Early Airman

[ringmaster]

Picture found at a garage sale Saturday.

[THE DC]

That's a big paper kit he's standing next to!:eek:

Cheers!


The DC

[bob martin]

Most all my flying has been experimental built aircraft, Auto Gyros, Hang Gliders, Home Builts. So I have a real affinity with these early flyers. Flying by the seat of your pants! Hanging out there with the wind in your face! Oh yeah, My kinda flying.:D

[Kugelfang]

I believe that is Wilbur Wright in France, 1908. Just a guess, though.

--jeff

[Sakrison]

That is definietely a Wright Flyer--possibly the 1908 model, and that certainly looks like Wilbur Wright's profile. See the attached pix. The photo might have been taken in France. That was the year they demonstrated the Flyer to the world.

What a find!
--David

[cdavenport]

It's actually Benjamin Foulois, America's first "licensed" pilot, trained by the Wrights. Foulois went on to become a general and an advocate for aviation.

[Sakrison]

Mystery solved.
Thank you, Charles.

[Leif Ohlsson]

Charles, that is really interesting information. I searched the web for photos of Wilbur in France, and sure enough I found several featuring a cap, and a leather coat. But not THAT cap (chequered) and not THAT leather jacket (collar lined with fabric). And the profile was just a bit too sharp to fit Wilbur. But, to be honest, I would have agreed with Wilbur and Europe 1908-09 if pressed.

So this is indeed interesting. Thank you!

Leif

PS. Searching for Benjamin Foulois instead I got these photos. Now I'm confused again... c.f. the garage sale photo one more time (last)

Foulois sources:
Maj Gen Benjamin D. Foulois (http://www.ascho.wpafb.af.mil/birthplace/FOULOIS.htm)
pro.corbis.com (http://pro.corbis.com/search/Enlargement.aspx?CID=isg&mediauid=%7B0B6BB7E7-7F4B-45BB-AA21-F624CA552806%7D)

[ringmaster]

That is definietely a Wright Flyer--possibly the 1908 model, and that certainly looks like Wilbur Wright's profile. See the attached pix. The photo might have been taken in France. That was the year they demonstrated the Flyer to the world.

What a find!
--DavidThat looks like the same Write model A. Photos taken in France seem to show a smaller vertical fuel tank and a very simple elevator control.

[Leif Ohlsson]

I'll try to summarize what can be said about what exact aircraft this is, and leave the person out of the picture, at least to begin with.

Cutting to the chase, I believe this is the so called Military Flyer, a modified Model A.

Reasons:

1. The aircraft has the "Orville system" of control, in contrast to the "Wilbur system". Evidence for this is the prominent control stick in the garage-sale photo. This is in fact the middle stick for wing-warping (backwards-forwards), with a small handle on top (blurred) which when wiggled controlled the rudder. The pilot's elevator control is further way in the photo and blurred, and the student/passenger's elevator control is in the left hand of the person in the photo.

2. The height of the lower wing suggests the higher Military Flyer version, in contrast to one of the five Dayton-built Flyer A shipped to Europe.

Evidence:

Image 1: Descriptive drawing (http://www.ssplprints.com/image.php?id=130174&idx=1&keywords=&filterCategoryId=776&fromsearch=true) of the Wilbur-Orville systems (Orville's on top). Read about it in Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wright_Model_A).

Image 2: The Military Flyer (http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet_media.asp?fsID=593) as preserved in a museum today. Note the height of the lower wing. The details of the middle control stick unfortunately are hidden, but it has the Orville system, as witnessed by the lever on top of the stick. Therefore it ought to have a similar disk as in the garage-sale photo.

Image 3-5: Wilbur Wright in France 1909 (http://www.first-to-fly.com/History/Wright%20Story/whirlwindtour.htm). The first photo is particularly instructive as regards lower wing height and similar posture of Wilbur as the person in the garage-sale photo (where the wing seems to be definitely higher from the ground). This difference is clearly seen also in the other photos (with Wright sister Kate). Note also the Wilbur system of controls, in distinction to the Orville system in the garage-sale photo.

I think these features point to the photo being of the Military Flyer. As to the flyer himself, I have very great difficulties departing from Wilbur. The posture, the coat, and the way of carrying the cap - and of course the profile - all seem to point towards Wilbur.

As to when and how, with the Military Flyer and all, I couldn't say.

