C-87 Liberator Express + AT-22 (B-24D)

[airdave]

So, I got this request for a "memorial" model.
The family of a WW2 hero who flew a number of different aircraft,
and trained to fly B29 bombers near the end of the War.
The facts are sketchy...as far as what he flew in, what he trained on, where, when,etc

but in the end, I have agreed to do a "fantasy" B-24 in the form of a C-87/AT-22
with various markings and artwork representing different aspects of this Pilot's career.
This will be a one-off just for them.

But first...
I have to create a kit of a C-87
(from that I can create an AT-22, the B-29 Flight Engineer Training aircraft)

The C-87 Liberator Express is the "transport" version of the B-24D.
There are a few differences, but mainly just a modified B-24D - armaments and Turrets removed,
nose and tail fairings added, nose Cargo door and left side fuselage cargo doors added.
A floor was added in the Bomb Bay area, seats and windows to accommodate about 3 dozen passengers.

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/B24%20Liberator/C-87.jpg
http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/B24%20Liberator/th_C-87-6.jpg (http://s1125.photobucket.com/user/cutandfold/media/B24%20Liberator/C-87-6.jpg.html) http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/B24%20Liberator/th_C-87A.jpg (http://s1125.photobucket.com/user/cutandfold/media/B24%20Liberator/C-87A.jpg.html)

I am still trying to locate a photo of an AT-22.
The AT-22 is variant of the C-87 aircraft...only five of which were produced.
I am under the impression that all differences* (from a C-87) are interior.
*to accommodate Instructors, training equipment and trainees.

But I would really like to confirm any visible exterior differences by seeing an actual photo.

...
The C-87
I have completed the two major modifications of the B-24D model by altering the Nose and Tail sections.

I have to send out big thanks to Gary Pilsworth who created the basic 3D models for the new nose and tail fairings.
For some reason I really struggled with my first nose redesign....and combined with too many other projects on the go,
I just couldn't get going on the work. So I reached out to Gary, who I know does great 3D model work, and he graciously
helped me with a simple, but well designed three part template for each modification.

Just a tweak here and there...add some texture and colour and surface details...and there it is.
These are the two final test builds of the new nose and tail parts.
Not sure if I will build the entire fuselage, but this confirms what I needed to know.

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/B24%20Liberator/th_c-87-test-02.jpg (http://s1125.photobucket.com/user/cutandfold/media/B24%20Liberator/c-87-test-02.jpg.html) http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/B24%20Liberator/th_c-87-test-03.jpg (http://s1125.photobucket.com/user/cutandfold/media/B24%20Liberator/c-87-test-03.jpg.html)
http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/B24%20Liberator/c-87-test-01.jpg

I have got most of the B-24 kit converted over to "bare metal" finish
and I have also added the new parts.
Next job is to update the Instruction pages
and then make sure all uneccessary parts are removed from the kit.
eg guns, turret parts, bomb bay details, etc

I plan on producing a US version as depicted in the first photo in this thread.
In fact it will be 44-52987

I will also do this BOAC version (shown below)
Apparently plenty of C-87s went to England for use in Ferry transport across the Atlantic and into northern Europe.
BOAC airlines bought a few for their civilian transport efforts.
So I think that will make a cool model with the RAF insignia and BOAC logos.

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/BOACC-87.jpg

Reminder, if anyone comes across a photo of one of the AT-22s, I would love to see it!

[Don Boose]

Outstanding project.

Always nice to see collaboration among paper model designers.

Another variation was the C-109 tanker used to support the MATTERHORN operation (B-29 bomber offensive from bases in China)? However, I believe the the C-109s were converted from B-24Js and, therefore, were different in appearance from the AT-22 and C-87. This MIA recovery-related page has many images of aircraft lost flying the Hump and includes a low-resolution scan from the Squadron/Signal pub on te B-24 that shows what the C-109 looked like. Historical Background : Lost Aircraft MIA in China Burma India (http://www.miarecoveries.org/historical_background.html)

Don

[MacSongLi]

This is a great idea Dave (also a thanks to Gary P.), the nose looks fantastic. I look forward to the development, and release of the BOAC version.

Gary

[Leif Ohlsson]

This is a long-time dream of mine, the C-87, and I am really looking forward to one of these, not least the British one. I believe one of those visited Sweden (have to look it up) on regular courier runs or repatriation tasks. It was considered for the first Swedish modern (for its time) airliner, but the eventual choice became the B-17s. Even so, I'd like to work on a fantasy version of the C-87 in ABA livery, similar to the SAAB conversions of the B-17.

So, count me in for a purchase.

Leif

[airdave]

I am very glad to see there is interest.

But can someone find me a pic of that blasted AT-22? lol

[Don Boose]

I forgot to mention, I will buy one, too.

The B-24D really made a nice-looking cargo aircraft. Most bombers look a little odd when they have been demilitarized, but the C-87 (and, presumably, the AT-22) really looks quite attractive to my eye (not so much true of the C-109, which looks rather lumpy).

