How to mix any color [Archive]

Swampfox

05-11-2010, 02:54 PM

And we're off..................

This is going to be a demo of unknown length. I'm not a teacher and I've never really tried to explain this material to anyone before.

It is based on the Michael Wilcox “Blue and Yellow don't make Green” book series that has been in publication since the mid-1980's.

Wilcox wrote this series because as an art teacher in Australia he realized that his students didn't understand why one time they would mix yellow and blue and get Olive Drab green and the next time they'd mix another yellow and blue and get Emerald green.....??!!

GREEN is GREEN isn't it? Or is it? I was just as confused as the next person and I finally got it cleared up when I took a color theory class back in the late 1980's.....

This image shows a small number of the books, workbooks, tapes, DVD's that you can spend your $$ on if you choose to delve into this subject on a really serious basis.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/thumbs/6_Wilcox_books.jpg

You might want to look at this link to the Wilcox Color Mixing System. Some of these products look new, some are definitely older (20 years or so) and might not be available any longer, even thought they are still on the site. You'll have to contact the company or your local art store to find out.

Their link: School of Color USA (http://www.schoolofcolor.com/acatalog/Home.html) . Take a look at the info on this site. It might help you get a better idea of what we're getting ourselves into.

I'll try to a make a posting every day or so but don't hold me to that schedule. I have a life in the world away from the internet and actually am away from my computer for several days at a time without checking my e-mail!! Imagine that;-)

I hope you all get whatever your looking for out of these postings. This isn't school, no grades will be handed out. I'll explain what I did and how I did it........the rest is up to you to use the info in what ever way you see fit.

Ask if you have questions..

SFX

Swampfox

05-12-2010, 08:48 AM

These are the kinds of brushes I use....All are small for the most part.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/1_2_brushes_w_covers.jpg

Keep the hairs protected with a plastic cover that usually comes with better brushes.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/3_5_brushes.jpg

For doing card model touch-ups use a medium to high quality brush, otherwise you'll spend time picking out the broken brush hair from your model.....

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/8_My_mixing_trays.jpg

These are 2 styles of paint mixing palette's I use. The one on the left is used for larger quantities of paint and came with the Wilcox course. The one on the left is the one I use 95% of the time. It's the end cap from a mailing tube.

ALWAYS try to mix your color on a white surface, any other color will 'distort' the color to your eyes.

Phil

05-12-2010, 10:23 AM

I love the color palette around all the cups.

Swampfox

05-12-2010, 10:47 AM

I love the color palette around all the cups.

This is a different view of the same style palette. It does come with a clear heavy-duty plastic cover to help protect your paint from drying out too quickly.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/large_pallete.jpg

The colors around the lip of the cups is molded into the surface and as far as I can tell, will not easily come off.

This method of arranging your colors as you mix them, is really helpful in allowing you to keep track of what your doing as far as getting to the color you want.

Also, keep in mind that this is a promo. picture. You will probably never have more than 3-4 colors in different cups at one mixing.

bagpiper

05-12-2010, 03:26 PM

Nice mate. Enjoyable reading. Thanks for taking the time to do this.

Much appreciated.

Cheers
Jim

Jim Nunn

05-13-2010, 12:12 AM

I have never learned how to use a color wheel correctly so I am really looking forward to your posts.

Jim Nunn

Swampfox

05-13-2010, 10:26 AM

I have never learned how to use a color wheel correctly so I am really looking forward to your posts.

Jim, I think I need to say something here so that you and others don't have expectations that aren't going to be met here.

This is a demo on a method of mixing several colors of paint to match an existing color.... It has nothing to do with learning how to use a color wheel, at least directly. You can apply this method to what a color wheel will tell you, but you need to find another source for Color Theory, which is what a Color Wheel is all about.

I suggest you Google "Color Theory" and spend some time looking through some of the links listed there.

I took a quick look and for basic color wheel theory I'd suggest:
WetCanvas: ArtsSchool Online: Color Theory & Mixing: 16 Lessons in Color Theory (http://www.wetcanvas.com/ArtSchool/Color/ColorTheory/)

I also use this electronic Color Wheel. It has some very useful demos and a nice digital color wheel that works well for basic use:

Color Wheel CD-ROM---- IT"S THE 2ND ITEM LISTED ON THE PAGE---, you might have to scroll to see it.

Robert Gamblin DVD, Color Wheel CD-ROM, Paint-by-Numbers CD-ROM (http://www.wetpaintart.com/Newsletter_Archive/Back_to_School_05/Technology.htm)

The Color Wheel CD-ROM™ is interactive software that includes all of the tools of Color Wheel. This software allows you to learn and understand Color Theory. Use it to mix and save colors, learn about color relationships, explore tints, tones and shades. A color theory guide is included. Sku 22005

I'm sorry that you got the wrong idea of what I plan on doing here, but it will still ultimately be a way to achieve the colors your trying to match on an existing paper model that needs final touch-up....

SFX

Swampfox

05-13-2010, 03:00 PM

One of the hardest choices to make when your considering creating a set of color mixing charts is what medium are you planning on doing the charts in? Oil, acrylics, watercolor, gouache, colored pencil, pastel, felt tip or something that you'd like to keep secret;-)

You could do several sets in different mediums, if you use different mediums when you retouch your models. However, I think that once you've done one set, you'll think twice of doing a second. A complete set of charts for one medium can take anywhere from 20-60 charts. It depends on how many different colors you want to work with.

I work with 11 different tubes of color plus white and even though I've never done every combination of 2 colors I still have 42 charts.

Why, you might ask, do I have to make a separate chart for each medium? It all depends on how picky you are when it comes to color matching.... If you are pretty lax about it, then you probably don't even need to be reading this stuff, and can do a 'close enough for government work' finish that you'll be happy with.

If you pick your paint brands carefully, all the same maker, then one set of charts will likely work just fine. If you pick Liqutex Acrylic and W/N watercolors you'll have problems matching the colors across brands.

I work(ed) in Liqutex and Golden Acrylics and DaVinci Gouache. All are water based and are easy to clean-up after use. And because of the work I use to do, I ended up making 3 sets of color charts over a period of 20 years...

For my card models I use only Gouache-----

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/8a_12_tubes_of_color.jpg

For several reasons:

1. They are fairly opaque. Takes less paint to cover an area.

2. Water soluable, easy to prepare, mix, apply and if you forget to clean your brush, much more forgiving. You can usually re-wet your brush, slosh it around in soapy water and rinse without doing too much damage to your expensive brush.

3. Because they can be re-wet you can leave the unused paint on your palette and re-use it 3 months from now and it will preform just fine. On the same note, if your finished model ever gets wet, your paint will run. But if your model gets wet, running paint will be the least of your worries!

Even if you decide some medium that I haven't mentioned, that is fine. What ever works for you or whatever your comfortable with is what you should select.. Maybe it is the best for the way you work or feel comfortable with.

Lex

05-13-2010, 03:01 PM

Thanks for taking the time to write something that goes straight into a bookmark... I'll come back to read this very often!

cgutzmer

05-13-2010, 03:19 PM

Excellent! I am so glad to get some kind of paint suggestion :) works for me and your reasons for using gouache makes sense :)
Chris

Swampfox

05-13-2010, 04:54 PM

Bomarc

05-13-2010, 05:30 PM

This is great SFX. I'm starting to rethink what (very) little I know about coloring paper models, and have learned lots just in the few beginning pages! Thanks for your efforts.

I vote for any of the various shades of olive drab one encounters in armor and A/C models.

Mike

bagpiper

05-13-2010, 05:42 PM

In order to plan some images for an upcoming post, I would like to see if there is any particular color range that you, as readers, would like to see mixed in the color mixing demo?

I have some ideas, but I'd like to hear from you.

thanks,
SFX

First off mate, many thanks for taking the time to do this. Never underestimate how your efforts, no matter how big or small, are appreciated by all.

Now I would like to see the brown range of colours. Mainly in the lighter shades but not to worried either way. I am thinking sand, roof tops, tiles kind of thing. I am thinking light tan (ish)

Cheers and good luck with this. I am sure others will add there hints and tips to yours.

Jim

bagpiper

05-13-2010, 07:10 PM

Hi SwampFox. Sorry I have another question here. Obviously you mix your paints for a reason. lol Will you be showing us the basics on how to apply the paint together with a before and after image. That would really complete the picture on colour mixing and application.

No worries if not but wanted to ask.

Cheers
Jim

Swampfox

05-13-2010, 08:27 PM

Will you be showing us the basics on how to apply the paint together with a before and after image. That would really complete the picture on colour mixing and application.

Feel free to ask away, that way I can get some kind of idea as to what your interested in as far as color mixing goes.

Do you want a before picture of a finished piece of a model and then an after retouch picture to show what the finished piece looks like with retouching?

Or are you asking for a picture of what a blank color mixing card looks like and what I do to make the color card?

Maybe both? Let me know.

SFX

cgutzmer

05-13-2010, 08:33 PM

BOTH! But especially before and after touch ups :)
Chris

bagpiper

05-14-2010, 05:33 AM

BOTH! But especially before and after touch ups :)
Chris

I agree with Chris and both would be wonderful as long as it does not eat up your time mate.

Cheers

Jim

ghshinn

05-14-2010, 07:23 AM

Anything you can do will be greatly appreciated. I'm such a putz when it comes to color, there's no way except up for me.

Garland

Swampfox

05-14-2010, 03:01 PM

I'm going to continue on with some more basic preparation.

With my comments in an earlier post about making a decision about which medium you might choose I found some additional information and links about the mediums that might be useful.

These are "traditional" definitions.

Watercolor:
Artist Quality Lightfast Paints - 37ml Watercolors (http://www.schoolofcolor.com/acatalog/WCOLOUR_37ml.html)

Present-day watercolor, is often called transparent watercolor. An important principle of transparent watercolor is never to work with white paint, which destroys the transparency, the look of the medium. Even after it is dry, it could be re-wet and removed, but is not recommended.
In our case, we do what we have to do to get what we want. If we have to add white, so be it.

Acrylics:
http://www.schoolofcolor.com/acatalog/ACRYLICS_37ml.html

Acrylic paint is fast-drying it can be diluted with water, but become water-resistant when dry. Depending on how much the paint is diluted (with water) or modified with acrylic gels, media, or pastes, the finished acrylic painting can resemble a watercolor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watercolor_painting) or an oil painting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_painting), or have its own unique characteristics not attainable with other media. Once dried, there is no easy going back. The only way to "fix" a problem is to remix and cover over the old paint.
For our use, it will for the most part be very thin and will sometimes be so thin that it will look like a watercolor wash.

