Military Super Corsair [Archive]

Willja67

08-16-2009, 05:14 PM

Oaky everybody,

I have decided to dust off a military repaint of my Super Corsair. Some modifications need to be made to the kit before it's ready to roll but I was wondering if someone would be interested in doing a test build for me?

The repaint will be BuNo88454 as seen below. I'm going to release a kit with 3 paintjobs. The first will be the above mentioned plane in it's 1945 configuration (bomb rack and rocket launchers and slightly different paint job). The second will also be the 454 but as it is now.

The third will a 1946 version with Bunker Hill markings (yellow cowl with white arrows on wings and tail). In addition to having to design the bomb racks and rocket launchers for 454 I have to rework the tail cone of this version because it has a tailhook.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/500/thumbs/000_0120_1_.jpg (http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=234)

As you can see I have already proved to myself that the Bunker Hill repaint works(I never finished building it though).

So the request is this: Would someone commit to build 454 with the tailhook (which is inaccurate for this plane) so I can be assured that the paint job and the modifications work?

The paint job isn't quite ready but I can finish quick enough that can you could start working on it while I'm getting the tailcone redesigned and hopefully I have it ready before you are.

As usual I would ask that whoever takes this on makes a firm committment to get it done and they would get the kit free when complete in addition to one of my other kits of their choice.

Any takers?

cgutzmer

08-16-2009, 05:17 PM

Sweetness :)
Chris

Amazyah

08-16-2009, 07:00 PM

That's beautiful Will!
If my skills were up to par I would jump at the chance!
I think this demands someone more on GB's level of skills or someone close to that!
I own a couple of your kits but I think it will be a couple years before I am ready.
I want to do it justice.

Russell

Willja67

08-16-2009, 07:17 PM

Ron AKA OldTroll has volunteered for the job. Hopefully I can get stuff out quick enough. I can't beleive I waited this long to do it I knew the interest was there.

Hopefully it meets everyones expetations.

Amazyah

08-16-2009, 07:57 PM

All right! http://smilies.sofrayt.com/fsc/laugh.gif
I can't wait to see the thread on this one!

As far as expectations go, you have always exceeded them Will! http://smilies.sofrayt.com/fsc/thumbs-up.gif

Russell

Willja67

08-16-2009, 09:15 PM

Thank you Russell your enthusiasm and compliments are appreciated as well as everyone elses (Chris, Don, Ron, etc)

Amazyah

08-16-2009, 09:40 PM

You can put me down for a copy right now!
I should be able to save up enough aluminum cans between now and then to get this baby!

Russell

Don Boose

08-17-2009, 09:49 PM

I eagerly await the Troll build, have been tracking Cecil's build of 57, and will definitely be there to buy this one (in each color scheme). May actually try building it, as well. After all, it does look like a Corsair!

Don

Willja67

04-03-2010, 02:01 PM

Decided that I needed to build the model myself. This has been kind of a quick and dirty build so far but I think it will work for the sale page. I skipped a lot of parts in the cockpit since that has already been built about 10 times now.I'm really happy with the redesigned inboard wing section.

One difference you might note is that the color was changed in the gear bays from yellow to the same as the rest of the plane. I realized that in every pic I have of the plane that the gear is blue and that usually means the rest of the gear bay and doors are as well.

I'm very pleased with the way the skin itself turned out. As those of you know who read my posts I really don't like seams and do my best to eliminate them. I was somewhat concerned that the redesign would create problems but it actually solved a few and is easier to build than the previous design. Ron (OldTroll) said that as well but sometimes people can have different opinions on stuff like this.

So here are a few comparo shots with the original version and the upgraded version.

First set show the top. Forward of the main spar 1 seam was co-located with a panel line and aft of the spar 1 seam was totally eliminated and 1 was co-located with a panel line, making it look a lot cleaner.

Second set shows the bottom. Everything was made a whole lot more accurate even though I was unable to truly eliminate any seams on the bottom it does look a lot cleaner.

Yu Gyokubun

04-03-2010, 09:45 PM

For long time since I started building paper model air plane how to make seam lines on airframe less stand out has been my main concern more than building realistic cockpit inside because standing out seam lines ruin the entire impression so I'm very glad to know that a designer deal with it that will make us builders' life easier.

Willja67

04-05-2010, 01:52 PM

Yug-san, I'm glad there are those that appreciate those efforts and coming from a master such as yourself it is doubly appreciated.

In the pictures below are shown 2 fairly major mods to the design. For those familiar with the design you can see that the frame for the outer wing panel has been significantly improved with the addition of shear panels between the ribs and spars.

