Here comes the Irish Mail - RMS Connaught, 1860

[Oliver Weiss]

Since Carl was so hot for this one I decided to make it my next project.

RMS Connaught, launched 1860, scrapped 1897. Served on the Kingstown-Holyhead route. First ship to reach 18 knots, a record held for over 20 years.
Length: 348'
Beam: 35'

Wish me luck :)


Cheers,

Oliver

[member_3]

Luck, luck, luck! I suspect that your considerable skills will overcome any difficulties, though. Looking forward to this one!

[B-Manic]

She looks like a very interesting subject. I look forward to watching your progress.
And of course 'good luck'.

[Golden Bear]

Aha! Very sweet. I'm afraid of modeling side wheelers. Finally maybe I can learn how to do it. Good choice.


Carl

[Art Deco]

Great subject choice!

[mabrown]

Very cool ship to add to your fleet of very fine models.

I did a quick google to find a photo of the ship. I turned up a photo of a very nice model of Connaught confirming your design with 4 funnels and a page from the Illustrated London News of 1860 showing a similar vessel of the same name with two funnels which apparently sank the same year as she was built, 1860.

Science and Society Picture Library - Search (http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/results.asp?image=10266153)
Hunting New England Shipwrecks (http://www.wreckhunter.net/DataPages/connaught-dat.htm)

Do you know if your ship replaced the other vessel?

[ct ertz]

I think that that ship would have made aheck of a blockade runner!

[Rick Thomson]

A very pretty hull, another case of what looks right, is right.

[Oliver Weiss]

Thanks, guys - your interest confirms that this one might be a winner :)

There were indeed two Connaughts built in 1860. The two-funnel ship was built on the Thames for the Galway line and served on the North American run, where it came to a fiery end in October of the same year, luckily without loss of life. Our Connaught, however, was built at Laird's of Birkenhead for the City of Dublin Steam Packet Co. She was one of four very similar ships, Ulster, Leinster, Munster, and Connaught which were collectively known as "The Four Provinces". These ships were built as a result of the 1853 renewal of the Royal Mail Contract, which stipulated that the crossing for the Irish channel must henceforth be accomplished in three and three-quarter hours. This required a vessel capable of 17 3/4 knots in all weathers, something that many experts at the time thought impossible. As you can see from the hull's lines the ships were designed as real racers, with engines to match, and sophisticated 14-float, feathering paddle wheels. The first, two-funnel design appears to have been underpowered. The revised design featured haystack boilers and required the then-unusual four funnels. (I'll give more details on the machinery further on) Connaught managed 18 1/4 knot on her official trials. Between 1883 and 1885 the ships underwent modernization to increase their speed and reduce their enormous coal consumption (64 tons one-way!) They received new engines and boilers, and their paddle wheels were set lower. They now needed only two funnels. In this new form the ships continued to carry the mail twice a day until 1897, when they were replaced by four identically-named twin-screw steamers.

As to blockade-running - many contemporary steamers in the cross-channel trade were very similar to the Four Provinces - built for speed, with sleek iron or even steel hulls, feathering paddle wheels, turtleback decks etc. Of course this made them ideal blockade-runners, and a lot of privately owned vessels were purchased by war profiteers and Confederate agents for just that purpose.

This model should be fun and fast to build - the enormous turtle back covers up most of the fiddly bits below, and the rest of the ship is pretty streamlined. The tricky part will be the paddle wheels. I shall attempt to make working feathering paddle wheels at 1/250th scale. From paper, of course. Hence the call for good luck :)

Cheers: Oliver

[Golden Bear]

It is funny - I was looking at my books on paddle wheelers and thought to myself, "Oliver is awfully good at design - he should make feathering wheels!" But then I thought that would be impolite to bring up publicly. And you are going to try to do it anyway! I know I couldn't resist either so I am even more looking forward to it.


Carl

[Don Boose]

Excellent, Oliver!

Another unusual and beautiful maritime prototype.

Don

[mabrown]

Many thanks for giving us the history of your ship Oliver. I also enjoyed reading the history of the Livadia on your web. It brings the models to life knowing something about them.

[Oliver Weiss]

It brings the models to life knowing something about them.

True, true - though sometimes I find I know more about a particular ship than is socially acceptable (or so says my better half :)

Cheers : Oliver

[Barry]

Nice choice look forward to it

[Yu Gyokubun]

Since the day I set eyes on your superb ship’s pictures at the gallery I was impatient for your report. I look forward to it.

[THE DC]

Thanks for doing this one, Oliver. I've been contemplating a 2 funnel, Clyde class blockade runner, the “Phantom”, so seeing your build will be helpful in starting mine!

You are correct about these being prime blockade runners for the Confederacy: shallow draft, fast, and some had collapsible funnels to further limit the profile while on the sea!


Regards,


The D C


:cool:

[Michael Mash]

That is a real sleek looking boat for 1860. Looking forward to watching you craft this beauty.
Mike

[Oliver Weiss]

We've sprouted masts and proper funnels and steam pipes...This is going pretty fast. I'll be doing details soon!

[Michael Mash]

What kind of software do you use to design these?
Mike

[Golden Bear]

Oh yeah. I love the four funnels. Very, very sleek look.

[Oliver Weiss]

Funnels are great, aren't they, Carl? I bet you've already been looking for a ship with five or six funnels already, haven't you? To my knowledge there's only the Russian Askold with five and Jeanne d'Arc with six (I think there's also an Italian ship with six, but as far as I can remember it looks just like Jeanne d'Arc). Too bad the Askold kit has already been done a couple of times already, and the Jeanne d'Arc... Forgive me, but that's just one butt-ugly ship!

@Michael - it's Rhino3d, IMHO the perfect choice for card model design :)


Cheers : Oliver

[redhorse]

Is this the ship you're talking about? It is strange, but I kinda like it I think.

http://www.cityofart.net/bship/fr_jeanne_dArc_profile.jpg

[CharlieC]

That's bizarre - looks like an industrial plant dropped onto a ship's hull. The wikipedia entry says it had 48 (!) boilers to make 23 knots. Apparently it was used for a long period as a school ship - one wonders what was learned - "how to shovel immense amounts of coal" - "how hard it is to clean soot and ash from a 6 funnel ship".

Regards,

Charlie

[Oliver Weiss]

Yeah - I think the idea was for it to be as fast as an ocean liner of the time... From the "Proceedings of the United States Naval Institute" for 1903 we learn that the Jeanne D'Arc made only 21.3 knots on her official trials, with the engines developing 30,000 ihp, and coal consumption at 1 kilogram per ihp per hour...let's see - that's 30 metric tons of coal per hour! (33 short tons).

Does anybody remember what life was like before Google Books???


Cheers : Oliver

[Golden Bear]

The Jeanne D'Arc was also on the ways for a long time.

That's not the only French period ship with 6 funnels! Ernest Renan and the sister ships Edgar Quinet and Waldeck-Rousseau were armored cruisers with 6.

