Is it cheating to use plastic parts?

[philo426]

I am currently building a Handley Page Hampden and wish to use the landing gear,wheels ,props and spinners from the old Bristol Beaufighter by Revell.How do guys feel about using parts from plastic kits?

[southwestforests]

Ask 23 modelers and get 27 answers :D
If it suited my mood and my purposes I'd do it.
Then again, I've for several decades used multiple materials in model railroad and science fiction and miniatures games modeling.

[Texman]

I try to remain as purist as possible, but I will use whatever material suits the need at hand.

If you choose to use multi media materials, go for it. It is your build, your model, and your fun!

[MacSongLi]

I'm with Ray on this one. It's your model, use what works best for you.

Gary

[whulsey]

Does it get me close to the results I'm seeing in my head, go for it.

[Dabeer]

If you were entering the model into a paper modeling contest, I'd say it's cheating. But if not, then you're building it for you, not for anyone else. Do whatever makes you happiest with the results.

[Kevin WS]

Don't worry about it. Use whatever you feel happy with!

And if it saves you time as well, great!

[AndreyZarkov]

If you're building the model for the end result, use it. If you're building it for the pleasure of the assembling process itself, then don't use it. Whatever feels right in your own mind.

[elliott]

As has been said, it's your model. If you want to make it a multi-media model go ahead. No one's going to stop you. If you post it here I do think it would be right to say it's multi-media and where it's used but that's only my opinion. No hard and fast rules about that here. Do what makes you happy!

[Damraska]

The answer is completely subjective. You should do what is right for you. :)

I switch hit and occasionally use card modeling techniques on plastic models. For example, here is a Sherman based tank destroyer built out of sheet plastic in the manner of a card model.

And here is a card model midget submarine airbrushed and weathered like a plastic model.

[southwestforests]

here is a Sherman based tank destroyer built out of sheet plastic in the manner of a card model.Interesting thing. I haven't a clue what its name really would be, but for some reason "Shetzer" comes to mind as a candidate.

[SJPONeill]

It's your model: you build it however you like...while some artists get great results from a purely purist paper philosophy, I think that most modellers get the the best results with a combination multi-media approach...I often use expanding foam and foam board to reinforce the internal structure of a paper model...

[philo426]

Thanks I will use the parts.I just do not think the paper props and wheels would work very well.

[Miles Linnabery]

Dear Philo:
As in any hobby there are the purest ones and then there are the rest of the unwashed masses. Having said that there are some threads on making paper wheels that can't be told from the real thing, then also look for Lief O's Props use the search function.
Model on,
Miles

[AndreyZarkov]

Thanks I will use the parts.I just do not think the paper props and wheels would work very well.

Paper wheels can be made to look amazing.
Here's a small example of paper wheels.
(Special thanks to Igor Shatohin for providing the pictures.)

http://cadbest.com/store/images/products/1/image01.jpg

http://cadbest.com/store/images/products/1/image13.jpg

[imcold]

If you're not entering a paper model competition*, then the goal is to have the (finished) model, not to have it built only from paper, right?
It's fair to mention the non-paper parts when you're presenting it on a forum though - if they're not obvious; mainly to prevent confusion and misunderstandings.

* iirc here in competitions you get reduced points for non-paper model parts

[philo426]

Well this is my first paper model so I do not know all of the aspects yet.I still have a lot to learn!

[southwestforests]

That's okay! I've been building models since the late 1960s - and haven't yet run out of things to learn :)

[Wyvern]

I echo my pard Texman- it's your model; if re-purposing the plastic parts make the model come out the way you want, then do it.

Wyvern

[Wyvern]

The answer is completely subjective. You should do what is right for you. :)

I switch hit and occasionally use card modeling techniques on plastic models. For example, here is a Sherman based tank destroyer built out of sheet plastic in the manner of a card model.

And here is a card model midget submarine airbrushed and weathered like a plastic model.

These are both really great models.

Wyvern

[airdave]

Is it cheating to use plastic parts?yup. its cheating.

but then again...since building a plastic kit is much simpler than a card model,
I guess its more of a "giving up" kind of thing.

are you someone who "gives up"?
or are you a real paper modeler?

[Robert Woolley]

For me it depends on whether I am making the model for the destination or the journey. If I am after the end result I would use whatever is best for the part. In most cases plastic is going to look more realistic than paper, no mater how well the paper part is made, but only if you can paint well. I feel the need to add non paper parts to higher quality paper models because the bits that are hard to do in paper stand out too much.
But if I am in it for the journey, I like to use just paper, to see how close I can come to the prototype. A case in point would be Fiddlers Green models. I think in most cases they look best completely made from the printed parts, even though they are often not terribly realistic.

Robert

[Mark Hansen]

Sometimes you have no choice but to use non paper parts. An example: Any closed cockpit aircraft needs a plastic canopy for a realistic appearance.

[philo426]

I am not sure,undecided if paper models are for me.

[bloomohio]

yes go for it as most paper model companies in poland add non-paper parts like clear canopies/vac-form,etc.

[airdave]

I am not sure,undecided if paper models are for me.

How many plastic kits have you built?
You had to build that many before you started thinking about paper.

I say you must build at least the same amount of paper kits
before you can truly decide if you want to switch back!

Its a rule.

And, if it helps, I will let you use a little bit of plastic.

[philo426]

Hundreds sir!I guess I should not judge all paper kits by the dog I am building now!

[airdave]

Thanks I will use the parts.I just do not think the paper props and wheels would work very well.

Yeah, not much point in showing you massive photos of a modern jet (no props)
built from an advanced kit by an advanced paper modeler.
lol
With wheels that are hard to see...made from laminating, sanding, puttying and painting.
That doesn't help a beginner much.

You have a good point Philo
...paper wheels (and propellors) often don't look perfect.
They can require special experience to be made to look less like paper.

Don't be put off by this...its just another area that you can work on improving.
I like to use only what is in the paper kit...and its a challenge to make certain details look better.

For the average and beginner builder, there are many kits designed for the less experienced,
with wheels and props designed to be simpler to build.
And sometimes, they can still look pretty good.
Especially if the designer puts some effort into realistic textures and artwork.
CAD designed kits are wonderfully precise...but can be lifeless without a good paintjob.

I think this is a better example of prop and wheels done in paper.
Considering its only a beginner/intermediate skill level kit.

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/prop%20%20wheels.jpg

[philo426]

Well the props and wheels on that stang are fantastic!

[airdave]

Don't worry about the build quality yet.
The trick is to learn some paper skills.
Creasing, Scoring, Cutting, Folding, Gluing.
Find the Tools and Glue you like.

Try some of the free kits available here, in the Download section.
You could also try Fiddlers Green....free kits.

Just get some practice in.

When you are ready...if you feel like it...let me know.
I can give you a free Mustang kit to try.

[philo426]

Thanks.After this one is done I will go back to my plastic kits for a while.To make a kit that makes me feel like a bumbling fool is most disconcerting.

[enrico63]

Hello,
I always made a plastic model but, since I discovered the papermodel, I have something extra in the scratchbuild of models!!
At the beginning I sought to use only paper.....Now I use paper to 99%.
I use metal wires to produce pipes or cables or, for example, small nets to reproduce grids.
The paper is a great material for modeling;):)

[airdave]

Unfortunately you made the worst kit choice for your first paper model.
The Hampden is a model for more experienced builders.

Maly Modelarz kits are mostly older handdrawn style,
and are not known to be very exact models.
Even experienced paper modellers will have a challenge on their hands with that kit.

If you are learning paper modelling, you are doomed to frustration with a model like that.

Best advice I have is, choose a simpler, less advanced model.
Find something that has a detailed build thread already here on the forums.
Try to follow along and build the kit using the build thread.
Approach it completely as a tutorial, learning experience.
If it turns out well, you'll be even more pleased with the adventure.
Don't be alarmed by any frustration or failure.
Every paper model has at least one area that is tricky or difficult to deal with.

[philo426]

Yeah I am a good modelr I will show you guys a pic of pat of my collection .

[cgutzmer]

Wing roots - damn they suck.... I HATE them! But yeah philo, make a couple of Romans (der kampfliegger) they are high quality kits that arent too complex. Learning the basics is important - oh, and color the edges :) If it makes you feel better - I put together my first kit with a stapler. I graduated to scotch tape on my second kit.... then I found my friends here and it got a whole lot better.

Heck make a scale cube or three, freebies all over the place!
Hope to see you around!
Chris

edit - to use plastic or not in your kits is an age old question. My personal viewpoint is that its your model and your enjoyment. Do it how YOU like. No one will fault you for it. I use string (rigging), paper clips (strengthen struts and for hinges) occasionally a dowel for something long and straight to make it more rigid. Of course canopies in either vac formed plastic or just a thin plastic cellophane. Just have a good time and enjoy what you are doing! :)

[nebeltex]

Thanks.After this one is done I will go back to my plastic kits for a while.To make a kit that makes me feel like a bumbling fool is most disconcerting.

We were all bumbling fools at one time or another, especially when we started at one hobby or an interest. Paper models may not be for everyone, yet I believe any expert modeler can achieve great results, no matter the medium(s), no matter the scale. The more difficult the challenge (for build or design), the greater the personal rewards of success when you are satisfied, and your peers say "well done".

Just sayin'

[philo426]

Well I have learned a lot and what do to not to repeat the mistakes I made on the Hampden.

[Formerly Styrene]

There are pros & cons

I once modified a styrene 1/700 Skywave Fletcher class destroyer into the late war version my father in-law served on. I cut some pretty good sized holes in the deck and filled them with sprue melted with airplane glue and laquer thinner while adding the late war quad 40s.

It did work out nicely, but the point is that now with a cardstock model, especially one in digital format, I would probably solve the same problem in GIMP or Photoshop.

So it all depends on how you want to solve the problems and btw those tire and propeller tutorials mentioned above are definitely worth a peek.

Cheers

Formerly Styrene

aka David

[beckychestney]

Paper, plastic, wood, steel, uranium, whatever it takes to get the job done is right for me. Rule #1 is have fun not ulcers. :)

Oh, and the uranium? Yes, I have used it

In it's decayed form.

That's lead by the way. :)

[Jim Nunn]

It's a hobby! build it to your skill level and if props, spinners and wheels and are not in your skill level use whatever makes you happy with the result. I have competed in many model contests and have taken Gold's, firsts, seconds and thirds in the plastics categories. These models are not 100% paper some parts cannot be made with paper, so I use wire, wood, and occasionally plastic. My goal is to make the most convincing model possible. Example (http://www.papermodelers.com/forum/kit-reviews/15214-post-build-review-drafmodel-lefh-18-40-a.html)

Just have fun and learn from each build. At some point you will make wheels, props and spinners out of paper.

Jim Nunn

[N96HBK]

To me it doesn't really matter. It depends on what you want. ;)

[philo426]

Most impressive anti tank gun!

[douglasmarrel]

Blasphemy! p*****c is not a word to be used here! Next you will be using wire, string, wood dowels, aluminum foil and such to detail your models! Oh the rivets that need to be counted!

[OgdenBob]

No one seems to have a problem with clear canopies, which are plastic, oops, did I actually type that word? Anyway, it's your model, build it to suit you.

Bob

[pockets]

Don't see a problem with using whatever floats your boat...errrr...flies your plane.

[ringmaster]

Fiddlers Green instructions often encouraged builders to use aftermarket wheels.

[Richschindler]

Now a days there's such a supply of add on parts such as, vac u formed canopies, molded wheels and even brass parts so do whatever you want. Make it yours.
But remember, as stated before. If it's something you plan on entering into a strictly paper model contest, then it may be disqualified for the added non-paper items.
Otherwise, just enjoy!! Have fun.

[spaceagent-9]

I completely support the paper only enthusiast or paper purists, however, that isn't what I like to do. but I admire them for what they do, almost as if they were thousands of year old Japanese traditionalist art form preservers or something.

[Sakrison]

Only if you refuse to release your tax returns. . .

