Kookliks 1/72 U-Boat Type VII C North Sea Camo - Dave Winfield Repaint

[jagolden01]

Model:1/72 U-Boat Type VII C North Sea Camo
Designer/Publisher: kooklit
Repaint: Dave Winfield - North Sea Camouflage
Scale: 1/72
No. of Pages: Instructions 14 Parts 26
Purchased from: ecardmodels.com
Cost: 14.95 (USD)
Delivery: Direct download
File Size: 20 megabytes

I purchased the original model published by kooklit last year on disc and have drooled over it ever since. This repaint in North Sea camo was something I couldn't resist. There were a myriad of camo designs used on the u-boats and this repaint is an extrapolation of them.

Compared to the original publishing, this release is "clean". By that I mean it does not (need to) include the almost overwhelming number of post-release revisions as the original did. Nice.

The file contains the model in one paint scheme, a weathered North Sea camouflage. The weathering is nice and the color scheme looks good. May be a little bright in the PDFs but sure that will tone down in the printing.

Both editions of the model are works of art and are interesting just to look at. I'm usually behind the curve of building current release models but I'm going to start preliminary work on it.
I still need to complete my Marek Marathon model and continue work on the Arnoux flying wing.

The screenshots below give a good look at the graphics.

[jagolden01]

I will be building this at 1:32 scale. The pieces scale up very well, even the raster parts.
This will mean splitting a few of the pieces across two sheets. I'll make the breaks along the bottom of the hull since much of this is covered by another structure and any other misalignments will be mostly out of sight.

I will also have to hunt around for the particular stock I want to use. I love the Hammermill 110# Index stock. If I can get that as 11" x 17" that will be great.
If I have to get stock from a local printer I'll have it cut 13" x 19".

The picture below shows the difference when the parts are enlarged. This is the largest former, just about midway of the hull.

[airdave]

not as familiar (as the rest of you) with some aspects of your builds...
but I am worried about the scale up you are proposing.

is the print quality good enough to handle that amount of increase?

yes, that Sub does have a little better quality resolution ...but you are talking about a pretty big increase!

I hope it works well and I cant wait to see pics of that build!



you commented on the "brightness" of the colouring in the model.
YES...I do have a tendency to increase the overall contrast (on purpose),
which is a result of my own experience with home based printing.
I find that ink jet printers, while giving high quality, tend to tone down the contrasts
(I'm sure it has a little to do with the card/paper absorbancy).
so, I keep this in mind when doing repaints and I attempt to compensate for that tonal/contrast loss.

thats a good point to explain.

[jagolden01]

airdave, I ran a test print containing part of the camo hull and part of the darker hull, all with lots of rivets.
The results/resolution looks MMM, MMM, good! I wouldn't go much bigger, though. Probably 250% max if someone was inclined to do that.
Obviously this will be quite large on completion, something like the 1:100 Arizona that was recently complete on the groups.

I'm going to scale the formers this week. Not sure what I'll mount them to. keds_girl_lala has been using basswood for her Potemkin build. She likes it, the formers look and fit great, and she says it's easier to cut than laminated or thick card board. She's also been using florist foam between the bulkheads. sands easily (messy though) and can be pushed into the formers for a tight fit.
Man, she's been giving good advice.

I'll check the hardware store and Lowes. If it's easier to cut and will do the job correctly, I'm all for it. My hand cramp and tire quickly.

[airdave]

I have to admit, the layers in Kooklik's files were quite nice to work with.
I also did my best to keep the resolution and file sizes up
and I am really really happy to hear that the overall quality is that good!!

Good luck with your build!

Wait till you see the next version of Kooklik's Uboat!!!
Should be in the shop soon!!(ecardmodels.com)

[Papercut]

Just bought a copy myself. I was soooo pleased w/the original version, had to have this one as well. Now I can build a completely stock version and a tricked out, by that I mean using 1/72nd detail items to dress the sub up. Now to decide which one to build first? Will be watching your progress. I believe for the money, this has to be one of the best download models out there on the net and I can not get enough of kooklits artful designs/work. Now when will he release that Monster train engine he has been showing off:eek:. Rick:D

[jyduchene]

Your repaints are stunning. I am have been collecting resources and will be ordering some version of this kit. I would like to suggest that a flag would be good to include. The revell kit shows a red and black period correct flag. Is this something that could be included?

Nice work, John

[airdave]

Your repaints are stunning. I am have been collecting resources and will be ordering some version of this kit. I would like to suggest that a flag would be good to include. The revell kit shows a red and black period correct flag. Is this something that could be included?

Nice work, John

actually, thats a great idea!
and I could update the files with a flag or two.
shouldn't be a problem.
I'll talk to ecardmodels about updating the model files asap

(Chris you read this?)

could you send me some flag art?
or post something here that would help me find the correct flag(s)

[airdave]

okay, heres the deals with flags.

if anyone has a suggestion for particular flags, I need to hear them.
hopefully some reference images too please.

I'm not gonna change the current kooklik repaint
(I do have another Uboat repaint coming out soon, and I will add flags to that model)

I am going to do up a "flag package"
primarily for the Uboats, but I guess they could be used for other things.

I'll do a number of Uboat flags, in various scales
and I'll let Chris release it through ecardmodels.

jagolden...I apologize for the small sidetrack (of your thread), I will start a new thread for this "flag" topic"

please pm me with your flag suggestions or requests
or post your requests in the new thread.
...otherwise wait for the release at ecardmodels

[jagolden01]

jagolden...I apologize for the small sidetrack (of your thread), I will start a new thread for this "flag" topic"

Doesn't bother me, Dave. Glad the topic was brought up!

[cgutzmer]

Dave - start a NEW topic about flags :) That will make it much easier for people to give feedback in public - then they can feed off each others ideas heh heh
Chris

[jagolden01]

"You know, soldier, I notice you're always last" - Sgt Hulka
"I'm pacing myself, seargent". - Bill Murray

Moving along but no build yet. The large scale-up will require the parts that normally fit on one sheet to be divided across many sheets when printed.
Since each parts sheet is alphabetically noted, I've been adding the sheet "letter" next to each sheet part number so they'll be no mix-ups.
Oddly, the first page of formers seems to be in raster format while the rest are vector format.

Yes, I could do that by hand with a pencil after printing out but I have difficulty writing in a readable manner and I'd probably get mislabel!

[jagolden01]

The scaled-up formers total 24 pages.
on two parts pages I split some formers across two sheets. These are large bulky formers that can easily and precisely be pieced together.
for three of the prints, I strapped together 11" x 17" paper to form 11" x 34" sheets. These were for former parts that I didn't think would piece together accurately.

Still have not decided what to laminate the former prints to.
By my measurement, the slots will be .09" so I'll need to use something as close as possible to that

After I do get the sheet mounted, do I cut on the outside of the line or bisect it down the middle? Thoughts?

[airdave]

thats a good question...as you enlarge parts, the line thickness becomes an issue in the overall size of the pieces.

personally I would cut to the minimum (center line or inside), this way if your model shrinks slightly you can adjust the "skin" by trimming panels...but if you enlarge the model, you can't "stretch" the outer panels to fit and might end up with gaps.

just my inexperienced opinion.

[cgutzmer]

Unless I am missing the obvious here just cut the slots out to the same thickness as whatever you are laminating too :)
Chris

[Padre]

That's what I do when I rescale a model, and I do it a lot. I usually cut just on the outside edge of the line, I think.............

[Papercut]

Are you building the up-scaled frame yet? Will there be photos soon. Really looking forward to this re-sized sub. Have you printed both versions yet, go thru and look very close and you will notice a few differences between the printed details. I have discovered it will be helpful to include parts from both versions in a single build. For a place to look, check the reprint of the deck compared to original. Look at the details on the original and the ones on the re-color, mine did not come out sharp like they did on the original. This caused me concern until I figured I could just use details from both the get the results I want. Again, look'n forward to your build.:DRick

[jagolden01]

papercut, I've been mounting the frame pieces. I spent some time looking for a single, thick board to ount on but did not find what I wanted. There used to be an art and architectural supply store a couple of cities over, but they've closed down.
I am using 2 thicknesses of standard illustration board laminated together.
My hands ache just thinking about all the cutting.

Thanks for the advice on the original vs. repaint for the details. I'll look over and see what I may ant to combine.

I wonder if the repaint had access to the original vector drawing or if he had to use rasterized to do the repaint?

[airdave]

The repaint is closely guarded military secret...if I told you how it was done, I would have to....oh, wait...is the cold war over?....



evry repaint I have done so far, is a little different, depending on the original files I have to work with.

For the Uboat, I started with a set of Photoshop files (I don't use Photoshop)..that I transferred to another program.

this particular repaint involved using Kooklik's well laid out instruction diagrams. Between those and the actual model pages/parts, I was able to reconstruct the entire side of the sub (in a 2D manner..but with anticipated overlaps, curves and 3D measurements...I got a pretty good eye too)

anyway, once I have a reconstructed sub or even just a section, I start manually applying the already established artwork* and sectioning it to fit each part. (*artwork is a combination of vector, bitmaps, jpegs and actual photographs as needed, already created in another art/paint program)

the time consuming part is making adjustments to all the final layers and adding details and final textures.

yes, you will always find differences in repaint files (quality, definition or smoothing, colour variation, etc etc), unfortunately everyone has different printing processes too and this affects the look of the model...papercuts idea to blend parts is a great one! but only if you already have both models to compare.
If you don't have both, then I guess you wouldn't know the difference anyway?
I remember altering the deck boards...I applied some old wood texture using a photo or bitmap ot something like that?...maybe thats why it looks softer, not as sharp?

[Papercut]

Hello jagolden01, I am looking forward to you're monster build of this beast of the sea. Believe me I feel for ya on the cutting out of the frames. I discovered a easy way to do this is with a break away knife, seems to cut easier, holds the edge better and you do not waste time twisting the end of a knife to replace a blade every few cuts. That alone wears me out.Try to find one with a metal body with a lock slide, the 1st one I purchased was plastic with a simple slide that every time you touched it the blade would slide out of the handle. One w/a locking slide will not do this. I am about to start laminating to card as well and hope to post some photos soon. I hope I did not cause a problem with my pointing that some details were sharper on the original than the re-color. This I believe was due to the re-doing of the original print, I have another hobby, photography, and I full well know that a re-do of a print can be different than the original, that is the trade off and I agree depending on the printing process and equipment, this can as well cause variations. I do want to point out too anyone reading this post and trying to decide if to purchase this re-color of the original, do not hesitate. A wonderful job was done to bring us another version of this wonderful kit. The re-color is as good as the original. I was only pointing out a option for jagolden01 since he was scaling this baby up. I in no means intended to point out a flaw that is not really a flaw but the way this re-color works for those who have never done one. Alot, and I mean alot of work has to be done to get a subject to turn out this nice. So if I have done any harm, I am sorry.:DRick

[jagolden01]

Papercut, thanks for the knife suggestion. I'll probably us a #11 to cut out the slits, but for the overall shape, the knife you suggest would be better to grip and save on blades.

No problem pointing out the detail thing. These threads are for discussion of the topic and the input and heads -ups are appreciated.

Below are pics of the hang-up on progressing faster on the sub build. Had to finish this for the E-CardModels Marek Marathon. Just a few bits to add.
Other hold up is my mom was admitted to the hospital this week and now is on to rehab for a few weeks.

Should start posting pics next week as I star with the subs front third frame.

[Papercut]

Hope you mother gets well soon. We will keep her in our prayers. Like the bird, clean build, have this one too. After seeing this, can not wait to see what you do w/the sub.:DRick

[jagolden01]

Papercut, thanks. Mom's doing much better!

I've got the first formers pasted up. I used standard artist illustration board and laminated to double thickness. This will make strong formers with a good width.

I was considering filling the former gaps with foam and sanding to shape. However, I am probably going to be using 100# bristol for the stock and that has a lot of body.
Other possibility will be to skin the formers with tissue (like basla airplanes) and wetting it to tighten it up, then skinning with the printed parts. I think the idea has merit but still thinking about it.

[jagolden01]

I've received some great suggestions and help from Mark T. (eibwarrior). He had the great build thread on the 1:100 Arizona, here:
http://www.papermodelers.com/forum/ships-watercraft/1738-digital-navy-uss-arizona-1-100-a.html
If you haven't seen it, you must. The very start of the Arizona can be found over at Zealot.
Even though I always build up-scaled, it was/is Marks 1:100 Arizona that convinced me to build this at a super-display size.