Leif

PS. I added the garage-sale photo again, for ease of comparison. This time with a tentative title... ;)

[Kugelfang]

Did a little bit of poking around. At first I was fairly confident that the garage sale photo was of Wilbur taken at Pau in France. There's a common photograph of Wilbur and King Alfonso of Spain and it sure looks like the same coat as on our mystery pilot. And it could be the same hat. The photograph that Leif posted of Wilbur and Katherine was taken at the same time. However, there's a difference in the construction of the foot rest of the plane. In the garage sale aircraft the fore-and-aft supports extend a bit beyond the foot rest. On the Pau aircraft they do not. It appears that they do on the Military Flyer. As they also appear to do in the Foulois photo Charles linked to.

The other thing I did was see if I could find any pictures of Foulois. To be honest, I'm not sure I'd be able to tell Foulois from Wilbur Wright from the garage sale photo. Lastly, judging from the hem of the man's coat is as compared to the wing, I think the mystery pilot is shorter than Wilbur. Foulois was reportedly about 5'6'' and 130 lbs. I'd have to revise my opinion and say that this probably is Foulois with Signal Corp No. 1... which is, I believe, now in the National Museum of the United States Air Force and known as the 'Military Flyer'.

Now Charles will return and say, "Told you so. It's in this book here. Provenance, people, provenance."

Still, the detective work is fun!

--jeff

[cdavenport]

I won't say I told you so. But, I had some other photos of Foulois. But not from the extreme angle we are seeing in this thread. The giveaway for me was the absence of a moustache, the shape of the nose and angularity of the chin. Also, given the version of the Wright flyer in that photo, Foulois is almost a given.

Here's what I want to know. Is that photo an original or a copy of an original. YOu can check this by inspecting the back of the photo. YOu will be looking for a paper backing. If it is a plasticized paper, it is more likely a copy.

But, if it's original, zowee! I envy you. I have an original shot of Ju-88s in formation that I treasure.

[Leif Ohlsson]

I am now willing to accept that the photo may be of Benjamin Foulois. Waiting for a really good photograph of him in a cap and leather coat, the first of the attached photos (http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay/Wright_Bros/Military_Flyer/WR11G10.htm) below makes me believe that it could be so.

This is the best photo I have seen of him in a leather coat similar to the one in the photo. In most other photos of him together with the Wright Military Flyer he is in army uniform or other clothes. And always in a helmet, military cap, or bare-headed, never in a civilian cap. While Wilbur always used such a cap (albeit never chequered - which lends credibility to the Foulois ident).

Like Jeff says, it is a really close call. To illustrate this I have taken the garage sale photo and superimposed a 1909 photo of Wilbur Wright (http://www.first-to-fly.com/History%20Images/1906-1909/1909%20HF%20Wilbur%20Wright.jpg) in a cap (left) and the Benjamin Foulois photo (right).

For me it comes down to the shape of the ear and the type of hair-cut in front of the ear. And it is still a really close call.

Meanwhile, I am very grateful to Charles for an opportunity to "get to know" Benjamin Foulois. It was a rewarding acquaintance. As an example, I did not know that he was the army control officer aboard the epic flight from Fort Myer to Shuter's Hill together with Orville. His later life story, and the role he played in US aviation, is equally fascinating.

Thank you, Charles!

Leif

[ringmaster]

Here's what I want to know. Is that photo an original or a copy of an original. YOu can check this by inspecting the back of the photo. YOu will be looking for a paper backing. If it is a plasticized paper, it is more likely a copy.

It is a photo post card. A post card made made of photographic printing paper. So it could have been an individual private photo or a commercial post card. It is a photograph, not a printed reproduction. It was found in a family photo album, but the seller had no information about it.It could have been a family member. The card had been cut in half, this is the left side half. There is no writing or stamp on the back, and the paper seems to be generic Kodak postcard paper. It is pale and extremely faded, but when I scanned it and applied enhance the image jumped out.

[cdavenport]

Thanks goes to the Ringmaster for sharing this wonderfully unique historical object....just another reason I love this forum so much!

You need to frame the original alongside the Photoshopped copy. That is a great piece! In fact, how cool would it be to build the paper model of the Flyer and mount it in a box frame with your photo postcard?!

Once I finally get to my Halinski Ju-88, I plan on doing the same thing with my vintage Ju-88 photo.