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View Full Version : Siebel Si 204 by Alin Osarik, beta-builders invited


Leif Ohlsson
03-09-2009, 03:59 AM
Alin Osarik, who made the incredibly detailed Merlin and other engines, has started design & construction of the Siebel Si 204 twin engine WWII transport & communication aircraft. (See Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siebel_Si_204).) The type was originally designed as an 8-seat passenger aircraft, and was produced after the war as such in France as Nord NC.701 Martinet.

[As an aside, five of the French Nord aircraft were purchased by the Swedish government after the war. Two of them had to be scrapped rather soon, due to structural failures, but three of them continued to do service as a cartography photo aircraft until 1970. By then the cost of maintaining the aircraft was greater then leasing more modern ones, so now one remaining Nord, registration SE-KAL, is awaiting restoration in storage at Arlanda airport, Stockholm.]

Alin is modeling the Czech version Aero C-3A, and invites beta-builders. He will step by step upload part sets (fuselage, wings, engines, etc.). Interested should contact Alin at <a.osarik(at)seznam.cz>, or check in the Czech forum:
Papírové modelářství CZ :: Zobrazit téma - Aero C3A / Alin /1:33 / BETA (http://www.papirovemodelarstvi.cz/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5416&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0)

By the look of the pdf-file with design images that Alin sent me, this is going to be something extra. I attach five sample images. Anybody interested in the full 30-image sample file, write directly to Alin at the email given above, and supply your own email.

Leif

Leif Ohlsson
03-09-2009, 06:49 AM
There is a fine walk-around of the Si-204 / Aero C-3A at a Czech air museum (http://cs-letci.com/muzeum2.htm).

willygoat
03-09-2009, 07:03 AM
That looks like an awesome museum. A little bit of funding and restoration could go a long way there.

cjwalas
03-09-2009, 10:02 AM
Really interesting looking airplane and one I've never heard of. I look forward to seeing this kit develop!
Chris

Alin
03-11-2009, 11:46 AM
Hello, part1 siebel beta

Hull interior

Deposit Files (http://depositfiles.com/files/jfocab0u0)
RapidShare: Easy Filehosting (http://rapidshare.com/files/208029058/hullinterier.pdf)

Leif Ohlsson
03-11-2009, 04:33 PM
Just a small teaser...
- Leif

Golden Bear
03-11-2009, 06:44 PM
Man, I'd like a piece of this one. But people are expecting a kit - not just a model anymore - for Inflexible. Man, I love this. (that's drool coming through your screen).

Carl

pahorace
03-12-2009, 02:31 AM
Hello,
is a superb and quite unknown model.
(I have seen the work of Alin Osarik for his extraordinary LZ-129 "Hindenburg" airship)
Thank you for sharing this product from a good and original designer.

Orazio

Darwin
03-12-2009, 11:56 AM
Leif, I've got the first installment of the model printed out. Do you have any thoughts on how to approach building the interior without doing the ship-in-a-bottle thing? It looks as if the "minor" bulkheads (A2, A3, A5-A9, A13) are not added until after the interior details have been installed....and, to do that, those bulkheads will need to be cut into sections. My first impression is that those formers should be cut into a "bow" portion and a base segment. The base segments would be added when the floors are put in place, and the bows would wait until after all the interior parts are finished. Any way you look at it, this model is going to be a challenge. I'm wondering if one should use sheet styrene for backing the bulkheads and main stringers rather than cardboard, but maybe giving the cardboard a good soaking with thin CA will add enough stiffness.

Alin
03-12-2009, 01:17 PM
Hallo

it could be in this way?

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/3250/hullconst.th.jpg (http://img90.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hullconst.jpg)

Darwin
03-12-2009, 02:15 PM
That looks as if it will work. I guess I'm too locked into my stick-and-tissue construction mentality. I envisioned gluing everything to the dorsal keel piece as the construction progressed. I think it will be ok to use the dorsal keel as a "jig" during the construction to keep the bulkheads lined up properly, but wait until the very last to actually glue it in place. That way, a completed module can be removed from the keel before starting the next one in the sequence. Once the modules are completed, glue them together at the floor and upper keel pieces, then slip the dorsal keel into place and glue it down. I think it would be easier to glue the details to the floor of the center module before installing the floor into the framework, though. As many times as the dorsal keel will be inserted into and removed from the structure, I think I will sacrifice some of my 1/32 inch basswood sheet for backing the keel pieces, and possibly the bulkheads as well. Thanks for the hint, Alin. I can't wait for you to get the cockpit section posted....and can just imagine what the wheel wells will look like. If you tell me you have detailed the engine compartment as well, I'll know I have died and gone to cardmodeller heaven.