Don

PS: No joy on AT-22/TB-24D images, but found this photo by Larkins of a TB-24L Serial 44-9630: http://www.aerofiles.com/conso-TB24L.jpg (http://www.aerofiles.com/conso-TB24L.jpg) Unfortunately, the TB-24L was a modified C-109, modified from a B-24J airframe, so no help in your current search.

Consolidated (http://www.aerofiles.com/_conso.html):

AT-22 1943 = Engineer-trainer version of B-24 and, C-87; redesignated TB-24. POP: 5 [42-10726, 43-30549, -30561, -30574, -30584].

TB-24 (from AT-22) 194? = Conversion of B-24D for specialized advanced training. Armament removed, and six stations added in the fuselage for instruction of engineers in power-plant management as required in B-29 and B-32.

TB-24D 1943 = Trainer for flight engineers, redesignated from AT-22. POP: 4 [43-30549, -30561, -30574, -30584].
Former C-109 [44-49630] (William T Larkins)
http://www.aerofiles.com/cleardot.gif
B-24L, TB-24L (Consolidated, Ford) 1944 = Similar to B-24J, but with a lightweight tail turret and two manually-operated guns with a wider field of fire. POP: 1,667 (417 by Consolidated, 1,250 by Ford), plus 355 to RAF as Liberator VIII; trainer conversions as TB-24L.
Consolidated C-109 Converted to TB-24L in 1946 [44-49630] (William T Larkins)
http://www.aerofiles.com/pix1.gifConsolidated TB-24L (http://www.aerofiles.com/conso-TB24L.jpg) Former C-109 [44-49630] (William T Larkins)
http://www.aerofiles.com/cleardot.gif
B-24L, TB-24L (Consolidated, Ford) 1944 = Similar to B-24J, but with a lightweight tail turret and two manually-operated guns with a wider field of fire. POP: 1,667 (417 by Consolidated, 1,250 by Ford), plus 355 to RAF as Liberator VIII; trainer conversions as TB-24L.

[SCEtoAUX]

This site Consolidated (http://www.aerofiles.com/_conso.html) mentions that some C-87 were redesignated as AT-22 by the USAF and RY-2 by the US Navy.

C-87 1942 = Production version; four 1200hp supercharged P&W R-1830-43; span: 110'0" length: 66'4" range: 1400-3300 ceiling: 28,000'. POP: 279 [42-107249/107275, 43-30548/30568, -30572/30627, 44-39198/39298, -52978/52987] plus coversions from B-24D> [41-11608=41-36900, -11639/11642, -11655/11657, -11674/11676, -11704, -11706/11709, -11728/11733, -11742/11747, -11788/11789, -11800, -11837/11838, -11907/11908, -23669/23670, -23694/23696, -23791/23793, -23850/23852, -23859/23862, -23903/23905, -23959, -24004/24006, -24027/24029, -24139/24141, -24158, -24160/24163, -24172/24173]. Of these, 4 became AT-22 flight-engineer trainers [43-30549, -30561, -30574, -30584] (redesignated TB-24D in 1944), and 5 [44-39198/39202] to USN as RY-2 [39013/39017], plus many to RAF in 1944 as Liberator C.VII.

This site Consolidated RY-1/-2 Liberator - Warbird Photo Album (http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/album/color-photos/p16142-consolidated-ry-1-2f-2-liberator.html) has a picture of what it calls a RY-2.
It is proving to be very difficult to find a photo of an AT-22 aircraft.

[airdave]

Still no luck finding a photo of that elusive AT-22!
At this point it is mainly just to confirm the exterior colour(s) and any specific markings.
I have pretty much confirmed that all modifications from the C-87 base aircraft
are internal mods...seat and berth removal, installation of equipment and Engineers stations.
Basically turning the inside into a classroom for half a dozen Flight Engineers.

But... I have finished all the fuselage modifications to the C-87
and just have some artwork to clean up.

I tried to assemble the fuselage over the weekend.
And this is what you get when you watch TV and don't pay attention to what you are doing! lol

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/B24%20Liberator/C-87long1.jpg

Granted, I haven't got the most experience with building the B-24 in its entirety.
Yes, I have built every single section and area of the model, but I 've never put them all
together into a full aircraft!

This B24 model uses a "thru-the-body" wing assembly and requires a 3 part Former assembly
that goes in the middle section of the fuselage.
I was rushing...and not paying attention...and fumbling and forcing things together...
and finally I wrinkled (and ripped!) part of the forward section.

After that, I crushed the Tail section where it connects!

Too lazy to build new parts, I trimmed, and smoothed and glued until it was all together.

In the end its passable for a couple of photos.
The goal was mainly just to check artwork as well as Nose and Tail assemblies, so all is well in
those areas.

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/B24%20Liberator/C-87long2.jpg

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/B24%20Liberator/C-87long3.jpg

I have to tweak the side Windows...move the row a little bit and re-align them all.
And I need to try a different "astro-bubble" window on the top.
I don't like the shape of this one.

I do have one question...I can't decide between the plain black window
or the gradient colouring, which represents the glass windows.