There were also numerous wonderful French ships with 4 funnels:

Jurien de la Gravière
Chateaurenault
Guichen
Ernest Renan
Jules Michelet
Léon Gambetta class (3)
Gloire class (5)
Dupleix class (3)
Gueydon clasd (3)

I expect to model at least one of these before too very long. None are as sleek as your little beauty though.

[Oliver Weiss]

Back to the Connaught... I proclaimed earlier that I was to attempt working feathering paddle wheels made from paper at 1/250 scale. I now realize that I may have bitten off more than I can chew. I just made this wheel for the Anglia. It has twelve fixed floats and is 1" in diameter. It took over two hours to do just this one, and it was a royal pain in the a**. It's also kind of crooked and wobbly, not something that will rotate with any degree of precision :mad:

Gil - where are you? Help!

[Golden Bear]

And it looks wonderful! Really.


Carl

[eatcrow2]

It looks pretty good to me also....

[Barry]

You did that in 2 hours !!!!!! looks great

[Oliver Weiss]

Thanks, guys - It actually looks a lot straighter in the picture, which makes me look like a whiner. It must be the angle, because it's really rather crooked when you look at it side-on.

The problem is that paper has no longitudinal stiffness, like wood does. It just bends every which way. Ideally I would like to use a material that only bends one way. I could laminate it at 90 degrees and get something like plywood. This morning on the way to work I thought about suitable materials. There's paperwood, a micro-thin wood veneer, but that's viciously expensive. I also wondered if there is something made of carbon fiber, or glass fiber, perhaps? Do we have any materials experts here?


Cheers : Oliver

[Oliver Weiss]

update - I just ordered a sheet of 0.25mm carbon fiber laminate veneer (expensive!) It'll be here in a week. Stay tuned ....

Cheers,


Oliver

[Golden Bear]

I think that I've also seen some thin plywood in the hobby store... 1/32" - ~0.8mm. I don't recall it being too expensive for quite a large sheet. Depending on how the carbon fiber material is laid up the plywood might be stiffer. The wood fibers should have significantly more individual longitudinal stiffness. Yes, I got my engineering degree at a school specializing in composite materials and worked with them at DuPont for over a year!

Please take the time to give us your assessment of the material when you get it.


Carl

[Oliver Weiss]

Thanks, Carl - so you're the go-to guy, then!
I'm also considering the paper-thin veneer, but the vendor needs a $100 minimum order, which is too rich for my blood - unless all you lurkers out there buy some more of my kits :)

Cheers,


Oliver

[Rick Thomson]

Beechwood can be had in some pretty thin sheets, I have some laying about somewhere in the chaos that I call my work area that must be about 0.5 mm.

[redhorse]

I'd just saturate the paper with superglue. It adds amazing strength to parts like that.

[Oliver Weiss]

I'd just saturate the paper with superglue. It adds amazing strength to parts like that.

It does, but it's also very messy and smelly (for me), plus it's tough to keep the part you're hardening in shape while it dries. Can't really put it down anywhere :rolleyes:

What I really want are two kinds of paper: one that is thin, flexible and can be shaped and sanded. The other needs to be thin and tough, with great longitudinal stiffness, so I can make plypaper out of it.

Oh, and of course I want world peace. But the other two things first, please!

Cheers,

Oliver

[rmks2000]

What if you laminated bond paper perpendicular to each other? Or use manila folders?

[Oliver Weiss]

It's just not the right kind of strength. Take wood, for example - or bamboo, even better - it bends only in one direction. If you take two flat sheets of either material and glue them together at a 90 degree angle, you get plywood, or those marvelous new cutting boards. That's what I want to achieve in paper. But by definition, paper is made up of a tangle of fibers. Now, granted, paper does have a grain, i.e. the bulk of fibers run in the same direction. And you can make plypaper, but the gain in stiffness is just not enough.

[Golden Bear]

You are absolutely correct Oliver. Wood is actually a naturally occurring "composite" material with its own fibres and joining substance. Incredibly strong for longitudinal loading but flexible, even fragile to forces applied laterally. Both plywood and graphite/polymer composites compensate for this through patterns of layering. I'm interested in your experiences with cutting the composite sheet since they are notorious for dulling blades. Cutting is frequently accomplished with high pressure water or sand for this reason. I'm talking myself into buying a sheet of the plywood for experimental purposes.


Carl

[shrike]

When I was building my airplane I used to describe the wing structure as made from a 'Mono-directional composite material formed of cellulose fibres locked in a lignin matrix"

Kevlar might get the flex back vs carbon. I recall getting some Kevlar cloth that was mostly tow with just enough cross threading (can't remember my warp from my woof) to keep it together. It would duplicate much of the quality of wood in being markedly more flexible in one direction than the other.
(The sign shop I used to work at also did sailplane structural repairs on the side)

[Oliver Weiss]

Lord knows we all know that idle hands are the Devil's workshop. I had two more paddle wheel rims to burn, so I decided to see what crazy glue could do here. The crucial step in the process was to sandwich the glue-soaked rims between two pieces of silicone-coated parchment paper (you should have seen the look on the wife's face) and to press it flat on my little magnetic workbench. You will recall that a couple of posts up I bitched that CA glue is well and good, but you can't put the wet part anywhere without it sticking to stuff. Parchment paper is the answer. I actually read that here on the forum somewhere - I'm sorry I forget who came up with this marvellous trick.

I'm letting the parts cure overnight, so this is all we get to see for now...

[redhorse]

Another trick for CA is to soak the back of the part before you cut it out. Mop up the excess with a paper towel and then cut the part out. It seems to depend a bit on the weather, but I can normally start cutting the part out within 5 minutes and it seems to be easiest the sooner you cut it. It takes a bit more effort and knife blades to cut, but for me it gives a cleaner edge. The parts need to be scored before soaking and then scored again after soaking and before cutting to get a nice clean fold. The radar at the top of this picture is 2 cm wide and made using this technique with one piece of card.

That paddlewheel has already sold this kit to me, even though it's full hull and 1:250 :)

http://www.papermodelers.com/forum/attachments/ships-watercraft/11853d1237604374-ijn-isuzu-1-200-answer-03-20-09-013.jpg (http://www.papermodelers.com/forum/attachments/ships-watercraft/11853d1237604374-ijn-isuzu-1-200-answer-03-20-09-013.jpg)

[Oliver Weiss]

Hehe - thanks, Jim - that's a great-looking superstructure. What ship?

Incidentally, the lower hull is optional in my current kits :)

Cheers: Oliver

[redhorse]

Incidentally, the lower hull is optional in my current kits :)

Yes, but.... you have a knack for picking some of the most interesting and beautiful hull shapes for your models. I can't imagine myself building one of them waterline!

The picture is the Isuzu I just finished. The build thread is here if you're interested:

http://www.papermodelers.com/forum/ships-watercraft/2082-ijn-isuzu-1-200-answer.html

[Jim Nunn]

Oliver,

That paddle wheel is superb, such fine cutting.

You may find that cutting carbon fiber will be a real B***H.

