Stealth Talon WIP

[ARMORMAN]

Here we go....I will be posting updates on my Talon here. :)

[The Orange]

Dang! That is looking great! Love the cockpit by the way. Did you vacuform it? Or use some other technique? [ I can't recall the name, but there was one where you make a wood mold....]

[Janx]

good to see the Talon again Armorman :)

[DANZ300ZX]

Your talon is movung right along ,great work !!

[ARMORMAN]

I actually forgot I had a thread I had neglected over in aviation, so I guess I'll be double posting over here.

I made the cockpit from plastic packaging. I made the cockpit tabs out, then filled the interior with apoxiesculpt (you could use fimo or super sculpey as well), once the material hardened, I soaked off the paper and filled and sanded any low spots. I then glued it to an empty gum container that was laying around.

I cut a piece of packaging and heated it over an open flame. Once it started to sag, I stretched it over the buck, let it cool, and then trimmed it up.

[ARMORMAN]

Hope these were worth the wait.

I wanted to get the prototype almost finished before I posted pics.

17" long (1/48 scale roughly).

FYI: both the tail-fins and the wings fold in and down. I was going to try to engineer retractable landing gear, but that's not going to happen this time.

I have to do some minor redesign on the landing gear and add some textures I missed.

I also have to make the instructions. As I said early on, THIS IS NOT FOR A BEGINNING MODELER!

[maxcarbon]

WOW!!! THAT'S PAPER??? I WANT IT!!! Definitely worth the wait!


rgds

[DANZ300ZX]

looks fantastic armorman!!!i knew you get it finished ,it was only a matter of time!!!!at was is worth the wait!

[Rhaven Blaack]

WOW!!! This looks AMAZING!!!
You did a GREAT job on it. I am impressed. The detail outstanding. I think that I will add this to my (very long) to do list.

[ThunderChild]

Yes, definitely worth the wait! Amazing model Armorman!

[modelnutz7]

Hi Bill, Absolutely Stunning model!! Thanks for all your hard work and perseverance on this.

Best Wishes

Tom

[Paperwarrior]

That is well worth the wait.
The detail is amazing...especially in the cockpit.
Please let us know when and where we can pick one up!

[Lex]

Epic! People are going to love this...

[Janx]

Definitly worth the wait Armor, she looks great :)

[Rhaven Blaack]

I saw the movie again last week. I really like the design of this fighter. You are doing a fantastic job on this model. Any news on the release date (BTW no pressure)?

[Cloud_Ratha]

I love the landing gear.
Excellent work!

[ARMORMAN]

Thanks! I need to get this done, but 2 jobs and family issues are yet again delaying my working on it.

[blaar]

Armorman, did you ever finish the beauty ?

[ARMORMAN]

The model itself is pretty much done with a few minor changes to the landing gear needed. I need to get the instructions done, which I will have some more time to dedicate to it in a week or so after the plant I work at shuts down permanently.

[blaar]

No problem, thank you for the update........will wait patiently since it will be worth it 100x

[gomidefilho]

Amazing Armorman!

I remenber this start of project in Zealot Fórum, is very happy see the Talon back...

[ARMORMAN]

Now working on the instructions and finishing up the parts layout.

Here's a blowup of the control panel:

[ThunderChild]

Lookin good! Nice crisp detail.

[ARMORMAN]

sample instruction page

[Wulf111]

Instructions look great i especially like the flat part overlay on the 3D completed assembly, probably one of the best instruction sheets i have seen in a long time.

[ARMORMAN]

Thanks! My view on instructions is that they are as important to the model as the model itself (especially if it's one that is going to be for sale and THIS complex in some areas of build). I try to make it as simple as possible.

I may post more instructions in the future for review to see if it is clear to everyone (well, as many as possible).

[Janx]

Very Impressive, as always, I love the amount of thought and attention to detail you put into both the model and the instructions.

[ARMORMAN]

Another page of instructions....