Darwin
03-18-2009, 12:41 PM
I thought I'd post a few pics of my progress so far on building this puppy. First, a disclaimer about the photo quality....my sugar level is a bit low, and brunch hasn't kicked in yet...between blurry eyesight and unsteady hands, I'm fairly happy I was able to get pics taken at all. Inside my brain, there is a 20-year-old self screaming "what the (#&$^ did you do to me?"

In my first attempt, I tried using basswood for backing all parts...however, that didn't do too well. The structure is so fragile, the wood simply splintered on any attempt to cut across the grain. I limited basswood to the ventral and dorsal keel pieces. The remainder, I backed with two laminations of thin (approximately 0.5 mm) cardboard, with the laminations cross-grained. On the bulkheads, I made mirror-image cardstock parts for putting on the back side of the parts. The parts came out a tad bit thicker than the designer intended....so, if fit issues arise during the assembly, mia culpa. However, I am reasonably satisfied with the part's strength, especially after soaking the thin portions with crazy glue. On a couple of the bulkheads, I tried facing the raw edges with bond paper strips cut from the color swatch the designer provided on the parts pages. After trimming down those strips, my thought was I'd still have to do considerable touch up painting, so gave it up as a lost cause....might as well just paint the raw edges without the hassle of trying to hide them with colored paper.

So far, so good. The dry fits haven't shown any fit issues. So far, just this portion of the frame has taken as much to accomplish as a complete build of a typical Fiddler's Green model. This model is every bit as complex as a Halinski kit, so expect your building skills to be seriously challenged if you try it. That said, there is a great deal of self-satisfaction to be obtained when it all comes together.

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Leif Ohlsson
03-18-2009, 12:47 PM
Very good to see this coming together in reality, too! - L.

cjwalas
03-18-2009, 01:05 PM
Very interesting build already. I find your technique of the spine support really intriguing! Can't wait to see more of this one.
Chris

Lex
03-18-2009, 07:08 PM
Alin have done it again! I am in awe of your designing powers, and also good luck with the testbuild Darwin

Don Boose
03-19-2009, 06:42 AM
This is beautiful work!

Don

Darwin
03-21-2009, 02:23 PM
A quick posting of progress while I have an internet connection (the joys of having to go wireless in the rural areas of the country). The framework is coming along, and the fiddly bits are started. I'm cheating on the oxygen bottles....dowels come in handy for lots of things. The cylinders are simply glued to the dowel, and then trimmed to size. The upper keel is giving me some very evil ideas involving grain of wheat lightbulbs. Our weekly foray into the big town is today (she-who-must-be-obeyed is getting ready as I type), so I can stop by the LHS and see what they have which might be pressed into service on this build.
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eatcrow2
03-21-2009, 05:12 PM
Looking pretty cool..... I like that pack of dowels.. Where did you acquire them at?

Darwin
03-21-2009, 07:46 PM
I bought this pack from Fred Meyers, but most craft stores carry them as well. I usually find them in the kiddies crafts section, with the popsicle sticks, etc.

Darwin
03-22-2009, 04:45 PM
I finally got done with the first fiddly bit....the table and oxygen bottles. All told, about 130 pieces make up this little gem. So far, parts fit has been excellent. Yesterday I raided the LHS and picked up some grain of wheat bulbs. They do fit in the cable trench formed by the dorsal spar assembly. By the time it gets done, things are going to be very crowded in there. I'm thinking of lining the bottom and top of the trench with tin foil to make it a bit more opaque to the light. The LHS did have some bulbs that were smaller, but only had one pack of them (3 bulbs per pack). I still am far enough from being ready to install them that I could probably order some of them. That would help solve the fit issues a bit...as is, the bulbs come in contact with the wood keel pieces. I don't think there will be much temperature issue, even if I go with what I have, since I don't think I will be using the full 12 volts these little puppys are rated for.

Present thought is to install the model on an airport tarmac diorama base, and include a few pieces of support equipment (like a generator cart, and maybe a tug tractor). I think I'll install the power supply in the diorama base, and feed the juice into the plane through the generator cart umbilical. That way, it won't be too hard to install a dimmer so light intensity can be juggled around a bit. If I get really, really ambitious, I could go for working navigation and landing lights as well.

