Universal Carrier in 1:72 [Archive]

jmodule

10-06-2009, 02:41 PM

I had been looking around the web for a Universal Carrier paper model, but without luck. In the meantime I was trying to learn Wings3d to begin designing small scale paper models. I knew of a few scratch-built carriers on the web, one plastic (http://www.ucs.mun.ca/~tmarshal/scratch/uc.html), and one in paper (http://www.miniatures.de/carrier-universal.html). But neither had released plans to be able duplicate their work. When I found a 3-view drawing of the Universal Carrier, I decided it would be good practice to design it as a paper model myself.

My preferred scale is 1:72, and I'm working with the assumption that a certain amount of detail is better left as printed texture. I used both pictures of the real thing and scale models as references for drawing the details on the model. It was important to me that I keep the design simple enough to fold in paper, while showing the distinct features of the vehicle.

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It took me four or five tries going between Wings3d and the unfolding software, Pepakura, before I had a design that looked nice and unfolded correctly. I ended up redrawing the hull and driver's compartment a number of times, going from too complex to very simple and then adding back some complexity to the shape once I understood how Pepakura interpreted it. The suspension was simplified and the wheels were made unnaturally wide so they could be glued directly to the hull and stand up to handling.

The first two builds were made with regular copy paper. It was helpful in figuring out where the mistakes were and what could be improved. The second time I redid the suspension halfway through and so some of the road wheels are of the new style.

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The next step was to improve the textures and see if the dimensions would work with the thickness of card stock. I also printed in color to get a better feel for how the finished model would look. Although I've gone back and redesigned some parts, I'm pretty happy with the overall look.

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Comments and constructive critiques welcome.

--
Jim

RyanShort

10-06-2009, 03:37 PM

Very nicely done!

Ryan

CharlieC

10-06-2009, 04:12 PM

That came out pretty well - you've got the base for a whole raft of different vehicles. If I may make a suggestion - the carriers had a radiator grill in the centre of the driver/gunner's compartment - doesn't look as if would be too hard to add that.

Regards,

Charlie

cgutzmer

10-06-2009, 04:21 PM

excellent work! thanks for sharing it with us :)
Chris

Zakopious

10-06-2009, 09:16 PM

The Universal Carrier looks great.

I use my 1:72 scale papermodels in wargames.

Glad to see another paper vehicle designed and built.

Ken

jmodule

10-09-2009, 12:35 PM

I've been working on the graphics/textures and redesigning a few parts.

First off, I thought I would try to make a solid suspension piece, sort of a quick build version and to make it easier to scale down to 1/100 for those who might be interested when the design is finished.

27628

I also changed the overall color to match the darker green you see in museum pieces. I'm not sure how historically accurate it is, but I think it's closer to being an authentic color now.

27629

I've been surprised how difficult it is to find a picture of the interior (at least without buying a book dedicated to these vehicles). A lot of the walk-around pictures are of the outside at eye-level, and none are from above. :rolleyes: But I think I've improved the look of the interior compared to the previous test build.

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Zathros

10-09-2009, 02:36 PM

I hate to use the Plastic word, but Tamiya used to make a beautiful "Universal "Bren Gun" Carrier" that I once built. You interior looks pretty good. I wish I had the model still, but alas I gave it to a friend.

CharlieC

10-09-2009, 07:40 PM

I've been surprised how difficult it is to find a picture of the interior (at least without buying a book dedicated to these vehicles). A lot of the walk-around pictures are of the outside at eye-level, and none are from above. :rolleyes: But I think I've improved the look of the interior compared to the previous test build.

The walkarounds of the Universal Carrier at www.primeportal.net have a number of interior shots.

Regards,

Charlie

ju52man

10-09-2009, 08:40 PM

can we get these anywhere?

rickstef

10-09-2009, 08:53 PM

Ju52.

Jmodule, the designer is still working on the model, and i believe that he will let us know how he intends to distribute the model, if at all

Rick

ju52man

10-10-2009, 06:47 AM

thanx fir the info

jmodule

10-10-2009, 07:28 AM

@CharlieC: Thanks for the link. I've seen one of those walk-arounds courtesy of Google's image search, but for some reason I didn't get the other three until I drilled down from the main page.