Gouache:
http://www.schoolofcolor.com/acatalog/GOUCHE_37ml.html

Gouache (pronounced gawash) is an opaque watercolor. The paint is applied without much water, and you have to mix a color with white if you want to make it lighter. White is used in gouache as in oils. Like transparent watercolors, it can be re-wet and re-worked to the point of complete removal. I don't recommend this as it will usually damage the paper surface.
Miniaturists often work with gouache, and as I mentioned earlier is what I like to use for card models.

I hope this is not too much information for what your looking for, I just think it's important to have some basic knowledge of what the advantages and disadvantages of these mediums is.

I'm almost done with all this prep. stuff and we'll get down to mixing very soon.

cgutzmer

05-14-2010, 03:32 PM

its perfect as a matter of fact - not too much at all!
Thanks
Chris
p.s. hitting the art store this weekend :)

bagpiper

05-14-2010, 03:58 PM

its perfect as a matter of fact - not too much at all!
Thanks
Chris
p.s. hitting the art store this weekend :)

Am I allowed to agree with Chris twice in the same thread :D

cgutzmer

05-14-2010, 04:09 PM

You better not - you may set a precedence heh heh

Swampfox

05-14-2010, 05:08 PM

p.s. hitting the art store this weekend :)

Chris and anyone else that plans on going shopping for Paint...
for now if you do buy anything... consider these colors in whatever medium you decide to work with.

Cadmium Red Light----Orange-Red, Opaque
Quinacridone Violet----Violet-Red, Transparent
Cadmium Yellow Light----Orange-Yellow, Opaque
Hansa Yellow Light----Green-Yellow, Semi-Transparent
Cerulean Blue----Green-Blue, Opaque
Ultramarine Blue----Violet-Blue, Transparent
Phthalocyanine Blue----Green-Blue, Transparent
Phthalocyanine Green----Mid-Green, Transparent
Burnt Sienna----Neutralized Orange, Transparent
Yellow Ochre----Neutralized Orange-Yellow, Semi-Opaque
Raw Sienna----Neutralized Orange-Yellow, Semi-Transparent
Titanium White----White, Opaque

The first part is the actual color ie. Cadmium Red Light not Cadmium Red medium or anything else. If you can't find the exact name, please wait to buy.

The rest of the text next to the color..... don't worry about right now..

I'm writing explanations for all this gibberish this weekend.

Have fun.

SFX

cgutzmer

05-14-2010, 06:56 PM

printed for reference when I go :)
Thanks!

cgutzmer

05-16-2010, 02:01 PM

can you suggest a brand with these colors I can buy online? Nothing I can find in any local shops has them...
THanks!
Chris

Swampfox

05-16-2010, 02:55 PM

can you suggest a brand with these colors I can buy online? Nothing I can find in any local shops has them...
THanks!
Chris

You might look here:

Artist Quality Lightfast Paints - Gouche 37ml (http://www.schoolofcolor.com/acatalog/GOUCHE_37ml.html)
These are somewhat expensive BECAUSE they come in the 37ml tubes and that is a lot of paint.

Gouache – Gouache Paints & Art Supplies by Da Vinci Paint Company (http://www.davincipaints.com/dyn_category.php?k=81294)
is the link to the da Vinci company itself, it is the brand I use and am most familiar with.

Da Vinci Gouache (http://www.cheapjoes.com/art-supplies/4710_da-vinci-gouache.asp)
Cheapjoes is a place that many artists get their on line art supplies.

They also have stores in larger cities. Check your local listings for them, best prices usually but mostly mail order.

These are not the only brands of gouache, keep your eyes open for other brands that should work just fine.

Let me know if these help, if not, I can do some more looking.

Good luck,
SFX

cgutzmer

05-16-2010, 04:36 PM

cool - thanks will check it out :) all I could find here was reeves....
Thanks!
Chris

cgutzmer

05-16-2010, 04:57 PM

ugh - i dont want to buy that much paint - can you suggest a starter set of some kind? :)

Swampfox

05-16-2010, 05:26 PM

Let me check with an art store in Denver that does mail order and at least use to sell small tubes of the stuff.

I'll have to wait until tomorrow though.

Sorry about this problem,

SFX

cgutzmer

05-16-2010, 05:53 PM

Its not a problem at all :) I just want to make sure I get some decent quality stuff :)

Swampfox

05-17-2010, 02:24 PM

Just a quick note to anyone having trouble finding small tubes of gouache. Chris has informed me that

Savoir Faire French School Opaque Watercolor Gouache - BLICK art materials (http://www.dickblick.com/products/savoir-faire-french-school-opaque-watercolor-gouache/)

has some really nice smaller tubes at very reasonable prices. The color names don't match, but that is only a technicality, as your mixing colors not names anyway. Ignore my earlier comment about only buying specific names of color. I realized that was really not necessary for what were doing here.

The price is reasonable, and the size is such that you still have a reasonable about to makeup the color mixing charts and have some left over to use on the models.

Thanks Chris!!

cgutzmer

05-17-2010, 02:55 PM

No prob :) glad to be of service!
Thanks for this great thread!
Chris

Swampfox

05-18-2010, 09:11 AM

This is a version of the card that I used for my mixing charts. It's a bit on the large side so I'm loading it as a thumbnail that you can click on, save and print if you decide you want to use it.

It is the same exact style that the Wilcox system is based on except you buy the pre-printed sheets printed they are printed on oil canvas, watercolor, Bristol board stock......depending on your medium and painting surface.

Since we build out of our own selected card stock we will also use that same card stock to print this attached card on. If you don't like the layout your welcome to use some other design of your own choosing.

Select an enlargement/reduction scale that suites your needs and print out one or two or 20 times. ONE SIDED ONLY!!! Do not attempt to save paper by printing on both sides.

Download this image for practice.

Please DO NOT spray any kind of coating on it yet. The protective sprays some people like to put on their model inhibit the even spreading of the color when applied with bristle brushes.

Swampfox

05-18-2010, 09:32 AM

I'm including examples from the book Blue and Yellow don't make Green.

The book has dozens of pages just like this........... you ask, why not just buy the book and use the charts in it?

Several reasons:

The book is printed on a mass production press, using press colors, Cyan, Magenta, Yellow and black. There is no way that it can produce the colors close enough for our needs. It just creates an approximation of what we'll be doing.

The paper is semi-gloss, slick, book paper stock. Not even close to what the card stock most of us use.

Most important, you will not learn how to really mix the colors. The is a certain feel to usable mixed paint and you just don't get that feel by turning the pages in a book.

************************************************** *******
http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/B_Y_page_69.jpg

This looks a little different than the format of the chart I provided you with, it's been updated since I did my charts but it represents what we'll be doing. If you like this format better, then either buy a set of blank cards from Wilcox or make up your own set.

The top shows a representation of the two tubes of color used for this chart. Some version of Yellow and Red(violet) on either side of the Wilcox mixing Palette with little daubs of color placed in trays in the palette. Below that are the colors that you will mix and paint into each of the empty boxes on the mixing card.
************************************************** ********

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/B_Y_page_123.jpg
This is another page from the book, showing the use of 3 colors to get the color we want.. You should never need to use more than 3 colors to mix the color you need.
************************************************** *******

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/13_8_ways_to_OD.jpg
and these are 4 pages from my own book. Notice that if you look carefully.... these 8 charts show 7 different versions of our beloved Olive Drab;-) Seven versions of OD? Holy molly, where are we going with this?

Any questions about where we're headed here?

bagpiper

05-18-2010, 09:44 AM

cgutzmer

05-18-2010, 10:03 AM

ooff - this is gonna take a bit of digesting! :)

Swampfox

05-18-2010, 11:07 AM

WoW! I'm glad I'm not the one producing this tutorial. This is a lot of work mate. Many thanks for that. But if your the piccy sort like me, this is going to be a huge help. I know I am repeating what I said before but thanks again for doing this. Heck! All we can give you is our thanks so why not repeat myself.

Cheers mate

Jim

This is why I was somewhat reluctant to do a tutorial like this. They do take a bit of work, but at least it's for a subject I'm interested in and enjoy and it is nice to hear that people appreciate it....I've done tutorials on how to use some software and I don't even know if anyone is listening. At least here I get feedback.

Thanks,

SFX

Swampfox

05-18-2010, 11:14 AM

ooff - this is gonna take a bit of digesting! :)

This can be a very involved process, so take your time reading the explanations. Ask questions if I'm not clear with what I'm trying to explain.

If I don't do this right, it's a waste of both our time. Your not going to get these color charts in one weekend, it could take weeks or even months.

Every so often I need a color I can't find in my book, so I take time to create an whole, new mix chart to add to my color book. I started this process almost 2 decades ago and am still adding to it.

You can keep it simple or you can get crazy with it. I know an illustrator that has over 230 cards in his book. I have about 55. He's crazy and I'm just slightly nuts;-)

SFX

cgutzmer

05-18-2010, 11:42 AM

thanks! I figure its something that will be built up as new color pallets are needed :)

WVA

05-18-2010, 01:40 PM

Thank you for this thread, Swampfox! I think I will finally learn something about colors from this....after many years of trial and mostly error trying to paint or fix something.

Swampfox

05-18-2010, 02:57 PM

Thank you for this thread, Swampfox! I think I will finally learn something about colors from this....after many years of trial and mostly error trying to paint or fix something.

Your welcome. It sounds like you'd like to use this method to do traditional painting(canvas or other surface), or did I mis-understand your comment?

If you do use this mixing method, I suggest that you incorporate the use of a color wheel as this method does not delve into color theory. It is ONLY a method for matching existing color. Google color theory, or if you have an art student league, I suggest you take a course on actually using color for creating your own art work...

This method only saves you paint, it doesn't teach correct color usage.

WVA

05-19-2010, 09:59 AM

[QUOTE=Swampfox;123020]Your welcome. It sounds like you'd like to use this method to do traditional painting(canvas or other surface), or did I mis-understand your comment? QUOTE]

No, I mean for my paper models. Always have trouble with edges, no matter what medium I use. And, of course, those spots I rub the print off trying to remove errant glue!

I have dabbled in other painting, but not very successfully. Mixing colors was not the reason. On the other hand, my painting of an E2c breaking out of stormy clouds into a bright sunrise morning was announced to be "lurid" by my wife, and sent to the basement. Oh well..... so far she likes the paper models, although they make their home in the basement as well.

Swampfox

05-19-2010, 10:23 AM

No, I mean for my paper models. Always have trouble with edges, no matter what medium I use. And, of course, those spots I rub the print off trying to remove errant glue!

OK, now I understand... believe me, I too have had the same problems with my builds.

I'm always fighting with edges, they are a necessary evil of card modeling.

