BKA-1124, Russian WWII River Monitor

[B-Manic]

I am almost finished the formers, this will take a while to finish. I am designing in 2D. Also the plans I have are identified as a 1125 but, are for a 1124. Fortunately that is what I wanted to design. My version will have two t34/76 1941 turrets and, possibly an opional rocket launcher

[B-Manic]

a better picture . . .

[Clashster]

Looks pretty cool! It's amazing all the varied ships that are popping up on this site! Can't wait to see your design/build!

[B-Manic]

I agree pretty cool. the former design looks good for a test build we shall see :)

[kampfflieger]

My grandfather was commander of the gun on something like this.

[macadam]

Hi Folks,
Just A Few Pictures Of A Vickers Light Tank Im Working On Hope You Like It. Still Have The Turret And A Few Other Pieces To Do.

Regards Matt

[Don Boose]

Very nice tank! Is it 1/150 scale? Don B.

[macadam]

Hi Don
Yes the tank is 1/150 scale 26mm long the drawings are can be reduded to 1/76
or smaller I would like to make them available but im not too sure how to upload them.
although I would be quite happy to email them to anyone thats interested if its easier.
Regards Matt

[B-Manic]

Here is the internal hull structure with the deck sitting on top. I have decided to mount early T-28 turrets on it and am about half way through designing one.

[Knife]

Here's some photos of a great diorama in this theme:

[Clashster]

For some reason, I always love seeing the internal formers pictures. Very cool!

[B-Manic]

Knife - That boat is the very expensive MIG plastic model of the BK-1125. They have two, one wrecked and one normal. The Russians often scuttled these boats if they were unable to withdraw. This prevented them falling into German hands. The 1125 is a shorter version of the 1124, I believe they were shortened to make them easier to transport by rail.
http://www.migproductions.com/ficheros_tienda/english/index.html

Clashter - I agree, the internal structure of these models is often as fascinating as the exterior.

Work progress on the main turrets . . .

Cheers

[Lex]

Here's some photos of a great diorama in this theme:

--That can't be a model............................................. ...

[B-Manic]

link to pix of an actual BK 1125
http://walkarounds.airforce.ru/navy/bk1125/index.htm
and a picture of a couple of 1124's doing their thing

[B-Manic]

Needs some work but is going in the right direction

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x13/b-manic_album/turret1.jpg

[Oliver Bizer]

:eek: Very beautifully. Thank you for the pictures B- Manic.
Greetings
Olli

[Clashster]

Looks great! Again, this is a very cool project!

[kooklik]

This must be an awful model. What a beautiful turret :eek:
---- kooklik ----

[B-Manic]

This must be an awful model. What a beautiful turret :eek:
---- kooklik ----

Thanks kooklik - a compliment from an accomplished designer is always appreciated.

more pix by Sunday night

[kooklik]

Wait to see more wonderful pics. Thanks for sharing

---- kooklik ----

[B-Manic]

More progress - of sorts. I may go back to my original T-34 turret plan we'll see. There is often a 12.7mm twin AA turret on top of the bridge. I'll have to find drawings for that.

http://http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x13/b-manic_album/post3.jpg

[Don Boose]

It is interesting to see the way the Russians used tank turrets on these river monitors. The British did much the same thing with their support landing craft (LCS): LCA and LCT hulls armed with guns ranging from 2 pounder tank turrets, through 17 pounder anti-tank guns and 25 pounder gun-howitzers, up to 4.7-inch guns taken from old destroyers.

U.S. Navy PT boat crews often supplemented the armament of their boats with 37mm anti-tank guns lashed to the decks. I believe that John Kennedy's PT-109 had such a gun mounted when it was cut in half by the Japanese destroyer Amagiri near Kolombangara in the Solomon Island on August 2, 1943.

Don B.

[CharlieC]

More progress - of sorts. I may go back to my original T-34 turret plan we'll see. There is often a 12.7mm twin AA turret on top of the bridge. I'll have to find drawings for that.


Looks a lot like a T-40 turret to me. I'm not sure that the DSK in the small turret would have enough elevation to engage aircraft.

Regards,

Charlie

[B-Manic]

This is the turret I am talking about.

[B-Manic]

Well I made this prototype. It looks pretty good considering in has to be scaled down about 75%. Now to see if it is buildable at that size.

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x13/b-manic_album/aagunul.jpg

[kooklik]

Very fine and pretty gun barrels. By your skill both design and build, u can make any size. Good job. :cool:
BR.
---- kooklik ----

[B-Manic]

Very fine and pretty gun barrels. By your skill both design and build, u can make any size. Good job. :cool:
BR.
---- kooklik ----

Thanks kooklik - how is your sub coming along?