@ju52man: I still have a while to go before the model is finished. This last build still had some mistakes where I had made some parts too short -- given the thickness of the cardstock. There are still some details I want to add to the back... but after that I intend to make the model available.

CharlieC

10-10-2009, 06:00 PM

There's an Australian pattern carrier outside an RSL club a few km from my place. The interior isn't in good shape but the suspension and transmission look ok - if you want some images just ask.

Regards,

Charlie

Don Boose

10-11-2009, 05:13 AM

This is excellent, jmodule!

You have built a fine model of a very widely-used vehicle that was, as Charlie noted, the basis for a number of other vehicles. I appreciate your showing us how you designed it.

If you ever make it available, I'd be in line to purchase this one for sure. And if not, I hope you will continue to share information on this model and that you are inspired to develop more British AFVs.

Don

jmodule

10-22-2009, 09:59 AM

I'm getting close to finishing this model. Two more test builds and I've convinced myself that I've reached the limit of detail that I would want to build on a 1/72 model. :) Printing it out on something lighter than 200 gsm paper might help, but I didn't have anything on hand to try.

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The last major piece was the hitch on the back. It's fiddly to put together, but I wanted it available as part of the kit.

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Don Boose

10-22-2009, 12:15 PM

Looks to me like a good level of detail for most modelers. Those wanting more have an excellent starting point. If you make this one available, I definitely want one!

And any other 1/72nd British AFVs you may design in the future.

Don

jmodule

10-27-2009, 07:49 AM

I'm happy to announce the kit is done and available for anyone to download here in the download section (http://www.papermodelers.com/forum/downloads.php?do=file&id=303). I hope you'll have as much fun building it as I did designing it.

I feel like I've learned a lot from this model and I'll be taking that and applying to future models. Also if anyone finds a problem with the model or something unclear in the instructions, feel free to post it in this thread (or just send me a PM). :)

Don Boose

10-28-2009, 04:28 PM

I have one under construction and hope to post pics in a couple of days. It's going together well. Excellent engineering, jmodule!

Don

jmodule

10-29-2009, 07:31 AM

Don, that will be great to see some pictures. I'm very curious how it will turn out for other people. I know what I intended, but did I communicate it clearly to others. ;)

Stev0

10-29-2009, 12:51 PM

Surprisingly, no one has tackled this in 1:33.

Great 1:72 model though!

Zakopious

11-14-2009, 08:03 PM

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/1419/16crop.jpg

The universal carrier leads a convoy.
Other vehicles are: Panhard, DUKW, BA-64, BA-6, Raupen Schlepper, Opal Blitz ambulance, Opal Blitz Truck, last but not least the Pink Panther.

Don Boose

11-16-2009, 01:02 PM

Great convoy!

I am almost finished with my somewhat lumpy model with the quick-build suspension. Just have to add the fiddly bits and then I hope to build the "real" one with the three-dimensional suspension.

I had no problems with the assembly, Jim. You have produced a very well-engineered model.

Don

jmodule

11-16-2009, 02:35 PM

I happy to see some pictures of the model being built. Thanks guys!

Don, your model looks pretty sharp, even if you don't think it's quite up to your regular standards. :) It looks like you got pretty close to the right color when covering up the white edges. Did you use paint for that?

Don Boose

11-16-2009, 03:02 PM

Jim -- The MODEL was definitely up to and far beyond my standards. It was my craftsmanship that was under par.

For coloring the edges, I used a Caran D'Ache Neocolor water soluble wax crayon as recommended by Alan Wheeler. http://www.papermodelers.com/forum/first-cuts-lounge/2870-coloring-edges-3.html

They are available from D. Blick Caran d'Ache Neocolor II Artists' Crayons - BLICK art materials (http://www.dickblick.com/products/caran-dache-neocolor-ii-artists-crayons/)

Expensive, but they last a long time and are very versatile (can be sharpened to a fine point). I also used them to cover the black dashed score lines and, to some extent, fill in small gaps. I also used a pale gray crayon to touch up the water can.