[spaceagent-9]

nice use of a clear plastic spoon for the cockpit lid!
jim

[ARMORMAN]

actually that's a shaped piece of plastic packaging heat formed over a buck I made.

[luke strawwalker]

VERY kewl... :cool:

How about a paper version of EDI??

Or maybe a paper version of Jessica Biel in a bikini?? :eek: LOL:)

Later! OL JR :)

[ARMORMAN]

Talon will probably be it for me. It's taken waaaaay too long to get this model to this point. I have some I want to finish and I'm currently working on making models off my own designs (starting with the lower one in the pic I designed 25 or so years ago).

I just finished the model today, and am trying to figure out how to unfold it in sketchup.

[ThunderChild]

Interesting little design. :D

[blaar]

Talon will probably be it for me. It's taken waaaaay too long to get this model to this point. I have some I want to finish and I'm currently working on making models off my own designs (starting with the lower one in the pic I designed 25 or so years ago).

I just finished the model today, and am trying to figure out how to unfold it in sketchup.

Why unfold in Sketchup ? Pepakura is waaay better IMO.

I do all my models in SU and export it to Pepakura. I have just about found out all the bugs and how to fix them when exporting to pepakura. If you want I can help you out. I consider myself a "mesh cleaning expert by now when using Sketchup ..... lol )

[spaceagent-9]

dude!
please tell us!!!
free sketch up doesnt support export ruby files!!!
jim

[Neptune]

Awesome work as usual. RE: directions... Yeah, I suppose I should think more like that. I probably need to expect less and provide more directions, Though even when I provided detailed, photographic directions some still had trouble building the models I produced.

Thanks! My view on instructions is that they are as important to the model as the model itself (especially if it's one that is going to be for sale and THIS complex in some areas of build). I try to make it as simple as possible.

I may post more instructions in the future for review to see if it is clear to everyone (well, as many as possible).

[ARMORMAN]

Update. Detailed Nose gear tub.

[ARMORMAN]

Just an FYI, I got myself sidetracked with a model I want to release before Christmas as a freebie (though donations will be graciously accepted ;) ) and a lot of my time is going towards trying to get a job. Sorry for no updates.

[ARMORMAN]

Tiny....tiny update aft gear tubs are done.

[Neptune]

A small update is better than no update.:)

Tiny....tiny update aft gear tubs are done.

[ARMORMAN]

Finally, another page of instructions is done....(if only I had not set such high standards for myself....oh well...)

[kjev]

Man, never be afraid to have high standards!

[ARMORMAN]

OK, Had to change the instructions a bit. I have a question:

Does the final pic on step 10 read clearly as to what I'm trying to get across?

Quiz question:

What am I telling you?

[Rhaven Blaack]

Everything looks good to me. I would have no problems following your instructions.

[kjev]

I think so.

[Paragon]

So it means from the side view, texture should be visible for the front part, but not the back "bucket"?

[ARMORMAN]

Um....no. I don't want to answer it yet, I do really want you're (as in all of you's guys) input.

[jaffro]

ummm... you skin the little grey box thingy, then you insert it between the two side bit thingies, then you need to make sure the bottom of the whole assembly sits level/flush or something?

[ARMORMAN]

We have a winner! Yes, the the seat base and the two side panels must be flush to fit right. Thanks for playing "What is the Designer Trying to Say?"

With your host, Biiiiilllllll Perrry!

[modelnutz7]

Hi Bill, Your instructions are ACE no problems here understanding them.
Can't wait till this fantastic model is available.

Best Wishes

Tom
Scotland UK

[SEBRET]

As always, love seeing progress in here. Will continue to watch with anticipation.

[nosports]

We have a winner! Yes, the the seat base and the two side panels must be flush to fit right. Thanks for playing "What is the Designer Trying to Say?"

With your host, Biiiiilllllll Perrry!


