * * year unknown - image: sn_597 (http://www.mustangsmustangs.com/p-51/p51pastpaint/picpagesSN/sn_597.html)
PastPaint: A68-119 VH-IVI * * * 1971 - image: sn_645 (http://www.mustangsmustangs.com/p-51/p51pastpaint/picpagesSN/sn_645.html)
PastPaint: 44-74994 N5151 * * * year unknown - image: sn_515 (http://www.mustangsmustangs.com/p-51/p51pastpaint/picpagesSN/sn_515.html)

Ryan

jimkrauzlis

06-28-2012, 07:39 AM

I was just showing you that bird because of the RCAF connection
(since I am currently looking for RCAF birds)
I wasn't really paying any attention to what particular Preddy plane it might represent.

Its great that some of these restored planes are dressed up to honor the
original heroes (many of which are long lost), but I don't usually refer to them
for reference material.

And as far as Cripes goes, I have yet to look into any of the history.

So, theres a 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th Cripes?
Well then, I will start with the FIRST!

Thanks, Dave...I figured as much but was very pleasantly surprised to find there were so many birds named in honor of Preddy, although they do seem to have slightly different names ("Cripes Almighty", "Cripes A Mighty", etc.), but the thought is what counts, eh?:) The birds themselves have a very interesting history, as you noted with the RCAF bird, which shows a bit about the flexibility and durability of this design...the sound of that engine overhead is something you do not soon forget! Marvelous plane! I am so happy you have taken on so many wonderful versions of this fabulous bird and I do actually look forward to each and every one!:)

Thanks again!!

Cheers!
Jim

YankeeBoy

06-28-2012, 09:32 AM

Preddy's aircraft were as follows:

49th Pursuit Group in U.S. and Australia - P-39, model, serial unknown
49th Pursuit Gruop in Australia - P-40, model, serial unknown

He was injured in a mid-air collision and, after recuperating stateside, went to Europe.

352nd Fighter Group - Bodney, England: P-47, model, serial unknown, named "Cripes A'Mighty."
352nd Fighter Group - Bodney, England: P-51B-10, 42-106451, code HO-P, named "Cripes A'Mighty." There was no "Cripes A'Mighty 2nd." This bird was later assigned to LtCol Tafel and was recoded HO-R by simply adding a tail to the "P." Note that this early P-51D had no fin strake when Preddy was flying it. There is no photo evidence that it was retro-fitted with one prior to its loss.
352nd Fighter Group, Bodney, England: P-51D-5-NA, 44-13321, coded HO-P, named "Cripes A'Mighty 3rd." This aircraft went through a number of paint changes (some major) in its life. It first had full invasion stripes applied but in July, 1944 they were removed from the wing upper surfaces and the portion of the fuselage above the insignia. There were small changes (crew names, number of victory marks, style of 'P' on fin, etc.) during June-July, 1944.

Preddy was rotated back to the states and the aircraft was then flown by several other pilots. It wass renamed "The Margarets" coded HO-N (CAPT Stuart) and then "Sexshunate" (CAPT Nutter.) The aircraft was lost and the pilot (LT Padden) killed in action 16 April 1945.

When Preddy returned to Bodney in Octopber 1944 he was in command of 328th Fighter Squadron.

352nd Fighter Group, CO of 328th FS, Bodney, England: P-51D-15-NA, 44-14906, coded PE-P, named "Cripes A'Mighty." This is the blue nose/red rudder color scheme.

A note on the blue used by "The Blue-nosed Bastards of Bodney" - the blue was a non-standard mix using British paint stocks. It is generally agreed that the blue used in the P-51B/early P-51D period (up until about Aug/Sep 1944) was a lighter shade that that seen later (from about Sep/Oct 1944 on.) The early blue is very much like FS595a color 25102 while the later blue is similar to RAF Deep Sky Blue or FS595a color 35052.

All the above was extracted from Eagle Editions #EC100, "The P-51 Mustangs of Major George Preddy" and is strongly recommended as a source for anyone modelling his aircraft.

352nd Fighter Group, Bodney, England: P-51D-