The olive drab crayon is not an exact match, but it is close enough and kind of emulates the sheen that tends to appear on the edges of military vehicles painted in matt colors.

With regard to this model, things are kind of hectic right now, but I have hopes of at least getting the fiddly bits on this one, if not get a start on the "advanced" version before departing for Cape may next Tuesday.

I really like your little model and I hope you design more British equipment of this era.

Don

jmodule

11-16-2009, 03:19 PM

The MODEL was definitely up to and far beyond my standards. It was my craftsmanship that was under par.

I guess was being to subtle in my reply. I knew you weren't criticizing the design, I was just trying to say it looks like you're doing a great job. :o Sometimes it pays to be blunt. :D

I'll definitely check out those crayons, $1.39 each is really not a bad price and I'd only need a few colors to cover most of the military genre.

cdavenport

11-16-2009, 09:20 PM

CharlieC

11-16-2009, 10:19 PM

Now you've got the base vehicle for a whole raft of possible modifications. One of my favourites is a carrier armed with a Vickers machine gun in the forward position - the Australian version had the water jacket on the gun barrel plumbed into the cooling system of the carrier. There's always the Panzerjaeger Bren - loaded with 3 Panzerschrecks and a bunch of Panzerfausts.

Regards,

Charlie

Don Boose

11-18-2009, 09:49 PM

Well, Jim, I have finished building your fine little model. I did not do justice to it (the close ups really reveal the flaws), but I enjoyed the building and I think my "fiddly bits" skills have improved as a result.

The last photo shows the model alongside the Caran D/Ache Neocolor water soluble wax crayon 249 (Olive) that I used for coloring the edges. During the basic build, I rubbed the crayon along the edges. For the lights and other small parts, I dipped a brush in water and then ran the brush along the crayon to get a thick soupy liquid and then applied it with the brush.

I used 0.010-inch brass wire for the antenna and the railing atop the engine compartment. They look a little ragged because I wanted to take the photos tonight and rushed the process of coating the brass wire with the crayon.

Perhaps I will manage to do a better job with the more complex version next week at Cape May. I also plan to build the slightly smaller Paper Tiger Armaments version of the Bren Gun Carrier.

I hope you design more armored fighting vehicles in this scale. It looks like that Horstmann suspension is the same, or very similar to that used on the Vickers light tanks (I'm sure Charlie C will weigh in here with more authoritative info). I'd love to see some of those ugly prewar tanks, like the Vicker Medium II and the Japanese Type 89. With your simplified construction and perhaps a little Kevin Stephens-style layering, the complicated suspension wouldn't be so daunting.

Anyway, many thanks for making this gem available.

Don

Clashster

11-18-2009, 10:05 PM

Nice work, Don! Cool little model and you did a nice job with it!

CharlieC

11-18-2009, 11:46 PM

I hope you design more armored fighting vehicles in this scale. It looks like that Horstmann suspension is the same, or very similar to that used on the Vickers light tanks (I'm sure Charlie C will weigh in here with more authoritative info). I'd love to see some of those ugly prewar tanks, like the Vicker Medium II and the Japanese Type 89. With your simplified construction and perhaps a little Kevin Stephens-style layering, the complicated suspension wouldn't be so daunting.

Don

The same suspension system was used on most of the Vickers light tanks from the 1930s. It was robust, cheap to make and didn't require dampers (the friction of the arms did the damping). When you look at a carrier (there's one a couple km from my place) - the simplicity and robustness of the suspension really is striking. The carriers were never criticised for their suspension - the track wear and brake lining consumption was a different story. The Medium II and Type 89 used a Vickers designed suspension but it was an older design from the 1920s.

It's a pity there aren't models of the Vickers light tanks around. Even in the pl****c world there are a couple of models of the Mark VI but none of the others.

If I can make a comment about the carrier model - to my eye it could do with a Bren gun or Boyes AT rifle sticking out the front.