The other major change is in the wingskin. I moved the aileron and flap from the bottom portion of the wing and connected them to the top along the trailing edge, the idea being to make construction a lot easier. I always mess up the trailing edge. In fact the left wing panel is the old design and my failure to do a good job on it made me try this approach.

And the last picture shows about 2/3 of the projects I have going at present. Hopefully I can get the Corsair out of the way soon.

3Turner

04-06-2010, 09:34 PM

The Corsair is looking good Will. Can't wait to buy this version in the shop. :D

And only 2/3 of the projects you have going? Is the other third hiding behind some of that cardstock scrap? LOL!

Willja67

04-07-2010, 06:54 AM

the other projects are still only electrons floating around in my computer. But there are enough scraps on my desk to hide a couple of other projects. I really need to clean my room.

Willja67

04-07-2010, 09:09 PM

Well it looks like an airplane or should I say it looks like a corsair? I bet a lot of the newbies don't have a clue why that is said so much around here. I'm wishing I had done a little more edge coloring but overall I'm very happy with what's been built. But I'll let you all judge for yourselves.

Don Boose

04-11-2010, 12:54 PM

It looks like a Mustang Mk.LVI.

dansls1

04-11-2010, 03:10 PM

Looks good. This one will definitely go on my build when it's available.

Willja67

04-11-2010, 03:28 PM

Don, I had to go back to the appropriate thread to find the meaning and still am not sure I fully understand all the weird humor that everyone was throwing out while trying to mess with everyone else's mind but it was entertaining.

Dan thanks for the interest, just so all of you know I've started added fasteners to the paint job. I was noticing that something was missing and have been debating for a long while wether or not to add them since viewing a model is like seeing the real thing from a distance and items that small just don't really show up, but I'm adding them and will see what I think.

Another reason I was so hesitant was that my printer (a HP 7200 series photo printer) didn't have very good resolution, so thinking that most people wouldn't have printers capable of printing really fine details made it a waste of time to incorporate them. But I printed this latest build out on a much newer printer and could see the little letters so I decided to add the fasteners.

member_3

04-11-2010, 04:17 PM

Will, I would recommend including such things as fasteners and bolt heads but not flush rivets. IMHO the flush rivet depiction is widely (and poorly) done on most paper and plastic models. If you bear in mind that looking at a 1:33 model from a foot or two away is like viewing the real thing at 33-66 feet you realize that a lot of the "detail" that we have on our models actually would not be visible. I'm not even a fan of panel lines appearing on modern aircraft models unless they depict a distinct change in thickness or material (color change) on the real thing. Your models seem to have just the right amount of surface detail...please don't change a thing!

Don Boose

04-11-2010, 04:25 PM

Ron speaks truth on the flush rivet perception issue.

Will - I couldn't resist harkening back to the original "looks like a Corsair" routine, but more important, your Corsair is a stunning model that I would love to be capable of doing justice to some day. It has been most interesting watching your design and build threads over the years. I've acquired several of your models, including the polka-dotted Moonbat McSwine, and hope that I will eventually get them built. My silly interjection notwithstanding, you have created a masterpiece here.

Ron -- As the creator of the story, thanks for not pointing out that it was actually a Corsair Mk. LVI. Dan, who started it all with his canopy search, would know that "it is definitely a Mustang."

Don

Willja67

04-11-2010, 06:58 PM

Ron, That was my thinking, just the big stuff. Currently I use 40% grey for the panel lines but have been wondering if maybe I should go darker to make them more subtle? Or maybe go with the hairline thickness? I use the current width setting because of the aforemention printer issue. The panel lines were getting lost because the print quality was poor.

Colonel, your patronage and comments are always appreciated.

member_3

04-11-2010, 07:07 PM

For what it's worth - I use a 2 pixel wide line almost all outlines and panel lines on my repaints which are done at 300 pixels/inch. 1 pixel is too thin due to fill "leakage" issues. I reserve thicker lines for special cases/

Willja67

04-13-2010, 12:35 PM

One major inadequacy in the model has been the wheel, and I have sought to remedy that with this upgrade.

One of the big problems was that it was too narrow, and the other was a substantial lack of detail or relief. So with this edition I added a couple of discs to make it wider and added a hub for the outside side of the wheel and also a disc to raise the side of the tire up from the wheel and added some raised detail on the side of the wheel that the leg attaches to.

I'm not that great with a camera so I hope the pictures show the differences between the original and the revised. The quality of build is obviously not that great but the SFF mode of the camera makes it look worse that seeing it in person.