I was looking at a 100# Strathmore bristol as the stock. Mark suggest the 903 Strathmore bristol with the smooth finish.
Think the 90# will be much better. I did think the 100# was a little thick. I can get that large enough to cut down to 13" x 19".

[Papercut]

Papercut, thanks. Mom's doing much better!

I've got the first formers pasted up. I used standard artist illustration board and laminated to double thickness. This will make strong formers with a good width.

I was considering filling the former gaps with foam and sanding to shape. However, I am probably going to be using 100# bristol for the stock and that has a lot of body.
Other possibility will be to skin the formers with tissue (like basla airplanes) and wetting it to tighten it up, then skinning with the printed parts. I think the idea has merit but still thinking about it.Hot dog, something old, but new for paper modeler's. Great idea since this is a monster in size. I do have a suggestion if you go this route, use glue sticks to attach the tissue. This was a old trick used while building those extra lite flyers. Wipe glue onto former,apply tissue dry using paint thinner to reactivate glue as needed, let set-up, mist lightly w/H2o and you end up with a skin, tight fit. Then I would use the same method for skinning by using the glue from a glue stick applied w/a brush after thinning with paint thinner. Apply lightly and let dry. I will watch with interest no matter how you apply. I have thought about this frame/keel and I will go a different route as well. I will build frame as one unit all at once, then use balsa to rib out shape, cover with light ply paper, then skin. I do not want the starved look of ribs showing.:DRick

[eibwarrior]

Thanks for the kind words jagolden. I'm glad I could help.

Building at this size is definitely experimental, uncharted waters. We're each other's best reference in any case, but upscale for sure.

I can't wait to see some updates on your work.

[jagolden01]

I have to post some progress, small as it is.

This is 35 minutes of cutting! However, I did learn a lot from just these two pieces as to how to cut the rest of the formers.

These are 1/8" thick so they are beefy. Hard to cut but will make for a very sturdy frame.

The two pieces are dry fit as I have to open the slots on the vertical former a little bit wider.

I'm referencing Old Troll's thread of his build of this sub when it was originally released.

[eibwarrior]

Looks great. Nice start. I know the pains of cutting this thick former material. I have a suggestion. After wearing out multiple utility knife blades and wearing out my hands, I found these:

http://www.taiwanhandtools.com.tw/product/images/0815.jpg

They are heavy duty utility scissors for cutting vinyl flooring and the like. Very powerful, and very sharp with serrated edges. They made quick work of the 2 mm card and I suspect they'll handle the 1/8" stuff too. You can pick these up at any Wal-Mart or home improvement store in the flooring section or tool section. Just ask for vinyl flooring scissors.

[jagolden01]

Those look useful! I did pick up another cutter with the snap-off blades. It is somewhat useful but still gobs of work. Other than saving on #11 blades it's still a workout on my hands.

If I can use this type of cutter you show on the slots, that would be a huge help.

Will have the front 1/4 frame completed tomorrow night. I've been saying front third but today realized it's front 1/4!

[eibwarrior]

jagolden, it makes quick work of the slots too. My hands didn't ache afterwards either. Bascially, it's so sharp and spring-loaded that it slices through thick card material like standard scissors through paper. It's that easy.

If I remember correctly, they were about $7 or there abouts. Well worth the investment considering the time saved and hand cramps. In addition, I've used them around the house to snip all kinds of stuff too.

Can't wait to see your next update. Upscale builds are so cool!

[airdave]

Thise Shears are the bomb!...gonna get me some of those!


Jag...front 1/3 LOL ...front 1/4!! ROFL
a little bigger than you thought?!

[jagolden01]

Jag...front 1/3 LOL ...front 1/4!! ROFL
a little bigger than you thought?!


Nah, I knew it would be ~65".
Good thing I didn't go for 1:24!

[jagolden01]

Some more progress...

1) some of the small formers were tight on cutting. I added support strips. The cross supports I cut the corresponding space a little larger to accommodate.

2) surprise! Some of the formers still curved a little while curing even though weighted down. No worry as when put together, the cross sections straighten these out.

3) any fine tips like these I seal up with white glue so they don't shred while handling.

4) The finished front section. It should have (but does not come with) pieces to go in these top gaps other wise the hull plating will cup. I'll add. Will also add a couple towards the bottom since it's a long gap at this scale.
This is 14.875" long, 6.8" tall and weighs in at 1.75 lbs (US).

5) give a good visual of just how thick the formers are.

I'll be laminating the next section of formers tomorrow.

[airdave]

could you take some scraps strips of cardstock or heavy paper,
right angle fold them and glue them in place
to "cap" the corners?

just a thought


and....

couldn't you leave a couple of panels loose?

this sub-frame looks just like a cut-away interior!
you could add bunks, and torpedos and little German sailors!

[eibwarrior]

Not a bad idea airdave. I think that "L" could work.

jagolden, that's great progress. You'll find that the cross formers will straighten out your frames. That should give you a good rib to mount skins to.

Fantastic work, she's starting to take shape.

[cgutzmer]

GREAT! Looks awesome and thanks for the updates :)
Chris

[jagolden01]

could you take some scraps strips of cardstock or heavy paper,
right angle fold them and glue them in place
to "cap" the corners?

just a thought


and....

couldn't you leave a couple of panels loose?

this sub-frame looks just like a cut-away interior!
you could add bunks, and torpedos and little German sailors!

Airdave, good idea on the right angle beams. Could use it on any of the straight spaces. I have to look ahead on this as later on, after the frame is built, there are some additional formers to be inserted that surround the snorkel.

Yeah, size is ideal for doiing some interior. Beyond me though.

[Papercut]

Glad to see you coming along with build. I cut and tried to assemble the complete keel as a single unit like a normal ship build. This proved not to work, but as you are doing, build a section @ a time. Have been busy on other projects, but hope to be back on this build soon, though I will enjoy your's as you build and follow your tips. I too will add stringers to add strength. One area I am looking at is to open up the top torpedo door as if firing a fish. Great start. Rick

[jagolden01]

One area I am looking at is to open up the top torpedo door as if firing a fish. Great start. Rick

Rick, That would look great.
I would like the doors to stand out some more for visual impact. I might cut them out, then reinsert so there's more of a defined edge.

Of topic: everytime I see your avatar it scares me. No word of a lie, with my beard regrown, we could pass for each other.

[airdave]

Rick, That would look great.
I would like the doors to stand out some more for visual impact. I might cut them out, then reinsert so there's more of a defined edge.


I sent you a gift...check your PMs

[Papercut]

Rick, That would look great.
I would like the doors to stand out some more for visual impact. I might cut them out, then reinsert so there's more of a defined edge.

Of topic: everytime I see your avatar it scares me. No word of a lie, with my beard regrown, we could pass for each other.Then you're a good look'in fella. LOL: Rick

[Papercut]

Oh yea, after this time on Forum, I will finish re-cutting the forward frame work out for the sub. Should post photos by tomorrow, finally! What neat gift did you get. I have all four doors as photo etch, you are right, a little attention in this area will make this Hunter of the Sea sing. Looking forward to your next posting.:DRick

[Papercut]

could you take some scraps strips of cardstock or heavy paper,
right angle fold them and glue them in place
to "cap" the corners?

just a thought


and....

couldn't you leave a couple of panels loose?

this sub-frame looks just like a cut-away interior!
you could add bunks, and torpedos and little German sailors!I have thought about your idea to fold/cap the top edge off and looks like a good idea. I may give this a try on my build and add stringers to bottom only.:DRick

[airdave]

yeah, it might not work for curved sections
but for short straight gaps, it could be a quick solution
allowing more time to focus on more difficult areas.

[doctormax]

the colouring looks good going by them pics, the Uboat do just looks to Hard for me to even think of trying at this stage. I think stick to the small items and learn the tips from posts on here before I even think of trying the Uboat. I think there is a site called Uboat.com that may have the different flags or you would think they should. Also I think the Luftwaffe used the same kind of camoflouge on some planes on the Russian front. but not sure as the bit of colour film I seen showing a Luftwaffe base was not so clear..

[jagolden01]

I'm still cutting out the second set of hull formers so I thought this would be an opportunity to share my favorite and most used tools for card modeling.

Head Lamp (top left) - perfect for illuminating exactly what you need.
Spreader/Burnisher (center top) - Favorite tool for laminating parts together. You can apply as much pressure as you need. This one's a little softer than the ones used in auto-body repair and was purchased at an art supply store.
Flash Diffuser (top right) - Strange as it sounds I use these to dim the flash output from my camera. Especially useful for the close-up function. There is a silver/gray top of a KRAFT creme cheese tub. Inside that is the clear top from something else I can't remember.
Glues (bottom left/middle) - Elmer's School Glue. I use the small bottle for applying glue. The LockTite CA glue is indispensable for small parts. It has a long pointed tip. Avery Glue Stick, large. Large size is good for laminating small to medium size pieces. I like the color one so I can see where it's been applied (it disappears). The small version of this brand/purple are terrible as they are so soft the glue sloghs off like pudding - stick with the large version.
Knives (bottom right) - two different grips for #11 blades. The Kobalt with the snap off blades is very good for heavier cuts. I bought this style at the suggestion of Papercut. For heavy cutting it certainly does save on those expensive #11's.
Pin Vise (center) - For holding fine drill bits for making small holes.[/B][/B][/B]

[eibwarrior]

Thanks for sharing jagolden.

The flash diffuser would come in handy for me. I get a lot of photo editing in thanks to color wash out due to flash. It also exaggerates details and colors.

Otherwise, you have a lot of the same stuff as me. Good lamps are indispensable.

[jagolden01]

Second section "complete". There is a mismatch where the rear of the front section (section 1) meets the front of section 2.

Somewhere there is a slight disconnect.
When I dry fitted the second section, the formers that shape the sides were ~1/8" taller than the centerline former. I trimmed them back.

Now, however, that rear section is ~1/8" shorter (in height) than the front section. Hmm. Maybe the centerline former was too short instead of the other formers being to high.

I'll be rechecking the printed templates. I may have to build a new section 2.

[cgutzmer]

airdave is comparing the originals to the ones in his kit.... will let ya know.
Chris

[airdave]

Files/Pages all check out...no scale or size changes occured during the repaint.

I was concerned about certain pages (in the PDF package) having an extra border around the pages.
Did this result in a page scale issue?
No...apparently some pages have a white border and some don't...but the part and page scales are the same.

TIP - make sure when printing PDF pages, that all pages print at the same scale.
Do not allow "fit to page" or any other rescaling to occur.
This way all your printing retains its original sizing.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/676/medium/uboat_pages.jpg

The problems seem to be with the original parts (in Kooklik's original design).
and...Slight size differences in the original scale become bigger discrepancies with this upscaling.
What was only a 1/16" of an inch discrepancy becomes a much more important issue at this new scale!

If theres a way to confirm exactly which parts are slightly under/over size
I could possibly make some adjustments.

My immediate suggestion to a builder is to cut the formers slightly oversize and trim to fit...but this is an annoying recommendation I understand.

Its easy to remind people that this is not "rocket science"...its paper model building! And this type of hobby calls for different levels of flexibilty, tolerance and consideration*

*...but that doesn't help when you are in the middle of building a kit, and trying to build it properly!!

[member_3]

I had absolutely no fit problems with my build of the original. I did all my cuts "on the line" and the hull section joints were dead on.

[jagolden01]

I have gone back through my prints, the original sub pages and the repaint pages. It baffles me that the differences do indeed seem minor, yet the second section of the sub has that considerable difference. The other section join are certainly within normal, expected variance.The skins - well, I'll deal with those when they come up. I know the skins will be tricky and will require massaging to work into place. I'm sure adjustment, some pastels, colored pencil and watercolor will fix problems just fine on those.

With what I have found, I've made notes and marks on the formers for adjustments to be made while building. The skins I'll deal with when the

Do not yell, I'm not an idiot.

Obviously scaling up exaggerates any discrepencies.

I scale up all models I build and have never seen this large a mismatch. Nobi's Kv-II fit beautifully scaled up, as did Mareks Pfalz D_IIIa-Hitschler, Fiddler's Arico Dh-2 and all others). Not a novice. Fit problems are not in any way unique to ship building.

I scale inside Illustrator (most accurate) or Photoshop, depending on the model. Regardless of any borders on a page, all parts, page-to-page, should be the same scale.

I've been using Acrobat and Illustrator 5 days a week since their first release - I'm pretty comfortable with them.