This is a method I use to reinforce small parts and for hinges on AFV’s. Start with some of foil wrapped chocolate coins, eat the chocolate. Take the foil and on a very smooth surface, I use a piece of Plexiglas, rub the embossing out with the back of your finger nail. You can laminate the foil between 67 lb paper using medium thickness CA glue. The result is about 0.5 mm thick and you can cut it with a #11 blade when finished. You will find it to be very stiff in both the X and Y axis and will also hold a sharp crease.

Jim Nunn

[rmks2000]

Now that's some creative thinking! I never would have thought of that.

[Oliver Weiss]

Ooh! That's an excellent idea! I'll give that a shot!

Incidentally, The CA-glue / parchment experiment came out semi-satisfactory. The parts ended up very stiff and very flat. However, while the top cover of parchment paper came off just fine, the bottom layer was thoroughly stuck to the part. I guess I used too much glue, and it soaked the parchment in the end. So I had to cut the parts out again :/ I'll have to try some waxed paper next.


Cheers,


Oliver

[dansls1]

I use parchment paper for my laminations and know it doesn't stick to good old 3M type 77 glue, but I've never tried it with CA.

Just throwing out ideas, what about a piece of very thin plastic material sandwiched between 2 pieces of paper? Some clear packaging material or something. You could use regular paper instead of card if you need to in order to obtain the correct thickness. The big downside I see (other than not being all paper to those who care about such) is that you'd pretty much have to use paints to do edge coloring rather than some of the other options people use.

[Art Deco]

This is a method I use to reinforce small parts and for hinges on AFV’s. Start with some of foil wrapped chocolate coins, eat the chocolate. Take the foil and on a very smooth surface, I use a piece of Plexiglas, rub the embossing out with the back of your finger nail. You can laminate the foil between 67 lb paper using medium thickness CA glue. The result is about 0.5 mm thick and you can cut it with a #11 blade when finished. You will find it to be very stiff in both the X and Y axis and will also hold a sharp crease.

That is really an intriguing idea, I haven't heard of it before!

[whulsey]

What about cross laminating Canson Vidalon tracing paper? Its fairly strong for its thickness and designed for inking so holds up well to moisture. Maybe Carl could give an opinion on it, since I'm sure he's worked with it over the years.

[Oliver Weiss]

I'm sorry to say that the carbon fiber sheet was a disappointment. While it is pretty rigid as a whole, thin strips and other small shapes cut from it are very brittle and crumble under my hands... I guess we'll shelve that idea. In any event, for the time being I got a satisfactory result with crazy glue. We'll go from there. :rolleyes:

This latter discussion actually referred to my "Anglia" project, which is currently in the alpha-build stage. To not confuse matters any further, I have started a separate thread for the Anglia here (http://www.papermodelers.com/forum/design-threads/2906-paddle-tug-anglia-1866-a.html). Henceforth this thread shall only deal with her Majesty's Irish Mail. Today, I've managed to add a few details to the quarter deck.


Cheers,


Oliver

[Oliver Weiss]

More progress - the stairs between bridge and main deck. They're not quite right yet. Unfortunately, I don't have plan material for these, so it's trial and error to get them to look right.

Cheers : Oliver

[bauerm]

Hello Oliver,

looks good but awful to build - I had my problems with the two front stairways on my model of Steam Boat Sabino.

Kind regards

Michael

[Don Boose]

As Michael said, those ladders are beautiful and will look great on the finished model, but seem to me to be a nightmare to design and build in paper.

Don

[Golden Bear]

Nice work. Those curved ladders can be a pain to model. Here's a pair from a project (after Inflexible) that I finished working on last night. The top one took me several tries using different techniques to get right but I quite like it now.

I need to order the side wheeler that you just put up for sale and then wait expectantly for this one...


Carl

[member_3]

Side-wheeler?? Do you have a new model that is not on your website, Oliver?? BTW - both of you - the curving staircases are very impressive. Are we going to film "Gone with the Wind" onboard?

[mabrown]

Looking very fine Oliver. Thanks to you, Carl, Barry and others for being willing to show your design progress. I'm learning a lot from threads like these.

Oliver, could you explain how your staircase is intended to be constructed? I've been looking at a staircase on your Livadia and it has obvious posts and handrails. Your curved staircase has slab sides at the moment. Is that the way they were in reality or do the sides as designed become some sort of a construction template for constructed posts and rails?

[Oliver Weiss]

Sure thing, Ron - as soon as Carl get's around to do the CSS "Tara". But only if you play Scarlet :)

Seriously, the toughest thing about these stairs is doing them over when you realize they don't look right. And then doing them over a third time. But what am I to do? Where am I to go? Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn... good thing tomorrow's anothah day.

As to the sidewheeler: I won't have it ready until the end of the month or so, but you can take a look at the test build here (http://www.papermodelers.com/forum/design-threads/2906-paddle-tug-anglia-1866-a.html). (And yes, silly goose, you've been posting in that thread, too ;)

Cheerio: Oliver

[member_3]

Well, all I can say to that is "Duh!" I confess to having gotten the two threads intermingled in my feeble old brain...but then I doesn't know nuffin' about birthin' no sidewheelers.

[Oliver Weiss]

Nice one, Ron :D

As to the stairs - third time's a charm, as the saying goes... These should be fun to build ;)

[member_3]

Why does the phrase, "...fun to build." send a chill down my spine?

[Don Boose]

Course authors at the Army War College have a similar phrase for use in faculty train up sessions: "This lesson will teach itself."

[THE DC]

Is that the excuse for offering teachers such low pay?????:D



The DC

[lee4752]

Course authors at the Army War College have a similar phrase for use in faculty train up sessions: "This lesson will teach itself."
Not to mention my Calc III instructor's favorite phrase: "It's intuitively obvious." Usually this was said while he was writing with one hand and simultaneously erasing with the other.

[Oliver Weiss]

Not much detail work left. Pretty soon I'll be out of excuses for not tackling the paddle wheels. I have to admit they frighten me a bit...

[Golden Bear]

Geez, I look away for a couple of minutes and Oliver's gone crazy on me. Modeling RISERS as well as steps? So, serioiusly now (you can keep the extra i for use later) were they really built as steps rather than ladders?

And it does look fun to me. Although attempting to get four funnels to look identical could be an effort.

Very nice work.


Carl

[mabrown]

Lovely looking piece of design and a very pretty vessel.

It has got me stumped how you guys manage to get these smooth hull shapes to unfold. My attempts so far have resulted in a lot of random triangulation and tearing when unfolding using the sketchup unfold script. I've resorted to manual subdivision of my hull to enforce some order. I marvel at the one piece hull sides I see on hulls every bit as curvy as the one I'm doing. My hull is most definitely not going to have one piece sides!

Designs like this are even more impressive to me now that I've tried it myself and pretty much failed to achieve what I wanted.

[Oliver Weiss]

@Golden Bear: Yes, Carl - steps they were! Considering it's "just the mailboat" this steamer was pretty posh. The funnels are going to be a bit of a challenge. I did manage to get three uniform funnels when I built Roman's "Oslyabya" ( see below), but this will be my first try at four...