Does anyone know if a kit exists for a generator cart?

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shrike
03-22-2009, 05:16 PM
Yes there is one available, black and white, but printed on coloured card it makes into a nice little model.
http://www.kartonmodell-forum.org/downloads-2006-10-10/members/gelberueben.htm

Darwin
03-22-2009, 05:40 PM
Thanks, Shrike. I'd forgotten all about this one.

Darwin
03-23-2009, 06:21 PM
A bit more progress. My eyes are just about permanently crossed from cutting out the radio knobs. Alin, what this model now needs is a little bitty radio headphone set to lay on part s8. When do you anticipate posting the next batch of parts pages (the cockpit section, I hope)? Now to start bending some wire for the seats.
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Leif Ohlsson
03-24-2009, 02:36 AM
So many details, and so small. What a good job. - L.

wlofy
03-24-2009, 02:58 AM
Hello
I have new information about this beta build.
Author start making this model for polish publisher.
There are alowed only 5 beta builders, 3 are from czech paper forum.
If you want to continue in this build, contact author.

rickstef
03-24-2009, 08:13 AM
Hello
I have new information about this beta build.
Author start making this model for polish publisher.
There are alowed only 5 beta builders, 3 are from czech paper forum.
If you want to continue in this build, contact author.

That is interesting, because the author/designer of the kit, has replied in this thread, and has helped Darwin with some questions.

I just find it wierd that your first post is in this manner.

Darwin
03-24-2009, 08:37 AM
This, to say the least, is damned upsetting. I previously contacted the author and received a reply from him to feel free to participate. I resent an email to request one of the two remaining beta builder slots so that the several days of build time will not be for nothing. It leaves me wondering if anyone's word is worth anything?

Alin
03-24-2009, 09:42 AM
Hello
beta test will proceed further. Will only be restricted on 5 builders on forum. Czech forum-5 builders,papermodelers -5 builders ......
Files send and e - mail. Next part will next week.
Alin

Darwin
03-24-2009, 10:05 AM
Alin, thank you for the clarification. As in all activities, the necessity for adequate communication (especially at the onset of the activity) cannot be overstated.

Darwin
03-25-2009, 06:28 PM
Is anyone out there? I had hopes that this string would be a really unique opportunity to provide interchange between designer, beta builderS, and general membership in a single thread.....a chance maybe to see, in one place, different approaches and techniques by multiple builders on a single subject. Apparently not to be, and increasingly becoming a monolog. Is this string becoming a waste of bandwidth?

Continuing on....so far, this build has been pretty much shake-and-bake. Parts fit has been phenomenally good....in only a few places have I had to do any trimming, and I suspect those would not have been needed had I been able to get the backed pieces exactly the same thickness as the designer intended. I thought I finally had a "gotcha" moment when I mated up the cabin and tail framework....former a21 was a bit larger than bulkhead a12. Then the "duh" factor kicked in when it came to me I haven't put the interior skin on the cabin yet. By the time that is done, there shouldn't be much (if any) sanding needed at this point.

Since I intend trying to add interior lights, I have gone as far with the build as I think is prudent until I get the next batch of pages from Alin (which should be next week). Hopefully, that will be the cockpit, so I can figure out what additional electrical work is needed.

I have only one minor comment to pass on to Alin. I think that the dorsal keel should not have been broken into two pieces at bulkhead a10. By not gluing in the ventral keel until all the cabin ahead of former a9 was assembled, nothing is gained in the way of easing assembly by breaking the dorsal keel at a10...in practice, it actually made the assembly more difficult from trying to keep freefloating butt joints lined up long enough for the glue to set. As a less important comment, I think the structure would be a bit stronger if the keel pieces were slotted into a1 and a12, rather than just butt-jointed.
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Darwin
03-25-2009, 06:30 PM
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That's all for this segment.

redhorse
03-25-2009, 06:34 PM
This is an amazing plane, just fun to watch the build.

shrike
03-25-2009, 08:15 PM
Is anyone out there? I had hopes that this string would be a really unique opportunity to provide interchange between designer, beta builderS, and general membership in a single thread.....a chance maybe to see, in one place, different approaches and techniques by multiple builders on a single subject. Apparently not to be, and increasingly becoming a monolog. Is this string becoming a waste of bandwidth?
]

Oh no, not at all. We're all out here - the page views should show that.