Willja67

04-23-2010, 09:28 PM

I have been getting some work done on this project. Thanks to Bomarcs PBJ the rocket launchers are going to be a whole lot more accurate than they would have been. I discussed with him awhile ago using his 5 in. rocket from the download section with this kit when it's finally released.

About the only progress made since last time was the addition of canopy exhaust stacks and prop hub. The canopy sure does a lot for the model even though I screwed it up some. The fin tip on the aft end isn't strait down the centerline and makes it look funny. The plastic for the canopy hasn't stuck well to the glue in some places so it's not very presentable from the starboard side but overall I guess it's okay.

Not shown on the underside I ripped one of the bomb racks off. I was looking through my reference photos and noticed that the leading edge of the rack sweeps up and back. My bomb racks are straight extrusions. Unfortunately you can't tell that from a set of drawings because the gull wing blocks the side view of it. So I'll go back and redesign it and just replace one to make sure it fits all right.

Still have a few detail tweaks before I can print the landing gear but it will be coming soon.

jeanma

04-24-2010, 01:30 AM

seem really good !
i have the same letherman tool ;)

Willja67

04-24-2010, 06:41 AM

Thanks Jeanma. Leatherman tools can be quite useful in paper model construction but be careful in other uses. I used mine for cutting some wire and had to squeeze pretty hard to do it and now the pliers will only open about 1/4".

jeanma

04-24-2010, 10:31 PM

:rolleyes:
yes, all that tools have the same history : i can't remember the number of people who cut himself with it, opening it for watch inside or use for the first time...
Now (i use it for more than 10 years) i prefer warn each time, and do the job myself if it's possible...

About your model, i really like the curves, it's really a very good job :)

Willja67

04-26-2010, 10:41 PM

Thank you Jeanma. Yeah those knives are incredibly sharp when they are new.

Not much really to show for the past few days but I have started in on the landing gear and gear bay doors. First pic shows the parts sheet (still minus a few parts).

Those of you who have the previous kits will notice that several of the parts comprising the linkage have been consolidated. I always thought that getting it right when building was a bigger pain than it needed to be and so I joined as many as I could get away with so hopefully it's easier to get the correct geometry.

Just realized that I have all the linkage in the overall aircraft color but the legs themselves are grey:o. Not sure if I'll reprint or not (the legs should be the aircraft color).

The next few pictures show one of the new gear doors. The original kit was totally lacking in any built up detail on the gear doors and relied solely on texturing. The rest of the photos show the new version. I will post some photos in the future of the real thing but for now I'm contemplating how well this approach works. I have simply cut out areas where there are depressions in the inner surface of the door (the same as other corsair kits I have seen). But it isn't entirely accurate.

One last change that I have made that I think I like is that i have changed the panel lines color from 40% black to 60% black. It makes them more subtle and I like that.

Sorry for the poor photography.

What do you think?

Willja67

05-06-2010, 06:54 PM

Okay I know I have asked this about 3 times before but I'm still stuck on the Dark Sea Blue color issue (yeah I know that rhymed).

The color seen in the current build is the cmyk values I found on some site listed as Dark Sea Blue but it's really just a dark gray. Attached below is a pdf of several roundels. In the upper right corner is the stars and bars on what appears to be dark sea blue. Since the file was vector it imported really easy into Corel Draw and I just clicked on the color and added it to the palette. But it looks too light and a little too green to me. Any comments or suggestions?

Barry

05-06-2010, 08:08 PM

Looks Dark Blue on my screen

member_3

05-06-2010, 08:26 PM

My color source gives Dark Sea Blue as Federal Spec 595 color FS15042 which translates to HTML 2E4A68 or RGBHSL 46-74-104-149-99-75. CYMK is 88-82-24-1

RyanShort

05-06-2010, 09:03 PM

Monitor colors and print colors are an ugly beast. What looks good on one screen may not on another, and may print a third color.

Ryan

3Turner

05-06-2010, 09:13 PM

I pulled up your US Markings PDF in Photoshop CS4 and here is what I got.

CMYK values for the top right roundel, C: 77% M: 60% Y: 47% K: 29% (This value looks right to me. I don't see the green tint you mention. Could be the difference of monitors.)