[Barry]

Fantastic job

[dansls1]

Very nice turret!

[Clashster]

Looks great

[B-Manic]

Thanks for all the kind comments. I re-scaled and re-built the AA Turret. It turned out ok but needs some tweaking.

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x13/b-manic_album/post4.jpg

[shrike]

If I may, I'd like to cast my vote for the T-28 turrets. I think they have more visual appeal with all the extra fiddly-bits. And isn't extra fiddly-bits what ship modeling is all about?<G>

Have you decided if, when or how to release this as a kit?

[B-Manic]

If I may, I'd like to cast my vote for the T-28 turrets. I think they have more visual appeal with all the extra fiddly-bits. And isn't extra fiddly-bits what ship modeling is all about?<G>

Have you decided if, when or how to release this as a kit?

I'm working on the t-34 turret now. I think the kit will include both types. I like the long barrel look with the t-34 and the more complex look of the t-28 is interesting.

Hopefully the kit will include the rocket launcher as well. Then builders can choose what they like. There were about a hundred of these boats built and they featured a great variety of armament. The crews even added/replaced armament with pieces scavenged from the field of battle.

Completion date is unknown, however, I really want this model so I am highly motivated. It is my intention to make it freely available as a pdf file when complete.

cheers

[member_3]

Publishing with both turrets is a great idea! This is an interesting subject for a model as I had never heard of this type of vessel. An excellent companion for the other ongoing "riverboat" projects on this site. And thanks in advance for making these available free when completed!

[shrike]

Not remotely sure of the authenticity (I haven't watched the movie since this thread brought it to mind) but in the movie Enemy At The Gates (Jude Law, Joseph Fiennes, Ed Harris,Rachel Weisz) Kruschev (Bob Hoskins) arrived at Stalingrad in a similar river monitor.

For the airplane spotters amongst us there is a crashed Aero C-103 masquerading as a Siebel 204, masquerading, perhaps, as a He111.

[B-Manic]

Not remotely sure of the authenticity (I haven't watched the movie since this thread brought it to mind) but in the movie Enemy At The Gates (Jude Law, Joseph Fiennes, Ed Harris,Rachel Weisz) Kruschev (Bob Hoskins) arrived at Stalingrad in a similar river monitor.

For the airplane spotters amongst us there is a crashed Aero C-103 masquerading as a Siebel 204, masquerading, perhaps, as a He111.

-> The 1124s and 1125s were used extensively in providing supplies and troops to besieged Russian cities. They typically performed these tasks at night. Some crews even reinforced the bows to use the boats as icebreakers during winter months. Several boats were also involved in head-to-head battles with tanks.

[B-Manic]

I just completed the T-34/76 turret prototype option. They still need some work. As you can see the barrels are too long, the mantlet requires work and I need to figure out a better way to incorporate the stand underneath. Other than that, I think they turned out OK.

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x13/b-manic_album/t-34turret-1.jpg

[Clashster]

Nice progress! The turrents look cool despite the issues...

[cgutzmer]

The Halinksi tank I am building right now (just finished cutting the formers) has a pretty neat idea for the turret base. Its a stacked disk and collar system that you have to put in under the former then glue the turret too. I think it would work well in your application but you have to put in in before attaching the top deck formers.... This is the only tank kit I own so I dont know if others are like this or not. Can I share a copy of the build diagram for it? I dont think that would be a copyright issue..... It would be of just that one part....
Chris

[B-Manic]

The Halinksi tank I am building right now (just finished cutting the formers) has a pretty neat idea for the turret base. Its a stacked disk and collar system that you have to put in under the former then glue the turret too. I think it would work well in your application but you have to put in in before attaching the top deck formers.... This is the only tank kit I own so I dont know if others are like this or not. Can I share a copy of the build diagram for it? I dont think that would be a copyright issue..... It would be of just that one part....
Chris


Chris - Thanks, I'd appreciate that. I PM'd you my e-mail address.

Clashter - I appreciate the comment, I like the boat with this turret best.

[CharlieC]

Aki Naka has a free 1/50 T-34 on his site http://www.pluto.dti.ne.jp/~naka/ - from memory he uses a cylinder and hole system for his turret.

The stacked disk system has a disadvantage in that it has to be built very accurately for it to work properly.

Regards,

Charlie

[cgutzmer]

I hear ya on the accuracy......
Chris

[B-Manic]

I hear ya on the accuracy......
Chris

Thanks for the post Chris :)http://www.papermodelers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=669

I would have to change my formers to use that method, (un)fortunately I have some fixes to do in that area anyway. It will require a minor change compared to the nested cylinder method. The model is only about 2cm thick from keel to deck. For anyone else interested -> parts 3 and 4 are glued to each other only . . .