I was looking at carrier images and one particularly struck me - the Germans used lots of captured carriers in all sorts of roles - including personnel transport.
However, the original carrier was a bit limited in the number of troops it could carry. The Germans hacked off the sidewalls - extended the floor plates and produced
a transport which could carry a section of troops. Admittedly the thing looked like one of those images of human pyramids when it was loaded up - guess it beat walking through the snow.

Regards,

Charlie

CharlieC

11-19-2009, 05:16 AM

Found an image of the Carrier converted to troop transport.

Regards,

Charlie

Bomarc

11-19-2009, 06:29 AM

Well, Jim, I have finished building your fine little model.

Excellent effort Don, the wire bits really add to the model. I think you should be able to move up to the "3-D" suspension with little problem. That brass wire you used wrapped around a rolled paper rod would make a pretty convincing spring in there....:)

Mike

ju52man

11-19-2009, 06:52 AM

Don Boose

11-19-2009, 08:23 AM

Charlie - Thanks for the additonal info on the suspension systems. I've always liked the look of the Vickers light tanks and would love to see them available in paper. And do you remember the Dinky cast metal Vickers Mk. II medium?

Mike - I was thinking along the same lines for the springs. I'm taking along print outs of Jim's Universal Carrier and the PTA Bren Gun Carrier to Cape May, along with the GPM Ursus truck and TK3 that I hope to build for next year's IPMC. In between birding, beach walking, writing two book reviews, building my on-line elective, and getting spun up to teach the next USAWC course, I hope to spend some time in the evenings struggling with these paper vehicles. If so, I will try to mount a Boyes AT rifle in the carrier, Charlie. I do not, however, anticipate trying to build a pyramid of troops in paper.

Will keep you informed.

Don

CharlieC

11-19-2009, 04:56 PM

Charlie - Thanks for the additonal info on the suspension systems. I've always liked the look of the Vickers light tanks and would love to see them available in paper. And do you remember the Dinky cast metal Vickers Mk. II medium?

Mike - I was thinking along the same lines for the springs.
Don

Sorry no - I remember the Dinky toys but I don't think I ever saw the tank.

If you're winding your own springs from copper wire you can get much better results by annealing the copper. To anneal copper heat it to red hot and plunge it into cold water. The difference this makes when you're winding springs is really worth it. Annealing also gets rid of the coating found on most copper wire so it's easier to paint/colour the wire.

Regards,

Charlie

Zakopious

11-20-2009, 08:29 PM

This is the universal carrier as I built it with the detailed suspension.
The real model looks much better than the close up picture.

I was impressed by the snug fit of the track over the suspension.
The track is glued to the suspension at one point only but the fit is so tight that glue was not really necessary.

The gun port in front was cut out so that a Boys antitank rifle or Bren gun can be installed in the future.

I still need to touch up the edges with olive drab or dark grey paint.
There is a lot of white showing inside the driver's compartment which should be touched up with olive drab paint.

The detail parts have not been attached yet but the vehicle could be used in a game as is.

The only part that caused me trouble was #6 because I did not know what to do with the white spot.
I put the white spot in back behind the tool box which did not work well because the tool box is too short to cover the white spot completely.

At any rate, this is a very valuable addition to the collection of 1/72 vehicles.
The 1/76 scale Airfix Bren Carrier is really slightly small for a 1/72 scale game.
http://img263.imageshack.us/i/60crop2.jpg/

Zakopious

11-20-2009, 10:03 PM

This is the picture that was supposed to be part of my last post.
http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/3913/60crop2.jpg

Don Boose

11-21-2009, 08:20 AM

Charlie -- Thanks for the additional advice. I had forgotten about the anealing process, which would also solve my problem of painting the antenna and engine compartment railing. The Dinky Medium Tank was apparently issued in 1937 as Catalogue No. 151a-G. I have only ever seen the model once, in 1959, when I visited a college friend in Toronto. His brother had a nice collection of Dinky military models, including the Medium. You can see a photo of it at Christian Boland's on-line gallery of his collection welcome to the dinky toys collection of Christiaan Boland (http://www.boland-devries.nl/dinkies/dinky-menu.html). See also 151-G, the Medium Tank set, which includes a six-wheeled lorry (called a "covered wagon" by Dinky) and support trailers. There was also a Light Tank and Light Tank Set, which are also pictured at the Boland site.