So.... why you don't glue first the seat together and then glue it with the two sideboxes to the bulkhead ? seems a little less labourous to me :rolleyes:

[ARMORMAN]

Tried it and felt that I would lose some of the LIDs (Lowest Intelligence Denominator) folk if it was done this way (Heck, I'll probably still lose them).

[Neptune]

Tried it and felt that I would lose some of the LIDs (Lowest Intelligence Denominator) folk if it was done this way (Heck, I'll probably still lose them).

AM, love your models can't wait to build a few. Totally get you on the LIDs scale. Thanks for that, The Rum and Coke went right through my nose on that one. Doh! LOL!

[ARMORMAN]

Another page put to bed....

[frederico]

crazy cool work man. hope the work will continue.

freddy

[ARMORMAN]

Been working on 5 other projects and trying to find a job...been busy...sorry for no updates...

[frederico]

its ok man, take all the time you need

[scyeige]

your instructions are really simple to understand...

[ARMORMAN]

Last post was a YEAR AGO?!?!! well, anyway, I'm still working on it (and I did have a Titan to complete....). Here's the latest page of instructions.

BTW, Scyeige, thanks for the compliment!

[kjev]

Awwwwww, CRAP! Now I gotta mop the drool off my keyboard!

Truly an awesome model!

[ARMORMAN]

OK...so I was wrong...I had to add another step....NOW page 8...

[ARMORMAN]

And now...pages 9 and 10...

[TRAN NGOC TRUNG]

Download ?

[thorst]

Looking forward to the next update! Great subject, and the instructions look very promising!

[ARMORMAN]

Tran,

I'm still making the instructions.

The model will be available for purchase through ecardmodels and me on ebay.

B

[TRAN NGOC TRUNG]

thanks you

[kjev]

definitely going to buy a copy!

[ARMORMAN]

OK, so you may be asking, "Why no updates?" Well, the reason is that I ran into a serious design flaw that I glossed over on the beta build, but ended up causing me to redesign the entire forward fuselage.

This will also render about half the instructions done up to this point null and void.....

One step forward 32 back....

[kjev]

WHat?!?!?! No pictures? (Just kidding, of course)

I understand how it is, and if you didn't swear enough to melt your monitor, you're a better man than I am.

I, for one, wish you the best, and if there is anything I can do to help, let me know.

Hang in there!

[thorst]

I feel with you. But it will be a good feeling when you finished the redesign to the point where you have been before discovering the error. Only try to avoid redesigning the same parts more than two times, like I used to do sometimes :-(

Keep on the great work!

Thorsten

[ARMORMAN]

Sorry for the delay, but here's an update with some pics. First, a reminder of the original prototype in all its glory....then a side view of the production drawings followed by a side view of the prototype and the new prototype fuselage.

What say ye?

[Revell-Fan]

What? The first nose was straight? Uh... I must admit, I didn't see that in the first place... Well, the new nose is MUCH better! :)

[elliott]

I'll have to agree - much better.

[ARMORMAN]

I just kept looking at the reference and saying to myself,"How did I miss that?!!?"

[ARMORMAN]

New Fuselage formers (from instructions).

[ARMORMAN]

Most complex and difficult design I've ever done. Not only is the fitting very precise, but the parts have to be bent to the right angle to fit correctly. This pic was the 6th rebuild since November and the 4th since January.

[dunarispace]

Those dashed lines should be removed but I'm looking forward to build this kit :)

[ARMORMAN]

Love to remove them but they need to stay in order to form the piece correctly...they probably will be lighter, but as I've found in the building, every fold and curve must be followed precisely, no matter how minor it seems.

[dunarispace]

So, if it's possible, in PDF file please resease them as a vector/layer graphic, that they could be removed.

[ARMORMAN]

More updates...cockpit and buck from scrap packaging.
The buck was made by gluing the cockpit glass pattern with the tabs out, painting a layer of white glue on the inside and once dry, filling it with Aves Apoxiesculpt (or you could use Sculpey or Fimo). Once the material had set, I soaked it in water to remove the paper and sanded it smooth.