Can I make a mistake - YES!

You are almost correct, I'll further it to say no model building is rocket science. There's always some clean-up, adjustment, etc.

I feel the problems are inherent in the original files. Don't think the repaint has any real bearing.

Finally, to explain what I've said about different file formats being used, check the picture. It's hard to show using a screen shot but I'll try. Former Sheet A is rasterized art. Former Sheet B is made from vector art. Clearly vector art is cleaner and more accurate. Vector art scales up or down without degradation of the output. Raster based art does degrade. Vector=clean, decisive cut lines, raster=stepped lines with guessing.

I'm simply going to move ahead.

[jagolden01]

I had absolutely no fit problems with my build of the original. I did all my cuts "on the line" and the hull section joints were dead on.

Ron, your build is one of a couple I am referencing. Your input on the dishing, the use of supports to fix it, and the advice to not do it around the snorkel is invaluable to avoiding a building mistake that would take a lot of time and patience to fix.

Also, like you, I have always planned to do the railings using paper/board. I like purist as much as possible even if means compromise. Your railings came out great.

[jagolden01]

Second section.
This is my problem section. I'll need to add ~1/8" to the top of this to bring it back into alignment with the others.

During the dry fit, the width formers were ~1/8" taller than the length-wise former. /I trimmed to fit. However, the finished section does not meet up with the first section. It's height ~1/8" short. So, apparently, I should have added a strip to the top of the former and all would have been fine.
Instead, now, at the top, I'll have to add the long strip AND each short one on the side formers. Oh well.

Still don't know what happened though. The length and width formers we scaled and printed s the same time.

[eibwarrior]

That's crazy jagolden. Must be a product of the upscale.

Bad as it may seem, some shimming and cutting will be necessary. Let's hope the skinning goes much better. I have my fingers crossed for you.

[jagolden01]

That's crazy jagolden. Must be a product of the upscale.

Bad as it may seem, some shimming and cutting will be necessary. Let's hope the skinning goes much better. I have my fingers crossed for you.

Funny thing is I expect problems with the skinning.
Because of the scale, I might have to skin each side separately. This could work to my advantage.
If there are some hiccups at the bottom of the hull they will be less noticeable. Aslo, there's that big structure that runs a great length of the hull bottom.

[jagolden01]

Still building. Finished section 3 frame.
Came out well as the others did. It's very solid with the doubled board I'm using.
Still some delicate areas though. I bent the thin section that's cut out for the snorkel. Printed out another section of that former to get the correct angle and glued to one side, then glued a wire piece to opposite side for strength using CA glue.

Dry fit of the 3 completed frame sections. I couldn't find the yardstick so that's a 24" steel ruler in the last photo.

[airdave]

I couldn't find the yardstick so that's a 24" steel ruler in the last photo.

hahaha thats wild!! whats your estimated finished length? about 5 feet? 6 feet? LOL
where will you display this?
does your wife know you play with really big bits of paper?

[jagolden01]

Dave, I figure finished length ~78".

Final resting spot will be in our loft. Before that it will rest on the sofa table in the living/entertainment room so I can enjoy it on a continuous basis.

In the long run, I will consider finding a home for it in a "museum" type atmosphere. Here in Massachusetts we have Battleship Cove which would be a nice place. In Connecticut we have the Groton sub base w/museum. Could be something in Portsmouth, NH also.

[eibwarrior]

Sorry I missed your last update jagolden.

Looks very good. The size is about 4" longer than my Arizona, so I tip my hat to you on the effort. It will take up a bunch of space.

I hope you're right about the skinning. Although I see what you're saying about being able to compensate for fit at the bottom.

[jagolden01]

Thanks, , keep in mind that's an estimate on length, though, could go either way.

This is a long-term project that I'll break up with other models. I really enjoy the building process a lot. Sometimes I only have time for adding one piece of bulkhead, but it doesn't frustrate me. I'm not in a race. There are 3 of this particular sub on build threads currently.

When I do get down to the skinning I'll be taking my time, dry fitting over and over and hemming and hawing.

There's a thread where someone is looking for advice on ship/boat building and there's been a lot of great input.

Definitely time and patience is tops.

I'm just coming to a close on a Ranger Lunar Impactor Probe that I slid in:
http://www.papermodelers.com/forum/pasa-paper-aeronautical-space-administration/4821-ranger-space-probe-block-iii-build-1-12-a.html

Tomorrow I'll start mounting and laminating the Section 4 formers.
I need more illustration board for that.

[jagolden01]

Traveling to my company home office this coming week so there'll be nothing to report until September 10 or so.

Thanks
Joe

[jagolden01]

Section 4 frame complete. I've run out of clean space to lay all the sections out together. Section 5 is well on its' way, so when that's completed, I'll get a complete photo.

I like how items look in their "skeleton" state. I look forward to seeing this sub that way. Still have the superstructure and side tanks to frame out. I'm considering using single thickness of illustration board for these as they are not weight-bearing, but I've got to think about it.
The tanks might be easier to attach if they have some good flex.

[jagolden01]

Section 4 photo.

[eibwarrior]

Looking good and big! Nice work jagolden, it looks like you've worked through some of your earlier fit-up issues.

Fantastic!

[jagolden01]

Here's a dry-fit of section 5's butt end.

The side former fits straight, but the last three vertical formers stick up from the center former.

This may be correct, especially where the side former seems OK, but I'd like to know before committing to glue.

I'll have to test print and dry fit a couple of the skins back there to see how they fit.

Anyone who's built this is free to chime in with observations, please.

[airdave]

You sent me a PM...but I'm thinking its kooklik you are trying to contact?

I'm sorry, I can't help you with this one.
Dave

[jagolden01]

Thanks, Dave. no it was meant for you. Didn't know if you build after the repaint.
Did send to kooklit and oldtroll as well.

It appears to be correct.

[airdave]

Thanks, Dave. no it was meant for you. Didn't know if you build after the repaint.
Did send to kooklit and oldtroll as well.

It appears to be correct.

Unfortunately I just don't have the room for models of this size,
so no, I have not tried to build this one.

The angles and lines between those formers seem to make sense to me visually.

Good luck

[Michael Mash]

I just realized there is a "big" submarine comming together here. I'll have to keep up with this one. Good looking project.
Mike

[member_3]

It looks OK as is based on Kooklik's original build thread on Z*****

[jagolden01]

A small jump here since I haven't yet posted the pictures of the section 5 with the rest of the hull.

Here's the superstructure frame. As with the other formers it fits fine.
I had printed a test sheet of some new paper so I wrapped the nose. It is a dry wrap held on only with tape.

Pieces, dry fit, glued up, dry wrapped nose.

[Michael Mash]

Conning tower looks good. If I am correct, this project should come out to about three feet in length.
Mike

[jagolden01]

Conning tower looks good. If I am correct, this project should come out to about three feet in length.
Mike

Mike, ahem, cough, cough...
The ruler in this picture is 2 feet long - without the last two sections.

[cgutzmer]

WOW! Impressive! :)
Chris

[Michael Mash]

Mike, ahem, cough, cough...
The ruler in this picture is 2 feet long - without the last two sections.

I better to go back to my calculator on that one. I was way off!
Mike

[eibwarrior]

The conning tower looks good and tight. I hope you didn't have any fitup issues with that jagolden. Doesn't look as though you did.

Man, this U-boat is going to be a beast. I'm thinking a 1/72 set of German U-boat figures should be easy to track down. What a great way to accent this model.

[jagolden01]

Thanks guys!

Yes, Eib, it's gonna be a big one. I WILLL get a photo of al five sections laid out for tomorrow.
The parts did fit nice. It's funny though, these were the first parts I couldn't tell how they fit without looking at the directions.

1:32 figures are easy to come by. Not sure about WWII sailors but sub crews, especially the Germans, tended to be a relaxed group so uniform matching and appearance can be off.

[jagolden01]

Section 5, the last aft part of the hull. Still good fitting.

I still could not get a good single shot of all the pieces end-to-end so I had to piece it together. My! It is big.

Will be starting the saddle tanks this weekend. Really enjoying the framing part of this build. Am glad I doubled up on the thickness of the formers, the size really requires it, especially where it's a full hull.

length + 84", give ortake a 1/4" (2.13 meters).

[cjwalas]

This is a great project and it's fascinating watching it grow. I can't even conceive of attempting a paper model this huge, although I love the concept!
your work is truly inspiring on this Herculean effort!
Chris

[Gixergs]

I better to go back to my calculator on that one. I was way off!
Mike
I think the title confused you and you missed the bit where it's being up-scaled to 1/32 for a 1/72 scale U-boat you were right.Great build I love the the U Boats but I think I will have to keep mine a tadge smaller.:)

[jagolden01]

Thanks, CJ. My inspiration for this is eibwarrior's 1/100 Digital Navy USS Arizona, though certainly the sub doesn't have or need that level of intricacy.

Size wise, it's just, well, bigger. Think of it as easier to work with instead of trying to fit your fingers into spots they otherwise can't.
Also the size gives it a presence - you can almost feel yourself as part of it, on it.
Don't think I'll do one this long again but will continue to scale up. There's a Roman Merchant ship out there somewhere that I've seen built and I'd like to tackle that upscale also.

So many others on here have inspired me I'm finally able, in small ways, to give back

[Wyvern]

This is truly impressive!

Wyvern

[Michael Mash]

I think the title confused you and you missed the bit where it's being up-scaled to 1/32 for a 1/72 scale U-boat you were right.Great build I love the the U Boats but I think I will have to keep mine a tadge smaller.:)

You got it Gixergs. Thanks so much. Yes, I was using 1/72 in my calculation. So this project is 1/32 scale! What a monster. (I wondered why the frame pieces looked so thick)
Mike

[jagolden01]

I figured it was just a typo!:)

[jagolden01]

Have been cutting out the frames for one of the saddle tanks.
Silly me! After getting the the frames glued up for the hull, I figured "ah, only the saddle tanks left to frame".
Ya, right. Each saddle tank has about 20 pieces to it, while the average for each hull section was 8.
So let's see, I have A LOT of pieces to cut and glue - still!

OK, ssshhhh. Prozac, Lamictal, Abilify, Xanax - much better now.

[doctormax]

I done a little calculations on how much it would cost to print at the internet cafe near me here. 60 euro and that is just a wild guess on printing the pages for the instructions and they or black and white and that say 60 percent of the parts are colour and could be way wrong. So that rules out my local internet cafe for printing 2.20 for a A4 page in colour by the way. 1.25 for black and white. why i really need to get some money for my newly aquired pay as you go visa card. I found a place i can get the ink for 13 euro for all the four for my printer..

[eibwarrior]

Thanks for the appreciation jagolden. I'm truly inspired by your project as well. Large scale building can be brutal though, so take your time. I won't do another this size for some time. Very big investment in time.

As for printing cost, doctormax brings up a good point. Unless you're willing to do some printing on your home printer and "join" splices, large scale printing is costly. My individual sheets for Arizona run about $12 each in color. The quality was well worth the price though, and no splices. Printing run me close to $300 on Arizona due to the number of sheets and parts.

[jagolden01]

Doctormax does, indeed have some good points. Up to now it's only been b/w sheets for the formers and the one test page for the color.

I have an Epson Stylus Photo 2200 so I can print a 13" x 19" sheet.
The only "drawback" is the printer uses Ultrachrome inks and they work best with certain papers.

I tested a 100# Strathmore Smooth Bristol board. I got a 19" x 34" pad for $17.00 US (on sale) at A.C. Moore crafts. Overall it prints pretty nice. The color is just a tad flat but a gently blast with clear sealer brings it up nicely.

This will be an expensive build by time it's finished, partly because of size, partly because it's worth it. As you say, it's a long term project and will bring countless hours of enjoyment while building it - like any hobby, it's not free.

Many people think paper models are free, cheap, inexpensive, etc., but they're not. Even inexpensive models need paper, ink, glue, heavy board, touch up material, a little of this, a little of that. It adds up.

Guestimated sub build cost so far (US dollars):
Model Files: $14.99 US
Glue: $4.00
Illustration board for formers: $44.00
Paper to print formers on: $1.00
Ink to print formers: $3.00
Spray Adhesive: $8.00

I also purchased the original sub release by mail for ~$29.00.