I'll be honest with you though, there is nothing like good, clean building technique, building area habits that prevent me from creating goof-ups in the first place. And believe me, I've made some serious messes with my builds. It has taken me many years of practice and developing an awareness of "Where my hands are, whats on my hands, where are my elbows, where's that bottle of glue, that coffee I just dripped etc. etc.

If your not screwing up a piece, your not building enough to improve on your technique. Build, build, build. That is the only way to get better..

I hope what you learn with color mixing, will be a step in improving your builds.

SFX

cgutzmer

05-19-2010, 11:42 AM

question - when you paint your edges do you paint after its completely shaped or while its still flat? Does it matter? I have no ide how flexible the paint is :)
Thanks!
Chris

Swampfox

05-19-2010, 12:49 PM

question - when you paint your edges do you paint after its completely shaped or while its still flat? Does it matter? I have no ide how flexible the paint is :)
Thanks!
Chris

Good question. After lots of experimenting, I shape, and glue ALL major components, fuselage, wings, tail pieces etc. They ARE NOT all glued to each other at this point. After the glue has dried for 24 hours, allowing the glue to harden and make the paper more resistant to damage by moisture, I trim edges where necessary so that they are flush and then I do whatever painting I can.

There are times that it is difficult to get to an area on a piece after the components are all glued to each other so doing the touch-up at this time is best for me.

Try it whatever way you think will work for you and if it works....keep that approach. If it doesn't, change the approach next build.

Does this answer your question?

SFX

cgutzmer

05-19-2010, 12:57 PM

close enough :) give me a place to start!
Thanks
Chris

Swampfox

05-19-2010, 08:09 PM

We're getting close, sorry this is taking so long, it's a bit more complex than I'd expected. If digital cameras didn't exist, I have no idea how we could do this stuff.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/no_4_brush_for_charts.jpg
I use a no.4 Flat brush for painting the colors onto the color mixing card. You can use what ever works. I just mention the size, because if I don't, someone will want to know. This just saves them the trouble of having to ask.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/Raw_Sienna_Cerulean_Blue.jpg
When I asked last week for suggestions about what color range people wanted to see mixed, I got answers of Browns and Olive Drabs. I looked at my color charts and there are actually several groups of 2 colors that will pass through both of these 2 as we mix them.
Certain yellow-oranges and blue-greens will serve us well for these two requests.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/3_cups_H2O.jpg
3 or more cups of water to help keep brushes clean and prevent cross contamination of the colors as we mix each sample.

I haven't quite figured out how I'm going to do this live and take pictures as each step is completed. I've always just started and moved quickly from sample to sample as I work my way through this process.
SO.......... I might not be posting for a day or two, until I get this part worked out

bagpiper

05-19-2010, 08:18 PM

You are indeed an expert in this field SwampFox and it shows in this tutorial. Thanks for going into the smallest of details such as brush size. As you said, someone will ask. Anyhoo nice going thus far.

Cheers
Jim

cgutzmer

05-20-2010, 05:04 AM

I use a no.4 Flat brush for painting the colors onto the color mixing card. You can use what ever works. I just mention the size, because if I don't, someone will want to know. This just saves them the trouble of having to ask.

Uh-oh, he's on to me...... ;)

For picture taking many times you could possibly set the camera on a mini tripod really close and in the proper angle for your pic and just reach over and hit the button? Might work, might not :)
Chris

Swampfox

05-20-2010, 09:49 AM

For picture taking many times you could possibly set the camera on a mini tripod really close and in the proper angle for your pic and just reach over and hit the button? Might work, might not :)
Chris

Thanks for the idea.......if my request for help from my wife falls through, that will be my next hope. I have the lights, table, and other tools all set-up ready to go. Now it's just a matter of the two of us finding the right time to get this going.

Swampfox

05-21-2010, 03:27 PM

I was able to get the help of Mrs. Swampfox (aka Ellen), she did an excellent job taking the picts. There is no doubt she can push a shutter button with the best of them;-)

************************************************** *******

I'm starting out on a clean, uncluttered work area. Reasonably flat, with good lighting.

My paint brush, 3 or more tubs of clean water, 4-6 paper towels, or cloth towels if you so desire.

Start with ONLY 3 tubes of what ever color medium you selected for your own color charts. They can be ANY 2 distinct colors + a tube of white. shown below
http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/Tube_of_T_white1.jpg

and Raw Sienna (orange-yellow) and Cerulean Blue (Green-blue) shown below
http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/Raw_Sienna_Cerulean_Blue.jpg
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++
http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/1_Place_colors1.jpg
Place a dab of paint, about the size of a US Nickel (~20mm) from each tube around the edge of your palette, fairly equally spaced from each other, as shown above.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/2_Always_wet_brush_before_paint1.jpg
ALWAYS, before ever putting paint onto your brush, wet the brush and, using your fingers, work the liquid into the bristles. This way they will not break off the tip and your brush will last much longer.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++

At this point I need some advice. Are the last 2 pictures I posted above, large enough for you to see reasonable detail? Should they be larger, smaller any other suggestions before I really get into the color mixing part?

I'll wait to get several replies, as I don't want to have to redo these images....

SFX

cgutzmer

05-21-2010, 03:51 PM

these work for me :)
Thanks!
Chris

WVA

05-21-2010, 03:57 PM

Looks good here!

Lex

05-21-2010, 06:55 PM

Photos are great enough. Thank you and Ellen for taking the time

Mind a small question at this stage... I am under the impression that colour mixing is a small-quantity operation, and so how is consistency between different mixes achieved? Pure practice? Or is there something more technical to this?

Swampfox

05-21-2010, 07:34 PM

Mind a small question at this stage... I am under the impression that colour mixing is a small-quantity operation, and so how is consistency between different mixes achieved? Pure practice? Or is there something more technical to this?

I'm not sure I understand your question with regard to the quantity of paint used. Are you asking about the amount of paint used in creating the color mix charts or for ultimate use on a model?

If for the color charts.-- once you create the color samples for the colors on either end of the chart, you select one of the puddles of color and add the other color to that entire puddle of paint.

As you work across the chart, your always adding color to that 1st puddle. Eventually you'll add so much of the 2nd color, that you'll pretty much have worked your way across CLOSE to that 2nd color.

I don't know if this is the question your asking, it should become clear as I start posting the actual photos showing the process.

Let me know if I need to clarify more.

bagpiper

05-21-2010, 07:40 PM

I'm not sure I understand your question with regard to the quantity of paint used. Are you asking about the amount of paint used in creating the color mix charts or for ultimate use on a model?

If for the color charts.-- once you create the color samples for the colors on either end of the chart, you select one of the puddles of color and add the other color to that entire puddle of paint.

As you work across the chart, your always adding color to that 1st puddle. Eventually you'll add so much of the 2nd color, that you'll pretty much have worked your way across CLOSE to that 2nd color.

I don't know if this is the question your asking, it should become clear as I start posting the actual photos showing the process.

Let me know if I need to clarify more.

Hi SwampFox. Sounds like he's stating that mixing paint is generally only done in small quantities. As needed. How do you get consistency from one batch of colour mix to the next batch of colour mix. So that each and every time you do a colour mix, the colour is exactly the same as the batch you mixed before. I don't think he understands the chart that you produced in order to control the amount of paint used in each mix yet.

Cheers.

Jim

Swampfox

05-21-2010, 07:45 PM

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/1_brush_in_blue_paint.jpg
With water on your brush, dip the brush into the blue color, get it reasonably covered in color.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/2_1st_stroke.jpg
Begin filling the large sample space at the upper left corner of the blank mixing card.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/3_2nd_stroke.jpg
Apply the paint NOT worrying if it is really going on all that smooth, that is not important.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/4_turn_paper.jpg
Rotate the card if you want to, sometimes it's easier to apply the paint.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/6_even_out_color.jpg
Fill in the block as well as reasonable, don't worry if it's not even and perfect (you'll never get this finished if you get too picky about it!) I'm serious. Do not be concerned if the paint isn't nice and even.

One quick addition, if your going to try to follow along as we do this, MAKE SURE to wash your brush when you finish this step. Otherwise, it is probably best to read through the entire process before you try this on your own.

Just ask questions as we go along. I'll be going back and checking for comments or questions.

Swampfox

05-21-2010, 07:56 PM

Hi SwampFox. Sounds like he's stating that mixing paint is generally only done in small quantities. As needed. How do you get consistency from one batch of colour mix to the next batch of colour mix. So that each and every time you do a colour mix, the colour is exactly the same as the batch you mixed before. I don't think he understands the chart that you produced in order to control the amount of paint used in each mix yet.

I think I see what your saying Jim.

I have never had to mix very large amounts of color for retouching. Also, with water based colors: Watercolors and gouache for example, all you need to do is re-wet your original mix and carry on with your retouching. If your using Acrylics, there are special acrylic palettes that will keep acrylic paint usable for months, if used correctly.

As far as mixing large quantities go. What do you consider "LARGE" quantities? And can you give me an example of why you'd want to mix large amounts?

Typically, I only mix enough color for retouching one model at a time and I use very tiny amounts of color when doing so.

Let me know your concerns here.

whulsey

05-22-2010, 12:49 AM

Great tutorial. To add a note about acrylics: Isopropyl (rubbing) alcohol is a solvent for it in case you let a brush dry out or get it on something like the desktop, carpet, etc. The 91% works best.

solo67

05-22-2010, 02:43 AM

Thank you for this tutorial ...it is going to be most helpfull i am shour.
i have allways wanted to know how to do this right...and not waste
so much color on trile and erras that most of the time get you close but not close enough but meny other times you end up with something that
is not so useable .
question: one of the termes i encounter with as for color quantitys and mixing is drops....what is that all about? how do you measure a drop and with what?
looking forward for the rest of this Tutorial.
moshe.

Bomarc

05-22-2010, 06:23 AM

I love the way a "classroom" atmosphere is developing in this thread. I taught at the University level for a few years, and even at that level, it can be tiresome at times.

You're a good and patient instructor Mr. SwampFox, my hat's off to you.....

Mike

ghshinn

05-22-2010, 08:38 AM

Wonderful! Keep going. Great information.

Garland

Swampfox

05-22-2010, 09:57 AM

Great tutorial. To add a note about acrylics: Isopropyl (rubbing) alcohol is a solvent for it in case you let a brush dry out or get it on something like the desktop, carpet, etc. The 91% works best.

Your right, it's been a while since I used Acrylics and Isopropyl is great for cleaning up dried out brushes. It's also useful for thinning out really thick acrylic paint out of the tube, but be aware that it also tends to evaporate quickly and dry out even faster. So, move fast!!

Swampfox

05-22-2010, 10:09 AM

question: one of the termes i encounter with as for color quantitys and mixing is drops....what is that all about? how do you measure a drop and with what? moshe.