@mabrown: Ah - well, the answer to your questions is: you don't! Even though Rhino offers ways to squish this kind of surface, it's not a proper development, and you'll never be able to put it back together. Instead, I cut the hull up into thin slices, unroll those and stitch them back together once they're flat. Alternatively, you could draw formers into this hull shape, then delete the hull skin and loft straight segments between the formers to unroll. That'll work, too, and I believe it's the more popular option. For this hull I'm actually planning to use a third method that has, I believe, not been tried before, so stick around ;)


Cheers : Oliver


http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/615/04.jpg

[Golden Bear]

Interesting. I've considered the formers to skin method but have always done the smooth hull and then chopped it into strips. I've been considering the other technique though as I'm trying to deal with making nice full hull shapes around the stern.

I'll look forward to learning method #3.


Carl

[mabrown]

@mabrown: Ah - well, the answer to your questions is: you don't! Even though Rhino offers ways to squish this kind of surface, it's not a proper development, and you'll never be able to put it back together. Instead, I cut the hull up into thin slices, unroll those and stitch them back together once they're flat. Alternatively, you could draw formers into this hull shape, then delete the hull skin and loft straight segments between the formers to unroll. That'll work, too, and I believe it's the more popular option. For this hull I'm actually planning to use a third method that has, I believe, not been tried before, so stick around ;)


Thanks for the tips Oliver. Turns out what I'm doing at the moment (the thin strips method) isn't so daft after all. In selected spots I've also created flattened surfaces from my original networked ones. Now that I know I'm not blazing some new trail, I'm a bit more confident to continue :)

Very intrigued by this mysterious third unfolding method.

PS. Your "Oslyabya" is a beautiful model.

[Art Deco]

The funnels are going to be a bit of a challenge. I did manage to get three uniform funnels when I built Roman's "Oslyabya" (see below), but this will be my first try at four...
Wow, that Oslyabya looks nice!

Would it be possible to design some sort of jig, tool, or template that would make it easier for the builder to construct identical funnels?

Lately I have been increasingly using the idea of "paper tools" that assist the builder in tricky steps. An architectural model I'm designing requires three identical ledges. I found it was a little difficult to get them perfectly and evenly square across their length. So I designed a simple little jig (below) that helps form the part. It works quite well.

Maybe something similar could help form the funnels, or hold them in the correct shape while the seam is glued? A jig/template with circular holes (or very short tubes) that the funnel parts slide through? See "1." in the rough sketch below.

Or maybe some kind of "funnel former" - an initial tube or form that the builder makes, then the funnels are made by wrapping around the temporary former? After the seam sets, the former is slid out. The former could be as simple as two intersecting panels, or the panels could be inside a cylinder, if that worked better. See "2." in the sketch.

Another idea (see "3."). This one assumes the funnels are made by butt-joining with a backing tab. Start out with a strip marked with two dotted lines. A tube is formed with the tube's edges attached to this strip along the dotted lines. The resulting tube will have a gap exposing the center of the strip (marked "X" in the sketch). Lay the funnel's backing tab along on the "X" area of the strip. Apply some glue to the inside of the funnel where the backing tab will attach, then wrap the funnel around the tube, with the seam meeting on top of the backing tab. Slide the finished funnel off the tube.

I'm not sure how feasible any of these ideas are, I'm just throwing them out there in case they are of use. Good luck! :)

[Oliver Weiss]

I needed a break from preparing the Anglia kit and decided to push this project a bit further. I've tinkered a bit more with the underwater hull. Here's what I'm thinking: instead of the usual cross-wise strips, I'm going to try skinning the hull with lengthwise strips, possibly in subtly alternating tones of red. I'm also thinking to cover the seams with a second layer of strips. The problem is that while many ships at the time were built that way, it doesn't appear that the Connaught or any of her sisters had that second layer of plating. I guess I'll do a test build and see how it looks.
In any case the upper hull would be all one piece.


Cheers,

Oliver

[Royaloakmin]

And just how is Three Finger Jack coming along???

I believe overlapping plates were the norm, even in this early period of iron construction, because they had to lap the plates to rivit them together. I would use your judgement. I think HMV has successfully used the lengthwise plating for some of their ships.

Good to see progress, Oliver.

[Barry]

Not knowing much about Rhino, when Marko was sending me the designs for seaplanes and cranes on Richelieu, we discovered that importing a .dxf file into Metasequoia and immediately exporting that to Pepakura produced a much better output from Pepakura in terms of curves. Pepa coughs a bit on the number of triangles, however if you just exported the underwater hull I think you would get pretty good results from the combination on unrolling. I had reasonable success doing this with the TSR 2 mesh Tim sent me.

[Oliver Weiss]

@Fred - Re: Anglia: don't worry, it won't be much longer now. I put the funnels on the test model yesterday, it fit beautifully. I got some more info on deck fittings etc. so I have to rework some of that. I also finished writing the historical notes :)

Re: longitudinal skinning - you're right, this is certainly not a new idea, but I think it is under-used considering its potential for complex hull shapes. We'll see how it comes out.



@Barry - thanks for the tip, though I don't know the first thing about pepakura. Did the hull development you mention produce lengthwise strips, or sectional?

Cheers,


Oliver

[Barry]

This one is split into sections and because it has so many pieces of almost identical size it gets a bit confused directly out of metasequoia, for some reason exporting in dxf from Rhino gives more cohesion. However in spite of the explosion it does actually know where each goes. The Loire seaplane is unedited from Metasequoia

It can be a bit labourious. I play with the sections until I reach a point where it starts to produce darts in the edges then modify the slices in metasequoia.

I never thought of it but slicing the model lengthwise should work just as well.

Looking at the original output from Pepa maybe I am crackers.

[Oliver Weiss]

Thank you very much, Barry, that's most interesting. So Pepakura decides where to split the surface into segments? I've got to look into this...

Cheers,

Oliver

[mabrown]

Re: longitudinal skinning - you're right, this is certainly not a new idea, but I think it is under-used considering its potential for complex hull shapes. We'll see how it comes out.

I'm looking forward to seeing how this comes out. As a newbie designer, this is one area I've struggled with. I considered doing my hull (for a WW2 cruiser) using strips, like a wooden boat, but decided it would be inappropriate for the type of ship as I didn't want overlapping strips and was concerned about the adjoining butted edges of strips if they weren't overlapped.

That said YuG's "Hiei" uses that method and looks great.

http://www.papermodelers.com/forum/ships-watercraft/2552-ijn-hiei-1-300-maly-2.html

[Yu Gyokubun]

Oliver-san,

I am looking forward to a ship's kit that has longitudinal skinning as you are planning. And subtly alternating tone of red sound wonderful.
I did longitudinal skinning on my ship but without using computer designing it is not easy to make curved skins near the bottom so I am counting on you to design the longitudinal skinning;)
In my opinion on overlapping is that it is not necessary to replicate it because considering real ships plate thickness it becomes 0.05mm or so, correct if I am wrong, at this scale so subtly alternating tone would be enough to represent overlapping....