Like so many of us (I think), I've got more electronic model files and commercial printed/purchased models than I'll ever be able to build.
If this sub takes me a year to build, and costs me ~$200.00 US, I think That's a deal. So much enjoyment for so long for only $200.00. People waste that much on Dunkin Donuts or Starbucks coffee in a month with nothing to show for it.;)

[jagolden01]

Thanks for the appreciation jagolden. I'm truly inspired by your project as well. Large scale building can be brutal though, so take your time. I won't do another this size for some time. Very big investment in time.

Thanks eibwarrior. I am. Building other models as breaks from the sub. Finished the Ranger Block III spacecraft, am building the Pioneer 10 spacecraft and after that I've made the prints for the Thaipapwerwork Skoda Kauba SK P.14.01 Luft 46 concept.

Oh yeah, havin' fun!

[jagolden01]

deleted by jagolden

[jagolden01]

Trimmed out and glued up the Right Hand saddle tank pieces.

Each tank is made up of 19 pieces. Putting them together they are a little fiddly, but in the end glue up nice and strong.
I tacked the formers together with a small drop of CA glue, followed by Elmer's PVA. This works well when the pieces fit a little loose. Mine did because I cut the cross openings a little wider than they should have been.

The long, horizontal formers are two-pieces each, held together with slats.

[Michael Mash]

I still can't get over the thickness of those frame parts. Nice work. What method to you use to cut them?
Mike

[jagolden01]

Mike,

"le' me introduce you to my leetle friens' "

(no offense intended for our South-American speaking members:o)


I use a plain ol' X-Acto with #11 blades and a heavier duty cutter with snap-off blades. The heavy duty cutter was suggested to me earlier in this thread.
With either tool it takes multiple passes to cut through. The HD cutter is great for cutting out the slots!
I've been very reluctant over the years to use the snap off blades, mainly because they do not come to a fine point and I didn't think the snap-offs could stand the strain.
The heavy duty cutter is a Godsend. The blades are sharp, hold an edge very well and the tips rarely break off. It came with 4 leafs of blades, seven tips each I think, and I'm just on the last leaf now with 4 tips left.

This size is not for fine cutting but the size of my formers allowed it for most pieces. It also alleviates some of the strain on my fingers and hands.
I'm actually contemplating getting the smaller size with snap-off blades for medium to small work, and saving the #11 X-Acto's for fine work. Certainly a money saver.

[jagolden01]

I had to start plating somewhere so I picked the conning tower as looking the easiest.
This is my first model with formers and skins.

All of the hull and the majority of the saddle tanks have strips applied to them to make a wider spot to attache the edges of the skins to. Smart move to allow for possible misalignment. Oddly, the conning tower has no such provision so I went ahead and added them myself. The skins are going down nicely but even with the added length from the additional glue strips thatere was some minor trimming at some edges.

Started dead center front and worked each side down separately. Not seen in the pictures is the skin that is applied around the sides and bottom of the lower Wintergarden. Not only does the skin have to fit around a curved inward angle, it also has to twist from the inward angle out to straight up-and-down.
I mention this not because it was difficult to apply (it wasn't). I say it as a kudo to kooklit to be able to design a piece that fits so well around many angles and reverse twists. Even with the use of CAD, I think the fit on this piece is amazing. For those of you who have the model, it's part Y4.

I dry-fitted the decking in place to see how it fit (nice and snug!) and how it looked. Very nice.
I'm going out on a limb and saying I am seriously contemplating laying down individual "wood" strips on the deck. The models certainly big enough for that and it would look great. Would like to find some nice solid color (through the paper) scrap-booking paper that could be cut into strips. Sure, real wood strips would be better.

I did insert some strips along the indside bottom to alleviate some of the cupping that naturally occurs. Keep in mind I'm using 100# Bristol board-that's pretty thick as it is!

[airdave]

the colours printed out nice and the logo on the tower doesn't look bad either.
I was a little worried about colour wash out at this scale, but its looking okay so far.

I re-did the deck planking colours, but your idea of a real wood sounds nice.
Wouldn't balsa strips do the trick?

or else, you could print a sheet of woodgrain and make some planks.

Keep in mind, in my search for reference material, I found that the original "wood" was extremely weathered gray planking...not a nice looking woodgrain at all. Maybe they started with well dried lumber to avoid any wood issues.

[Michael Mash]

Very interesting hearing your description of your work with part Y4. Hulls are known for parts like that. They can be very tricky. From the images, it appears as if everything is comming together nicely. I like your idea of the real wood for the deck. You might be blazing a new trail with that one.
Mike

[jagolden01]

Thanks, guys!

Mike, Airdave, Right, the deck boards would be quite weathered, even if they'd been well sealed before leaving the docks.
I'd prefer to use paper/card as it wold give me more control over what it looks like. I could easily find a weathered wood photo to use for the background, then overlay with some more tricks in Photoshop. I have no problem with the repaint color of the decking, the hand-laying simply came to mind as a way to add more detail to this scaled up version.

I was a little concerned about washout also, not because of the repaint, but because of the stock and ink combo. It worked out well. The conning tower is much more weathered than the rest of the boat because of exposure.
I did test print of some pieces before commiting to this stock and I'm happy with it. A quick spray of sealer also help bring it up a hair.

The symbol on the sides looks fine in the photos but does suffer from the scale-up. It's good enough to live with but I am going to re-draw at higher resolution. It's odd because the rest of the graphics look great.

I am excited. With the winter months closing fast this will be nice during the cold days ahead.

I appreciate all your comments and thoughts!

Joe

[B-Manic]

Your super sub is really looking good. Have you thought of using a nice wood grain and converting it to gray scale then back to RGB. Then you could tint it to whatever shade you want and cut it into planks. Here are two samples of weathered teak. They are from the deck of HMCS ORIOLE. She sees lots of exposure to sea, sun and wind.

[eibwarrior]

Nice start on the conning tower jagolden. I think the clarity of print has stood up well to this upscale. That's very reassuring.

The fitup issues will pop up every now and then, but I think you've done very well in overcoming the ones that have popped up already.

Great work.

[jagolden01]

B-Manic, that decking looks really nice. Haven't decided on the method yet - paper or real wood.
I will check out two good local sources for wood, but still think paper gives me the most control.

eibwarrior, thanks. Other than the frame issue I had with section 2 of the hull (never could figure out what happened) all the parts have fit very well. Because of the #100 bristol, they'll be some adjustments but as others that have built this have pointed out, the fit is excellent.

Going to be traveling and busy next couple of weeks. probably won't be able to post until end of the month.

[jagolden01]

Back from vacation!

Started the decking on the conning tower. Found a sample of weathered wood planks I really liked. Dup'ed it up in PhotoShop. Cut the strips and laid down.

It's going to be a lot of work but think it looks good and ads to the model.

The difference between the printed deck and the hand-laid deck can clearly be seen. The top piece (printed deck) is only dry-fit in position. I'll remove to apply the decking to that piece.

Last photo shows a section of the decking file.

[Michael Mash]

Very interesting. That third image really does show some weathered decking.
At this scale, it should add a lot of authenticity. Nice work, and welcome back from vacation.
Mike

[eibwarrior]

That's a tremendous difference jagolden. I love that realistic deck. I would love to do this on a big BB someday.

The attention to detail at this size can't be understated, and you're doing a wonderful job.

[airdave]

This is looking nice...

I'd like to point out, that I 'repainted" the decking in Kooklik's original using some actual weathered wood planks and it made quite an improvement over the original soild colour "planking"...I didn't go overboard with a vibrant woodgrain because all the historical photos showed extremely grayed, weathered planks.

Your successful efforts to improve the planking even further, made me curious as to the amount of change over my repaint...so I opened up the "repaint" files and took a look.

There is no "real wood" planking in my "repaint"...no wood planking in any of my U-boat repaint files...no wood planking in my design files for these repaint projects...no wood planking anywhere!!
LOL
It would appear that somewhere along the line (there were so many steps in creating the necessary files), my "new" planking layers got deleted or misplaced and were never included in the final output.
Its so easy to misplace something like this during such a big project...

I apologize for this error (even though nobody would have known about my mistake if I didn't reveal this, lol)
and applaud you for adding a much needed element.

Is there anyway you can release the wood planking layer, after it is edited...for anyone else who might be building this kit?

[jagolden01]

Mike, eibwarrior and Dave, Thanks for the kind words! For a minute I thought it might be too much work but it's not. The look and physical feel of it are nice. I like the slight mismatch and/or "warped" boards.

Dave, The planking is not a layer that I added, They are cut-out strips laid piece by piece.
As to the planking PhotoShop file, I would if it were mine, but I grabbed the initial photo from somewhere on the web so I don't own the rights to it.

[Michael Mash]

[QUOTE=jagolden01;84369]
..........The planking is not a layer that I added, They are cut-out strips laid piece by piece.

I missed that part when I took a look at this the other day, even though you clearly mentioned it. Outstanding! Perhaps when you get a chance you could get another image of this. I have not seen planking done this way.
Mike

[Papercut]

Really like the planking. I think you are on the right track to show that paper models can exhibit the different textures of the materials the craft was constructed from. And it looks cool too.:)Rick

[jagolden01]

Started on the hull this weekend.

The first step I wanted to take was to devise a way to hold the sections together. At this large scale (and IMO, even the original scale), I think more secure way to join the sections will ensure long-term survivability.

I decided to peg the sections together with wood dowels.
Made a little template to help get the holes in the same place from section to section. This worked fair as can be seen in the photo.

Next, drilled the holes with a standard drill and a 3/8" blade drill bit. It doesn't drill neatly but that's OK - it gives more gripping area and nooks and crannies for the glue.

Cut the pegs and inserted. Secured with Elmer's wood glue. The little paper glue tabs that are part of the original formers I secured using quick-setting epoxy.

It sure doesn't look look good, but it's certainly strong - as it needs to be. Will all be covered over anyway.

[Michael Mash]

This is heavy duty construction.
Nice job.
Mike

[jagolden01]

Heavy duty, indeed, Mike. Want this sucker to stay together!:)

Have started some of the plating. With the large scale-up there are minor fit issues. I am ale to keep graphics aligned but there may be a small slit or gap. Thank God for the wide glue strips. Between those and a matching green Prismacolor colored pencil everything looks natural.

In order to give me more room for adjustment and fitting (again, because of the scale), I am attaching the plating for each side individually instead of wrapping around the bottom the way the files are set up. This is working very well.
The seam at the bottom will be fine-tuned partly per section and after all sections are pegged together. I expect a little rubbing and mis-match on the bottom of the keel would have been normal on a real sub. Also, there's a structure that runs about 3/4 the length of the sub on the keel so this will help hide any problems there.

The circles items shows where I have not glued down the last section of plating from the opposite side of the sub. Not a mistake.

The last photo showing the port(?) side only has the first two plates on it.
The next plates are more work as they hold the indent for the anchor - more pieces.
I've roughly painetd the inside of some of the frame black so the white does not show through the drain holes.

[Michael Mash]

Looking good.
Nice detail on those hull plates.
Mike

[jagolden01]

I finally had to tackle what I'd been avoiding - the depression for the anchor.
It looks difficult to do do and I did not want a mess on my hands.

Used a number of small tabs to hold the 2 parts together. They fit nicely and the colors on the opposite side match up very well.

After some dry fitting, I glued the part to the inside of the upper skin. Added the tabs before glueing.

I did another dry fit, taping the upper skin with the part, to the lower skin using light-tack Scotch masking tape. The last photo shows the fit. Pretty good!

[jagolden01]

Attached the two pieces with the anchor depression in place on the frame and it still looks good. I'm really tickled pink over this. Added a number of other skins as well.
As noted previously, the overall fit is very good despite the scale-up.
The sinning is slow going as there is the need to add all the frame tabs as directed and I need to add frame tabs to the keel because I am skinning one side at a time. Also, cutting out all the slots is time consuming. Yes, a screw punch would speed things up but I just don't have the money at this point.
The opposite photo shows there's still plenty to do on the other side of the frame. No rush.

The one thing I find is that the weathering does not match piece to piece. If you look at the photo with the most skins attached, the skins closest to the nose are very heavily weathered. The next sections less so until the last is lightly weathered. I'll have to even out all the weathering with paints and chalks upon completion of the hull.
There is some very slight discrepency in the background gray also, but this should even out a little when I seal the hull.

[airdave]

The one thing I find is that the weathering does not match piece to piece. If you look at the photo with the most skins attached, the skins closest to the nose are very heavily weathered. The next sections less so until the last is lightly weathered. I'll have to even out all the weathering with paints and chalks upon completion of the hull.
There is some very slight discrepency in the background gray also, but this should even out a little when I seal the hull.