This sounds like a technique used by museum restoration workers, when they are trying to match old paintings that are damaged and are trying to repair them.

They are usually trying to match an existing formula that was found in old manuscripts in hopes of getting close to what the original artist used on the painting.

What I'm showing you is a much simpler approach that depends a lot on your own ability to tell one color from the other, not what the director of the museum thinks.

They do use an eye dropper to add drops of water and they use a milligram scale to measure the amount of paint mixed with the water. We have no need for that kind of precision.

Our method is will be to find the color chart that is closest to the color your trying to match and then using the 2 main colors and white hopefully zero in on the final color as determined by your own eyes.

There are no formulas with what we are doing. WE DON'T NEED THEM.

Swampfox

05-22-2010, 10:11 AM

Bomarc and gsshinn thanks for your comments, I'm glad that your finding this tutorial useful.

Onward.............

Swampfox

05-22-2010, 10:53 AM

Continuing on from the last step.........
http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/01_rinse_brush_in_clean_water.jpg
Make sure the brush is wet with water,

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/02_paint_4_1st_small_box.jpg
Pick up some blue paint and put it someplace between the blue and white dabs of paint. Actually a little closer to the white dab than what I did in this picture would be fine.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/03_wipe_brush_on_towel.jpg
Rinse and wipe the brush

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/04_show_wt_on_brush_4_2nd_blue_box.jpg
Pick up a small amount of white paint on the brush. No more than what is shown in the image.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/05_add_white_2_palette_4_2nd_blue_box.jpg
Add the white paint to the blue that you just placed earlier and mix them completely.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/06_show_color_mix_2nd_blue_box.jpg
Take up a small amount on the brush and.....

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/07_fin_2nd_blue_box.jpg
Fill in the small box directly below the larger "pure" blue box.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/08_mix_color_last_blue_box.jpg
Take up another small amount of white paint, mix it into the last color you just mixed and...

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/09_finish_last_blue_box.jpg
Fill in the last blue box with that lightest color. I am applying the paint to the box with card upside down only because it was easier to get a picture of the process. Do what works best for you.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/10_finish_1st_color_set.jpg
Your first set of color samples should look something like this. If there is not much difference between the samples, and your using Gouache, you can add a "TINY" amount of white to a clean damp brush and 'add' the white to the already painted sample. This will not work as well with transparent watercolors and not at all with acrylics.

REMEMBER to
http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/11_final_rinse.jpg
Rinse your brush in clean water before putting it down.

Swampfox

05-22-2010, 02:30 PM

Now comes the next color Raw Sienna, an Orange-Yellow color.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/01_dip_brush_in_o-y_paint.jpg
Take up a small amount

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/02_o-y_paint_on_brush.jpg
on your brush and

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/03_start_fill_in_large_o-y_box.jpg
start filling in the empty box on the OPPOSITE or far side from the boxes with the blue paint samples.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/04_fill_in_large_o-y_box.jpg
Fill it in reasonable well, doesn't have to be perfect.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/05_finished_o-y_large_box.jpg
Finish filling in.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/06_2nd_o-y_box.jpg
As with the blue, add a little white to a small portion of the Raw Sienna and fill in the small box below the sample of "pure" tube color.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/07_last_o-y_box.jpg
And once again, add a little more white and fill in the bottom box.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/08_orng_yellow_finished.jpg
This is roughly what it should look like.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/09_end_pts_of_our_mix.jpg
At this point you have the start and end colors of what your first card will look like. Remember, you can reverse these color positions if you prefer. In other words, blue on far right orange on far left. IT MAKES NO difference.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/10_Clean_dif_colors_in_dif_water_jars.jpg

At this point you should have some dirty water. Rinse the brush in the clean one.

Lex

05-22-2010, 06:19 PM

Thanks! Great information regarding re-wetting, never thought about that before. I shall keep following this tutorial closely

Swampfox

05-22-2010, 07:08 PM

Thanks! Great information regarding re-wetting, never thought about that before.

Just don't get too carried away with too much re-wetting. It can damage the paper fibers if it get too saturated. Too little is better than too much.

Glad your finding the tutorial useful.

SFX

cgutzmer

05-23-2010, 09:01 AM

thanks SFX this is really helpful!
Chris

Swampfox

05-23-2010, 09:22 AM

Time to move on to the first real mix of colors.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/01_lit_RS_on_brush.jpg
I've picked up a "small" unmeasured, amount of the Orange-Yellow color on the brush. If you look carefully it is there. Very small amount.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/02_mix_w_blue.jpg
I mix it with a sample of blue, or if you want, you can mix it with ALL of the remaining large puddle of blue. I do it both ways when I'm making a new color mix chart. I just thought it would be more obvious a color change for you to be able to see.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/03_begin_apply_2_card.jpg
Once it is well mixed, fill in the largest box next to the blue side of the card.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/04_continue_apply_2_card.jpg
Again, don't be too concerned if it's not perfect.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/05_finished_block.jpg
This is roughly what it should look like, your colors don't have to match mine but the newly mixed color should be bluer than yellower.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/01_final_rinse_in_clean_water.jpg
Rinse and wipe your brush of color and

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/01_add_little_white.jpg
Dip it into the the white puddle (note that I've gotten the white a little contaminated with blue from the previous mix.) Since it's the same color series I'm going to be mixing it with in another second, I don't worry about it. If it was a whole other color series I was going to mix it with, I'd make sure to pick my white from a "clean" part of the puddle.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/02_mix_w_upper_color.jpg
Mix the white with the color from the above box, it should look lighter.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/03_apply_2_color_card.jpg
Apply to the smaller box below the bigger filled box.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/04_finished.jpg
By now, you should be getting the hang of this process. It's not hard, just tedious and somewhat boring. Next step........

Rinse and wipe your brush then.....
http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/01_add_white.jpg
pick up a small amount of white,

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/02_mix_in_white.jpg
mix it into the previously mixed sample and

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/03_apply_2_color_card1.jpg
place it in the next sample box below the previous two samples.

I hope that at this point you are seeing the method here. I know it's not very exciting and in the end you may not think it's worth the effort. That's your decision. From here on out I'm going to be much less detailed in the steps, but I can tell you that the Olive Drabs are just around the corner.

Within the next step or two you should start seeing OD starting to show it self in the mixes. Something like
http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/03_close_up_olive_Drab.jpg
this. Notice that my colors are not nice and smooth, but this actually helps me see what kind of differences the same color can give me, depending on how light or heavy it is applied?

At this point I'm going to stop the step by step and show you what my completed card looks like in the next posting.

Remember to
http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/01_final_rinse_in_clean_water.jpg
Wash and rinse your brush and

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/06_wipe_brush.jpg
dry it off when your finished.

bagpiper

05-23-2010, 09:29 AM

Swampfox

05-23-2010, 09:56 AM

Wonderful mate. I had a question in regards to the non-quantified "small amount". Is this just something that you judge for yourself in each case and eventually you get a feel for how much a "small amount" is? This seems a wee bit random for me to judge each time but I have not yet tried this so it me be something you get tuned into. Thanks again for this.

Cheers
Jim

The reason it is not measured is that we're mixing by hand, and it is impossible to give an accurate amount for this step. All you want to see is that when you add a 'small' amount of white that the color changes in a certain direction.

And yes, over time, and experimenting, you get a feel for how much to add to each sample. NONE of our color cards would look exactly the same even if we were all using the same, media, brand etc.

ALWAYS start with LESS white than you think you'll need, because every color has certain characteristics that make it more or less Opaque, more or less transparent, moderately strong or weak, very strong or weak etc.... Because of these differences in each color, the same amount of white will have a different effect on the way the mixed sample looks to you.

This method requires that YOU, the user, be the one to decide when it looks right. The human eye and brain are remarkable at detecting the tiniest difference in color. We may not know why something doesn't look right or wrong, but with this method, we can compare color cards and SEE for ourselves that one color is a little CLOSER to what we want than the other. Once that has been determined it is basically a matter of mixing small amounts of color to remix the colors on the cards.

This does take some practice to get to the point of how to best approach the final choice, but with experience it does happen.

Another issue, as your apply the color it will look darker, lighter or the same, once it dries. So you may have to wait until your mix dries to make sure that it's going to match the dry sample.

Confused? Give it some time and it will become clear to you.

bagpiper

05-23-2010, 10:01 AM

...Confused? Give it some time and it will become clear to you.

Nope! When you answer a question you always give a good and clear answer that I can always understand. Much appreciated - as always. :)

Cheers
Jim

Swampfox

05-23-2010, 03:06 PM

When your finished filling all the boxes your card should look something like the image below
http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/FINAL_color_mixing_card_demo_.jpgKeep in mind it WILL NOT look exactly like this. Your colors wouldn't match mine, yours will probably look smoother and more consistent because you spent more time making it look perfect;-) I told you not to do that!!

Notice that I have written notes to myself as a reminder of what I've done. Brand Names, Common name of color (Raw Sienna for example), comments about the opacity or transparency, the strength or weakness of the colors. They mean nothing to anyone but me, because I measure these relative to what my own experience with color has been in my own personal life.

Your welcome to copy them onto your card, but I doubt they'll mean anything of value to you in 3 years. You need to make comments that are of meaning to you. The brand name YOU used, the common name of the color you used would be a good place to start.

Or none if you so desire.

Also in the lower right corner there is the comment "White added to tints". You should at least add that to the card. It tells you that you added white paint to the smaller sample boxes so that you will remember to do that again down the road. (By the way, when you add WHITE to ANY existing color, your making a TINT of that color.)

If you do something to make a color darker your making a SHADE of that color. We didn't do that in this tutorial because that gets into color theory and that's a whole other mess to deal with.

This is basically the process you will follow for making any other color charts for your color mixing book.

I have a few more things to show you and to make comments on. I need to get a few more images prepared.

Swampfox

05-23-2010, 06:03 PM

I've taken 5 out of 9 pages in my own color mix book, that show different ways of getting to some interesting browns and Olive Drab looking colors.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/Strip_my_color_book_w_addflat.jpg

If you look carefully, you'll see at least one example and as many as 4, maybe 5 examples of OD in each of the sets. Keep in mind that every one of these is a different OD. I have 4 other charts that show only one OD possibility so I didn't bother including them.

Notice how in some cases the OD comes and goes in one mixing, in others it sticks around for a while.

These charts also help you understand that a color can come from many different directions and why it can be difficult to "track down" a particular tone of a color.

Any questions about mixing that you want to ask, please do.