[Oliver Weiss]

Thank you for your praise, Yu-san. I agree that the overlapping strips aren't strictly necessary. However, I thought they might be a good way to hide the seams of the first layer of strips. I'll try it both ways and see how it comes out.

Cheers,


Oliver

[Oliver Weiss]

As far as the formers are concerned, this will also be an experiment - the hull just keeps going and going, and practically no beam at all. I have no idea how this thing kept upright. So I've placed formers every 20mm and am using an extra longitudinal former on each side. I might have to add more formers at the ends. We'll see.

I learned quite a bit on paddle-wheeler stability on the paddleducks forum. I had somehow foolishly assumed the enormous paddle boxes on this ship would provide stability, like outriggers would. But the opposite is true. The rotating paddle wheels cause a constantly varying amount of drag on either side, depending how the seas are coming. The windward wheel might be swamped while the leeward one is spinning free, which would cause the ship to roll and yaw precariously. Apparently this was a constant cause of accidents. These Victorian mariners were stout fellows...

Cheers,


Oliver

[Oliver Weiss]

Ok, here's a test lower hull. Who's got time to do a white-build to test the theory? I'm still busy with the Anglia test build, so I can't do it right now, but I'd like to know if it's safe to proceed with this technique. In case you're wondering: my design and build times come out of different buckets: design daily at lunch, build twice a week at night.

Instructions are minimal, but I don't think there's much required, either. In any case I'll be happy to answer any questions. For the hull plating, numbers "f" are "fore" and "a" are aft.

Thanks guys, your assistance will speed this project up (though I won't be able to match Carl's speed. Ever :)


NOTE: the zip file at the bottom contains the full-resolution sheets.


Cheers,


Oliver

[Oliver Weiss]

No takers? Wow. I guess I have to put Anglia on hold for this week and do it myself ;)


Cheers,


Oliver

[B-Manic]

I'd like to but I just have too much on my plate right now. 5 models on the go two with approaching deadlines and two business trips coming up.

[APA-168]

oh, I'll do it! I can get to it this weekend for sure! Let me know :)

[Oliver Weiss]

Oh, Excellent, Avery, thank you so much! You'll get a free kit when it's finished! Could you also post some pictures when you're done? It should be pretty straight forward, but there are a couple of gotchas, so please read the following carefully:

1. connect the two sections of the base plate. (the top one is the bow)
2. Laminate the longitudinal former on two thicknesses of card stock. the final piece should be about 0.4mm thick.
3. glue the longitudinal former to the base plate. The square part is the stern.
4. glue the cross-wise formers to each side of the longitudinal former. Number 2 is the first former at the bow.
5. connect the two additional longitudinal formers and insert into the slits in the crosswise formers.

Now cut out each strip of hull planking. connect strips 1f and 1a and start planking the hull from the baseplate up. "f" indicates the front. The former has the keel built in, so the front tip of the strip is glued at the line, not at the edge of the former! You may want to mark the pieces with pencil so you don't get confused. The top edge of the first strip (1f/a) is mounted against the edge of the base plate, each successive strip abutts the edge of the preceeding strip.

I'm looking forward to the result!

Cheers,

Oliver

[APA-168]

Thank you Oliver! As I said, I will have plenty of time this weekend to get it done. Plenty of photos will document the process. :)

[Oliver Weiss]

Thank you very much, Avery! I look forward to it. I'll be online off and on during the weekend, in case you have questions.

Cheers,


Oliver

[Oliver Weiss]

I guess that didn't work out, Avery? Here's what famous Frenchman had to say on the subject: "The best way to keep one's word is not to give it" ;)


So ... any other takers?

Cheers,

Oliver

[zot]

Oliver
I'll give it a shot if you would like.

Scott

[Oliver Weiss]

"Great Scott!" :)

Seriously - That'd be great, Scott!


Thanks so much,


Oliver

[APA-168]

I guess that didn't work out, Avery? Here's what famous Frenchman had to say on the subject: "The best way to keep one's word is not to give it" ;)


So ... any other takers?

Cheers,

Oliver

Oliver, I did finish it. I'd appreciate it if you could bear with me for a moment on this. Thanks. My camera is not working at the moment. I am also writing up the build. I should have it done tonight. Again, please don't jump to conclusions so quick it tends to put people off.

[Oliver Weiss]

That's wonderful to hear, Avery - please forgive me for the "flame". I was having a very disappointing day in many other respects and allowed my frustration to get the better of me. I should not have taken it out on you. I'm sincerely sorry!

Sincerely,


Oliver

[zot]

Oliver,
Would you still like for me to continue with my build?

[APA-168]

That's wonderful to hear, Avery - please forgive me for the "flame". I was having a very disappointing day in many other respects and allowed my frustration to get the better of me. I should not have taken it out on you. I'm sincerely sorry!

Sincerely,


Oliver

It's alright Oliver, I am very sympathetic as I have had those days a lot recently. I have finished the written report, and am trying to get the camera fixed. I should have it fixed soon, if not I'll go ahead and post the written report tonight.

Please forgive my previous shortness with you also, I've had a very busy day and am now very tired! Two reports in one day (one of them a student engineering report!) took a lot out of me!

[Oliver Weiss]

Thank you Avery, you're too gracious! Take your time - I look forward to seeing your results!

Scott - if you do have the time and inclination, yes, it would be a great help if you could continue - at least until you have a clear picture of "this is impossible" or "this is possible, but it's gonna look like sh*t" or "yeah, this is easy and looks great"

Thank you both ever so much!


Cheers,


Oliver

[APA-168]

Alright, here is the first part of the report.

I began cutting out the formers and laminating them per Oliver's instructions. Once everything was the proper thickness I assembled the frame. It fit together very nicely with only a couple of problems caused by my own mistakes which were not at all a fault of the model. The one thing I did notice was some of the numbers were too close to their respective frames and cut off a mm or so of the bottom tip of the frame. Otherwise printing was all OK. The frame is quite sturdy. I glued the base plate to a piece of scrap lumber during assembly and the frame holds its shape quite well. The additional longitudinal formers add quite a bit of strength and make the frame less prone to twisting and I wish more manufacturers would take this route for their kits.