One thing I notice is that there are certain sections of Hull plating that have more seams and rivets...so these areas will have more rust and weathering stains.

Personally I didn't alter the weathering layers to any significant degree...but i will definately go and look at my files, and make sure I didn't accidentally omit a layer when resaving my edited pages. (Its very easy to "visually turn off" a layer in the multi-layered artwork and then save the file without turning that layer back "on")

I do notice a slight colour difference in your "skins" and this could be a result of the weathering differences, or the result of small colour glitch on my part or slight discrepancies in file saving...but lets imagine that the boat suffered some damage and had a "refit" of panels and paint in those areas!?

[jagolden01]

Dave,

I'm not complaining, just making the observation.
The North Sea camo version is so nice. The color ads a lot and I've seen this scheme used. Looks great and the display will be impressive

No matter what, the boat should look "used and abused", hell, it's a war vessel. AND, by time I'm done with touching up my mistakes they'll be a certain "Mad Max" aspect to it, I'm sure. With cutting out all the slots and painting the back surface black, sometimes a little paint gets around the cut-out - I dab off what I can then smear down the rest in the direction of the other weathering.

The color thing is hard. There's layers, files, scaling-up, one printer vs. another, day of the week, sunspots, blue moons, scorpio in retrograde, etc.

I had the middle section pegged on over the weekend to align the pegs before glueing. I can't wait to get more of the skinning done.

[jagolden01]

To say this is going to be huge is not quite covering it.

[Michael Mash]

Hello Jagolden:
You can declare success with the anchor depression.
The "weathering" does not look bad at all in the images.
(understanding of course, you get to see it up close with the naked eye)
Mike

[jagolden01]

Mike, thanks! Sometimes I drag my feet when I feel something may not come out well.

The weathering doesn't look bad. I will even out a little. As Dave said, less rivets and jumps translates to less drips, smears and drags.
The work to recolor this must have been very difficult. Even with the naked eye it looks fine, i was simply making a comment on the build (which is what the builds are about). I probably should of waited until the end of the build to point out the notice so I could show right away my adjustment.

If there's another completed build of this version I'd love to see it as it could be a great help.

[jagolden01]

No new photo's yet as it would just be more skins added.

Couple of modeling observations though.
I finally broke down and bought a screw punch! OMG it's wonderful. Didn't want to spend the $25 but looking at all the vents I still had to cut out I bought it. Speeds up the process at least 5x and makes the cut out so neat! I can see why folks that have them are so enamored of them.
No snickering, mine's a Martha Stewart brand.

Secondly, in the past I haven't been as conservative as I could be with my supplies. That's quickly changed with the last two models. The Bristol board stock I'm using is expensive so virtually nothing goes in the trash. Using the "Custom size" settings on my printer, I create a paper size for whatever fits - 10" x 1-", 8" x 19" - whatever I have handy. This might not be a revelation to others to use the custom page size but it was a bit of an epiphany for me!

Third relates back to the above. If I couldn't get something to fit on a 13" x 19" sheet I'd split it across two sheets. But, again, using the "custom page" sizing, I can set the printer to print up to 13" x 40" - very useful.

I'll post some pictures next week. With the first two sections skinned, it's really looking like a submarine. I'm skinning the middle section now. There are two very large skins on it that are unwieldy (even at the published scale I'd think) so I'm working on wrestling them into proper position. Exciting to see it start to take shape.

[eibwarrior]

Wow jagolden. I haven't checked your progress in a while. Very good work on the hull plating. I love the work you're doing here. Very clean fitup and no visual flaws.

I like the weathering affect in the printing. That's a nice touch that gets big and I mean big attention at this scale. It will come off nice once you go back and touch up even more.

[jagolden01]

Thanks, eibwarrior! It's moving along though I keep taking breaks from it and modeling in general.

The pictures hide some things but I am pretty happy with the plating. As I've said, this is my first boat so it's a learning experience.

Airdave did a fine job on the repaint with the weathering and camouflage. It really is impressive when the parts come together.

I'm building the hull in 3 sections - 2 fore, 1 middle and 2 aft - for the total of five. I figure my biggest problems will be where they come together, but I'm sure I'll solve them fine. The scale up does exaggerate even the smallest discrepancy.

Very soon I'm going to have to build a cradle to hold it while I work on it. I figure some wood end panels with a cut-out, long side strips to connect and a sling made of cloth and soft foam.

[jagolden01]

Dry-fit of sections 1, 2 and 3. It's about 49" at this point.
The peg system works well to hold the sections together. A bit of a gap between sections 2 and 3. I'll patch it. The little extra length this creates means I'll have to color some around the ends of the saddle tanks.
Looking good though.

Will be building that cradle to hold it while working this coming weekend.

I may go back to the conning tower for a change. The skinning is a little tedious.

[Michael Mash]

It is looking impressive. As it gets nearer to full length, that cradle may become a necessity. I find it hard to build a ship without one, and none of mine come anywhere near the size of this one.
Mike

[jagolden01]

Didn't have time to build the cradle as planned so I moved back to the conning tower.

Don't know what all the pieces are. The first part is a big box structure on the starboard (?) side of the tower. It goes under the radar so it might house electronics and hydraulics for it.
I made thick former so it would set up firmly and keep shape.

The next part I tackled was the top "plate" that caps everything within the tower opening. Because I had some warping of the tower sides, I needed something that would do more than edge glue or even tab glue.
Using the floor plate as a template, I cut a thick inner frame to glue to the underside of the top plate (pics 1 & 2).

Pics 3 & 4 show the top and bottom plates connected using the side inserts. I used the sides from the 2008 publics of the sub as they were colored and added some "splash". The sides in the "North Sea Camo" release are gray.
These were just glue-ups. Nothing fancy.

Picture 5 shows the completed "tub" being glued into the tower. The inner frame I created for the top worked great, giving something to hold and glue against.

Pics 6 & 7 shoe the completed glueing. The tub fits snug-as-a-bug-in-a-rug.
I've also added the pieces for gluing the wave deflector to.
The inner form blocks the opening for the radio loop. I'll color that opening black before adding the antenna.

[birder]

Wow this is a cool model J:)

[Barry]

Fine piece of building

[jagolden01]

Thanks, guys. With those pieces installed, the tower now looks solid.
As soon as I get the wave deflectors on I'll do the edge coloring.

[Michael Mash]

Good looking conning tower piece taking shape, and many great images.
Mike

[Clashster]

Looks great! Clean and neat! Looking forward to seeing more!

[Papercut]

Conning tower turned out nice jagolden01. You are moving right along. I hope to finish up the frame this weekend and start filling in the shape of the hull w/05mm card. This will be what the skins are applied too. I too as you have built the hull frame as one complete piece. This to me keeps all if the hull parts aligned and true to each other before covering. Look forward to more from ya.:DRick

[jagolden01]

Thanks folks! It does move along pretty well.

I did not connect all of the frame sections together before covering.

I am building it as Sections 1&2 glued, Section 3 individually, section 4&5 glued. At this scale, even that is a little unwieldly.

I'm enjoying the pace, though I'd like to pick it up a bit. Unfortunately, even though it's only Dec 8, Seasonal Affective Disorder seems to be arriving early for me - working hard to stave it off 'till late jan-early Feb.

[airdave]

I think I am gonna try attaching all the sections
and then skinning the whole thing.
(but of course my sub is a quarter of the size of yours!!)

I have thought about it and as long as I try to keep all skins in line
it shouldn't matter either way...?

[jagolden01]

Folks, airdave is building the "tiger" camo repaint of this sub at approx 1:108 scale.
Check it out:
http://www.papermodelers.com/forum/ships-watercraft/6413-attack-tiger-u-boat-build-kooklik-repaint.html


Dave, I'd think the skinning would be fine with all sections together for you.

[airdave]

Dave, I'd think the skinning would be fine with all sections together for you.

lol actually not!...I will explain in my build thread.



while some glue was drying last night, I jumped ahead and started assembly of the Conning Tower.
Only did the subframe so far...but your photos here are going to be invaluable!
I sat looking at the instructions and to be honest I was a little lost.
Its amazing what a couple of photos can do for you though!

[Papercut]

Here is a question for both jagolden01 and airdave, when you cut the formers for the frame work, did you keep the line drawing, that's the black ink line that outlines the part, or did you sand down until the mark was gone? The reason I ask is for some reason, my skins do not align as your has, ie: main skin f/Conning tower does not reach from side to side at the up-right part #15. Now the skin is listed as part Y-1, but there is two more parts that is listed as Y-1a right/left. But no description as to where they go! And I did not see or here either of you mention these parts. jagolden01, went back and looked @ your photos and the Y-1 skin fit to former and mated up to part Y-5. Mine has about a 1/8th gap?????? When I built the frame, I cut and sanded right up-to the line, but left it. I am going to take apart and resand the frame to remove the lines and this does not fix, this one will go on the self.:eek:Rick

[airdave]

Mine is of course reduced in scale, so my answer may not be the same as jagolden...

I am not that accurate with my cutting.
I'm usually lucky just to be near the lines when cutting!

In this case, the card is thin enough that I can cut all the curves with my small scissors.
I only cut straight lines with a metal straight edge and knife.

Because my printing is so small and the line thicknesses are so thin,
it would be extremely hard for me to choose which side of the line to cut on.
In fact my knife blade is probably just as wide as the line!

So since I try to follow the lines while cutting,
I would bet my parts are cut on the line,
probably closer to inside the line.

Since I haven't gotten to the skinning of the Conning Tower yet,
I can't directly answer the question with regard to those parts, sorry.

If I see obvious problems, I will post and try to offer up a fix.
If your fixes don't work, please post some pics in this regard and maybe I can make some mods?
maybe offer up some adjusted parts?

[Papercut]

Thanks for the info. I agree, the print size does make a difference as to the width of the line drawing.:DRick

[jagolden01]

Despite the great engineering on this model by kooklit, it's funny how we all have some problems no matter the scale.;)

Rick, when I cut out my formers I tried to split the line. I only lightly sanded some spots if there seemed to be a bump. ALSO even though not called for, I added wide strips to the edges of the conning tower formers in the same way as the ones that go on the hull formers. Glad I did. Even though the skins fitted the tower well, it gives more area to glue to and helps hold off the formers edges showing through.

On the conning tower, the Y-1 skin was almost dead on. I trimmed about 1/32" off the length. With the size gap you've got, my suggestion would be to get that page into illustrator or photoshop and stretch it to the length you need. Before doing that, though, You might tape Y-1 in position and see how well the parts that attach to it fit.
I'd at least split the line. Over the length of wrapping Y-1, I could see a considerable gap resulting even with just a little added thickness.
I'd also suggest that when the part fits to your liking, you attach part Y-28 to part Y-1 BEFORE attaching to the formers.

Yes, the Y-1 + Y1a-R,L is confusing. It has something to do with attaching parts to sub-assemblies. Kooklit talks his naming convention in one of the intro documents (BeforeGettingStarted.pdf) - it doesn't always work well.

[airdave]

well, I hope you don't mind me posting this here, but since we are all on this topic, i have a couple of questions regarding this conning tower...

(in the following pic)
top pic ...shows how I have already attached Y4 to the structure.
and to attch Y1, I should have installed the right and left Y1A!
I understand this now, and you can see how I ended up with a joiner strip that I made.

bottom pic... y1 will not stretch all the way around and meet up with Y4 on both sides.
Its just not long enough.
It won't cover the vertical former of the inner structure, should it?
(I have tried shaving down the former structure, but I would have to remove a lot of material.
Is Y1 undersized?

and, as you can see, I did not attach Y4a to Y4...but I don't understand what it does? (I have indicated it as "1A"...this should be Y4a)
where exactly does it fit and in what orientation?
are the tabs for the deck to sit on top of?


http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/728/attack_tiger_build_23.jpg

please substitute "Y4a" for "1A" in the above picture

[jagolden01]

So that's what Y-1aR,L look like! Silly me, I was looking ON THE Y SHEET!

As shown in the photo, skins Y-4 and Y-1 should meet and split the difference where they meet on former G-15.

Y-4a - don't even understand where it goes, much less which way is up. For me, this will be "unused parts". From the directions, it looks like Y-3 goes at the top to fill the gap.