Next step I'll be showing how to match an actual color sample to a part of a card model and how to handle the application of color to the surface.

rman

05-23-2010, 06:15 PM

Really nice info. Thanks for taking the time to help us learn about the mixing of colors.

bagpiper

05-23-2010, 06:29 PM

And this was done with two colours and white to lighten the shade. That is just incredible. I only ever imagined you mix yellow and blue you get green. you add white and you get light green - end of story. So much for what I know. This is a real eye opener. I also realize I don't need to buy a thousand tubes of paint. Mix and blend mate, mix and blend.

A very big thank you for your efforts on this. It will take a little while to soak up all the wonderful information but this is invaluable.

Cheers mate.

Jim

cgutzmer

05-24-2010, 07:11 AM

I totally somehow missed this final post! Thanks a bunch :) this will really help :)

Lex

05-24-2010, 03:28 PM

Swampfox

05-24-2010, 04:28 PM

cgutzmer

05-25-2010, 09:43 AM

rbeach84

05-25-2010, 11:41 AM

This post helped a great lot, for the least it shows why would one be in need of such a chart this badly......

A question about acrylics. Are they diluted/dissolved with water? I've been painting plastic models with (revell's modelling) acrylic for some time, and dripping water on them after they dry didn't seem to do anything. Is that a totally different type of material? Or am I missing something?
Lex, I know from my own research that "acrylics" refer to a paint composed of a colored polymer (i.e., plastic) that "chains up" when it cures. The polymer is kept liquid (by keeping the polymer chains from forming) by the 'carrier' component, which is usually water (H2O) based, hence the water (and alcohol) cleanup. While enamels and lacquer-based paints work through "deposition" of their color pigments (as do oils & watercolors), acrylics are essentially forming a 'film', which is why they tend to 'rip' if abraided. While some paints will form a chemical bond to the substrate material (as will lacquers to plastics) through (usually) a solvent action, acrylics (and often enamels) rely on mechanical adhesion. This is why slightly roughened surfaces are recommended for such paints. And, of course, 'soaking' into the substrate makes for a good mechanical bond!;)

There is another class of 'polmerizing' paint films, the epoxy types, that actually undergo a chemical reaction to change from liquid to 'solid'. These are typical resin reactions requiring the epoxy and a catalyst to 'set', but these are not normally used in modeling (not hobby modeling in any case...) because of the complexity, shelf-life and toxicity issues.

Hope info this is useful, or at least interesting...

Thanks again for sharing you mixing techniques, SFX! You've done an excellent job, nicely balanced and clear.

cgutzmer

05-25-2010, 03:07 PM

Swampfox

05-25-2010, 03:51 PM

ok - I have a question... It looks like you start mixing say little bits of yellow into a puddle of blue. Do you KEEP mixing little bits of yellow all the way across until you get back to yellow? It seems like that would leave it pretty muddied. Wouldnt it make a more accurate color card if you mixed yellow into blue half way across then started with fresh colors working back the other way to the mid point?
Thanks!
Chris
p.s. hope that made sense!

It makes perfect sense. I didn't mention this because it depends on the medium and colors your using. Some of you will experience this, others not. There are some very intense colors that this can be a problem with and there are some very weak colors that this can be a problem with.

This observation you just made is one of those notes you make to yourself on the character of the individual color. Something like "very strong/weak tinting ability. Takes very little to have great affect or takes a lot to have any affect". Remember, these are YOUR observations.

I suggested that you "START" with "little bits". You may have a color that is weak in it's ability to have any affect on the 1st color, you might have to switch to "BIGGER" bits if this is the case.

There are two ways to get past this. Keep adding more of the 2nd color if you want a more consistant gradation from one end of the card to the other, or go ahead and start working from the other end with a fresh puddle of the 2nd color, adding the 1st color in the same fashion. The result will depend on how 'strong' that other color is..........another observation to add to the list!!

Also, you should NEVER get all the way BACK to (Yellow)/your 2nd color. You don't need to, because it's already sitting there in the box at the other end of the chart.

Either way, you'll have useful information about the way the colors mix.

Let me know if this makes sense to you?

SFX

cgutzmer

05-25-2010, 06:10 PM

Swampfox

05-25-2010, 06:28 PM

yes, it makes sense of course :) I was just wondering about better representation of the colors showing true because if I were to look back on the chart in 5 years I might not recall which side I started with and I could use considerably less paint if I start from the proper side :)

well of course it probably shouldnt matter - maybe ;) but that depends on the colors again! DOH! heh heh this is fun!
Chris

It shouldn't matter. I don't remember which side I started on after 20 years. BUT I do know that the color I want is in there somewhere;-)

What I do is mix a small amount, noting roughly what amount of which I use to get back to the color I want. Then, I mix up a larger batch using what I just figured out.

And remember, with gouache, you don't throw it away, sure cover it if you want to keep it damp, but all you need to do tomorrow, or whenever is to re-wet it and carry on (assuming your still working on the same model or if really lucky one with the same color!!

Bottom line, if you think it will make a difference to know which side you started on.......... put it down in your personal notes!!

cgutzmer

05-25-2010, 07:32 PM

cgutzmer

05-25-2010, 08:17 PM

Swampfox

05-25-2010, 09:03 PM

uuuhhhhh sorry - yet another question!

Can you tell us the first color card combos we should make up that will likely lead us to the most initial variation? For instance, I have the 20 paint set and as you may know (or may not) I am building a blue nose p-51 mustang. With no color cards under my belt I am unsure where to start to try and match up that shade of blue!
Thanks
Chris

I've been thinking of producing a list of the most likely color groups that modelers might want......

OD is #1 of combos I plan on providing.

Blue was not one I had considered, but, can you provide me with at least a partial scan of some of the blue surface your concerned with and I'll see what I can come up with. (PM me a pdf or jpg so I can have something to look at.

SFX

Swampfox

05-26-2010, 09:31 AM

another question sorry -

can I see a pic of your paint tray (where you are mixing the paints) when you are done making a color sheet? It would help me understand the process you take a lot better :) I am a very visual learner!
Thanks
Chris

I'm not sure this is going to be helpful to you. Because I was trying to keep the picts small/reasonable size, I only mixed 4 colors, washed the palette off and then mixed the next batch etc............

BUT, I only took one picture of the first mix, because I figured...............nobody would really care.

So. for what it's worth,
http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/01_keep_colors_seperate_on_palette.jpg
This is the only pict I took of the whole process........... Sorry, but this is the only pict of a dirty palette I've ever taken....... Who coulda' known?

SFX

cgutzmer

05-26-2010, 09:48 AM

I am involved - be prepared for the unexpected ;)
Chris

Swampfox

05-26-2010, 02:10 PM

OK, anyone that is planning on actually creating your own set of color charts, now that you've seen what's involved.........

I need some info from you.

I've been asked to suggest a list of colors that I would recommend that you might want to use in creating your 2 color charts from. Since different manufactures of paint label their tubes differently from one another I don't have a clue what colors each of you is using.

For example some brands use the accepted "traditional names" on their tubes......Ultramarine Blue, Cadmium Red Light, Burnt Sienna etc....others use Blue#1, Red#2, Green#2 etc........ whatever it's called, I'd like to know.

Could you, if you can find the time, send me a list of the colors your planning on using for this exercise? Hopefully I can put together a reasonable list of color combos you should consider for the charts.

I'm in no rush for this info. but some of your fellow modelers may be, so please take a moment and post your lists.

SFX

cgutzmer

05-26-2010, 02:57 PM

Here is mine :)
Primary Yellow
Lemon Yellow
Bright Orange
Vermilion Red
Rose Magenta
Primary Red
Carmine Red
Yellow Ochre
Deep Violet
Primary Blue
Ultramarine Blue
Cobalt Blue
Turquoise Blue
Light Green
Permanent Green
Emerald Green
Burnt Sienna
Burnt Umber
Ivory Black
Bright White.

Bomarc

05-27-2010, 07:06 AM

Hey all!
Airdave made a free downloadable color chart that you can grab from my shop. If you dont buy anything else please choose cash/check and I will manually approve the purchase when I am on next :)
Thanks Dave!

Color Mixing Template by Dave Winfield - ECardmodels.com Shop - Downloadable models and crafts for (http://ecardmodels.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=1450)

Chris

Ooops! I did the same thing. Guess I've been falling behind on this thread.

Well, not to waste effort, I'll upload mine to the "Self Help" area of the download section here.

Mike

ghshinn

05-27-2010, 08:08 AM

I'm afraid I'm not able to purchase the paints just yet. But I've been following this thread avidly, and would like to thank you for all the great information. When I get a little ahead, I'll give the mixing procedure a try. Thanks again.

Garland

Swampfox

05-27-2010, 07:55 PM

I'm ready to continue this tutorial to show you how to color match you model, using the color mixing charts you've created.

I asked several days ago what the names of the paint colors you've bought so that I can create some kind of list for the 2 color mixes that you should concentrate on for your color mixing charts.

I received a couple of lists and from these I've been able to, I hope, match their names to the names of colors I used.

I selected about a dozen and here they are:

Lemon Yellow (Hansa Yellow?)
Yellow Ochre
Primary Yellow (Cadmium Yellow?)
Primary Red (Cadmium Red Light?)
Primary Blue (Cerulean Blue?)
Rose Magenta (Quin Violet?)
Ultramarine Blue
Vermilion Red
Emerald Green (Phtalo Green?)
Permanent Green
Burnt Sienna
Bright White (Titanium White?)

This list is only a suggestion and only you can really decide what you'd like to try. If you have 25 colors and want to use all 25, I actually think that would give you an even greater range of colors to select from when your trying to match to an existing model. But these are the ones that should benefit you most for this kind of work.

Just a quick note on the list;

Example: Ultramarine Blue with no (*****) following. This is the same color name that I used. It is a traditional paint name/color that most manufacturers have a specific formula to create.

Example: Primary Yellow (Cadmium Yellow?), with an additional name in (****), means that I used Cadmium Yellow in my charts but I believe that "Primary Yellow" is probably very close. It's fine if it's not right on because you'll still have a color chart that will give you some very similar colors to select from.

What if you don't have either of the colors on the list? It would probably be best to try and find them somewhere, somehow. But if you still can't you'll still be able to create the charts to match YOUR colors. In the end, that's all that counts is to have charts for YOUR colors.

I will be posting several shorter and sometimes longer posts over the next several days. There are lots of pictures and I have to prepare each one by resizing, and several other photographic steps so that I don't spend the rest of the summer uploading images to this posting. Sometimes it might be several days before my next posting but I'm doing my best to get this to you in a timely fashion.

SFX

Swampfox

05-28-2010, 02:34 PM

Hi everyone, I know this is a lot of reading but you really don't have to read this in detail right now. The best thing to do is print this posting to your printer and use it as a reference for the day you finally decide to make your own charts. It starts with a list of the only 12 colors I EVERY use for mixing colors.