[Golden Bear]

Having done tests with them all I must say that the stacked disc system works out the best in the long run IMNSHO. The cylinder system can get trapped or cocked and then the gun pops off when someone tries to turn it, particularly for little guns.


Carl

[B-Manic]

Having done tests with them all I must say that the stacked disc system works out the best in the long run IMNSHO. The cylinder system can get trapped or cocked and then the gun pops off when someone tries to turn it, particularly for little guns.


Carl

I think it will be more sturdy but also eliminates the need to continously fiddle with the nested cylinders to get the turret level everytime you rotate the turret. The cylinders tend to act like a screw when you twist them causing the turret to rise, when the fit is tight. When it is loose the turret tends to slip out of position.

[Don Boose]

Lots of useful information is being presented in this thread. The river monitors with their tank turrets are fascinating craft and it has been interesting to see the various design and construction challenges discussed and overcome. There are some good insights into the horrendous fighting that the boats were involved in, as well.

The discussion of nested cylinders vs. stacked disks is worth saving, and I was glad to get the info on the 1/50 T-34 and PzKw-IV downloads. Lots of value in this thread!

Don B.

[shrike]

You could also adapt the 'bayonet' mounting used on some p*****c tank kits. Stacked disks with a set of keys and keyways to allow the turret to turn, but be removable. It would reduce the chance of glueing it permanently on accident, but provide the positive location of stacked disks.

[B-Manic]

Just an update, I recieved some very good drawings from svadim (thanks again, very much appreciated). I also got a student licence for Sketchup Pro (yeah). The new drawings show I have made some errors in the hull lines particularly around the screws (propellers in landlubber talk), so I will be moving what I have into sketchup and proceeding from there. I am also planning to scale it up, probably to 1/35 scale.

Merry Christmas - Happy Holidays - Seasons Greeting - Cheers - Splice the Main Brace

[Gharbad]

You could also adapt the 'bayonet' mounting used on some p*****c tank kits. Stacked disks with a set of keys and keyways to allow the turret to turn, but be removable. It would reduce the chance of glueing it permanently on accident, but provide the positive location of stacked disks.

I've built one or two with that system, and it is pretty good. It's hard to make it fit properly though, since there's edges of the key can get caught on the socket as you turn it.

[shrike]

Woohoo! I was hoping for a bigger scale. Put me down for a 1/35 (1/33?) kit with old style turrets for sure!

[B-Manic]

The German arms industry, seeing a down market in sales of hardware to their own
Army, is getting innovative. Any of you in the business will know that the Marines have been grumping for years about the paucity and relatively small caliber and range of naval gunfire in support of warfare in the littoral regions. The grumping really started with the retirement of the last 8in gun cruisers during Vietnam - as there simply weren't that many battleships. And now even they are gone, leaving just the 5-inch gun. The Navy has experimented with mounting MLRS launcher modules on surface combatants and continues to study the issue.

Rheinmetall has gone one further. They've just mounted the turret of the Panzer Haubitze 2000 onto a frigate.

Quoting from the brochure:
MONARC: 155mm howitzer system mounted on F124 frigate A whole new dimension in naval firepower
A pioneering concept recently unveiled by a consortium consisting of Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft (HDW), Krauss-Maffei Wegmann and Rheinmetall W&M at the HDW wharf in Kiel looks set to create a whole new dimension in surface combatant firepower.
Known as MONARC (Modular Naval Artillery Concept for Naval Gun Fire), this solution promises to increase the range and effectiveness of ship-mounted artillery and ammunition several times over. As a result, naval units now stand to benefit from the technological edge enjoyed by German industry in the field of heavy-calibre artillery systems for ground forces.
Rather than embarking on an expensive new development programme, it was decided instead to draw on a previously fielded weapons system from the cutting edge of ground forces technology. Developed with HDW acting as lead company, the concept entails mounting the turret and main armament of the PzH 2000 self-propelled howitzer � the world's most advanced 155mm artillery system � to the deck of a warship.

Source: www.thedonovoan.com (http://www.thedonovoan.com)

[CharlieC]

Sounds like a sensible solution. At least more practical than the proposed electromagnetic rail gun solution that seems to be rattling around the US defence establishment. Although if the rail gun worked I doubt the Marines would have much to complain about since the range is supposed to be 200 km with a 5" projectile.

Regards,

Charlie

[Zathros]

Remember this? Sikorsky Gunboat proposition.

[B-Manic]

Looks like ORLIK beat me to the punch