Part Y-1 does need to go all the way around to meet Y-4. To avoid the work and worry of shaving down the formers, my best suggestion is to bring the page into a drawing or painting programs and make it a little longer. Before doing that, though, You might tape Y-1 in position and see how well the parts that attach to it fit, such as the parts that make up the "interior" on top of the tower.

[airdave]

I did a little more shaving and sanding and I am able to get part Y1 to stretch and butt up to Y4
...so it looks like the fit is close, its probably the inner structure being slightly oversize..
A grey joiner strip will help hide the connection.

But on larger scale and increased scale models like yours,
I would think this gap can be really exaggerated
and rather than upsize that one part, I might consider downsizing the inner structure parts (maybe 1 or 2%)


anyway...part y4a...
I think I have figured it out:
it caps the top of Y4, and creates the lip edge/transition from the angled side to the decking.
I would guess that the angled tabs go to the top to allow for the curved attachment to the deck floor.

but I may have made a mistake here...I have kept the top edge of Y4 flush with the top of the former parts
and maybe its the top edge of Y4a that should be flush?
(so I should have assembled Y4 and Y4a first and then attached flush at the top?)

jagolden, in that last photo you attached, you can see the gap between the side panel Y4 and the deck floor.
this gap would be filled by part Y4a

[jagolden01]

jagolden, in that last photo you attached, you can see the gap between the side panel Y4 and the deck floor.
this gap would be filled by part Y4a

And does Y3 go over that? The instructions seem clear the Part Y3 covers that gap?

Joe

[airdave]

And does Y3 go over that? The instructions seem clear the Part Y3 covers that gap?

Joe


right! I didn't get that far...but I see it now.

Y3 is the coloured visible edge strip that covers the exposed section of Y4a.

Y4a is the "bridge" between the deck U21 and the side panel Y4.

(I decided to dismantle my Conning Tower and try again since I haven't gone too far yet.
I will rebuild it tonight and try to post some pics tomorrow.)

[jagolden01]

I've been wanting to strengthen the edges of the hull plating and eliminate the cupping for some time.
They are weak spots while building and are begging to be damaged.

Kooklit does supply some bracing pieces in the kit but I wanted to do it this way. I will have to make allowances and additional cuts to go around the snorkel box.

I've put the braces in everywhere I can and they look/work great.

On some edges, the paper had stretched so they were more warped than cupped. In these cases a gap would be left even with the brace inserted.
I used a block of foam board against the outside, taped in place to produce the pressure to hold in place until all had dried. This worked very well.

[Michael Mash]

Hello Jay:
You get high marks for your ability to improvise.
A little imagination always comes in handy.
Mike

[Yu Gyokubun]

I didn't even think of foam and tape method that must be a reliable one. I'll give it a try. Thank you for sharing a tip

[airdave]

haha that would have worked for mine too! lol

[Papercut]

Impressive, very impressive. Look forward to more of this build.:DRick

[jagolden01]

I didn't even think of foam and tape method that must be a reliable one. I'll give it a try. Thank you for sharing a tip

I use a low/medium tack tape so it doesn't disturb the paper.

Made by Scotch-3M. Scotch-Blue Painters Tape for Multi-Surfaces.

[eibwarrior]

Great idea on the braces jagolden. Lookin' good!

Happy New Year!

[jagolden01]

Spring is here so it's time to take up the sub again. There's so much more to build this is certainly a long term project.

It's been so long I've got to figure out where I am and my next steps.

It is time to join section 1 and 2 to section 3. When I test fit it, there is a large gap between the pieces. With the big enlargement I did and my inexperience at laying skins I'm not surprised. But I'm OK with the things I'll have to do to make it all work for me.

Well, there are little tines at the aft end of bulkhead 2 where it joins to 3. This gives me a little wiggle room. By trimming down these tines it gives me a much better fit all the way around. It will be a little tighter when epoxyed together. It's not perfect but for my skills (or lack of-especially with boats) I'm happy!

[Michael Mash]

Hello Jay,
She is underway! It will be good to watch your progress again.
Mike

[airdave]

aaaah the "lets enlarge the model and enlarge the errors at the same time" syndrome!

haha...its good to see you back at this!
it has been a long time...I can barely remember some of my Uboat build.

yes, this model requires some very precise fitting of parts and panels
and as you work your way to the rear any misaligned parts or fit issues become more and more exaggerated.
I rushed my build considerably and I remember I had a heck of a time with the final few skins at the stern of the boat.

this is me, keenly watching again

[eibwarrior]

Glad to see you back on the U-Boat jagolden. I've been eager to see you get back into her.

Hey, don't sweat those allignment issues. It comes with the enlargement territory. You'll have to cut some heavy formers here and there, and modify parts by test fitting. It's all a part of this large scale game. I'm confident you will get the hang of it quickly.

[jagolden01]

Finally starting to close in on having the hull skinned.
Sorry for lousy photo, the good camera broke last week. Trying to track a replacement down on eBay.

This aft and is fitting pretty well - better than amidships. i thought with all the fancy curving it would be more difficult. Of course, I'm not quite finished yet.
There are certainly "problems" caused by the enlargement and my inexperience but I'm satisfied and simply going to work along. I think when completed (eventually) it will look good. At least won't make any dogs bark!:p

[eibwarrior]

Looks like pretty good match-up on the seams to me. The dark gray does help to conceal a few issues. That's always good. Good work with the edge coloring and other little things will help it to look seamless.

I think you're doing a real expert job there jagolden. Keep up the good work.

[jagolden01]

Just catching up...
Thanks eibwarrior, the kind words are appreciated. Need all I can get for this project :p. Yes the dark gray hides a lot! Also, there's a Storm Gray craft paint that matches very nicely for some touch-ups. I did find a spot on one of the formers (on the top luckily) where it is not cut out properly at all, I'll have to shave and sand down.

Finished the overall skinning. Considering the odd shapes in the area I think it looks good. The are spots that will need some patch or other fill to hide some glitches but that's OK.

I'd like to attach all three sections (as I built it) of the hull to get a good idea of the size and scope but will probably start work on the decking. Back when I did all the work on the Conning Tower, I glued individual planks for the deck there, so i pretty much have to continue that way. With this size, that will be a long and tedious process - akin to doing road wheels for a tank.

[OhioMike]

Any updates on this work of art?

[jagolden01]

Any updates on this work of art?

Mike, sad to say the project is canceled. I've pretty much shut down on the paper modeling, though I still follow the forum.

[airdave]

That is sad to hear...

I won't pry,
I'll just say it is unfortunate for us all not to see anymore of your work.

[Michael Mash]

Sorry we won't see your submarine finished Jay.
Perhaps someday?
Mike

[jagolden01]

After more than a year of not building, I am giving thought to restarting Kooklit's sub from scratch.

To make a long story short, the original build pieces are all gone. During a deep bipolar episode I decided I just could not finish it and discarded the completed work in the dumpster. This can really suck at times. I'm a little surprised that I feel well enough to want to build anything - must be running a little manic. (You know, the world is bipolar - yuk, yuk).

If I restart, I will build it at 1:48 scale instead of the huge 1:32 the previous build was. It was a little too large for the work area I have. Also, the smaller scale-up will help keep any fitting problems caused by the scaling less noticeable.

I really enjoyed working on the model when things were good and hope this time around I will be able to finish it, even if I have to take breaks from it.

Now if I can just find those files. If not, I'll have to purchase from Ecardmodels again.

[jagolden01]

OOPS, one question already. Can someone tell me the scale up from 1:72 to 1:48?

I's appreciate it.

Thanks

Joe

[Ober Freak]

Just calculate 72/48 -> 3/2 -> 1.5 so u got 150% to scale up from 72 to 48 scale.

[jagolden01]

Just calculate 72/48 -> 3/2 -> 1.5 so u got 150% to scale up from 72 to 48 scale.

Thanks, Marco!

[OhioMike]

Looking forward to this. I was ready to start mine but then i did the calculation on ink and decided smaller projects go further right now!

[jagolden01]

I've been working on the sub.
I've got the formers and strips for the first section (forward) completed.
Next, I'll move on to the recess for the anchor and the skinning of the section.

It's amazing how much smaller this is than my original 1:32 build attempt. Definitely more manageable.

I'm going to try to follow the instructions closer this time. Building the section frame, then skinning them, before moving on to the next section. I think this will give me more feeling of accomplishment as I go along.
Small or fragile details will be left to the end as long as possible. For example, the first section has you building the diving planes on to the finished section. I think these are rather delicate and could be damaged in handling so I'll leave these for a while later. I may build and test fit them, but wait 'to attach.

Sorry for the grainy photos. For the time being I'm using my phone to take them.

Joe

[jagolden01]

Skinned the first section. Still needs some more edge touch-up.
Skins went on pretty nice. They line up perfectly at the back end but they do seem to overhang a little.

[Paperwarrior]

Looking great thus far, Joe. You're doing the 1/48th Scale right? How thick are the formers at this scale?

As for the photos....what grainy?

Jeff

[jagolden01]

Looking great thus far, Joe. You're doing the 1/48th Scale right? How thick are the formers at this scale?

As for the photos....what grainy?

Jeff

Jeff, thanks. It's moving along well. Tonight I'll work on the formers for section 2. Forgot how much work on the hands it is cutting them out.

For the formers, I'm laminating a 64# printed sheet to Staples brand illustration board. There's no thickness called out on the board but as close as I can measure the two together, the thickness is approximately .03" (or 1/16") thick.
It works out perfectly to the scaled up cut-outs.

Usually for the photos I'd use my good camera but need to locate an extra card for it to use just for the model build.

[Zathros]

That's really nice looking!! Build it section by section, and if you tire of it, throw it in a box and then you can pick up on it when you feel like. That's how real subs go together anyways! :)

[jagolden01]

Last night and early morning progress. Man, my fingers hurt from the former cutting. My index finger and thumb are actually swollen.

I am happy with how these frames are turning out. They're nice and straight and the edges meet where they should. also, the top, where the deck will eventually be applied is nice and even. Definitely learned a lot from the previous build attempt.

Before I can add the skin strips and skins, I'll have to cut up some more stock. for the skins I'm using a Strathmore Smooth Bristol board, 100#. This is the same I used on the previous larger attempt but it is working out great on this 1:48 scale. It is very firm, hard skin, but still workable.

[jagolden01]

Sorry, forgot the photos!

[jagolden01]

I've been searching out information on the TypeVIIC. Here is some basic information I found at uboataces.com.


Type VII U-Boat
First launched in June 1936, the Type VII was not the best submarine in any particular aspect, but it was the most successful of the war and formed the backbone of the U-boat force. Like many other military designs, the original Type VII was quickly modified to provide longer range, better performance and revised armament. These additional variants resulted in an improved torpedo attack boat (VIIC), minelayer (VIID), supply boat (VIIF) and other variants such as Flak and repair boats.

There were several reasons which contributed to the selection of the Type VII as the main workhorse of the U-boat force. Technically, the Type VII had the necessary range, sea worthiness, armament, and maneuverability suitable to conduct a trade war in the North Atlantic. In order to build sufficient numbers in a war situation, the Type VII also had to be relatively cheap and quick to build. The number of sailors required to man the boat also had to be comparatively small. Crew habitability, however, was very low on the priority list.

Beyond the technical aspects, Naval policies also had an influence in the selection process. Under the Anglo-German Naval Agreement, Germany was allowed to construct submarines up to 35 percent tonnage of that of the Royal Navy. This figure was later increased to 100 percent. Since the Type VII was a medium-tonnage boat, this meant that more could be built under the existing tonnage restrictions.

A total of 709 Type VII U-boats of all variants were built during the war – this was more than any other submarine built by any other nation. There were seven main variants, Type VIIA, VIIB, VIIC, VIIC/41, VIIC/42, VIID and VIIF.

General Specification
All Type VIIs were attack boats with a single-hull design – which is to say the pressure hull is also the outer hull. To withstand sea water pressure up to a crush depth of 250 meters, the pressure hull was further reinforced with strengthening steel ribs inside the hull. Ballast was provided by several ballast tanks situated internally and externally of the pressure hull. The main tank was just below the control room, inside the pressure hull. Outside the pressure hull, external tanks were fitted at the bow and stern. These tanks however did not provide sufficient capacity, so additional saddle tanks were fitted to the sides of the hull. Diesel fuel tanks were situated inside the pressure hull to avoid leakages during a depth charge attack. The earliest variants were also fitted with serrated net cutters on the bow, a specification carried over from World War 1 boats, but these were quickly discontinued.