Cadmium Red Light
Quinacridone Violet
Cadmium Yellow Light
Hansa Yellow Light
Cerulean Blue
Ultramarine Blue
Phthalocyanine Blue
Phthalocyanine Green
Burnt Sienna
Yellow Ochre
Raw Sienna
Titanium White

What follows are suggestions I can make when you want to mix different color groups.

To mix some interesting Olive Drabs try:

~Raw Sienna + Phthalo Green
~Raw Sienna + Cerulean Blue
~Raw Sienna + Ultramarine Blue
~Raw Sienna + Phthalo Blue
~Yellow Ochre+ Phthalo Green
~Cadmium Yellow Light + Cerulean Blue
~Hansa Yellow Light + Ultramarine Blue
~Cadmium Yellow Light+ Ultramarine Blue

NOTE: All of the above combinations also produce some really great browns and some excellent greens, so your getting 3 for the price of one!!

For some really beautiful intense, brilliant greens try:

~Hansa Yellow Light + Phthalo Green
~Hansa Yellow Light + Cerulean Blue
~Cadmium Yellow Light + Cerulean Blue
~Hansa Yellow Light + Phthalo Blue

Of course these mixes also yield some really stunning Yellows, and blues so don't forget to look at ALL of the colors your creating!!

These will produce some very drab and very bright violets and purples, try:
~Cadmium Red Light + Phthalo Blue
~Cadmium Red Light + Cerulean Blue
~Cadmium Red Light + Ultramarine Blue

Again, pay attention to the Reds and Blues that these produce!

Now for some Oranges, try:
~Cadmium Yellow Light + Cadmium Red Light
~Hansa Yellow Light + Cadmium Red Light

Also note the interesting Yellows and Reds these 2 can create.

Finally, anyone notice how I've pretty much left Black out of the discussion? Did you know that there is really no such color as “BLACK” in the natural world? What? Is this guy nuttier than a fruit cake? Red-Black, Green-Black, Blue-Black, I call them the R-G-B blacks. They account for a large % of the natural “black” we all know. Synthetic, man made blacks can be found all around us but are really not necessary, for the most part, for what we're doing. For the most part it is possible to create a mixed black that will be fine for the retouching we'll be doing.

To create some really interesting blacks try these mixes:
~Cadmium Red Light + Phthalo Blue (This combination is already listed above, look closely. you might see an excellent neutral black.
~Cadmium Red Light + Cerulean Blue (another one mentioned earlier, very nice red-black)
~Cadmium Red Light + Ultramarine Blue (again one mentioned earlier, very nice blue-black)
~Burnt Sienna + Phthalo Blue (excellent Blue-Black as well as dark browns and blues)
~Burnt Sienna + Ultramarine Blue (beautiful Green-Black as well as very dark browns and blues)

Of course, remember these are only basic combinations, there is nothing stopping your from trying additional 2 color combinations and if you really get into this stuff don't forget that you could actually mix 3 colors!!

3 color mixes can get really confusing and if anyone is interested, let me know, otherwise, I'm going to avoid them for now.

These should keep you busy for sometime to come.

This is the end of the text only posts, I'll start the next one with some pictures.

Swampfox

05-28-2010, 03:03 PM

At last, the reason we really came here for.

Tools of the trade include pretty much the same things you used for making the color charts, Clean water, a mixing palette, brushes ....

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/medium/DSC09204.JPG
These are finer tipped than the ones you probably used for making your charts.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/medium/DSC09205.JPG
2/0 is a double 0-0 and 3/0 is triple 0-0-0. You might find other similar sizes useful, but for a large part these will work.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/medium/DSC09106.JPGI have always used magnification for making sure that I'm getting the paint where I want it. This retouching is after all hopefully on small areas and not a whole wing section or other large part.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/medium/DSC09110.JPG
I also print out an extra page of the model we're going to be matching color to. In this case an FG L-4 Bird-dog, printed on the exact same paper that the model is built with. Make sure that you leave it in the paper, with plenty of white paper to use as a test palette.

Pick a page that is representative of most of the colors on the actual built model. If you have to print 2 or 3 different pages to do this, then print them all. I choose to retouch as I've built several pieces so you'll possibly have need for these extra pieces during you build anyway.

Swampfox

05-28-2010, 03:26 PM

Remember, your painting small objects with small areas that need retouching. I would like to suggest, that if you ever damage a larger area that needs retouching, say and area greater than 1/4 inch square (10mm square) just reprint and rebuild. It is very difficult to repair an area even that size. You can certainly try, it will be good practice, and if you do it, more power to you.

You'll want to keep your brush fairly dry, not dripping, and should be able to draw fine lines and dots like shown below.
http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/01make_little_strokes1.jpg
This is about 5x20mm, notice the dots on the left and lines on the right.
It would be wise to practice this stroke pattern on scraps of card stock before you try it on the real deal.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/03_lots_of_little_strokes1.jpg
You'll continue to build up your stroke density by passing over the area several times (top part of image) and eventually fill-in the area. This is to keep the paper from becoming too wet all at once.
The lines on the bottom part of the image are and continuous, you'll need this stroke method for covering seam lines.

What you want to avoid if you can is touching a really wet brush to any part of the models surface,
http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/03_try_to_avoid1.jpg
Never let the brush sit on the models surface like this.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/04_paint_puddling1.jpg
Puddles like this will just cause you to do more retouching. If you do this, take a Kleenex/soft tissue, wind up a corner into a point and lift as much off as you possibly can. Let it dry and check the damage......... Then decide if you want to start the build over or carry on.

Swampfox

05-28-2010, 03:34 PM

I've built the nose cowling of an old FG L-4 Grasshopper. It's a leftover part from a past build and it is a shade of Olive Green.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/view_1.jpg
Pretty ugly,

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/view_2.jpg
I've done an intentionally bad job of this build and have also take some sand paper to it. I normally don't even waste my time on trying to retouch a mess like this, but for this demo, I'm going to give it a shot. I honestly don't know how well this will retouch so we're all going to learn something on this part of the tutorial.

Swampfox

05-28-2010, 07:16 PM

You've spent all this time making these silly color mixing cards, you've spent time and $ building a paper model that need some retouching.

Take either a part, or the whole model to an area with good clean, bright lighting. Take out your completed color mix cards and start looking through them in hopes of finding a color sample that matches or comes pretty close to the model your building.
http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/013.jpg
This LOOKS close, is it close enough? We'll soon find out. Look at the info your wrote on your NOTES section of your color mix card and take those 2 tubes of paint, along with white out of your stash.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/024.jpg
Place small amounts of paint on your palette.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/033.jpg
Take roughly equal amounts of the 2 colors and mix them on a clean part of the palette and with your small 0-0 or 0-0-0 brush take a small amount and

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/03a.jpg
Put a small sample stroke on the card that has uncut pieces of your model. LOOK at it, does it look too dark, light, yellow, blue? Is it even close? This looks close but still too blue.

Rinse your brush really well and
http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/053.jpg
take a tiny sample of the orange-yellow color to try to get the "too blue" look out of the mixed sample.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/061.jpg
Give it a good mix......

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/071.jpg
and look at it..

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/081.jpg
Put a stroke of the new color next to the first and it still looks too dark.

http://www.papermodelers.com/forum/gallery/data/773/091.jpghttp://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/091.jpg
Take a small sample and stroke it right up next to the color your trying to match. To me this looks like the right family but it's too dark and still too blue.

Try adding a little
http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/103.jpg
white?

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/124.jpg
mmmmmm?

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/133.jpg
next to the printed model it looks a little too light now, and still too blue.

http://www.papermodelers.com/forum/gallery/data/773/053.jpg
A little more orange-yellow mixed in again, add another color stroke and I could see it still needed more orange-yellow. Finally it looked close so I added a
http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/163.jpg
a 5th swash. That last one looks pretty close (NOTICE that I did not put a 1st or 4th swash next to the model part, because I had judged them to not quite be what I wanted.

Lets look at what I've written above and below the strokes in the image above:

~=,approximately equal amounts of blue and yellow
+B, add a little blue
+w, add a little white
+Y, add a little Yellow and
since the last stroke is more yellow (although I didn't note it), it should be obvious that I added another little bit of yellow.

I try a small stroke of the 5th color
http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/143.jpg
(next to the NAV light) and it's very close.

This looks close enough that I place a small stroke of color directly on an example of the color I'm trying to match,
http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/152.jpg
Let it dry and

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/172.jpg
comparing the dried stroke to the rest of the printed piece. It looks pretty darn close.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/183.jpg
The part placed next to the mixed color waiting to be applied to the model.

Next comes actually painting the model.

cgutzmer

05-28-2010, 07:20 PM

sweet! thanks :) this is great stuff!

bagpiper

05-28-2010, 08:00 PM

Getting better each time I check in. One of these days I will read this from the beginning again as I know I have missed a lot of detail.

Now we're getting into the hands on painting. Sweet.

Cheers
Jim

cgutzmer

05-28-2010, 08:12 PM

I have read the whole thing about four times now and see something I missed each time - of course having the kids constantly interrupt doesnt help ;)
Chris

pahorace

05-28-2010, 11:15 PM

ghshinn

05-29-2010, 09:06 AM

This color information alone is worth joining the site. Great job!

Garland

Swampfox

05-29-2010, 09:20 AM

Hello SFX
This is an excellent thread. Your method is very simple, accurate and infallible say.
I would say, too, which is imperative for papermodel.
I appreciate your work, terrible, very detailed with many pictures and this is a considerable effort for you.
But it's worth, believe me. I bought a book years ago to study the subject.
This thread was absolutely necessary. Thanks for your effort.

Orazio

I appreciate your comments, however I want to remind everyone using this material that all I'm doing is repeating this information as I learned it many years ago. I am not the creator of this method, I am only conveying it to the members of this group.

Please read post #7 of this thread to gain an understanding of where it comes from.

I'm not trying to be humble here, I just don't want to take credit where it's not due. I'll take credit for posting the existing method to this forum, but Michael Wilcox is the one that really spent years working on this system.

This color information alone is worth joining the site. Great job! Garland

That's quite a compliment, I'm not sure I represent that remark!

Thanks,
SFX

Swampfox

05-29-2010, 07:44 PM

This post will show you the way I paint edges. For this particular technique you do need to load your brush with a fair amount of paint. NOT dripping, but also not too dry. The picts will help.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/medium/DSC09131.JPG
Hold the piece to be worked on in such a way that you can easily see the edge you want to paint and keep it in a reasonable horizontal position. You can see that the brush is well loaded with paint, but not dripping.