My camera is working but it's too dark to take pics now and I'd like to have photos to aid with the next part of the report which is of course the all-important hull sheeting. I'll take some pics tomorrow in the AM (assuming the camera still works :rolleyes: )

[zot]

Here's what I managed to get done last night. I'm cutting bulkheads as we speak. I think that building "plank on bulkhead" style is an interesting approach. Hopefully, I'll get to start trying it this evening. It's our 19th anniversary today and for some reason my wife thinks that I should spend some time with her.:rolleyes::D

[Oliver Weiss]

That's great Scott, you certainly have your priorities straight! However, in the interest of continued conjugal relations, you may want to consider taking the missus out to dinner instead. Just looking out for ya ;)

Happy Anniversary :)

Oliver

[APA-168]

Hi Oliver, camera still on the fritz let me know if you'd like me to go ahead and post the report. Will be getting a new camera tomorrow. Let me know. :)

[Oliver Weiss]

Oh yes, definitely! Sorry to hear about the camera :(

[APA-168]

So once I had finished the frame I cut out all the hull sheeting and began to work at the bow section. The one thing I really missed was a diagram showing how the sheeting fitted to the hull as (especially with the first pieces) it was somewhat difficult to envision how they fit. Once I had fiddled them into position I found it was no harder than the "normal" technique to get everything to look right. I had printed the sheets on slightly heavier card and am glad I did as it held the shape better. One thing I would do differently next time is glue the fore and aft sections of sheeting together so the seam midway down the length of the hull is neater. This of course is no fault of the designer. It was fairly easy going and didn't take as much time as I thought it would. And the final result was "WOW!" It may just be me, but I LOVE this technique! It looks way cool and I cannot wait to build the finished product. I gave the final model an airbrushed coat of red and I think I'll keep it as a model unto itself. Kudos to you Oliver for a very realistic and easy to build hull. I had no fit problems and the hull is very strong and as I have said repeatedly looks great! Bravo zulu and thanks for your patience with me ;)

If there's anything specific you want to know just ask.

[Oliver Weiss]

Oh most excellent news, Avery! Can you please post some pictures when you have your new camera? I'm curious to see how the seams come out. Thanks a lot for doing this, and yes, do keep this hull, 'coz you'll have the rest of the kit coming your way as soon as it's ready! (in time for Christmas, possibly ;)

Again, thanks a lot and I can't wait to see the pictures!

Cheers,

Oliver

[zot]

Oliver,
Here's my progress from yesterday. Sorry for the poor pics. Cameras and I just don't get along. I hope you enjoy them anyway.

So far everything is going fairly well. There is a small issue that I have noticed to this point. Some of the slots for the secondary longitudinal formers aren't as defined as well as others both in the formers and bulkheads. This makes cutting them and placing the formers accurately a bit tricky.

I have to agree with Avery. This frame is nice and sturdy. I will start joining the hull plating strips later this evening and keep you posted

[Oliver Weiss]

This looks great, Scott! Thanks for the feedback, I'll make the slots a little more pronounced. Oh, and of course you should hold on to the finished hull as well, since I'll be sending you the rest of the kit, too :)

Looking forward to more pictures!

Cheers,


Oliver

[zot]

Cool! Thank you very much! I'm just glad I could help.

[mabrown]

That hull shape looks really nice.

Oliver, is there a particular reason that you have used additional vertical formars rather than horizontal ones?

[Oliver Weiss]

Doesn't it though? long, strong, sinewy...I think this is going to be one of my favorite projects!

I added the longitudinal stringers to prevent twisting. I don't think horizontal ones would have done that. Then again, I'm no engineer, so I'm certainly willing to be taught better!


Cheers,

Oliver

[zot]

Oliver, I think the design of the hull frame is very sound. I've added the first "plank" to it this morning. I'll post more pics as I progress.

[Oliver Weiss]

Excellent! Looking good so far.

[Golden Bear]

I AM an engineer, believe it or not, along with degrees in Anthropology. I'm either a renaissance person or just confused.

Formers on either plane should have similar effect to counter twisting, the maximum effect coming with the longest lever arm. However, I suspect that you might be also worried about bowing and the vertical formers will do your best job of counteracting them. I would also recommend using only the tiniest amount of gluing to hold the formers in position rather than trying to use glue structurally. Almost all adhesives will shrink when they dry and this would encourage bowing/warping.

Of course the skins will probably have copious glue applied to them and since this is at the outer surface of the structure, can have great effect. However, I've had good luck with structures using extra long formers like this model.


Carl

[Oliver Weiss]

Yes! I got the "Golden Bear of Approval"! - Oh, and you're definitely a Renaissance man! (make that mid-to-late Victorian Man).

[zot]

Please don't underestimate my talents. I can make the most straight and stable design warp and bow beyond belief.:D

A little more progress to show.

[Golden Bear]

I don't know about that. It is a beauty from where I sit.

[Oliver Weiss]

I agree with Carl. This looks quite good!

I can't see it properly, but I think the seams are more pronounced than one would wish. (this reflects on the design, not on you, Scott!) Seeing that not everybody will want to spackle and paint the hull, I think I should add a second layer of alternating strips to hide the seams. What do you think?

Cheers,


Oliver

[Oliver Weiss]

Incidentally, I'm thinking of powering this model. Unfortunately, I don't have a clue about RC motors etc. Does anybody have experience with that?

Cheers,


Oliver

[APA-168]

Hi Oliver, not to butt in here but I think that a second layer of strips would be nice, not 100% necessary. My seams were more pronounced than I'd like but I assumed that it was my building skills! If, however, Scott is experiencing the same thing than perhaps a second layer would produce superior results, as well as adding some nice texture to the hull. I'll also get some finished photos up this evening, with my new camera! :D

[zot]

Oliver, I've finished covering the frame. I did end up with one significant gap. You can see it to the left of the keel in the photos. I was thinking of shooting the hull with some primer to see if it would give a better idea as to what was parts outline and what was gap. Although, at this stage, it may not be the be-all-end-all method it still builds well. Next try I'll probably add backing strips behind the planks to help even the butt joints out so it doesn't look like a clinker built hull.

[zot]

Here's two more pics.

[Royaloakmin]

Oliver, take a look at the redone HMV Panther if you can. They have added a underwater hull designed similar to yours. the difference is that the longitudinal formers are set at angles to the keel and baseplate, like spokes. it looks very strong. I will send you a scan later. I do think you have a successful approach.\, just more food for thought.

[Oliver Weiss]

@ Scott - Thanks for the pictures. I think that looks very good already, but I think I can still improve on the design.
Here are some questions:


Did you have the impression that all the strips were too narrow so that the gap is a result of the accumulated discrepancies, or did it seem just the last strip is off?
It looks like the hull is warping upwards at the bow and the stern. While this would be lessened in the finished kit by having the upper framework in place before planking, it's still a big concern. Did you glue the frame to a flat surface while planking? If so, and it still warped, I might have to cut the strips into more sections to avoid the warping.
Did the strips lay nicely against each other, or did you have to struggle to make them fit? Did it seem like there was too much or too little material in places? The reason I'm asking is that I used Rhino's _Squish command to do the development of double-curved surfaces, and it's changing the surface area ever so slightly.
It also seems that the planking may best be done with thick stock, like manila folder or cereal box stock. This would minimize sag between the frames. Do you think the frames were spaced too tightly, too far apart, or just right?
Did you feel integrating the keel into the main former helped or hindered? Was it hard fitting the beginning / end of the strips to the line?


Thanks again, you have no idea how much this helps!


@Fred - I haven't seen that kit, but I know exactly what you mean. I had contemplated putting the side stringer in diagonally, but thought it would complicate matters without adding much additional strength. Carl - what's your opinion on that?