Ken -- I like your "advanced" version and have noted your comments to help my in my next build. You are correct about the white areas inside the driver's compartment. I didn't realize this until I had completed the build and then tried to paint it with my Neocolor slurry. For the next one, I will either paint that are in advance, or print out an additional copy on bond paper and laminate some olive drab. I think the white are on Part 6 is where the storage box (Part 11) attaches.

Looking at the photos of my attempt, I can see that my bad habit of scoring lines from the front did not serve me well in this build. I will use the "scoring ont he reverese side" methods set forth in another recent thread when I build the next one. I also will try Kevin Stephens's layering technique.

Jim: Your Universal Carrier has obviously made some friends. We do recommend that if you make any future modifications, you add some material to cover the lower inside of the driver's compartment. Also, on the simple version, is the right (off, or starboard) side undercarriage printed backwards, or was that my error?

Don

Bomarc

11-21-2009, 11:38 AM

If you're winding your own springs from copper wire you can get much better results by annealing the copper. To anneal copper heat it to red hot and plunge it into cold water. The difference this makes when you're winding springs is really worth it. Annealing also gets rid of the coating found on most copper wire so it's easier to paint/colour the wire.

Great tip!!

Thanks Charlie.

Mike

Zakopious

11-21-2009, 02:23 PM

Don,

You did a nice job of covering up your score lines.
I think that any fold will show some white regardless of scoring on the back or front.

I use a small, cheap, very dull, stainless-steel pocket knife for scoring.
The knife will not hold an edge but is perfect for scoring.
The cardboard back from a legal size paper tablet is under the cardstock when I score.
Thus, the cardstock is indented but not cut when scored.

After looking at the quickbuild PDF, it does appear that there are two left sides for the suspension.

It should be easy to copy the part and make a mirror image in your favorite graphics program, i.e. Gimp, Paint, etc.

As a quick and dirty experiment, I copied the part, pasted it into Paint, and did a flip/rotate in Paint and got a mirror image.
Of course, getting it to print at the correct size may be harder.

Ken

nebeltex

11-21-2009, 08:21 PM

it should be easy to fix the backwards part in paint. just use the outline square and flip it horizontal, then print the entire file after saving under a new name. scale should not be a problem...

CharlieC

11-22-2009, 07:59 PM

Just in case someone's curious about the Australian carriers...

I've just put a walkaround of an Australian Carrier with 2-Pounder gun on the AMMS Brisbane site - AMMS Brisbane (http://www.ammsbrisbane.com/reference/at_carrier.html). This version didn't enter service because the 2 Pdr gun wasn't powerful enough to take on mid-war German armour.

The lengthened hull and repositioned engine are fairly obvious changes compared to the standard carrier. There was also a 3inch Mortar carrier built on a similar chassis - some 400 of these were built in 1943-44. Most of the mortar carriers were sent to the Nationalist Chinese army. No one knows what happened to them in Chinese service.

Regards,

Charlie

Don Boose

11-22-2009, 08:26 PM

CharlieC

11-22-2009, 09:13 PM

The Australian 2-Pounder carrier was a very interesting vehicle. Thanks for this info, Charlie. I always enjoy my visits to the AMMS Brisbane site and took the liberty of reading your article on building the KV-2.

The mortar carriers in ROC service are tantalizing. We have at the Military History Institute the papers of Rothwell Brown, a man with a fascinating military career that included command of the U.S.-Chinese Provisional Tank Group in Burma in 1944 (he also spent time in Mongolia in the mid 1930s while assigned to the 15th Infantry in China, commanded the Army tank Training Detachment in India 1941, was involved with the Chinese Armor School after the war, commanded an infantry regiment in Korea in 1948 when Orlando Ward commanded the 6th Division there, and more). I can't imagine that he has anything in his papers about those elusive carriers, but one never knows.

I'm off to bed with visions of carriers dancing in my head.

Don

It would be amazing if you can find something about the mortar carriers. Both Paul Handel and Lee Reynolds (Aussie historians) have searched in China and found nothing. The PLA museum in Beijing and ROC museum in Taiwan knew nothing about them. I would have thought they were used in China since they were a light tracked vehicle which could fire a 3 inch mortar off the rear deck - the British mortar carrier required the crew to unpack and set up the mortar. The concept was much like the M113 mortar carrier.

I've attached an image of a vehicle at Corowa 2009 which is a replica of the mortar carrier (there are no surviving mortar carriers in Australia). However, it isn't the correct hull and the mortar was mounted on a rotating plate rather than on the deck plate.

Thanks for the compliment about the AMMS Brisbane site - I built and maintain it.

Regards,

Charlie

jmodule

11-23-2009, 09:09 AM

The only part that caused me trouble was #6 because I did not know what to do with the white spot.
I put the white spot in back behind the tool box which did not work well because the tool box is too short to cover the white spot completely.

Your model looks great. It looks like you found the right way to attach the box in back. I think it's slightly taller on one side, and that's the side that should go against the passenger compartment wall.

In other news... :-) I've uploaded a corrected set of files to the download section that should replace (if I did it correctly) the current files. I can't believe I missed the problem with two left sides in the quick-build suspension, since I know I had to fix it once before.

I'm glad to see people enjoying the model. I look forward to seeing any modifications you all come up with.

Keds_Girl_Lala

11-23-2009, 09:19 AM

You know also there is a Micromodels Universal Carrier in the Weapons of War or Tanks series

Don Boose

11-23-2009, 09:30 AM

Thanks for the corrections to your model, Jim. I will be able to download the corrected version just in time to take it to Cape May, where I hope to build some carriers and start on the Ursus Platforma and TK3.

The mortar carrier looks good, Charlie, even if the chassis is incorrect. Reminds me of a vehicle we had in the ARVN battalion to which I was advisor in 1966-67. It was an offshore procurement 2 1/2-ton truck with some pierced steel planking attached to the sides, a 4.2-inch mortar on a home-made revolving platform in the back, and mounts for machine guns at the corners of the bed. The battalion commander, Major Nguyen Vanh Thanh, called it his "autoblinda." If I ever find the shoe box with my Vietnam photos, I probably have a photo of that improbable contraption. It was rather like the gun trucks the Transportation Corps folks modified in Vietnam and Iraq.

Thanks for this info on another carrier model, Oksana.

Don

macadam

11-24-2009, 01:38 PM

thanks for the model, I reduced it to 2mm to foot scale looks good are you still interested in French model tanks. I did a charB1 and a french half track if your interested send me your email address and I'll send them to you.
regards Matt

jmodule

11-24-2009, 02:52 PM

I reduced it to 2mm to foot scale

So about 1:144 scale? That's pretty small. I'd love to see a picture if you get one of the completed model. I'll PM you about the French tanks, thanks.

Zakopious

11-24-2009, 09:10 PM

At the present time, I cannot find the Universal Carrier in the Download section.

Ken

CharlieC

11-24-2009, 09:44 PM

At the present time, I cannot find the Universal Carrier in the Download section.

Ken

I think it's waiting for moderator approval - the download link in this thread goes to the model but you can't download it.

Regards,

Charlie

rickstef

11-24-2009, 09:53 PM

been approved

Zakopious

11-25-2009, 08:56 AM

I got the revised quickbuild this morning.

Be advised, there have also been minor revisions to the instructions.

Ken

evandro

04-16-2012, 07:51 AM

Jmodule, many thanks to you for sharing your beautiful work!
This was my first attempt at building a paper model. I guess this one is a little too complex as a starting point. In the end I left out a lot of pieces and came out with something that does not do justice to the excellent quality of the project. But it was fun! :)

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/451/49366036.jpg
http://solounmondodicarta.wordpress.com (http://solounmondodicarta.wordpress.com/2012/04/16/the-universal-carrier/)