Using the EDGE of the bristles, not the tip, place the loaded brush on the edge surface and move it along at a rate that will deposit paint from the brush onto the edge. This takes some practice but is really not all that hard.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/medium/DSC09133.JPG
You can hold the brush steady and in a fairly fixed location, and rotate the piece under the bristles or you can move the brush along the edge of the piece holding the piece steady. OR, if you get the hang of this technique you can move both at the same time. I've done this once in a while and I end up slipping the brush off the edge and end up having more retouching to do. Don't get too cocky with the wrist action.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/medium/DSC09134.JPG
Keep going until your finished with a section, make sure it dries before moving onto the next section, usually just a moment or so. Look over the area you've just done and do a 2nd coat if it looks like the paint is being absorbed to the point of leaving a faint white line where you've retouched.

Questions?

Swampfox

05-29-2010, 08:09 PM

After looking at these images I realize that they don't show what I wanted to show very well. Unfortunately I can't go back and retake them because I've moved beyond this step in the process, so I'll retake some images of a new build and try again.

However, you'll still see some of my approach with these 3 images. There is a small discoloration cause by a drop of water on the corner of this piece.
http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/medium/DSC091351.JPG
It's to the right of the red flag just as you start looking at the inside of the cowl.

http://www.papermodelers.com/forum/../gallery/data/773/medium/DSC091361.JPG
I take my brush and just barely dip it into the color. Just a touch of paint and carefully touch it to the affected area, using only the tip. Don't let the brush sit on the surface!! Swipe it slowly but steadily across the surface.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/medium/DSC091371.JPG
It doesn't take much at all. Let it dry before adding more paint as paint will often dry a slightly different color than when its wet. Once it dries decide if it needs another light coat. This shows application of a 2nd lighter coat.

I'm sure there will be a question or two on this one as I said the images are not all that good....sorry about that, I'm starting to get tired and I think I'll stop for the night.

Swampfox

05-30-2010, 03:39 PM

I've been trying to figure out how to present this next part. It would be better as a video, but I'm not equipped to do that so I'm hoping this poor mans version of a video will work.

This shows how to retouch seam lines that are not too wide. Also as a reminder, I built this piece rather shoddy for demo purposes, just to show you how much you can or can't cover with retouch. If it was just me, I would have reprinted and rebuilt this piece but I really did want to see how far I could push the medium and the technique.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/medium/Line_sequence_1.jpg
This shows a 0-0 detail brush being used to cover the white seams left during construction of some models. I just a moderately loaded brush and lightly but steadily draw it along the line as you move from left to right you should be able to see the paint being applied to the line.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/medium/Line_sequence_2a.jpg
I'm now moving up the seam that has the assembly tabs, from bottom along the seam towards the top, recharging the brush with paint if necessary and then back down again.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/medium/Line_sequence_2b.jpg
After letting the paint dry for a moment, I do the same motion again, if it appears that the line didn't cover well the first time. The right most image shows the seam's covered and most of the white edge lines gone.

Next I'll cover scuffs and scratches.

Swampfox

05-30-2010, 03:50 PM

Scuffs and scratches are often not worth fooling with if you can reprint the piece, but in cases where that's not possible it is always best to start with a brush that is too dry and add paint if the damage is not too bad.

The biggest problem with scuff damage is that it breaks the paper surface and if anything remotely wet touches it, it will absorb it like a sponge, making the retouch look even worse than the damage.

Below is an attempt to repair this kind of damage.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/medium/Scuffs_1.jpg
You can see the scuffs as small areas of white, where the ink has been removed, usually by careless handling. Learn to be gentle with your work. With an almost dry brush, test the surface by dragging the brush over the scuff to see if any paint will be absorbed. If not, add a little more to the brush tip until you see a little color change. LET IT DRY, before you even think of adding more paint.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/medium/Scuffs_2.jpg
Another view of the same area, different scuff. Don't over wet the paper as this will usually make things worse. Just a little paint at a time is usually the best approach.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/Before_After_1.jpg
This is a comparison of the before and after of this piece.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/Before_After_2.jpg
Another view. Notice that even though the color retouch matches, the texture of the damaged paper is just too much to make magic happen. I wouldn't consider using this retouched piece in a build. It is here as an example of what you can and can't expect by retouching.

This takes practice, so please have some experience under your belt before you try this the first time on your masterpiece, ready for the big show, model.

Any observations, questions?

Swampfox

05-30-2010, 04:51 PM

Because the cowling in the last posting was so damaged to start with, it's difficult to get an idea what a good retouch job looks like. Below is an image of another cowl, again from an L-4(different model) just for a change of pace.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/pre_retouch_of_sample.jpg
You can see a couple of areas that will need retouching. During construction I got a little moisture on the piece and got some water damage. Also the seam left over from construction is clearly visible, and when I printed it, I used a low quality, fast setting and it left a violet seam along the surface. Again, normally, I'd just reprint it, remake it and hope that the only thing I'd have to cover would be the construction seam. However, in the name of education, I'll use this piece.

I had to mix a new OD color from a different family of yellows and blues and after about an hour of fiddling I ended up with

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/cowl_bottom_retouched.jpg
this retouched cowl. As you can see the seam and water damage retouched nicely. However, the violet line just didn't work out. Often times, the retouch of a line that extends any distance on the surface is difficult to correct, because of the way light strikes and reflects off the surface. Is it worth fixing? You have to decide that, I think not. REPRINT and rebuild.

The next image shows the area of the cowl where the engine housing sticks out of.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/cowl_w_text.jpg
If you look carefully, you can see a thin black cut line along the cowl edge (right side of image) where I didn't retouch. On the left side of the image you can see the black cut line is fairly well covered up (at least I think so). At the top of the image you can see my failed attempt at getting rid of the violet line. Below that is a scribed panel line.

This last image is
http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/773/medium/side_bt_side_cowl_bottom.jpg
a before and after of the cowl. Some times retouching works and sometimes it's easier and faster to reprint and rebuild.

Questions?

Swampfox

05-31-2010, 09:06 AM

Well, I looked over the entire thread with a fresh eye and I think I've said what I wanted to say and cover what needed covering. The last post completes the tutorial. This is not an easy project to tackle so I don't expect too many of you will actually take it on.

But if you decide to, and have any questions just post it here or PM me and I'll try to answer any questions.

If anyone makes any color charts, post them here, I'd like to see them.

Hasta la Vista,
SFX

ghshinn

05-31-2010, 09:44 AM

I'm not trying to be humble here, I just don't want to take credit where it's not due. I'll take credit for posting the existing method to this forum, but Michael Wilcox is the one that really spent years working on this system.

That's quite a compliment, I'm not sure I represent that remark!

Thanks,
SFX

I've been a teacher for over forty years, and I can tell you that I've never had an original thought in my life. It's we teacher's lot in life to pass on information that others have developed. For that, as one teacher to another, you deserve the credit for having learned the information in the first place, as well as being willing to sacrifice your time and effort to pass it along. Free of charge, I might add. That you're not seeking credit for someone's work that's not your own speaks well of your character.:)

Speaking from a "color novice" perspective, the information is extremely valuable. I for one have learned, and continue to learn, from your posts.

Garland

Art Deco

05-31-2010, 08:58 PM

Very informative thread! Thank you Swampfox, for taking so much time and effort to share your knowledge with the community! :)

bagpiper

06-01-2010, 05:11 AM

Just looked over it again mate. Your last pictures are exactly what I needed. Really shows what you can expect and as you say, you need a good base model and it will not create miracles but I was very impressed. I still have my first and second Geebee partial builds which need painting so I think I will do some practice on them. That was one reason I kept them.

I am sure I, like everyone else, can't thank you enough for taking the time to do this. I think Chris is the leader of your fan club mate.:D

Thanks again and I need to read this another few dozen times for it to all sink in.

Take care SFX and catch you in the forums.

Jim

Lex

06-01-2010, 07:25 AM

Retouching makes a great difference, and now we hopefully have an idea of how to do it... :D Thanks for the informative thread

cgutzmer

06-01-2010, 12:14 PM

GREAT! one more read, then off to make some color charts over the next couple days - need to work on cockpit colors :)

cgutzmer

06-04-2010, 03:44 PM

I have just one thing to say *sigh* :(

I spent two hours today trying to make color sheets. I got a whole lot of nothing. I am going to keep working at it but I wont hold my build up for it anymore. Honestly I cant even figure out how to work the paint worth a darn. I have ZERO experience with painting (well I painted in the navy but that was different) I use one softish brush and I cant mix the paint without totally loading the brush and wasting a lot of paint. I use a stiffer white looking brush like what swampfox used and it worked better but I must have gotten a cheap one (wal mart is the best I could do here in sun prairie) cause bristles kept breaking off and I had a #$%^&*() of a time rinsing the paint out of it.

I tried using the same amount of paint that you used to make my cards but I run out of paint after filling in the just the first few boxes. I just cant figure out how to keep my brush from loading so much paint that I waste a ton when I have to rinse the brush.

Sorry for the inept use of your tutorial :(
Chris

Swampfox

06-04-2010, 04:43 PM

I have just one thing to say *sigh* :(

I spent two hours today trying to make color sheets. I got a whole lot of nothing. I am going to keep working at it .................................................c ause bristles kept breaking off and I had a #$%^&*() of a time rinsing the paint out of it.

I tried using the same amount of paint that you used to make my cards but I run out of paint after filling in the just the first few boxes. I just cant figure out how to keep my brush from loading so much paint that I waste a ton when I have to rinse the brush.

Sorry for the inept use of your tutorial :(
Chris

No need to apologize for not having experience at doing something, your trying and actually learning whether you realize it or not.

I think you've mentioned several things that are important for others to read and hear.

1. You do need good quality tools, the breaking off of the bristles is an indicator of a medium to low quality brush with poor natural animal hair or low quality synthetic hair. At least one good quality brush is a must for this work.

2. You might try to playing with the paint on a scrap piece of card stock. Try painting lines, small surface areas similar to the size of the areas you'll paint on the cards. Add less water, add more water. lightly wipe the loaded brush on the edge of the palette on a damp cloth. Experimentation is very important. EXPECT some failures..... Be patient with your paint and yourself.

3. To quote, "I have ZERO experience with painting........". As with any other skill, it takes time to learn well. Give yourself the time and don't expect miracles. You now have "some" experience with painting, you know some things that don't work.

4. You mentioned using a soft brush and then a stiffer one and realized that the stiffer one worked better. I know they can be expensive, but try an even stiffer one if you can.

5. Use more paint than what I showed in the demos..... Take a tube of one of the colors your not planning on using, Black for example and empty the whole thing onto your palette........try that.