Cheers,

Oliver

[Golden Bear]

Tilted long formers should have the same effect on strength as orthogonal. I'm in the process of designing a set into the Inflexible hull (great minds, etc., heh?) but for the purpose of easing the "starving dog" problem.

I think that your design for this with the long hull strips will be particularly prone to bowing because of the continuity of the surfaces from one end to the other. With discrete sections, cut vertically, any shrinkage due to humidity, stretching during fastening, and gluing will be mostly in the up and down direction. With the longitudinal skins these forces will be longitudinal and will bow the hull if they can.

However, you are building the hull as a free body while I imagine that you intend to build it while fastened to the upper part of the ship. It is probable that the hull warping will be balanced similar forces on the upper parts of the model. I have a highly experimental idea/technique that I could share with you if you want to email me about it that might help with the hull bending.

I'm also interested by the noticeable egg-cartoning on the hull which I haven't seen on your other models. Do you think that this has something to do with the long skins or some other explanation? I find this to be a real concern.


Carl

[zot]

Oliver,
Here's a pic of the hull on my workspace. Part of the bowed appearance may be due to the surface that the hull was sitting on wasn't perfectly flat. I hope this photo will give you a better idea of how it sits.

I am working on answering your other questions, but I have a pretty significant headache this morning and getting my thoughts from my brain into print in a way that is understandable is proving difficult at the moment. I'll get them typed up throughout the day and get them posted this evening.

Carl,
I'm still learning the cardboard scene. What do you mean by eggcartoning?

[zot]

I forgot this.

[Royaloakmin]

Oliver, I forgot to mention that there were two formers on each side of the keel.

[Oliver Weiss]

Scott - feel better! I get migraines from the pollen around this time of year, so I can relate.

This last picture is really important - the bending seen in it appears to be negligble, and, as Carl rightly stated, should be eliminated completely when the hull is planked with the upper hull formers on top. Now I feel better :)

I noticed the egg-crating, too, i.e. the appearance of sagging areas between the formers. In other words, you can see the formers poking through. In my experience this is most likely caused by either the glue contracting the card stock at the formers, or excessive pressure on the planking during installation. It's usually very pronounced when viewing the hull end-on, but not so bad when seen at an angle. I think using sturdier card stock might help, and also using a minimum amount of glue on the formers. Another option might be to add diagonal stringers of the kind Fred mentioned on the centerline of each strip, to form a support. This might be worth pursuing, though it'd be a lot of slots to cut!

Cheers,

Oliver

[rickstef]

Carl,
I'm still learning the cardboard scene. What do you mean by eggcartoning?

The ships internal frame, looks like an egg carton, you could place eggs in each of the spaces

[Oliver Weiss]

Erm...I understood Carl's comment on "egg-crating" differently - Carl, can you clarify?

Cheers,

Oliver

[zot]

Oliver, If it follows your explanation you can probably charge that to me more than the design. I'm a pretty heavy handed modeller. About as dainty as a 20lb sledgehammer you might say. I used 110lb card so I feel it's probably more of a result of the builder than design.

To follow up on the hull stability. At no time was this hull attached to a building board...well except one time accidentally. I planked it just as it were a wooden ship. I started with the first strip then added the corresponding strip to the other side continuing back and forth from side to side so the hull could cure as evenly as possible. Given that info, I think it's pretty stable.

[Oliver Weiss]

Don't put yourself down, Scott! I think you did very well. The flaw is in the design. This is paper, after all, and it will do whatever it wants. The trick is to design the formers such that what the paper wants is also what we want....I guess that's the Zen of card modeling...

Cheers,

Oliver

[Golden Bear]

By "egg cartoning" I mean the same thing as "starving dog look." That, is the cross formers stand out clearly through the skin. As Oliver says, it comes from gluing or pressure during gluing.


Carl

[zot]

Oliver, To answer your questions:

I think that the gaps were probably an accumulated problem. The reason that the one is so noticable is because my keel bows slightly to one side in that area. If my keel were perfectly straight, the gaps would probably be about 1/64" or less on each side.

The strips fit together pretty well. I did have the use some very slight persuasion in the transition areas where the strips twist to the bow and stern. They wanted to gap slightly but once I was past the transition they went together with no problems. Mid hull they were no problem.

Since this is my firsy experience with this method in card, I don't know if I can give any accurate info about the strips being too wide or narrow. These would be my initial thoughts:

I would think that narrower strips would help form the curvature of the hull as far as the cross-section goes, but with the accuracy needed to cut the strips over that length to avoid gapping would really raise the difficulty of the hull. Wider strips would probably be better for a smoother hull but I don't know how well the skins would conform to the compound curves involved.

I have a few things that I need to take care of so I'll continue a little later.

[zot]

Oliver,
Do you think skinning each side with only two pieces would work? Combining strips 1,2 and3 as one and 4,5,and6 as the other?

[APA-168]

Just as a control, my experience was no gaps in the hull. I started differently, working from the keel out and I used heavier than normal card which probably helped. I'll post some pics tonight.

[Oliver Weiss]

Avery - any luck with the pictures? No rush, just curious.

Cheers,

Oliver

[Oliver Weiss]

I guess I wasn't all that off with my first assessment ;)

[APA-168]

If you mean the "the best way to keep your word..." asessment, than forget the pictures. I have them on my laptop, but thought I had posted them already. But you know what, if you're going be a delightful prick about it then screw it. I'm sorry but the second time round my graciousness has run its course. I'm very busy and have better things to do.Ta ta!

[rickstef]

Guys take this private NOW!!

This should have been handled private along

Rick

[APA-168]

Rick, it's over, I have no interest in any further dealings with Mr. Weiss.

[Oliver Weiss]

While I'm pondering how best to reduce the egg-crating problem while keeping the number of formers reasonable, I started on the paddle wheels. The intent is to make working feathering paddle wheels at 1:250 scale. They'll be about 40mm in diameter. The task shouldn't be impossible, though it may very well be unreasonable.

Cheers,


Oliver

[Royaloakmin]

Working? or just with all the detail? It would be neat to see properly done feathering wheels.

Many things can cause eggcrating-not sanding the formers, too much glue, too thin paper, don't throw the baby out in the bathwater. Your frame spaing looks adequate to me.

[Oliver Weiss]

Working, Fred. I think it can be achieved at that size, I just have my doubts about paper as the main material. There are a lot of twisting / torquing forces at play. Then again, the Victorians did this with brittle cast iron. Perhaps hardened paper has similar properties.

We'll see!

[redhorse]

What are you going to harden it with? I've used CA and it has leathery properties...

[Oliver Weiss]

I guess that might depend on the CA glue used. I'm using a liquid that I brush on. It stays leathery for a few hours, then it gets hard and brittle so that you can sand it. I've also tried wood hardener. That gives a tough yet flexible (not leathery) feel to the parts, but the smell make using it indoors impossible. I'm still looking for the magic bullet to make paper behave like metal :rolleyes:

[CharlieC]

Then again, the Victorians did this with brittle cast iron. Perhaps hardened paper has similar properties.

We'll see!

Victorian structural iron work was usually based on wrought iron not cast iron. Wrought iron is about 0.2% Carbon and was usually worked by hot forging. It usually has a "wood grain" appearance because of the stringers of slag in the iron. Cast iron is about 3-4% Carbon and is brittle (except for malleable iron) but is easy to cast and machine.

Have you tried Sanding Sealer to stiffen card? The result isn't as brittle and hard as CA and, of course, the treated card sands very well. The downside is that it smells awful so indoors use isn't practical.

Regards,

Charlie

[Oliver Weiss]

Finally the "Anglia" is out the door (and available at Walden Models - Curiosities for the Experienced Card Modeler (http://www.waldenmodels.com)!), so I'm picking this project up again. I've started working on the wheels. They will be almost twice as big as Anglia's, but they do look ten times more complex... This will be quite a challenge!

Cheers,


Oliver

[rmks2000]

Wow! That is delicate work.

[Oliver Weiss]

Thanks! Though on the computer it's not all that hard :)

[Golden Bear]

I'm looking forward to hints on how you build it! I've got to order Anglia too. Superb work there.


Carl

[Yu Gyokubun]

I can imagine how nice the wheel will be when we build it out of paper. It will enhance collective impression of the ship

[Oliver Weiss]

It will, provided I don't go mental before! The structure is getting crowded, and it doesn't even have all the feathering rods and stuff yet...

[buffalowings]

mow that's some good detail, keep up the good work

[B-Manic]

Thats going to be a bit of a challenge to build. I'm thinking some sort of jig might be a useful aid to getting all the parts properly aligned?

[Michael Mash]

Anglia is a beautiful addition to your site Oliver. Marvelous work. These wheels for Connaught will be something to see. This is trailblazing stuff.
Mike

[Oliver Weiss]

Here we go ... Feathering rods are on. There are still a couple of glitches I need to fix, but it *should* work.

[Oliver Weiss]

And one more of the whole thing. This will be one sweet steamer. Does anybody know why my image uploads are being reformatted and resized?

[Golden Bear]

I don't have an answer to that, Oliver. I pretty much just attach my JPGs without doing anything and they come out looking large when clicked on.

If this is another 1:250 model it will be quite a feat to build these wheels! I've been toying with Anglia and it is really adorable next to my wallowing battleships!


Carl

[Royaloakmin]

Oooh boy, lookin good, Oliver.

[Oliver Weiss]

Thanks, Fred!
The bridge is gaining in complexity. Note that I model the railings as solid surfaces, so I can unroll them later.

[Gil]

Build the wheel Oliver, build the wheel. Build the wheel Oliver, build the wheel. Build the wheel Oliver, build the wheel. . . ,

+Gil

[B-Manic]

If you build it they will come

[Oliver Weiss]

Hold your horses, Gentlemen. You heard the man: "Our nation needs to learn delayed gratification" This is as good a place to start as any - there shall be no cutting of paper until the model is fully designed :) This doesn't mean you need to sit idle, though - I'd like some suggestions on how I could make the paddle wheels turn on the finished model, without putting all kinds of mechanics into the hull. Nothing fancy - just a kind of crank or knob that can be turned to make the wheels spin slowly and show off the feathering mechanism. Let's hear it!

In the meantime, I decided to model the actual railings after all, just for show!

Cheers,

Oliver

[lehcyfer]

Just put them both on a single metal wire going through the ship and let them rotate freely - with a finger - the round edge should be strong enought for it. There's no place for a knob as far as I can see.

[B-Manic]

How about something similar to a rubber band airplane only with a gear ratio to slow down the rotation speed.

[Oliver Weiss]

Hi all,
Though reports of my demise were greatly exaggerated it is true that I have not shown my face here for a few good months. Alas, designing paper models is a labor of love, and if it is money we need it must be sought elsewhere. Now however I've picked this project up again and am making my way forward, slowly but surely.

Originally I had planned to divide the underwater hull lengthwise and plank it with strips of paper, and I thank you all for your help and input. Several trials soon made it clear that this was not the way to go. The combined length of the lengthwise seams was naturally much greater than that of crosswise strips, hence there were many more chances to screw things up. So in the end I stuck with the crosswise strips we all know and love. I just made a lot of them to keep the hull as curvy as possible.


Here you see the hull being assembled, the finished paper hull, the results of the first spackle-and-sand round, and the final product. The last picture shows the upper hull formers in place. They're not glued down yet.

Cheers,

Oliver

[Don Boose]

It is a beautiful hull.

Don

[Thomas Meek]

It's really looking good, Oliver! I've been watching this beauty from the start, and it looks better and better.

[papermodelfan]

Terrific finish on the hull. I have never tried to "spackle and sand" a paper model (just lots and lots of wallboard). What materials do you use? How do you keep the paper from getting too soggy?

[Oliver Weiss]

Thanks, guys!

Rob - I don't think you could use water-based spackle, at least not without treating the paper somehow first. I use Bondo (automotive two-component filler) which doesn't affect the paper (though it might affect your brain - use ventilation). Just like on a wood-planked model, I apply the filler lightly all over, then sand it off almost to the bare paper. Spots where I go through into the paper tend to fuzz up, which I rectify with 1500 grit sandpaper. Then prime, fill in rough spots, sand, then prime again. In this case the primer had just the right shade of red, so I'm going to keep it this way. Once the hull is complete, I'll coat it with a clear satin top-coat.

Cheers,


Oliver

[Oliver Weiss]

Progress, though, very slowly, is being made. I've got the upper hull formers installed. The whole setup is quite rigid and very straight. So far I'm happy that I've added the two side stringers.

The support for the paddle wheel sponsons was to consist of a solid piece of corrugated cardboard. I figured that, when used crosswise, this would afford me the directional strength I need to prevent the sponsons from wobbling up and down. As it turned out, my first test seemed to prove the opposite effect. The cardboard warped spectacularly and no amount of pressing could convince it to lie flat. I'm going to give the cardboard one more shot, using a fresh piece that has not spent time in the basement, and a non-water based glue. If this fails to, I'm going to stick with card and build a system of stringers for support instead.

Has anyone any other ideas? Keep in mind I want to avoid using wood or plastic...

Cheers,


Oliver

[Kazziga]

Is this project alive? I hope it is as there aren't many kits of such beautiful paddle steamers.

[Oliver Weiss]

Thank you for your interest! Alive - yes, but in suspended animation. I'm quite keen on finishing the model, but I haven't had a single spare moment to work on it, and won't for the near future, either. I'm hopeful for the second half of 2013, but don't hold me to it :)

Cheers,


Oliver

[Thomas Meek]

Thanks, Oliver. Good to know the project still lives, suspended animation or not. I think that when you are able to revive it, there will be a lot of interest.

[Royaloakmin]

Hi Oliver, good to see you are well. We can wait.

[Kazziga]

Thanks for information. It's good to hear that the project will be ready one day.

[Michael Mash]

Hello Oliver,
It was a pleasure to see your recent update about this project. So good to hear this one will continue when time allows. Looking forward to it.
Mike