This is one of my favourite little airplanes, and was on my medium length " I wanna design one" list.
I'm just following along, and curious about the paint scheme (Blindfliegerschule is my guess from the radio suite and oxygen bottle array), how the Ratier props will be done, the exhaust and really really looking forward to the nose glazing. I just haven't had anything constructive to say.

Don Boose
03-25-2009, 08:19 PM
I am watching with great interest both the build and such discussion as has taken place so far. I haven't had anything to contribute because this level of model building is out of my reach. But, like everything you build, it is a beautiful model to see take shape and it is a great pleasure to watch your virtuoso performance.

I am sure that the master builders will weigh in as construction proceeds.

Please keep building and posting!

Don

dansls1
03-25-2009, 08:42 PM
Also following with interest, but have as of yet had no comments, other than to compliment designer and builder on a good job so far.

member_3
03-25-2009, 08:55 PM
No worries, D, the usual crowd of lurkers is here. I am impressed with both Alin's complex design and level of detail that you are producing. It appears to be a well-designed model and you are making the construction look deceptively easy. Please keep on building and posting!

papermodelfan
03-25-2009, 09:00 PM
More of us are lurking than posting. This is an amazing design of a curious and attractive aircraft subject. I am so impressed at how the internal structure is mimicking the actual frames of the aircraft - and it looks like that will continue into the wings too. Almost a shame to cover all this up with skin. Would one consider a cellophane wrapped version?

dansls1
03-26-2009, 04:03 AM
More of us are lurking than posting. This is an amazing design of a curious and attractive aircraft subject. I am so impressed at how the internal structure is mimicking the actual frames of the aircraft - and it looks like that will continue into the wings too. Almost a shame to cover all this up with skin. Would one consider a cellophane wrapped version?

It definitely leads one to consider a half skinned / half unskinned version. It'd be great for one of those museum displays where passerby's would exclaim often 'that's made of paper'?

Alin
03-30-2009, 11:01 AM
Hello

Cockipt will ready behind 3 days.
picture from cockpit project:

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/2163/053c.th.jpg (http://img140.imageshack.us/my.php?image=053c.jpg) http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/8454/051ngd.th.jpg (http://img24.imageshack.us/my.php?image=051ngd.jpg) http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/5279/052qmf.th.jpg (http://img24.imageshack.us/my.php?image=052qmf.jpg)

Darwin
03-30-2009, 12:04 PM
Oooooooooohhhhh.....lots and lots of fiddly little bits. I'm glad my wife "convinced" me to get the Ott light magnifier attachments that JoAnn's had on sale last weekend. Alin, where do you think would be the best place to place a grain-of-wheat bulb to light the cockpit interior? I'm thinking another trip to the LHS is in order....looking at those frames, I think 1/32 inch plywood would be the best backing for them. Have your researches given you any insight as to where external electrical power would connect to the airplane?

billy.leliveld
03-30-2009, 12:44 PM
I've been lurking this thread for a while, I never have seen a model build up like that, following the original structure, with so much detail, and the choise of an obscure aircraft like that, This is what paper-modeling is about, you never had that kind of comunication between designer, beta-builder and future customers before..:D

shrike
03-30-2009, 06:27 PM
Battery connection on the Si-204D-1 appears to be a plug on the starboard side below the aftmost window, just above the wing.

Get Manfred Griehl's book from Schiffer (http://www.schifferbooks.com/newschiffer/book_template.php?isbn=0764305662) if you like this airplane. Also opportunities for repaints in Luftwaffe, Czech, French, Polish, USAAF,RAF, RCN(!), Soviet and Swiss Military schemes, and French, Czech, Dutch civil paint.

Oh yeah, and the carrier for the Lippich DM-1 as well.

willygoat
03-30-2009, 07:39 PM
Ah Manfred Griehl. I have his book titled " Luftwaffe Over America: Secret plans to bomb the United States"

It's a good read. He is REALLY good at his research. I now know more about the WWII German engines than any one person should.

shrike
05-13-2010, 10:21 PM
Any news? I rediscovered the thread searching for something else, and realized how long it's been.

SJPONeill
05-13-2010, 10:44 PM
It looks like a great design - hope it came to fruition...

andrzejmat
01-25-2012, 12:47 PM
Witam,proszę o odpowiedż.Czy ALIN zakończył budowę siebla?.Czy ktoś ma szkielet konstrukcji i całą reszte?.Pozdrawiam: