White hart inn revisited

[missileer]

With the blessings of VK, I am going to be building his White Hart Inn and coaches. Only this time around, I will be making all those wonderful details that he provided in his designs take on a little more life. I am starting with the coaches to build my confidence and try out ideas. I will only post the ones that work!:) I will be making enough mistakes to keep you laughing anyway.:rolleyes: Anyway, the plan is to only use the details provided in his designs; nothing added from outside sources.

I started with the wheels. Looking at the picture that VK provided of the museum coach, I decided that I needed to fatten the wheels and add a bit more 3D. (I will not be adding rivets and bolt heads.:)) As I have mentioned in my other builds, I used scissors for 99 per cent of my cutting. I have found a new use for the Japanese Hole Cutter; making pilot holes for my scissors points for small details. It really speeded up cutting out the wheel spokes and ended forever, poking holes in fingertips. So my arbitrary width of wheel became 8 stacked wheels with an additional rim on each side and two hubs stacked on the outward facing side of the wheel. (Pictorial diagram below) It started out being fun, but by the time I cut out the 40th wheel, I had finger cramps.:eek:By the way, I forgot to add that this model is the Tudor Coach printed on 65# paper. I have 3 of the wheels assembled and the 4th in process. One of the things to remember is to glue the back to back wheels first. That way, you won't accidentally wind up with a white sided wheel. (Wait; you're all thinking that I did that!)

[Vermin_King]

A nice start. I can't imagine cutting out the spokes with scissors. Your scissors skills are much better than mine

[missileer]

VK, thanks.

Here is where it gets interesting. The attached photo shows my approach to detailing the coach box. The coach box on the left is the basic structure that I will be using. Only the windows are removed in this one, to accommodate the recessed windows included by VK in the kit (small rectangles in the middle). The coach box on the left is the detail supply depot. Some of the cut-outs are finished and all the spots with punch marks were cut out also. .Once the cut-outs were complete, the various pieces were separated (roof/front & back/lower ends).

[missileer]

I forgot to mention, in the last post, that the horses were assembled months ago. I cut out the horses and then traced the outline of one horse onto 4MM foam board, cut out the blank horses and wrapped the 2D horses around the foam board. Nothing fancy, but the foam was easier to work with than 4MM cardboard. (I did use a knife for foam board):)

I assembled the standard coach box, with recessed windows, and then glued the cut-outs onto the structure. Photos attached show the result. It ain't beautiful, but it did turn out better than I expected.

[SCEtoAUX]

Actually not bad, not bad at all.:)

[Vermin_King]

Looking good, sir

[missileer]

Thank you Doug and VK!

I have the carriage bed assembled (with only the front axle, at the moment) and that turning front axle is a marvel. I missed the instructions on how to assemble it, but after studying it for about 20 minutes, I discovered the tick mark, which is the key to the whole thing. VK, you aught to patent that.

John

[Vermin_King]

Actually, that is someone else's creation. From the Sweet Robo model that's out there. I use the concept a lot

Paper Poseables: Sweet Robo (http://www.paperposeables.com/2011/09/sweet-robo.html)

[missileer]

Finished the drivers perch and the wagon tongue. Lousy photo, but will have to do for now. Be offline for 4 days while I take 3 Granddaughters to Williamsburg, VA. I will discuss my building errors when I return.

[missileer]

Have the drivers seat installed along with the axles and two right side wheels. There was a lot of white inside the wheel spokes that needed attention. I dug out my old flat paints for plastic aircraft and was rewarded with the exact match for the coach wheels. With that kind of luck, I should be in some casino. I hope to finish the coach tonight. I have already started cutting out the Fodor blue and gray coach. It should turn out a lot better than this one. I have learned a lot of what not to do on this first one. So here are the photos.

[missileer]

First coach finished. Now I need to find a driver and add reins. Second coach under assembly.

[Vermin_King]

You don't happen to have Greywolf's Medieval Carriage, do you? it has a Driver, Assistant and Dog.

Nicely done

[missileer]

VK,

I do not have that one. Is it still available somewhere?

John

[missileer]

And I forgot to say "Thank you".:) I will do better on the next coach. The cutouts, so far, are cleaner and straighter. I am starting to regain my techniques.

[Vermin_King]

It used to be a free model at http://greywolf.critter.net/paper.htm, but it is a pay-for model now. Sorry

[C9B]

Enjoying this thread.

[missileer]

CB9, thanks.

VK, Do you have a link for the "for sale" carriage? I checked the link that you included and found the haunted stage coach (which I did download), but I did not notice and links that would lead me to the carriage that you mentioned.

John

[missileer]

Updates: As you can see in the photo, I have added a driver from One Monk Miniatures. I think I may have reduced it a bit too much. I also want to thicken the driver to add more 3D effect. I want to use the cargo you see in the photo, but that is going to have to be reduced by half, so that will be another day's project. In the meantime, I have started applying my 3D efforts to the buildings. The first attempt will be the Dormers, since they are the easiest to work with. The windows will be glued to the inside front wall of the Dormer; then the Dormer will be assembled. The woodwork will then be glued in place on the outside walls (with a fervent hope that it looks as good as my mental picture). I am going to try to finish the Dormers today and get some more assembly done on the Fodor coach.

[missileer]

Here is the finished Dormer. With the naked eye, it looks much better. With this enlarged photo, you can see all my mistakes.:eek:

[Vermin_King]

Very nice.

The carriage sampler is no longer available, but the carriage is available in a larger set, Savage Worlds Gothic Figure Flats - Pinnacle Entertainment | Savage Worlds | RPGNow.com (http://www.rpgnow.com/product/60079/Savage-Worlds-Gothic-Figure-Flats?cPath=117_173)

[wideride]

Cool Build, John. I'm jealous. All I get in my free time right now is a paint brush and a bucket of porch paint.
George

[missileer]

VK, thanks. I bought the set. It has some other things that I can use later on for future dios.

George, thank you also. I hope you can get back to the really important national and international things (i.e. Model Design and Build) when the nor'easters start blowing.

John

[SCEtoAUX]

Turning out very nice. Good job on the horses and driver so far.:)

As an aside patricia m has an old french print of a coach at a way station posted on her Flickr site. It is one of those semi-3D cut outs.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/30533017@N00/sets/72157601156433867/page13

About in the middle of the page titled Les Transport D'Autrefois.

[missileer]

Doug,

Thank you!

This is going to be a much longer project than I had anticipated, but that is Murphy's Law. I had hoped to finish this and my Tri Sigma project by November. It may not happen, since I keep adding ideas.

So, here is where I am to date (see photos). I have the 1st Tudor coach finished with the exception of the steps, cargo, reins and driver. The four Dormers are finished and I have all the parts cut for one wall of the Guild Hall end of the structure. In addition, I have the Fodor basic coach body assembled and the trim parts cut out. I added a former in the center of the coach, so that I could apply more pressure while gluing and forming the curve of the roof. I also have all the parts cut out for one of the rear wheels.

At this point, the double door on the wall will be recessed by 2 layers (see spacers in center of second photo). I have not decided whether to partially open one door. If I do, l'll have to thicken them to at least 2MM. In that case, I will probably not recess the doors, but thicken the door frame to match the door. I will have to make a decision on that soon.

[Vermin_King]

This is how I'd wanted to do this from the git-go, but I was in a time crunch on submitting it for the Medieval Mayhem Hoard, so I did the test-build without the extra detail. It's a large enough piece that I didn't need a second one.

The Guildhall ended up being my favorite part of the three buildings. I still want to go back and do a Rathaus version of it ... sometime

[missileer]

VK,

Any suggestions on how you would like something portrayed, please let me know. If my skills are up to the task, I will incorporate it. I have a plan for the bay windows, except for the tops. Were the sloped tops leaded glass or wood with roofing material?

John

[Vermin_King]

On the images I grabbed them from, it looked more like a thin sheet of metal over the windows that didn't protrude much from the building. Also looked like it had been painted over multiple times with black paint that had faded.

[missileer]

Thanks, I can do that. That would also indicate that the side glasses were only about half the width of the front glass panels.

[Vermin_King]

Thanks, I can do that. That would also indicate that the side glasses were only about half the width of the front glass panels.


If that. It may have only been about a third

[missileer]

Even better!:)

[missileer]

I have been spending my time on how to recess the large double doors on the Guild Hall. In keeping with my original plan of only using the details available on the model, I decided to modify the open Archway recess details. Using the photo as a visual explanation guide, I printed out a copy of the Archway parts shown in the photo as A: 1 & 2.; I cut out all of A2 and the straight long portion of A1; adding a tab along the bottom of the part (See B). I then cut out a piece of A1 containing 2 of the curve links to use as a blind connecting tab and cut the end tab off the end tab off the curving end of A2.

I then glued the straight piece of A1 to the curving end of A2 using the blind tab (See C). My final modification was to cut C in half, lengthwise and glue one half on top of the other (See D).

Using the copy function on my printer, I made a sheet of the modified Archway recessing parts, which I will use to recess all the double doors in the Guild Hall. I hope to get at least one wall finished tomorrow to test the effect.

[missileer]

The first wall is finished. The modified strip worked. The photos show the steps taken to make the finished product. I use the stone floor of the Archway Interior to make the entry way floor. In this assembly, I glued the floor strip to the top of the bottom tab of the wall. I think the assembly might be easier, if the stone floor strip is glued to the bottom of the archway first (completing the archway and making a more rigid sub-assembly for gluing to the edges of the archway opening in the wall). I glued the upper story lattice work to the wall before gluing the door assembly.

[missileer]

Here is a closeup of the doorway.

[wideride]

John,
I like what you've done with VK's model. Another great build in the works!
George

[missileer]

Thanks, George.

I love details and VK's model is LOADED with it. I'll have to show you pictures, sometime, of the last Christmas Village that I set up using Dept 56 buildings and HO trains. It ended up being 26 feet by 19 feet containing about 130 buildings, almost 200 cars/trucks , countless street lights/fire plugs/stop lights/Christmas decorations/boats/docks/and other details. Two and a half years in the building. (Oh, I forgot the 8 trains and a trolly and a mountain with a ski lift):)

John

[Vermin_King]

Well, if you set it up this year, you can send us this year's photos. Sounds nice

[missileer]

Unfortunately, I will not be able to do that. I left it up for 5 years and two summers ago, my Granddaughter and I took it apart and packed it away. It took almost 4 weeks, working every day about 8 hours to dismantle it. Even with the photos to guide me, without a lot of extra help, it would take me several months to set it up. If I started tomorrow, and worked every day for 8 hours, I probably would not have it assembled until about April or May of next year. The wiring was a nightmare! If I had been inspected by the Fire Dept, they probably would have shut me down, simply because they would not have been able to trace circuits. I put it together using an ammeter and a volt meter. When a circuit reached 13 amps, I closed that one out and started on a new circuit. Never had an overload. Later on towards Christmas, I'll start a new thread in "Other Things We Do" and try to let everyone know that I posted the pictures. In the meantime, I gotta finish this baby. (only 240 more spoked wheels to cut out; plus, of course, the building):)

John

[missileer]

My reasoning on the door depth was probably over-thinking. I was thinking that since this is the Guild Hall, the stone masons would want to show off their skill and build thick stout wall. The placement of the doors was based on security. I assumed that normal security of doors at this time in history is still based on the drop bar or draw bar against the interior side of the door. Following this reasoning, I also assumed the door would be massive, with the interior side matching up with the interior wall (for the drop bars). Looking at the thickness of the wall of the archway, I arbitrarily came up with my recess depth. :) A bit round the pond, so to speak.