Normally, I would have mounted the buck to a tall piece of plastic (like a Mentos tube)and then heated the piece over a candle and pull it over the buck. However, I had purchased a 1963 Mattel Vac-U-Former and wanted to try it out. When I cut the glass out, I left a tab in the front and back to help it stay in place (I will glue it down when the model is finished).

Also pictured it the port upper intake; placed but not glued down.

[ARMORMAN]

Forgot to post a pic of the cockpit and buck.

[Vermin_King]

Very nice, sir.

[ARMORMAN]

Upper intake assemblies done...

[ARMORMAN]

Slow progress....knitting together the aft intake/thruster assembly...

[sgoti]

I like your approach, she's coming along well.

[ARMORMAN]

Sooo...now I'm at an impasse, Adobe locked me out of Illustrator and Photoshop (I BOUGHT CS3, so it's not subscription based) and have spent the last two days trying to get it to work.

As all the parts files are in Illustrator.....

[g0rb]

Ouch, I feel your pain. As far as I can tell, Inkscape supports Adobe Illustrator files to a degree, so this might be a place to start.


But this is weird, how can Adobe lock you out of a paid-for product???

[ARMORMAN]

Because they think they can...

[g0rb]

I just had a quick look around, to see whether anybody else is having problems with CS3, and found this official-looking link:
https://helpx.adobe.com/creative-suite/kb/activation-fails-cs3-acrobat-8.html


Apparently even though CS3 is not a subscription service, it does use a certificate authentication step, for which it needs to talk to an Adobe server. If that server is not avialable (or, "is aging and had to be taken down", like a dog), you can't use your software.


The page also says you can "Receive a new serial number and installer", presumably this will work without a server. But you have to create an Adobe ID and request it...


Pressing thumbs you can use your files again.

[ARMORMAN]

In the middle of it… have reinstalled with a new ID twice to no avail.

[ARMORMAN]

Well, I found workaround for my CS3 fiasco (no thanks to Adobe) So I'm back to working on my model....

[ARMORMAN]

Seeing the end of a 15 year design project in sight....98% completed....just some directional thrusters and landing gear, then 80-120 hours of instruction manual art to do...

[rifleman]

wow nice job

[ARMORMAN]

OK, aside from an insane work schedule, I have to admit to having a 6 year old "I don't wanna!" moment of not wanting to cut and roll 28 2mm x 2mm cylinders for the directional thrusters (something that was NOT on the original production blueprints, but added later). Anyway 2 hrs of staring through magnifiers later (part of the time was raging at the landing gear wheels for being too wide upon completion)...I have 14 on....

[g0rb]

Oh man, I can agree. Rolling cylinders is the pits. You are halfway through, the second half is always easier, no?
On the flip side, the model is looking great!

[ARMORMAN]

Sorry, I forgot the update....

[ARMORMAN]

OK, it seems I've been getting complaints from certain individuals that the plane is "un-buildable" and inaccurate. I find this amusing and annoying as I have not released the model yet and I have shown pictures of a built prototype (3, actually, over the duration of the threads it was posted in) proving that it is otherwise (though the first two had major fuselage inaccuracies that were fixed in the latest build).

When I create my instructions, I try to consider the lowest intelligence denominator when creating them (something I was trained to do as a technical illustrator). To that end, I am extending this to the model (something I had tried to do already) and am currently re-designing the fuselage to aid those arm chair quarterback designers who play in the shallow end of the intellectual pool and would probably never buy it anyway.

Even with this re-design, it will not be a model a beginner will be able to do straight out of the gates.

Sad, really, so close to the finish line.

edit: (evidently, a bot attached an ad to "finish line" don't click on it.)

[FoamyDM]

Did this ever make it to a final version? You have amazing work so far

[ARMORMAN]

My life has been topsy turvy especially since c-19 which made my day job busier (usually 12-14 hour workdays) and less time.

The fuselage has been redesigned, but I need to do a new test build on it. If it works, then it's on to the final build and instructions.