In order to keep the development line intact, I've included some info on the Type VIIB U-Boat:

Type VIIB
An improved version of the Type VIIA, the VIIB had a slightly lengthened hull and larger saddle tanks. This enabled a bigger fuel capacity which increased the range from 4,300nm to 6,500nm. Superchargers were fitted to the diesel engines, increasing surface speed by about 1 knot. Torpedo capacity was also increased from 11 to 14 torpedoes – two were stored externally in pressure tight containers underneath the upper deck. To improve on maneuverability and the turning radius, twin rudders were fitted directly behind the propellers. This new twin rudder arrangement allowed the single stern torpedo tube to be brought inside the pressure hull, making internal reloads at sea possible. On the Type VIIA, the stern torpedo tube was situated externally, and could be reloaded only at port.

A total of 24 Type VIIBs were commissioned.

Type VIIC
The Type VIIC retained the same characteristics of the VIIB except that it was equipped with new active sonar device. Additional space was needed for this device and to accommodate for this, the hull was further lengthened by two feet immediately fore and aft of the periscope. Other minor mechanical improvements were made, such as a new oil-filter system, air compressor and updated electrical control system.

A total of 577 Type VIICs were commissioned.

Type VIIC/41
The Type VIIC/41 was the German response to counter the effectiveness of British ASW progress made in 1940/41. As British ASW weapons and equipment improved, depth charges were becoming more effective and accurate at finding submerged U-boats. The necessity to dive even deeper to evade depth-charge attacks was becoming increasingly important. In the Type VIIC/41, the crush depth was increased from 200m to 250m.

In order to increase the crush depth, all non-essential equipment were removed and many others were replaced with newer, lighter material. The weight savings was used to increase hull thickness from 0.73in (18.5mm) to 0.83in (21mm), which increased the crush depth to 820ft (250m). These modifications were considered minor and did not warrant a new sub-type number, hence it was indicated by adding a suffix “41”, indicating that the modification approval was given in the year 1941.

A total of 88 Type VIIC/41 were commissioned.


I do not know which specific version of the VIIC the kooklit model is as there is no reference in the kit.

[Paperwarrior]

Great information! Doesn't the kit come with a snorkel device (I seem to remember seeing one when I purchased it)? If so, it definately was a later war version. The hope was to run the diesel engines to charge the batteries without actually surfacing and risking detection and sinking.

Your formers look great. I bet that 100# stock is working out for this size boat. It should make for a strong model.

Jeff

[jagolden01]

It does have a snorkel so it is a later version.

[jagolden01]

Jeff, it does have the snorkel device so it is a later version of the sub. Thanks for that info.

Lunchtime Progress, the last for today.

After the first section coming out so well and so fast I got nervous so am slowing things down and making sure things are done right.

Have attached all the skinning strips. There is one odd strip at the rear of the section. All the others attach to the formers square on. This last strip (one each side) attaches at an angle. I can't remember why that is and it seems funky.
If anyone else has built this can you refresh my memory on this little piece, please.

Hopefully tomorrow I'll get to start skinning this section.

[airdave]

I didn't follow this instruction when I built the "Attack Tiger".
(I put the strip horizontally along the edge of the flat former)

But you can see in Kooklik's instructions, that the strip should follow
the indent/crease in the Hull side.
Looks like you could crease the strip along its center line and then it will
fit in better.

[jagolden01]

Dave, thanks. I did follow the instructions (trying not to improvise so I don't have problems). It worked out fine.

I skinned the 2nd section. Really like the 100# Bristol for these skins. Aside from the firmness, it takes a lot of handling without deforming. Doesn't show the cupping skeleton you get sometimes (at least so far).

At the open end of section 1, the skins overhung the tines just a little bit but it was enough to interfere with joining the two sections together correctly. I had to trim a little bit very carefully from all the way around. I have a very small pair of scissors with slightly curved blades. This makes it easy to get into tight spaces.

After the trimming, I test fitted the two sections together. At this point, it's approximately 21.75" long.
I won't permanently join section 1 to section 2 until I have section 3 built (more than likely, anyway). I may get excited and do it but I don't want to get ahead of the game.

[Paperwarrior]

this is coming along great. I may have to go print a copy. ;)

Jeff

[jagolden01]

this is coming along great. I may have to go print a copy. ;)

Jeff

Thanks, Jeff.

Kooklit did a great job on the design and mechanics of this model. And Dave's recolor for the North Sea camo is mighty fine! The set of instructions is very nicely put together.
There are a handful of other builds of this on the forum that show just how well it turns out.

I don't think I could build it at the original 1:72 as I'm really ham-handed and my eyes leave something to be desired. I'm finding the 1:48 to be a nice size to handle. When skinning, my hand fits nicely around a skin to hold it in place very comfortably - that's helping.
From a paper standpoint, the enlarged sheets fit nicely on 11" x 17" sized stock.

[jagolden01]

Off topic question: how come whenever I type Kooklit, it appears in bold, red text?
Just askin'

[OhioMike]

Thats spellcheck telling you your not very bright! We know better! Great work so far and heres hopeing you continue to lead the way with this great project!

[jagolden01]

Section 3 ready to have the skins applied. Yep, looks pretty much like section 1 & 2. Took longer on this one and to me it shows - very happy with the result.

I'm beginning to realize this is still going to be a pretty big model, even at 1:48. There are 5 sections to the hull in total.

Some of the formers have little cut-outs where the snorkel box drops down into the hull. Even with the thick formers they can easily be broken off so I added some strength to them. Looking ahead in the instructions these may come back to bite me in the butt later on, but I'll deal with it then.

During lunchtime, I'll print out the skins for this section.

[marco1971]

It is coming very well! good job :)

Marco

[jagolden01]

Well, during lunch I was able to get section three skinned. This section only has 4 skins to cover it - 2 for the lower part and 2 small strips for the upper.
One on them was huge (9.75" long x 10.25" around) and was a little dicey getting on but again, because of kooklit's great engineering, all ended up well.

After the section was completed, I dry fitted the three sections together.

I've also printed out the formers for section 4. I'll try to work on that this weekend but I've got a lot to do around the house, we'll see.

[eatcrow2]

Fun following such nice clean work!!!

[jagolden01]

Thanks, Peter. It's funny, I was thinking the same about your work!

I'm following your 1/72 Yokosuka B4Y1 "Jean" build. It's coming along nicely and I look forward to more of it. Looks like a fine kit. I notice it 5 of 5 for build difficulty.

[jagolden01]

OK, I've got the 4th section formers put together. Hopefully with get the skin strips and the skins on tonight/tomorrow.
After this ther's just one more major section to go to complete the major parts of the hull.

I've figured there are 8 major assemblies to the sub - 5 hull sections, the 2 saddle tanks and the conning tower. After that comes all the details from the snorkel to the guns to the railings.

Well, I was going to upload a photo but for some reason I can't do it directly form my pad. I'll do it when I'm on the laptop.
Time for a papermodeler's iPad app? Partially joking but would be handy for me (he says selfishly).

[Paperwarrior]

This is coming along well. This is going to be a big model. I like your idea to reinforce the formers. I think the 100# paper is really forming well on this. great choice.

Ha Ha...papermodeler's app...why not?

Jeff

[jagolden01]

Section 4 formers.

[jagolden01]

Alright, Section 4 is finally skinned. This had what looked to be a tricky procedure to attach one of the skins, but kooklit's excellent engineering worked out perfectly. I couldn't be more pleased.

Now that the first 4 sections are completed per instructions, they call for them to be joined together. They all fit together well so that's not a problem. Because of the size I will use 5 minute epoxy to join them as it is strong but quick to set-up. I don't think in the long run plain glue would be sufficient. I thought about using Liquid Nails but I have more experience using the epoxy.

Note I haven't added the bow planes yet as I do not want them to get damaged.

[jagolden01]

Very good site on German u-boats:
German U-Boats and Battle of the Atlantic (http://www.uboataces.com/)

[Michael Mash]

Hello Jay,
Its good to see you back at work.
Mike

[Paperwarrior]

Looking good. Thanks for the website; looks like some good info there.

Jeff

[jagolden01]

Thanks, Mike and Jeff. Good to be back at it.

Uboataces is a nice site. They actually have an email newsletter you can get. There's so much information I get lost.

A few of the aces they list I see there are books about them. Am going to get one soon, just need to decide.

While waiting to get epoxy, I'm moving on to the saddle tanks. Lots more formers and skins. They're like two morel little boats!

[Paperwarrior]

Have you seen this website: The U-boat Wars 1939-1945 (Kriegsmarine) and 1914-1918 (Kaiserliche Marine) and Allied Warships of WWII - uboat.net (http://uboat.net/)

They have some interesting information, also.

Jeff

[jagolden01]

Thanks, Jeff. Had not come across that one. Another great source of info.

[jagolden01]

I've run into a question while working on the saddle tanks.
I'm adding the skin strips to the formers. All of the strips are the same length as the formers, fitting edge-to-edge as shown in the green circle, except for strip H-8AR,L. For some reason this one hangs over at the ends.

It does not show this overhang in the instructions. Clearly all the strips just go edge-to-edge.

Any previous builders want to chime in? Did you just trim to fit or is there something down the line that the instructions are not showing?

Thanks, Joe

[jagolden01]

OK, the saddle tank frames are done and are ready for skinning. I think I'm just going to trim the strips H-8aR,L that I mentioned in my last post. If needed, I can just extend them again.

Now, though, I am really at a standstill. I need the epoxy to join the 4 hull sections together and I need a new black ink cartridge to print out the saddle tank skins. I'll try to get one or the other tomorrow.

Hope the saddle tank skinning goes as well as the rest has gone. It seems these skins should be flush at the bottom of the frames but overhang the tops over most of the length so it can slip into the long slot in the side of the hull.

Joe

[Michael Mash]

I would like to help with your question, but I have never built this.
The frames are interesting. Tough work, no doubt. Nice job.
Mike

[jagolden01]

Skinned the Port (left) saddle tank. WOW, lots of work to do. More so it seemed than the hull pieces!
Came out pretty good. There are a total of 13 skins to complete one tank. I cut one of the skins apart for ease of application for a total of 14 skins.

Along the bottom, there is a little cupping on some of the skins. I'll have to insert a brace behind the skin to straighten these out.

One thing I discovered is that the ink/paper combo I'm using is not completely waterproof (surprised about that). The paper stains slightly if it gets too wet. On the upside, it's a nice stain that looks like it belongs on the boat.

I will be sealing this model when completed so I'll have to explore other mediums besides water based. I know a lot of builders use Future floor wax.

Well, on to the starboard saddle tank skinning. Hopefully what I learned from the left one will help it come out better. One thing that doesn't bother me too much about visible seams is that at this scale, hull plate seams from building and repairs would be visible. Gives it that "lived in look".

[Paperwarrior]

Looking good on the saddle tanks.

I understand your frustration with the stains. I'm having an issue with that right now on a gunboat of CT's I'm working on. I seem to have the most issue on 'gray' colored items.

Best of luck on the other tank.

Jeff

[jagolden01]

Have completed both saddle tanks and have attached the first 4 sections together. Still looking pretty good. I'll probably try to attach the saddle tanks over the weekend.
After that, I'll move on to the last section of the sub.
Right now, it's approximately 45" long, the last section will add about another 12" for a total somewhere around 57" - big but not too big.

Funny though, even after all this work I'm still only on page 3 of 11 of the instructions.

Joe

[jimbean]

hi, I am really enjoying watching your build. You seem to have avoided the mistakes that I made. My model came out at 59'' in the regular scale, 1:72 I think. I thought that a rescale would change the length. ?? Anyway looking good. Avoid twist.
regards Jim Bean

[jagolden01]

hi, I am really enjoying watching your build. You seem to have avoided the mistakes that I made. My model came out at 59'' in the regular scale, 1:72 I think. I thought that a rescale would change the length. ?? Anyway looking good. Avoid twist.
regards Jim Bean

Thanks, Jim! Maybe I didn't measure correctly?! Since you've built this, any input or insights are appreciated. So far she seems pretty straight.

[marco1971]

Joe, very good progress!

Marco

[OhioMike]

At 1/72 this model should be no larger than approx 36.6"! At 1/48 my measurements came out at approx..55"...???

[jagolden01]

I did remeasure and again came up with the approx 57".

[jagolden01]

Have started attaching the saddle tanks. They really need to be held FIRMLY in place with your hands while setting so they line up where they should on the subs sides.