It's a hobby, not a religion. We embrace purists, heretics, and everything in between.
You can use p*****c parts, just don't mention the word p*****c. It upsets some of us.:rolleyes:

[at6]

Plastic!Plastic!Plastic!:):):):):):):)Ha ha.

[whulsey]

"purists, heretics, and everything in between" sounds like a John Kay song:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEa6CDwIa10

Don't think that worked right but copy and paste. Good song.

[KCStephens]

Fiddlers Green instructions often encouraged builders to use aftermarket wheels.

Yup and some even suggest using Cheerio's

[rmks2000]

I used a Lifesaver candy for a lifesaver on the rescue winch I added to the Fiddlers Green R4 helicopter.

[milenio3]

And I use my daughter's hair for my WWII airplanes' antennas!

I was thinking on using my son's teeth as details... but then again, no pl****c!!

Oh wait... do the coffee stirrers count as pl****c? Damn coffee vice!

[a380]

i am a an equal opportunity model maker. paper, plastic, metal, wood, fabric it's all raw material to me.

[herky]

just to put in my 10 cents,.while my modelling skills are by no means perfect i do not use any extra parts when i build.the ONLY exception is when i strenghen things such as masts,undercarriage struts and prop blades inside using toothpick.for me personally the WOW factor when i show my models to friends is the fact which they struggle to believe that the whole ship,aircraft or whatever started life as a book or sheets of paper.this is just my way of doing it and to each their own,.i love the look of awe i get when i show a model after showing flat sheets of paper then explaining that everything they see started out life as a piece of paper.

[douglasmarrel]

You are not a real modeller unless you hand blow your own actual glass canopies and windows. :) Hah!

[douglasmarrel]

Or making them out of mica slides if you are a cheater :)

[wireandpaper]

Use wire and paper!!!

[JohnMGD]

Well...I tried and tried to make everything from paper, except rigging, of course, but never succeeded in make a proper hull (I am building ships). So I decided to make the frames, and first layer of hull plating from MDF (frames) and balsa (hull plating). The rest I build from card board and paper, second layer of hull plating (Showing the plating as on the real ship) and super structures and deck. So the basis of my model is "not" paper, just to give it a good start and a perfect finish for the card board. Also, with this method I prevent warping of my models, they are nice straight and sturdy.

John.

[elliott]

As has been said wood is just pre-paper and thus is allowable. ;) You tried and learned from your efforts; that is the main thing. Do you have pictures of the hull? I, for one, would like to see how it turned out.

[philo426]

Yes support structure of wood or plsstic is nrcessary .

[JohnMGD]

Sure, ASHIGARA was the first try with MDF frames and balsa under hull plating, also KONGO is made this way and my present build AZUMA. See:

http://www.papermodelers.com/forum/ships-watercraft/3424-hijms-ashigara.html?highlight=Ashigara

http://www.papermodelers.com/forum/ships-watercraft/30646-builders-model-hijms-kongo.html?highlight=kongo

http://www.papermodelers.com/forum/ships-watercraft/36615-hijms-azuma.html

John.

[willygoat]

Do what you need to do. I built the F-105 from Oddball Productions and used a bunch of plastic 1:48 scale bombs because I couldn't get the paper parts to look anything like a bomb at that small of a scale. I used the paper fuel tanks, but plastic bombs and racks. It even earned 2nd place in a contest!

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k173/BDR7/IMG_0050_zpsx3sttyb8.jpg (http://s88.photobucket.com/user/BDR7/media/IMG_0050_zpsx3sttyb8.jpg.html)
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k173/BDR7/IMG_0103_zpsljhkelhu.jpg (http://s88.photobucket.com/user/BDR7/media/IMG_0103_zpsljhkelhu.jpg.html)

[philo426]

Is a Thud is it not?

[ringmaster]

Chip said to do it.

[thepaperguy]

I used the Vinyl tires from a plastic kit on this 1/25ish build I did. I also used the roof mounted antenna as well. the tires I used because the paper ones just looked outa place. the Hubs and everything else are all paper though. the Antenna I used because it never had one in the original kit.

[herky]

while it is amazing how this models look with added parts to me the pride i get in when i show a model and people are amazed its all made from paper.