I have made a little progress. I have all the trim on the Fodor coach body and drivers seat; I have one wheel assembled; I have the second story facade cut out for the front wall; and I have the hinges and window under trim installed on the small window of the front wall. Finally, I am assembling the recess frame around the entry door. Note that I have installed the hinges and the door pull handle. That's the second handle! The first handle I dropped while painting it (never found it), so I made a new one. Then I realized that I had started gluing the door upside down and had to pull that apart. At this point I stopped and poured myself a Tullamore Dew and watched the news. Then I realized that what I was watching was not helping my frame of mind, so I turned it and went back to model building. Now I hope you are all as confused as I am. :confused:

[wideride]

John,
It looks great. I'm not too confused, beyond normal, but, can I say that I am and join you in a toast?
George

[missileer]

To Your Health, Wealth and Welfare! Clink! Drink! Fling! Smash!!!:cool:

[missileer]

Quick update. I am working on the front wall of the Guild Hall (not quite finished). I will add a photo on that with my next post. In the meantime, I am building the Archway Interior. I installed the hinges and window ledge facade on the small closed window (see photo). I have the double door ready to install. It is slightly smaller than the outside doors, so I had to modify the recess insert. And since I am recessing the door I will have to add a piece of slate flooring in front of the door. Plus, I had to trim the wall tab next to the open doorway (it was intended to be used with the flat printed door in place). In the photo, you can see the floor strip on the other side of the door opening. I am going to edge glue (no tab) that joint, so I will conduct the gluing on a piece of wax paper to prevent gluing it to my cutting board (which I have been known to do).:rolleyes: Plodding along. Real world interference. Had to get my business tax returns out the door; they are due tomorrow. I didn't want to give the governments my money any sooner than I had to. :)

John

[missileer]

Unfortunately for the model world, I am back. I have made a bit of progress. I have finally figured out a way to make the stirrup steps for the the coaches. Per the photos, I used the bottom of one of the coaches to provide two boards (which I glued back-to-back). From this double sided board, I measured and cut two short pieces that would allow me to form a rectangular step plate, with two triangular side braces (first photo). I colored the cut edges with a tan Crayola pencil. I then glued the two stirrups to the steps piece , prior to cutting the steps piece from the parts sheet. Trying to glue those little bitty pieces AFTER cutting out the steps base piece, will drive you completely insane (Yeah, I tried that for about 5 minutes and then printed a new parts sheet)! The other 2 photos show the front and side view of the finished product. The #11 blade was only used to show size comparison; I cut everything with scissors.

[elliott]

Unfortunately? I think not. You're doing some imagineering & fine exacting work John. You are better than you think you are. I see a definite improvement in your work from the time you signed on here.

[missileer]

Elliott,

Thank you for the kind words. In all seriousness, if I have improved, it is due to all the tips and advice that I have gotten from the master builders and designers on this forum. Not to mention access to the caliber of models, that would have been out of my price range, had they been sold in the plastic, resin or wood markets. The decision to seek membership on this forum, ranks up there with my decision to make a career in the USAF. It is a great fraternal organization!

John

[Vermin_King]

I just hope you aren't cursing me before the project is done

[missileer]

A small update. Here is a photo of the carriage mounting steps installed. On the Fodor coach (in process), I plan to improve the steps, by opening up the back of each step, similar to the real thing.

[Vermin_King]

Looking good

[missileer]

VK,

On the contrary, this has become the most interesting model project that I have ever attempted. So many decision options! Even if I fall on my sword, now and then, it is worth it, because the "new frontiers" are almost endless. I love details and the models in this project contain a smorgasbord of the same.

[Vermin_King]

You know this guy would look good there
https://s26.postimg.org/uaurs0uih/20170924_200725.jpg

[wideride]

GO JOHN, GO!!!
Looks great! You've got much more patience than I posses! The wheel spokes are.... SPOKES!
George

[missileer]

VK, I would really like to use those two figures for the Red and Black Tudor, that will be the next vehicle built. I found some nice white horses in a bundle that I bought from One Monk Miniatures. I am going to extend the wagon tongue to accommodate 4 horses.

George, Thanks. It must seem to folks that I jump around a bit in my builds, but when an idea hits, I either go try it out immediately or I will probably talk myself into believing it's too difficult.

[Padre]

I thought this was going to be the bar from Tales from the White Hart, a collection of short stories by science fiction writer Arthur C. Clarke,

[missileer]

Now to the update. As you all know, I want to put freight on some of the vehicles. I have found several nice pieces, but they were way too big (no forklifts were available to these guys). So, the guy leaning up against the Hogshead barrel (which is too big) will be my scruffy driver of this rig and was reduced to 85 per cent to fit the doorways of the Inn and the rig he will drive. He is a barfly that was converted to a pious seated parishioner by OldschoolDM. The barrel is by Dave Graffam and I reduced it using a printer setting of 50 per cent. The coach, of course, is by Vermin King and was/is fun to detail. I have some additional detailing ideas for the next coach and the follow on Red and Black mod. Anyway, I threw in the dime to give some idea of size. I had to reduce the barrel a wee bit, so that the driver would be able to unload it by himself. I found a wonderful barmaid to travel with the driver, but then I remembered that this was going to an elementary school, so that was a scratch. :) I placed the flattened version of the barrel, so folks could see the neat construction design. It really wasn't that hard to build the smaller version. Just a little patience and a lot of Tullamor Dew.:cool:

[Vermin_King]

VK, I would really like to use those two figures for the Red and Black Tudor, that will be the next vehicle built. I found some nice white horses in a bundle that I bought from One Monk Miniatures. I am going to extend the wagon tongue to accommodate 4 horses.

George, Thanks. It must seem to folks that I jump around a bit in my builds, but when an idea hits, I either go try it out immediately or I will probably talk myself into believing it's too difficult.

Sounds great. The figures are not true miniatures. They have mirrored backs. On the seated figure, you will need to either extend the lap blanket or snip part off.

[missileer]

Padre,
Sorry to disappoint, but thanks for the book lead. I missed that one.

[missileer]

VK, Thanks for the tip. The coachman will be perfect, because he will be on the ground, facing the open door of the coach, ready to assist the disembarking passenger. I am not sure how I will handle the coach interior as yet. If you have any suggestions, I am all ears.

[missileer]

VK,
I wanted to use the Mail coach in the diorama, coming down the road towards the Inn. Do you think it will fit in with the older style coaches. I was not sure if the older coaches would still be in use at the time of the coach with lights. I think, the original version, that I got from you, has older style lamps (which will be fine). Since this will be a small village scene, the village dress would not seem too far off. What are your thoughts?

John

[Vermin_King]

If I remember right, this style of mail coach got its start in the 1700's. The Tudor coach is from the late 1500's/ early 1600's. When I was younger, I remember visits to the Brunkhorst Farm where they were still using farm equipment from the 1800's, newer stuff, too, but old wagons with mules were still in use.

It would be a bit of a stretch to put them in the same scene, but not impossible. I really have a feeling that back then they probably took better care of their equipment to get maximum use. A stretch, but maybe not that big a stretch. Hard to say

[missileer]

VK, Thanks for the input. I think I will use the mail coach. I may replace the lamps with older style lanterns to make it look more like a 50 year, rather than a 100 year difference.

I had a little time today, so I worked on the selecting the coach commercial loads. The first photo shows the load that will be on the primarily finished coach. The Red and Black coach will have a cargo of personal trunks, similar to the one in photo 2 (I am trying to find 3 different styles). I have made some progress on the Hall walls, but not enough for photos, yet. I also found a hand cart that I will use as a prop for unloading a forth (undetermined style) coach or maybe a freight wagon (if I can find one). When I install the horses and reins, I will also tie down the cargo loads (the cargo will be glued to the coaches for more stability).

[Vermin_King]

Looks good, sir

[wideride]

Hey John! Love the layering and detail. Still cannot get over the wheels!
George

[missileer]

VK and George,

Thanks for the compliments!

John

[missileer]

Just to clarify, none of the things that I am building for this diorama are my designs; I'm just kit-bashing everyone else's wonderful designs. Which brings me to an update (work and house guests have delayed things a bit). I am working on the covered entry to the Hall (photo 1); have finished the cutout for the upper floor of the left side of the Hall; and have started on a cart by Dave Graffam. I figured that this is a small village, so they would only have one wheelwright. Therefore, I am changing the original wheels on the cart to match the wheels on the coaches (photo 3). No one would order special wheels for a cart. :)

[missileer]

The cart turned out better than I hoped. One of my ink cartridges started running out just as the underside of the cart was printing. It left a greenish speckled look to the finish. It makes the underside look even more realistic, so I used it as is. :)

[Vermin_King]

Very nice, sir

[Kevin WS]

Excellent little cart!

[SCEtoAUX]

Nice cart. The color does make it look a bit more realistic.
No mistake. Just a happy little accident.:)

[missileer]

VK, Kevin and Doug,

Thanks! By the way, I added two more layers of 110# paper in between the printed handles to add some additional stiffness.

John

[wideride]

Cart looks realistic! Another fine job, John!
George

[missileer]

George, thanks.

I have a small update report. I have finished the first coach, except for attaching the horses and reins (I will do this as I permanently install the coach in the diorama). The first two pics show the driver in his seat and the cargo tied to the back of the coach. The "rope" is fine rigging cord for ship models. I have also cut out the framework for the right side of the hall. It is shorter than the wall, because half the wall will be covered by the attached building between the Inn and the Hall. The white horse will be used for the red and black coach that I have yet to assemble. I tried gluing the horse to 1mm card, but the front leg is so thin, that the card tended to shatter during cutting. I decided that I would use the stacking method to thicken the horse. I will cut out 10 copies of the outline horse for each horse, and sandwich them between the mirror images of the white horse. I will need enough to make 4 horses.:eek:

I have decided to give the nod to Marco Polo, by adding a couple of Himalayan pack horses (pic 3) and I might also add a female villager riding side saddle on a unicorn (just for the heck of it).:)

John

[wideride]

John, are you sure you didn't carve that wagon out of a scrap of wood?;) Looks fantastic, as always.
George

[Vermin_King]

Could you just glue a stack of card together and glue on horse onto that? Then cut out, glue the other side of the horse onto that and trim for evenness?

[missileer]

George,
Thank you very much!

VK,
If I had better knife skills, I would try that. But with scissors, the legs are just too thin. A stack that thick would twist under the scissor pressure of the straight blade. If I used the snippet technique, I would need to do some filing and, once again, the thinness of the legs would cause me problems. So I am left with the patience game.:) I am used to it. By the time all the coaches and carts are assembled, I will have cut out somewhere between 120 and 160 spoke wheels. But I do thank you for trying to lighten my workload. The ultimate goal here, is to build well enough to pay homage to some really well designed kits. Which reminds me; where can I find that coachman and driver that you showed me? I will need those for the red and black coach. I think I have figured out a simple interior for the coach (since I will have the door open with the coachman appearing to hold it). I will use the upper layer of the driver's seat (without the foot brace board) on both ends of the coach. I will use the outside trim on the inside walls, and since I will have an interior, I will cut out the windows. Comments, please!

[Vermin_King]

They are here -- The Royal Mail Coach | Cardboard Warriors forum (http://cardboard-warriors.proboards.com/thread/8617/royal-mail-coach)

[missileer]

VK,
Thanks much! I found that the version I had, must have been a very early version.
John

[missileer]

I am still cutting out horses and horse blanks (and more wheels). However, I am working on the buildings, also. As shown below, I have the two walls that contain the covered entrance to the Guild Hall finished and ready for installation of the covered entrance. I probably will not get anything else done until after Halloween. About 15 years ago, I started turning my front yard into a scary garden the day before Halloween. Now the neighborhood looks forward to that display (I get more adults than kids).:) So starting tomorrow, I have to start assembling the garden. See you folks late next week. Happy Halloween!

[Vermin_King]

Looking good, sir. Get photos of your garden, please.

Trick or Drink!

[southwestforests]

On the images I grabbed them from, it looked more like a thin sheet of metal over the windows that didn't protrude much from the building. Also looked like it had been painted over multiple times with black paint that had faded. Hmm, maybe pitch or tar to seal it? I know little about the methods of the period and that idea popped in and it seemed like something to ask.

[Vermin_King]

I imagine in the past, tar or pitch was on there, but in our sophisticated age, I think it is currently paint

[missileer]

It is raining today, so I have a reprieve from Halloween.

VK, thanks and I will post pictures of the final garden configuration in "Other things we make and do".

Now, lets forget that the world is coming apart at the seams and Mother Nature is not helping things, and get back to the reality of paper modeling.:)

I got up early and made some progress. I have the covered entry way installed. The parts fit nicely, but I would not recommend building/installing the arches to inexperienced modelers. You need a lot of patience and four hands would help.:) If installed properly, the box-like room slides in over the arches and fits like a driving glove. My Leprechaun helped me out quite a bit here.
So here is the current pictorial status. The walls appear bowed in, but that is the glue holding all the detail, shrinking everything as it dries, I have an internal bracing system that corrects for that, which I will cover after I get the other two walls in place and a bottom plate on the building.

[wideride]

John,
I love the depth you've added to VK's design. You are both very talented individuals!
George

[missileer]

George: A belated "Thank you". I think that I might have overextended myself. I had to tear down and pack up the Halloween Garden, plan the Christmas outdoor scene (will start assembling that the day after Thanksgiving), and working on 5 separate paper model projects.:eek: Oh, yeah, did I mention that I still have a day job?:)

OK, here is the update for this project. I firmed up the plan for one end of the Inn and had to cut it out to see if it would work. It is a sandwich assembly reading from left to right. The left cutout will be the top of the sandwich. Since the middle of the sandwich will be the main structure with glue tabs, I will have to trim the right most piece to make sure that it does not interfere with the fit of the middle piece with it's connecting wall. I have all the parts for the second coach done, except for the stirrup steps. Hope to finish them tomorrow and assemble the coach this weekend. I also have to finish gluing the 3 recessed doors on the final wall of the Guild Hall. Hopefully, I can get the walls up this weekend also. PRAY FOR RAIN!!!

[Vermin_King]

Doing it up nice, sir

[missileer]

Thanks, VK. You have given me some great models to work with.

[wideride]

John, the facade built up real nicely! And I do understand over-extension; one of these days, we really need to try and get more than four hours of sleep in a day!
George

[missileer]

George,
Thanks, the details sort of tell me what is needed and then I have to balance that with reality. I can't always take it to the level that I would really like to.

[missileer]

After a long layoff, I am back (groaning will not sway my decision).:) I have made a bit of progress. In this series of pics, I have finished the end wall of the Inn. The angled shot shows off the layering best. The upper window has only the frame raised on the surface. The hinges on the door and the shuttered windows are surface raised, as are the shuttered window sills. The door is recessed. I will add a door handle after the building is assembled.

[missileer]

This series has to do with a rear wall of the Inn. The first photo shows the layering pieces before assembly. The woodwork, as in the last series, will be surface mounted. The upper and middle windows will be recessed. The lower windows and the door are shown as sub assemblies in the second photo. I built the recessing frame for the door from scrap. The door also has a wood trim overlay, thus recessing the door panels and windows. The two windows will be bay windows. I just bent the window wings about 30 degrees and then capped the windows (top and bottom) with scrap material. They will be surface mounted. Once again, I will add door handles after assembling the building.

[Vermin_King]

Glad to see you back. I always have a hard time coming back to projects. I hope you and yours are doing well

[dhaugh]

What's a few month's wait between friends; project looks good. Dave H

[missileer]

VK,
Everything is going fine now. Real like and family took priority for a while. I hope to continue to make progress on this and 2 other projects for the next few months. If luck holds, my plan is to have them all complete by May.

DaveH,
Thanks for the encouragement!

A bit more progress; this time it is the back wall of the pass-through separating the Inn from the Guild Hall. The photo shows the parts I will use for this wall. The fancy hinges are for the door (almost drove me to drink cutting those). I will drill out the leaf-like pedals tomorrow. The small straight hinges are for the shuttered window as is the stone window sill. The wood frame will be an overlay; the door and windows will be back mounted for a little extra depth. Once again, the door handle will be placed after assembling the building.

[wideride]

Hey John!
Good to see ya back at it. Love the detail work. And hinges too? WOW. Looks GREAT!
George

[missileer]

Thanks, George.

I drilled the holes to make them look like nail holes. Not great (the old hands are not as steady as they use to be). After I mounted them on the door, with the darker background, I think they look a little bit more like nail holes. Oh, well, nothing ventured; nothing gained.:) Now I have to finish putting the wall together.

[Vermin_King]

Nice touch, sir.

[missileer]

VK,

Thanks. Those hinges just called to me and I had to try. I was not able to get all the detail that you provided, but I gave it my best effort. In a previous post, I mentioned separating what I would like to do and what is realistically obtainable. In this case, I did not listen to the inner voice that said, "Hey, Pal, this ain't realistically obtainable!" In the real world of display, the great majority of people will never even notice the hinges. But, I will always know that they are there.:)

[missileer]

The two walls are now complete. The angled photo shows the bay windows a bit better.

[wideride]

Oh Yea! Now that's COOL! The layering and insetting make it POP! And those door hinges........ .....what can I say? Great Job, John!
George

[missileer]

George,

Thanks, the walls that I am beginning to work on now are going to be a bit trickier.:eek: In the meantime, I diverted to assembling the second coach (the Fodar, straight end). I have to finish the stirrups and the tie downs for the cargo load. Should get to that tomorrow. Here is what it looks like so far. Lighting for the photos was not the best; I'll fix that before my nest post.

[missileer]

Well, you know the old saying that "tomorrow never comes". It took a bit, but tomorrow has finally arrived and I have finished the coach. The first photo shows the method I use for making my "rope" (and other things like hand rails, etc.). I take rigging line (lower right corner) and soak it with ZAP Thin CA and wipe off the excess with a dental tool. I use wax paper under the line to confine the excess glue and provide a place for the line to dry overnight, without adhering to any surface. I use pins on a board to keep the line straight while gluing (or sometimes I just use a weight on each end of the piece of line).
You can see the stiff line lying over the bottle of glue. That stiff piece of line will now be used to simulate the ropes holding a stack of lumber to the back of the coach. The second photo shows the "ropes" installed on the lumber stack with the ends that will be wrapped and glued to the bottom of the coach (which is shown in the last photo). I know, the ends are not even (I am lazy), but this coach will be glued on to a diorama base, so that no one will ever see the bottom of that coach (unless they have an inspection mirror):)

[missileer]

Next, I have a few views of the finished coach. Yes, I know, I forgot to color the back of the stirrups. I saw that when I looked at the photo. I will correct that before I glue the coach to the base. I realize, now, that I did not color the back of the stirrups of the first coach, either. I think I will wait until all six coaches/freight wagons are finished before I open the paint bottle.:)

[Vermin_King]

Wow, I never thought the Fodor Coach would get detailed like this. Thanks

[missileer]

VK,

My pleasure! Thanks, for providing the magnificent models. More on the way.

John

[missileer]

I want to use some fancier horses for a couple of the coaches. At his scale, the legs are extremely thin and trying to cut them out of cardboard or even foam core board is impossible for my skill level with a knife or scissors (I tried). So I am going to use the same method that I used on the carriage wheels. I will cut out 12 or 14 individual silhouettes of the horse glued together in a stack, with a full colored horse on either side of the stack. It will take some time, but I figure I only have to make 4 horses.:eek: I ran a short prototype test (photo below) and it looks like it will work well. Lots of snacks and cups of tea and I will muddle through.:) I forgot to put a scale comparison item in the photo, so imagine the horse about 1/8 of an inch taller then the diameter of a US quarter.

[missileer]

OK, folks, I have cut out my "kits" for assembling the first horse and the front wall of the connecting building between the Inn and the Hall.:eek: I hope to assemble them tomorrow night.

[Vermin_King]

Those horses are beautiful.

[elliott]

They are indeed and should look equally beautiful when assembled. Looking forward to the assembly.

[Don Boose]

It has been most enjoyable to see what you have done with Dave's design, John. And it has been great to see Dave's periodic comments as the project has developed. Lots to learn here.

Don

[missileer]

I am not quite finished assembling the wall, but I have finished the horse. One thing that I learned during this task is that you need a 24 hour period after gluing a cutout to the stack to completely cure the glue. If you added one layer at a time, it would take 14 days to build the horse. I had applied several layers each day and the horse warped between applications and it took a some work to flatten it back out. My next horse will be assembled using this plan. Day 1: Glue 6 separate stacks of of 2 filler horses (do not use the colored horses in any of these stacks). Day 2: Glue each set of 2 stacks together (you now have 3 stacks). Day 3: Glue all 3 stacks together, glue the colored horses on the top and bottom of the composite stack and let cure for 48 hours. Each day during the curing, the horse stacks should be under pressure to keep them flat. I would put a layer of waxed paper on the table, add the stacks, then add another layer of waxed paper on top of the stacks. Now add a weight on top of the waxed paper covering all of the stacks to provide the curing pressure. OK, I'll step away from the podium and shut up. :) Pictures below of the finished horse.

John

[Kevin WS]

That panned out well - a good idea!

[elliott]

Just as expected. They should look great when harnessed up and ready to go.

[missileer]

Kevin and Elliott,
Thanks for the confidence votes! VK's talent has caused a change in plans. He recently took a vintage coach (high class), recolored it, modified it slightly and generally cleaned it up. I decided to use that one as my fancy coach with white horses. It took me a day or two to decide how I was going to detail it. I have the side panel "kits" cut out and I have included a picture. I included a copy of the wheels; those will be built in stack format, like my other wheels. I haven't yet decided on the details for the rest of the coach. Once I assemble the side detail, I will cut the windows out on the plain base unit. I will then glue the back plate on and cut the windows out in it (you can see a couple of punch holes in the back plate), Then I will glue the window panel to the back plate. Theoretically, it should work.:eek:

[missileer]

I got one last thing accomplished today; I finished the front wall of the connector building. I added the angled shot to better show some of the layered overlays. For instance, the archway has a double thickness overlay with additional overlays on the top and the two side bands.

[missileer]

I had a little problem with the wall and learned something important. The sheets that I used for the overlays were all printed on a HP Photo type printer. The sheet containing the door and the windows that I glued on the back of the wall were printed on larger HP machine that takes both A3 and A4 paper, because my Photo machine went belly-up. It turns out that all printers, even those manufactured by the same company do not have necessarily have the same default print size settings. The A3/A4 printer default size is just a hair smaller then the Photosmart. Over a page, it becomes a noticeable difference. Instead of just being able to glue the block of windows with the small door to the back, I had to separate the door and the windows above the door from the other windows, If I had left them connected, the door and widow set would not have aligned properly. By separating the two sections, I was able to center the individual sections, so that the slight size difference is not noticeable (unfortunately, I still know the error is still there).

On the brighter side, the coach did not turn out too badly and I was able to cut the fringe on the end of the drivers seat. It only shows if you tilt the coach side (photo 2), but once, again, I know it is there. :) And now the photos:

[missileer]

I know it has been a while since I posted anything here. No, I have not been sleeping; I have been slowly working the build. I have completed the passenger cage for the Tudor straight-sided coach and partially assembled the passenger cage for the "fancy" coach. I have to make a bottom for the fancy coach and decide what to use for axles and the wagon tongue assembly. It is going to be a kit-bash modification from the Tudor coach. I am not sure, at this moment, if I can figure a way to make the front wheels turn. Also, after going back and looking at VK's design thread, I realized that I will need SIX horses for this rig.:eek: On the up side, I have glued the four walls of the Guild Hall together and started work on the egg-shell interior brace. I cannot put the roof on the building, until I install the egg-crate. The open entry-way prevents me from installing the egg-crate from the bottom. End of ramblings; here are some photos of coach build (that is a US Quarter).:)

[missileer]

And here are the photos of the Hall, so far. You will see some areas that are not layered; these areas will be covered by the attached building.

[Vermin_King]

I know it has been a while since I posted anything here. No, I have not been sleeping; I have been slowly working the build. I have completed the passenger cage for the Tudor straight-sided coach and partially assembled the passenger cage for the "fancy" coach. I have to make a bottom for the fancy coach and decide what to use for axles and the wagon tongue assembly. It is going to be a kit-bash modification from the Tudor coach. I am not sure, at this moment, if I can figure a way to make the front wheels turn. Also, after going back and looking at VK's design thread, I realized that I will need SIX horses for this rig.:eek: On the up side, I have glued the four walls of the Guild Hall together and started work on the egg-shell interior brace. I cannot put the roof on the building, until I install the egg-crate. The open entry-way prevents me from installing the egg-crate from the bottom. End of ramblings; here are some photos of coach build (that is a US Quarter).:)

You know you need to do one in white and have it pulling up in front of the Disney castle...

Beautiful work

EDIT -- it can be pulled by a four horse team or six

[missileer]

VK,

Thanks, and thanks for the tip about the horse count. But 6 horses coming down the road would be impressive. I probably will have to settle for 4, because I don't think 6 will fit with all the stuff I am putting in this layout. It will be "busy". Right now, I am planning on a minimum of 6 or 7 coaches and wagons; plus some pack horses. There will also be some hand carts. All that, with the main building (Inn and Hall) and a clock tower across the road from the Inn, it's going to be a bit tight.:)

[Vermin_King]

Which clock tower are you planning on using? There are some pretty nice ones out there

[missileer]

Dave Graffam's Clock at Rakes Corner. I thought the style and coloring fit very nicely with your Inn and Hall. And that is also where I got one of the hand carts (it came with the tower).

[Vermin_King]

Definitely fits. Dave's buildings are very nice. I went with Clock Tower #2 instead of this one. Similar geometry, but more choice on textures, and even has the cart

[missileer]

Not much physical progress. I cut out enough horse blanks for the second horse and am working on the design for the horse team hook-up. I found a few diagrams that will help a lot. I think that I will stick with the 4 horse team for the white carriage. I will just add the load bearing straps to the horses, along with the reins. With the horses not being sculpted, I think the other tack items would not look very good.

[elliott]

I had no idea that rigging (is that the right term?) up a horse team to a wagon is so complex. You've got some work ahead of you but I have no doubt that you can do it John. Still watching the development of this diorama as it grows and evolves.

[Papierschnitzel]

Well, the harnessing of horse power took the right technology ... still does today :-)

[missileer]

I never realized it either. I used to ride a lot, but you only had to worry about a saddle and bridle. In my research, I found that originally, a four horse team had to have 2 drivers (one for each two horse pair), because each horse had a separate set of reins. That means each driver held two sets of reins and had to individually control each horse. Not a job that I would want. With the invention of the set up in the diagrams, one driver could now control 6 horses (possibly 8, but I would not want to push the envelope that far).

[wideride]

Hey John! Good to see someone can still get at makin' some clippings!
Sometimes the research into a subject can be as much fun ,and interesting, as creating the model! Have a great day, and hope to talk to you soon!
George

[missileer]

I have been sort of winging this diorama, letting it lead me down the road. My plan has finally gelled and here is a description of what the final product should look like. I am sure there will be minor changes (small details added), but the general description will hold true. The footprint will be approximately 22 inches by 34 inches. Placing the 22 inch side in front of you. with the 34 inch side leading away from you, the Guild Hall and White Hart Inn will be in the lower right hand corner. The Clock Tower of Jake's Corner will be in the upper left hand corner. A curving dirt road, starting near the lower left corner and ending near the upper right corner, will leave the two buildings on opposite sides of the road. I stone surfaced courtyard will surround the Guild/Inn building on three sides. I may add a well for the horses, but then I may not. ??? The long rear side of the building will be bordered by grass. The Clock Tower will have a smaller stone surfaced courtyard in front of the building and extending around the left side. Road traffic will be busy. There will be the Fancy Coach, pulled by 4 horses, coming from the direction of London, followed by two villagers, each leading a pack horse. From the other direction, you will see two freight wagons, each pulled by 2 horses, followed in the distance by a unicorn with a female villager riding sidesaddle. In the Guild/Inn courtyard will be 1 Fodor coach ( all coaches will have two horses) 1 straight sided Tudor coach and 2 slant sided Tudors of different colors. The coaches will all have small freight loads and there will be two or three villagers with hand carts heading for the coaches. In the courtyard of the Clock Tower you will see 1 Tudor carriage (two horses) and a merchants wagon (two horses) set up for a sales effort of cloth and tea (maybe some other items). There will be numerous villagers wondering about. Some working; some not.

The wheels and the horses are the time consumers, along with the tack harnesses for the horses. Each wheel is 10 layers and each horse is 14 layers. :eek: This alone could drain my supply of Tullamore Dew.:) The other time consumer is the egg crate bracing I use for the inside of the buildings. My goal is to have the whole thing assembled by Sept 1, so that I will still have good weather to build the cover for it. Well, there is the plan, but as the old military axiom states, "The best plan never survives first contact with the enemy". ;)

[missileer]

Currently, I am working on two more coaches and the Guild/Inn building. I hope to start the Clock Tower next month. After I finish it, I will post the names of the designers of the various items and where I found them. So far, all kits have gone together very well. The only problems are the ones caused by my modifications. When you add layers, you add thickness and you need to plan ahead on how to minimize the results. In the early stages, I did not do that and I have a bit of flat forehead syndrome from banging my head on the table top.:)

[missileer]

No, I did not quit the project; a lot of real life stuff got in the way. I am now able to grab a little time, here and there, to work on the important things. I am currently working on paperschnitzel's market wagon. I am applying the layering bit and doing a bit of kit bashing also. I am using VK's wheels, because my village has only one wheelwright, so the wagons built locally would all sport the same wheel design. I have thickened the wagon tongue, by adding two more layers and am going to take the storage box from paperschnitzel's travel wagon and add three on them to the blank side of the market wagon. I think the tinkerer would have taken emergency feed for his horses. :) Anyway, here is where I am in the assembly process. Photo 1 shows the "kit" development and Photo 2 shows the current stage of assembly. Hopefully, I will have some further progress in the next couple of days. I am also still working on two of VK's wagon efforts ( the blue straight sided Tudor coach and the "Washington" restoration.

[Don Boose]

The wagon parts look mighty fine.

Don

[missileer]

Thanks, Don,

The model is well designed and fits together nicely. I like the hinges and door pull (on the wagon door) so much that I plan to use them elsewhere in the diorama.

[missileer]

I forgot to add that I have all 48 horse blanks cut out for the fancy "Washington" coach. I just have to glue them together in sets of 12.:) I don't have the wheels finished for this coach. It is a much more delicate cutting operation, as compared with the other coach wheels. The wheel on the left is the "Washington" coach wheel.

[missileer]

I am getting close to the finish line on the Market Wagon. I have to finish assembling and installing the three cargo pouches for the blank side and then glue the roof in place. I will be using a pair of dark brown horses for this wagon (yeah, that means cutting out 24 more horse blanks).:eek:

Because I used wheels other than the ones intended by the designer, I had to make a modification on the rear axle to keep the wagon reasonably level, fore and aft. Hope to have it finished by the end of the weekend.

[elliott]

John, you are really sticking with this project and I admire you for it. Do you have a tentative, kinda sorta, locked in jello kind of finish date in mind at this point? Not trying to rush you, just curious is all.

[missileer]

Elliott,

As a matter of fact, I have a firm date: somewhere between 1 Oct 2018 and the opening date of the Paper Modellers Convention in Virginia in the fall. Which means that I will be putting the finishing touches on it in a hotel room the night before the opening .:)

[Vermin_King]

I really like Chris's wagons. They came out between the Tudor coaches and the Vardoes. They have so many choices available on effects. Nice to see them shown that extra love.

I actually call the cream colored coach the Princess Coach. I still hope to decide on which example of the Washington coach I want to finish the model of. Instead of the simple-build style, I have been working on having the cabin sitting on the frame. I've collected some images of Bay horses, since Washington's coach was pulled by his prize bay horses. His riding horse was white (actually gray per the old joke), but the harness animals were bay, in spite of some of the old illustrations. I still hope to get the Osgood Mansion and coach done for Papercuts this year. So, there will be another coach for you to do your magic

[missileer]

Thanks, VK,

The Market Wagon (with modifications) is finished. It may be a bit off scale with the other coaches, but it should not be noticeable. The Market Wagon and Travel Wagon will be parked across the road from the coaches. Here is the finished (sans horses) product.

I didn't show the underside, because I included that photo in my last post. I used the door hinges and pull on the storage pouches, because I liked the style. I have not yet decided on the breed of horse to pull the wagons. It will have to be a heavy hauler (Percheron/Shire/Clydesdale). In researching horses, I found out that the Clydesdale was originally a small horse. Breeders made it taller. I guess that they never heard of the engineers golden rule : IF IT AIN'T BROKE, DON'T FIX IT.

My next stage is to finish the Princess coach and the Tudor straight sided coach. Then I will go back and finish the Inn/Guild Hall. After that I will probably build the rest of the coaches/wagons and finish with the Clock Tower. I still have a long way to go.

[missileer]

OK! The Tudor straight sided coach is in the home stretch. I have the individual pieces of cargo assembled and the coach finished with the exception of the stirrups, the driver and mounting the cargo. I will assemble the horses after I finish all the wagons. I have yet to decide which color horse will go with which coach. Here is the photo of the current state of the Tudor straight sided coach. The larger rear wheels are about 1 inch in diameter.

[Vermin_King]

Nicely done, sir

[missileer]

Thanks, VK.

[missileer]

Since shortly after my last post, a string of physical calamities began hitting members of my clan and I have neither had the time or the inclination to enjoy myself by going back to my hobby. The final straw was one of my daughters (a operating room nurse) contracting the virus. After recovery, she jumped back into the fray and it made me take a hard look at my own reactions to the hand life has dealt the people in my life. Everyone has not fully recovered, but they are all alive and functioning. And I have been selfish by not continuing my model projects. They were all intended to be gifts for members of my family. So I have mentally kicked myself in the rear end and jumped back into this project. I will shortly post some photos to summarize where the project stands and progress made, so no one needs to read the whole thread to catch up. So, Happy Thanksgiving, for those celebrating it, and a wish for a happy day for everyone else.

John

[C9B]

Thanks for the update. I look forward to your upcoming posts (and pictures). Best wishes to you and all in your family. Was it John Lennon who said that life is what happens while you were making other plans?

[Vermin_King]

John, I totally get it. I now have about ten relatives with the blasted virus. Business consists of working three times as hard for half the business. Lost a couple folks I know from the virus and two 'due to' the virus. They were needing surgeries that kept being postponed.


And the one that hit me hardest was a 45-year-old, Walter, from Germany who died suddenly. We were collaborating on several projects, and then he's gone suddenly.


Once Medicare AEP is over, I hope to return to the hobby with a vengeance

[Joe711]

This is a difficult time for everyone.

That’s why it’s great to see these old projects!
I am watching, and I wish you all the best, Gentlemen!
Regards, Joe