I decided to use fast setting epoxy to accomplish this so they'd set fast but give me a little time to work the positioning if needed. I used 1 Minute epoxy.

Along the tops of the tanks there are overhanging sections that slide into slots towards the top of the hull.

Laying the sub on it's side, I slid the tank overhangs into the slots to act like a hinge. Then I applied the epoxy working quickly, flopped the tank down, worked it into place and held on for dear life for a couple of minutes. I know it said 1 Minute epoxy but there was a little more working time.

I'm pleased with the results. There are a couple of spots on the hull that will need coloring where the tank does not completely cover the white. I'll do that when the time comes.

Now if I can attach the starboard tank without crushing the port one I'll be alright.

[jagolden01]

Joe, very good progress!

Marco

Thanks, Marco!

[Paperwarrior]

Good luck with the other tank, but this one looks great! That was a good choice, I think, using the 1-minute epoxy.

I use two types of Aleene's glues: 1. Quick Dry Tacky Glue (hold for a count of 10 to 20 and you're held, but gives you a few seconds to adjust as required) and 2. Fast Grab Tacky Glue (it grabs quick, you better put it where you want it the first time). I like that you can get these in .65 oz bottles in sets with a clear glue and the regular glue (gold bottle).

...looking forward to your next installment.

Jeff

[jagolden01]

Jeff, thanks. I got the other tank on pretty much like the first one.
I'll have to get to the craft store and look for both those Aleens glues. The fast grab soundslike it could be really useful.

Even though the tanks have gone on pretty well, there are a couple of spots where they almost need fairings (like on aircraft wings) to fill in a couple of gaps.

[jimbean]

Looking really good.
For the record I got my model back from a show yesterday and it measures 39" not 59"
I always forget names but now numbers!!!
Jim Bean

[jagolden01]

Thanks, Jim.

As long as you remember the faces like, Washington, Lincoln, Jackson, Grant (do we see a pattern here)?

[jagolden01]

Picked up some supplies so I was able to make some progress.

These are the section five formers. Having previously built this section I can say there are some tricky skins to be applied here. The cloaca-like torpedo tube opening has some tricky parts that are supposed to butt up against each other. I had to use some small patches last time.

I'll work on the skins this weekend. I'm glad I only have the conning tower formers left to cut out. I noticed the break between all the other formers and this section my cutting seemed to get worse instead of better from the hand cramps.

[Don Boose]

Been following, but not commenting, Joe. Fine build and lots of useful info on technique.

Don

[jagolden01]

Thanks, Don. Feel free to comment. The more the merrier!

[marco1971]

Joe the model look great! I love your accuracy in the construction of the skeleton :).

Marco

[jagolden01]

Thanks, Marco. The skeleton has turned out well and that's definitely helped get the skins on well.

[F-22 nut]

Hey alright dave's back welcome back dave
F-22 nut

[jagolden01]

OK, I didn't work on the section 5 skins this weekend as I thought I would.
I following the build directions step-by-step and I noticed I forgot a big one.

There are former pieces to be inserted into the hull top to help maintain the shape of the hull. I cut out all 20 and glued them in place.
They work pretty good but I can still see problems when it comes time to attach the deck. The hull does have a changeable shape along the edges so I guess this was the best solution the designer felt worked.

On the sections that don't have these stiffeners, I'm going to insert my own interpretation as I did on my first attempt. Then I used pieces of Foam-Cor glued to the inside edges.

Thanks

Joe

[Zathros]

Wow, that looks excellent! Straight and true! Nice workmanship! :)

[jagolden01]

Thanks, Zathros.
The frame has worked out well so far. Good engineering by kooklit.

[Paperwarrior]

Agreed, that looks great! Impressive work.

Jeff

[jagolden01]

Thanks, PaperWarrior!

I haven't had a chance to do much more, nothing picture-worthy anyway.

To give myself more atmosphere, I've started reading Iron Coffins by Commander Herbert A. Werner, one of the few German sub commanders to survive the war. It seems it will be a fascinating read. It really gives a feel for the time and setting.
So far it almost reads like an adventure novel. Only up to page 19 and his first time out in a sub, on his first dive, it's stuck on the bottom.
Trying to steal little moments to read more. Busy weekend though with Easter and all. Guests coming, dinner, etc., etc. Busy work week ahead too so I don't kow if I'll get a chance to work much on the sub. I will ne able to get the section five skins printed out, though, so should be able to start applying them.

Thanks to any and all for looking in on the thread!

[jagolden01]

HAve been able to do some of the skins on section 5. This has (to me) some tricky shapes, but they are coming out pretty well.
This first picture shows one really odd spot. There are actually 2 skins to go on this spot, but you can see there's no tabs or glue support in the middle - just really strange for it to be done that way.
However, as can be seen in the second picture, it does all work out in the end.

Before finishing the skins to the end, the aft torpedo tube needs to be formed and inserted. After this is in, the skinning around that is really tricky as they are supposed to butt up against the side of the torpedo tube. I hope (again) that kooklits great engineering works out here.

[Michael Mash]

Hello Joe,
That second image showing the aft section looks sharp. It has a lot of rivet detail and you rendered some great work on the seams.
Mike

[Paperwarrior]

Joe,

Looks fantastic. That area with no support came out well. Great job.

Jeff

[jagolden01]

Thanks guys!

[jagolden01]

More progress on the final aft section.
Aft torpedo tube installed and then final skinning. Still some edge touch up to do.

Some of the edges, especially towards the aft end have cupping at the tops where the deck is supposed to meet the edges. To correct this I've been adding Foam-Cor braces. As can be seen this really straightens them out nicely. the braces are fitted in very tight to hold position. It gives the edges a firm, strong feel. Will also give the deck more glue area.

[Uyraell]

Your progress with this model is amazing, and very well worth the watching.
I am greatly enjoying seeing this submarine evolve. :)

Kind and Respectful Regards Joe, Uyraell.

[Paperwarrior]

Foam-Cor braces. Great idea!

Jeff

[jagolden01]

Thank you Uyraell and Jeff.
The Foam-Cor is lightweight but has a lot of body. When youRe trying to work it into small areas it gives you something to grip. Also the foam has some 'give' ro it so you can really squish it in where you need.
Progress has been slow of late because of my job and energy level.
Did find the time, though, to finish reading "Iron Coffins" about the U-boat war . Very exciting and personal reading. It was absolutely brutal beingin those subs, even on a good day considering the problems of so many crammed in so little space.

I'll get the braces finished this week and hopefully attach that last stern section to the rest of the boat.
After that it will be to build the schnorkell and the deck. After reading "Iron Coffins" I've been considering skipping the scnorkell and building the boat as a mid Type VIIC as one of the authors early assignments.

[airdave]

I did the same thing with some bracing to stop that ribbing of the skin panels.

One issue I had was with the cut outs for the snorkel.
Check the deck fit and its alignment with all the former cutouts.
I can't remember what and how I adjusted things but I remember an issue with all that area.
I had to shift the slots in the deck or in the formers or somewhere...?

Maybe theres something in my build thread?

[jagolden01]

I've not added bracing in the areas where kooklit supplied it, only in areas that did not have any support, so I hope the schnorkell wil dit OK.

Thinking deeper, I can't build an early Werner version of the sub because of the color scheme. All his subs appear to have been the plain, two-tone gray.

Therefore, I will be building the schnorkell and I will be test fitting it to the provided slots and to the deck plating carefully as others, including you I believe Dave, have said to do.

If I have to I'll force it to fit. To quote Colnel Hogan, "It's German. All it understands is force."

[jagolden01]

Wow! Been a long time since I worked on this and posted.
Is it possible to necropost to your own thread?

Anyway, I have pulled this back out and am slowly starting to work on it. Still have a bunch of internal braces to add - boring work not worthy of photos. I may sneak in a section of the deck where I can just to try it out.

My biggest decision at this point is on the shnorkel. From all accounts the shnorkel was not on as many subs as it might seem. Based on my reading of "Iron Coffins" it was more likely to NOT be installed on a sub. I am considering decking over the opening for the shnorkel.

Baby steps here moving forward but I'm happy to do more work on this. To think I almost got rid of this one, too.

Thanks to all that followed previously. Hope to grab your interest again.

Joe

[airdave]

at u-boats.net there is a list of VIIc production and where they were all built.
You would have to cross-reference all the numbers to see which ones had snorkels
and which ones didn't.

I see there are some variations even within Type VIIc models
...do we know what variant Kooklik's sub is?
That might help determine.

Otherwise, you could just assume this is one of the Type VIIc's that
did not have a "shnorkel", and built it that way.
Who's gonna argue?


"vas is das?"..."das ist mein shnorkel"..."vas ist dat fur?" ..."shnorkeling"... "mein gut!"

[jagolden01]

Thanks, Dave. I haven't been able to pin down kooklits version to match exactly any other type VIIc I've found.

[vbsargent]

The snorkels were added to many VIIC's between '44 and '45. Looking at his design thread in 2007 he mentionted the diagram he was using as his design base. Looks like it was a Type VII C/41. Uboat.net has some info on them here: Type VIIC/41 - U-boat Types - German U-boats of WWII - Kriegsmarine - uboat.net (http://www.uboat.net/types/viic-41.htm).

The removal of the deck mounted 88 fore of the tower and the expanded wintergarten with two twin 20mm(?) guns and a 37mm slightly lower and aft would be consistent with a vessel between 44 and 45.

[jagolden01]

The snorkels were added to many VIIC's between '44 and '45. Looking at his design thread in 2007 he mentionted the diagram he was using as his design base. Looks like it was a Type VII C/41. Uboat.net has some info on them here: Type VIIC/41 - U-boat Types - German U-boats of WWII - Kriegsmarine - uboat.net (http://www.uboat.net/types/viic-41.htm).

The removal of the deck mounted 88 fore of the tower and the expanded wintergarten with two twin 20mm(?) guns and a 37mm slightly lower and aft would be consistent with a vessel between 44 and 45.

Thank, VB!

[jagolden01]

A little progress made.

Have finally attached the last stern module to the rest of the hull. This makes the final length 57".

Looking down the top of the spine its perfectly straight - for 95% of the length. The first 5% is at a slight angle. Not that you notice overall but it means I'll have to adjust when laying down the deck pieces.

Also a dry test fit of one of the deck pieces for the aft end. From a dry fit standpoint they look and fit quite well. I will be laminating these to some heavier stock so there are no waves/warps in the decking.

Baby steps.


Joe

[Paperwarrior]

Awesome work, Joe! If the first 5% is off, I can't tell. It looks great. Great idea on the deck. I look forward to seeing it.

Jeff

[vbsargent]

Did you say 57 inches? Holy poop! Almost 5 feet long! And I thought that my 1/72nd scale Wilkes class destroyer was going to be big at 52 inches.

My hat is off to you sir.

vbsargent

[jagolden01]

Thanks, folks. It's good to be doing work on this again. Yea, it's big but at least not as big as the first iteration that I started at 1:32.

Now, I have a question. Is it me or what? My wife just said to me, and I quote "What is that long thing?" I've only been working on this for more than a year in one scale or another and it's been sitting clear as day out on my build desk. How could she miss it? And worse, how could she not identify it as some sort of submarine?

[Michael Mash]

Hello Jo,
I like the second image of the project.
Mike

[Gil]

Thanks, folks. It's good to be doing work on this again. Yea, it's big but at least not as big as the first iteration that I started at 1:32.

Now, I have a question. Is it me or what? My wife just said to me, and I quote "What is that long thing?" I've only been working on this for more than a year in one scale or another and it's been sitting clear as day out on my build desk. How could she miss it? And worse, how could she not identify it as some sort of submarine?

That comment, is a wifely angle shot - actual meaning is "where do you suppose you're going to "Put That Thing"...,

+Gil

P.S. I like Type VII's. Keep up the good work.

[jagolden01]

That comment, is a wifely angle shot - actual meaning is "where do you suppose you're going to "Put That Thing"...,

+Gil

P.S. I like Type VII's. Keep up the good work.

Thanks guys.

I think it would look nice on the sofa table behind the couch. I bet I could get it there for a little while at least. Of course, the cats would be another story.

[jagolden01]

I've been installing the decking and while waiting to dry, I looked ahead through the instructions.

I came across these little "pipe" things (bollards?) that stick up all over the deck. I think they may be used to tie up to a dock.

Do these things stick up all the time or are they recessed when the boat is at sea? There's 10 of them spread around the deck.

I'd like the boat to be "at sea" config.