[Teamski]

Very belated, but I have yet to see a really good paper mast and guidelines!

-Ski

[Wad Cutter]

If my personal Coach says it's ok, then it's ok. wc

[philo426]

I do not regret using the parts from the Revell Beaufighter for my Hamden.Really looks good.

[Padraig]

I'm glad to see this thread, because I was just going to ask if this (attached) was a cheat ;)

Don't know how those struts on a paper Bipe can stand up using only paper!

[philo426]

Yes do not hesitate to use wood iststructuraapapplications

[Philip]

Do whatever presses your button!

[jaffro]

I'm going to jump on the "whatever floats your boat" bandwagon on this one. I am a modeler, I'm in it for the end result, however I get there. I got into paper modeling as a way to build models without having to pay the ridiculous costs of some of the plastic kits out there and fell in love with so many aspects of this medium.

I love the versatility of paper, the way it can be used to add detail, scratch build extra parts, re-do parts you got wrong but there's a learning curve, as there also is in plastic. Don't ever be afraid to try new things, new techniques, but also don't be afraid to mix your materials for the sake of the end result. I have the utmost respect for people who can do everything in paper, but there is no need to restrict yourself to a single modeling media, simply because a select few purists say you have to.

Using other media to complete your models isn't "cheating", however, as has already been mentioned, you need to be upfront and honest about your usage of extra materials if entering your model in a competition or posting on a forum such as this one, etc.

[Gil]

Even pirate sites are promoting plastic parts to get sales up. Why they've even stooped to promoting laser cut paper for better fits for your pirated model. What's worse is they've started selling Excel razor blades too! The nerve of such behavior goes way beyond what the average paper modeler can countenance. I say ban them all! Did you hear what I said? Ban them all!...,

Our next installment will focus on a most excellent 3D paper printer just announced by SpitBalls Inc. This cleverly contrived machine takes in raw waste paper shredding it into micro-fibers before forming them into micro spitballs that are then built up layer upon layer to form unbelievable 3D models. Be sure not to miss this episode it will change your entire life when you realize that making spitballs in school was great practice at your future as a 3D micro-spitball machine operator...,

Any sacrificial sarcasm detected in this post is due mainly to my personal fictions not being universally shared...,

-Gil

[gotham]

If paper model companies produce lazer cut parts (tank tracks etc), then it must be OK to use pieces from a pstic model kit.

[airdave]

Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria!

[Texman]

Very belated, but I have yet to see a really good paper mast and guidelines!

-Ski

I refer you here. http://www.papermodelers.com/forum/ships-watercraft/21855-1-300-santa-maria-acabado-finished.html?highlight=santa+maria

I, and some others, consider this "good". And there are
awards to confirm it.

Paper models can do well in any area.

[ringmaster]

Chip said to do it.

[jaffro]

If paper model companies produce lazer cut parts (tank tracks etc), then it must be OK to use pieces from a pstic model kit.

The laser cut parts are made from paper and/or cardoard. I would rather use laser cut paper than pre-formed plastic any day.

When I first started building with paper and card I considered using plastic parts for added detail but after plenty of practice and tips I learnt from some highly skilled modelers on this forum and others I'll always try to do it with paper first. Although I have to admit I'm a huge fan of using wooden dowel and skewers etc instead of hand rolling tiny tubes, that's onearea where I'm just not skilled, nor do I care to be.

[Texman]

So, I was in a hurry with my last post and did not read it well. I see now that Teamski
was most likely referring to the mast and lines being made of paper.

I will go back to my coffee now and be silent.....

[philo426]

No need to re invent the wheel.I am pragmatic ,will use any material that fits the application.

[Doug J]

I guess the old saying "let your conscience be your guide" applies here............if it helps any I do that quite a bit because my skills are not that good.

[Wyvern]

It’s your model, Philo. Build it your way to get the result you want.

Wyvern

[philo426]

My philosophy exactly!I reserve the right to try to construct certain components out if paper to see if the results are viable.

[Marco]

It's like fusion cooking I guess. Use whatever technique/material necessary for the best result.