I even put Old Troll's CMYK values mentioned in his post from his color source and there is a big difference in shade.

screen capture sample attached.
44770

Willja67

05-06-2010, 09:52 PM

Thanks for all the responses guys. I'm thinking it may jsut be my monitor. One thing that might be causing the problem is the contrast between the insignia blue in the roundel and the Dark Sea Blue. In 1945 the roundel had the stars and bars on an insignia blue background, the aircraft as presently displayed in the Museum of Flight just has the stars and bars painted over top of the dark sea blue. Looking over the pictures attached below I think my perceptions of what is correct may be off a little and the color from the pdf I posted earlier might work better than i originally thought.

3Turner

05-06-2010, 11:12 PM

But the last two shots have two different roundels...most recent version, with a red bar. The B&W photo could very well have been fresh paint of roundels painted on a sun beaten overall dark sea blue paint job that had been faded by months.

Willja67

05-08-2010, 10:06 AM

There is one thing that makes me think the overall paintjob is pretty fresh on the B&W photo. The plane doesn't have the heightened rudder yet so that makes me thing it's fairly fresh off the assembly line.

One other thought has occurred to me as well. Maybe the current base color is darker than 1945 spec?

3Turner

05-08-2010, 10:15 AM

One other thought has occurred to me as well. Maybe the current base color is darker than 1945 spec?
This could very well be true. Different time, different process for making the paint and perhaps even different chemicals/additives in the paint.

Willja67

06-24-2010, 10:23 PM

Well progress has been made. I'm very near having the final page layout done. I still haven't designed the bombs or rockets but I decided just for kicks to do a rough parts count, and if you count all the little bits of wire this kit has 600 parts! And like I said that doesn't even include the weapons. I guestimate they will add about 75-90 more.

I still have to do most of the diagrams since this is not really even the same kit any more. But I think I see light at the end of the tunnel.

cgutzmer

06-25-2010, 08:44 AM

Great to hear! got some teaser sheet pics you can share? :)
Chris

3Turner

06-25-2010, 04:22 PM

Alright! I can't wait to see it available. And I concur...any pics? :D

Willja67

06-25-2010, 06:48 PM

Ask and ye shall receive. The first few are from Mike Dixon the guy who built #74. He just did a quick build to test the newly added engine accessory compartment vent. He also scribed the panel lines and embossed the fasteners. He calls them rivets in the labels he put on the pictures but they are really screw heads. I opted not to represent rivets since I consider them to be too small.

4 paint jobs will be included in the kit representing 454 in each of the major phases of its life. I am only including 3 since 2 versions are very similar(at least in the cowl). I also saw Chris's suggestion about adding scale bars and as you can see version 1 has the scale bar and I will add it to the rest before release.

Willja67

08-03-2010, 09:19 PM

I finally completed the 3d modeling of the wing fold mechanism. Hope the screen grab shows it clearly. Some details will be drawn in on the parts after they are laid out.

3Turner

08-03-2010, 09:43 PM

Wow! That's looking great Will! Can't wait to see it applied to the model. :)

Gil

08-03-2010, 10:00 PM

Looks complicated. I often wonder how folding wings were able to physically support the g-forces of combat as the connecting structural parts seem to be on the "delicate looking" side of the requirement.

How long did it take to figure how it actually works and are you planning to make the wings fold on the model (for posing purposes)?...,

Best regards, +Gil

Willja67

08-03-2010, 10:50 PM

No Bongo Gil. It's just strait Rhino and plenty of muttered curses while trying to select only the parts I want to rotate. The wings can either be built folded or not, no repositioning.

As for the delicate side I'm not so sure. The front hinge is definatly delicate but I don't think it carried much load at all. I happened to arrive at Bob Odegaards workshop just as they were fitting one of the outer wings to center section and the front hinge seemed to be almost an afterthought structurally. Unfortunately I failed to think that at some future point I might like to know the diameter of the hinge pins and so didn't measure them even though I had a tape measure with me.

The hinge mounted on the main spar is pretty beefy and the pin on the bottom is also fairly substantial. When compared with aircraft structures in general which are pretty frail looking I'd say these wings look pretty tough.

Attached are a few pics from that visit as well as one showing what the whole thing should look like all put together.

Willja67

11-06-2010, 12:24 PM

Comments made in the XP-72 thread made started me thinking about how I could get it out the door. If I only made one version with none of the fancy stuff I could get it done fairly quickly.

So following that line of thought I decided to forget the folding wings and just get the Super Corsair off my desk and out the door. It's all packaged and after staying up till 2 am and a few hours of work today it's ready to go. Just have to work things out with my vendors and you guys can have at it.

ps the folding wings may be offered as an upgrade kit in the future.

Zathros

11-06-2010, 03:08 PM