Obviously clear windows could be installed using plastic, but thats a builder's option.
If left intact, would you prefer the plain black or gryed look?

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/B24%20Liberator/detail.jpg

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/service/pnp/fsa/8b04000/8b04800/8b04824r.jpg

[Don Boose]

Beautiful airplane!

I like the gryed look for the windows.

Don

[nighthawk78]

Looking good, watching this project intently.
NH78

[chaparral2d]

Beautiful work!

Dave

[MacSongLi]

Definitely the gradient windows Dave!

Gary

[nikischutt]

I like the "new" nose, very sleek. IMHO enhances the Liberator's lines.

[John Bowden]

I got to see "Diamond Lil" up close several years ago and got interested in the freight carrying versions of the Liberator from that.

Glad to see you doing this conversion Dave, it's nice to see the lessor known versions of these great planes finally getting representation in the modeling world.

[willygoat]

I got to see "Diamond Lil" up close several years ago and got interested in the freight carrying versions of the Liberator from that.

Glad to see you doing this conversion Dave, it's nice to see the lessor known versions of these great planes finally getting representation in the modeling world.

Me too! It was fun going inside the nose compartment (not sure I was supposed to, hmmm). Granted, that was almost 20 years ago and I was much smaller then and able to hide easier.

[airdave]

Diamond Lil is actually an LB30...in fact, if the info is correct, it is the original LB30 that was turned into the C-87 prototype.
But it has since been been remodified back into an LB30 (B24D).

.......................
Anyway, I have not found anything else on the AT-22.
So it seems there is no reason to assume that the outward appearance of the AT-22s is anything different from the C-87s that they were made from.
In other words, the modifications to the C-87 were all internal...Flight Engineer stations (six of them) and facilities for the Instructors and crew.

.........................
So...
I have a C-87 package ready to upload and list.
AND...I have an AT-22 kit ready as well!

Just got to get the files uploaded and the store listings done.

...........................
I've also got a third kit done that I will release shortly after.
Remember that BOAC plane I posted earlier?
I thought it would make a great candidate for another model.

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/BOACC-87.jpg

Well, seems this is not a C-87 Liberator Express!

Its actually one of many LB30 (B24A) Liberators that were produced as Transport aircraft
with similar modifications to the C-87.
(No guns, turrets, bomb bay...new nose and tail...modified for supply and equipment transport.)
Unlike the C-87, they don't have passenger seats or passenger windows,,
just some porthole style windows down each side.

...they also didn't have the large rear cargo doors like the C87.
(a smaller set of cargo hatches were built into the bomb bay area.)

Anyway, many of these LB30s were lend-lease to the RAF for supply and transport.
And the RAF hired commercial companies like BOAC to crew and operate the planes.

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/B24%20Liberator/AL529.jpg

A lot of these planes went back to the US, and then were repurchased by civilian companies
to continue their work after the war. Even though the war had ended, the work had only just begun.

Anyway...I will also be releasing this BOAC AL507 (LB30)

and I have one more C-87 in mind.
And I have to finish the "memorial" plane I promised to a private customer.

[Don Boose]

Dave - Interesting info on the BOAC LB-30. I look forward to seeing the kit. This has been a great historical project. Don

[airdave]

Thanks Don

I'm trying to retrace and find a link to a Book excerpt, but I can't seem to find it.
Its where I got some valuable info on the LB30 (C-87 style) transport.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41esvYzBGVL._SL500_SY344_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

Looks like a very good book, I will buy a copy when I can find it.
The book is "Liberators in the Royal Air Force" and it literally has info on every single Liberator
operated by the RAF and in Commonwealth service.
As an information source, the author(s) combed through thousands of Personnel/Crew Log books.

I already have the author's (James Oughton) 90 page book:
Notes, Corrections and Amendments to The Liberator in RAF and Commonwealth Service.
lol

...
[Quote I found, re: OL'927/Diamond Lil]
Liberator I AM927 was damaged in transit and was never delivered to the UK as were the other LB-30Bs.
It was returned to Consolidated for repair. During rebuild, an extra four feet was added to the nose of the aircraft.
[This was part of the conversion to C-87 Transport, as this plane was the C-87 prototype]
It was then operated as a company plane.
It was later used as a transport carrying USAAF insignia but still with its original RAF serial on the tail.
For a while after the war, this plane was flown by the Continental Can Company under the civilian registry N1503,
until it was acquired by the Confederate Air Force (now known as the Commemorative Air Force) to be operated as a flying museum.
It now flies with the civilian registry of N12905, painted as a B-24D carrying the name Diamond Lil

[Don Boose]

Good news: It's available from AbeBooks.

Bad news: $199.00 (US)

[MacSongLi]

This is great news Dave, I look forward to the BOAC LB-30.

Gary

[nikischutt]

Good news: It's available from AbeBooks.

Bad news: $199.00 (US)

Cheaper here: Liberator in RAF and Commonwealth Service (http://www.redpepperbooks.co.za/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=9780851303628)

Shipping charges from South Africa, I'm not sure on. Although I can assist in that regard.