6. Take a break and try again later and let me know how it went.

cgutzmer

06-04-2010, 06:54 PM

I wont be giving up - I just wont utilize it for this build :) the first one is really my trial for the metallic build but I WILL keep at it!
Thanks
Chris

Swampfox

06-04-2010, 07:57 PM

I wont be giving up - I just wont utilize it for this build :) the first one is really my trial for the metallic build but I WILL keep at it!
Thanks
Chris

Glad to hear it, don't quit. But maybe quit for this build. I was somewhat concerned that you'd planned on using this technique on an important build such as this. I think it's a wise decision...... There are many more models to try this on.

Use scrap pieces that don't go together quite right for you experiments.

Keep it up, and don't stop trying.

SFX

Jim Nunn

06-04-2010, 08:51 PM

Swampfox

06-05-2010, 11:34 AM

Swampfox,

Thank you for taking the effort to share your knowledge with us.
I have for years used water colors on my paper models and inevitably I will mix up the main colors used in the model and then run out of some of the colors. Now thanks to you I will be able to set up a library of colors and be able to easily mix up a needed color. I started my color library last night when I ran out of a color I needed.

Jim Nunn

Your welcome, I'm glad you think that it is a useful color matching system, although it does take some time to compile.

If you have any problems or questions just ask and I'll do what I can.

Best of luck and I'd like to see a card or two as you come along,

SFX

cgutzmer

06-07-2010, 05:05 AM

I am considering thinning the paints down just a bit (also getting some better brushes) just to experiment a bit.
Thanks!
Chris

Bomarc

06-07-2010, 06:40 AM

Well, this has been a really informative and well presented tutorial, thank you SFX. I have a question if I may. In the first part of this thread of creating a color card, you used various amounts of white to make the transition from the two colors of choice. Would the same thing be done using black to create a card for darker colors?

Years ago, I had a watercolor teacher who absolutely abhorred the use of black in water color painting and forbade us students from ever buying a tube of black. I seem to remember her point was that darks in a painting could be better achieved with the proper intensity/mixing of primary colors. Good advice that I (mostly) tried to follow in my watercolor work. But in the application of paper model parts matching, would black have a use for darker colors?

Thanks again for your efforts.

Mike

Swampfox

06-07-2010, 09:21 AM

Would the same thing be done using black to create a card for darker colors?

Years ago, I had a watercolor teacher who absolutely abhorred the use of black in water color painting and forbade us students from ever buying a tube of black. I seem to remember her point was that darks in a painting could be better achieved with the proper intensity/mixing of primary colors. Good advice that I (mostly) tried to follow in my watercolor work. But in the application of paper model parts matching, would black have a use for darker colors?

Thanks again for your efforts.

Mike

Mike, Thanks for the comments and your welcome I hope you actually make a set of cards to use.

I honestly don't know about using black for making shades as I think your watercolor teacher and I think the same with regard to using black. I don't own a tube of any kind of black. I mix my blacks from complimentary colors and have never tried it with my color mix cards.

Keep in mind that ALL tube blacks still have a base primary or secondary color that they are based on. So you might actually have a Blue-black, Red-black, Green-black etc. And each one would have a specific affect on the color you mixing it with to get your shade. I can only guess that it would become very confusing.

I agree that for the purpose of card model retouch that black might have a place. I'm just so use to making black from my mixing charts that I just never thought about it seriously.

I made some comments about mixing black late in the tutorial:

"Finally, anyone notice how I've pretty much left Black out of the discussion? Did you know that there is really no such color as “BLACK” in the natural world? What? Is this guy nuttier than a fruit cake? Red-Black, Green-Black, Blue-Black, I call them the R-G-B blacks. They account for a large % of the natural “black” we all know. Synthetic, man made blacks can be found all around us but are really not necessary, for the most part, for what we're doing. For the most part it is possible to create a mixed black that will be fine for the retouching we'll be doing.

To create some really interesting blacks try these mixes:
~Cadmium Red Light + Phthalo Blue (This combination is already listed above, look closely. you might see an excellent neutral black.
~Cadmium Red Light + Cerulean Blue (another one mentioned earlier, very nice red-black)
~Cadmium Red Light + Ultramarine Blue (again one mentioned earlier, very nice blue-black)
~Burnt Sienna + Phthalo Blue (excellent Blue-Black as well as dark browns and blues)
~ Burnt Sienna + Ultramarine Blue (beautiful Green-Black as well as very dark browns and blues)"

You might try these to see if you like the mixed blacks as opposed to the premixed versions.
I'd be interested i knowinng what you come up with.

SFX

bigbenn

08-11-2010, 06:08 PM

Hi,
I tried mixing colours but I never got exactly the right colour, like it was in the kit I was using as a reference, since I build all of my models in 3D and from Black & White photocopy enlargements.
The easiest way to get the colours right first time, is to take your kit or reference colours down to the local paint supply shop and get them to mix up a sample pot (for around $10) in waterbased paint, using their computer matching service - all big paint suppliers have one.
BigBenn

adyokehpunya

11-25-2010, 04:25 AM

I've been having fun with this lately.Online Color Mixing Palette for Painters (http://painting.about.com/library/blpaint/blcolormixingpalette1.htm)

wow, thanks for the link, it's very useful while we build uncolored model. so we could make some experiment.

Swampfox

02-09-2011, 06:56 PM

I tried mixing colours but I never got exactly the right colour, like it was in the kit I was using as a reference, since I build all of my models in 3D and from Black & White photocopy enlargements.
The easiest way to get the colours right first time, is to take your kit or reference colours down to the local paint supply shop and get them to mix up a sample pot (for around $10) in waterbased paint, using their computer matching service - all big paint suppliers have one.
BigBenn
I've read this comment many times since I wrote this tutorial and I've never responded, but I'm in the mood to finally say something.

It's obvious you didn't get it.......

I tried mixing colours but I never got exactly the right colour. Why do you think I wrote this tutorial in the first place? I never said it was going to be an easy, simple solution. This is a complicated method, no doubt, but it's also a learning experience. Try learning something for a change instead of take your kit or reference colours down to the local paint supply shop and get them to mix up a sample pot (for around $10) in waterbased paint, using their computer matching service.And what do you do with the other 98% of the paint that you had them mix for $10? I can mix exactly the color I need in the exact amount I need and not spent .05 cents doing it.

I realize I'm the only one that cares about this comment, but I got said what I wanted to say.

Thank You for your time, I feel better now............
SFX

danielmcmillen

06-19-2011, 01:05 PM

I hope I not to late here. I have a Q about the transparency of the medium you used for this tut. You mentioned gouache is an opaque color, but in the list some are transparent and others as semi-trans. Are the transparent water colors or is this the characteristics of some gouache?

I have enjoyed reading This tut and will get to work on my set of cards as I have lost of water colors .

Thank you
MAC

whulsey

06-19-2011, 02:15 PM

MAC,

You sure you're not mixing up regular watercolors and gouache. All gouache (or Designer's Colours as Windsor Newton calls them) that I've used are totally opaque.

Swampfox

06-19-2011, 02:49 PM

I'm glad to see that these tutorials are still being used. It's been a while since I wrote this one so I went back to read what I'd said.....

The use of the words semi-transparent, transparent etc are used relative to each other within the class of gouache. Generally when comparing one color of gouache with another of the same brand........sometimes, one color can be described as being more opaque or more transparent than the other.....but nothing approaching the transparency of true watercolors.

As Whulsey just mentioned, gouache is pretty darn opaque and is used just for that reason... You could add enough water to make it 'transparent' but that defeats the purpose. Gouache should generally be used as a semi-dry medium, kind of like 'dry-brushing'.

I wouldn't suggest mixing gouache and watercolors together for this use, but if you do let us know how it worked for you.

Hope this answers your question,
Swampfox

danielmcmillen

06-19-2011, 11:52 PM

I have water colors that, is what I had on hand all should be transparent.

I am asking about the list of colors in post #29

Cadmium Red Light----Orange-Red, Opaque
Quinacridone Violet----Violet-Red, Transparent
Cadmium Yellow Light----Orange-Yellow, Opaque
Hansa Yellow Light----Green-Yellow, Semi-Transparent
Cerulean Blue----Green-Blue, Opaque
Ultramarine Blue----Violet-Blue, Transparent
Phthalocyanine Blue----Green-Blue, Transparent
Phthalocyanine Green----Mid-Green, Transparent
Burnt Sienna----Neutralized Orange, Transparent
Yellow Ochre----Neutralized Orange-Yellow, Semi-Opaque
Raw Sienna----Neutralized Orange-Yellow, Semi-Transparent
Titanium White----White, Opaque

There is only 4 opaque colors in the list, others are transparent, semi-trans and semi-opaque. Are these all Gouache or a mix of water colors and Gouache. I know it is a piddly question, but I just want to know what he is using.

MAC

danielmcmillen

06-20-2011, 12:03 AM

Yes it does! sorry about the last post I didn't see it until after I pasted it.

I have a lot of water colors so I will test them and see however I am also get Gouache as listed. I can see ( because of your explanation ) how it would be better. I have also Ordered the book " Blue and yellow don't make green "
you have defiantly peeked my interest!

MAC

danielmcmillen

06-20-2011, 08:22 PM

It seems I am the only goofy enough to post a mix card.
I really learned a lot doing this, how much paint, the affects of more or less mixing, loading the brush. I wanted to figure out the pic thing so as bad as it I will post it

MAChttp://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/500/thumbs/DSC02454.JPG

Swampfox

06-20-2011, 08:34 PM

MAC,

It looks like your learning a lot right now, including how to post images;-)

It will take you a while to get even color mixing on your cards, so don't give up. I've sometimes mixed the same two colors 5-6 times before I got the feel for the way they mix.......That too is something that takes some practice.

I think that if you get a nice basic set of gouache you'll get better results. Try to get all the same brand and buy the best quality you can afford. I know how difficult that can be in this day and age but just do the best you can.

And make sure you post to this thread so that others can see what your experiences and problems were in doing this tutorial.

I check back regularly to see if anyone is having problems, so if you have any more questions, just ask and either myself or someone will try to help.

Keep up the good work,

Swampfox

Wad Cutter

07-25-2012, 01:23 PM

I'm a bit late to find this class Fox but I will go back to the front of it and go through it page by page and try to catch up with where your at. This is a great idea. Extremely interesting. wc

bigbenn

07-26-2012, 12:01 AM

Hi,
I use water based paints to paint my card models.
I take the colours cheme of the card kit to the nearest large paint distributor and I use their computer based colour matching service to mix and supply sample pots of the paint colour I want for my model.
Each pot costs around $5 and would last over many models, if I so desired.
BigBenn

Swampfox

07-26-2012, 07:23 AM

I'm a bit late to find this class Fox but I will go back to the front of it and go through it page by page and try to catch up with where your at. This is a great idea. Extremely interesting. wc

I posted a reply yesterday but it never showed up!!

Oh well, no big deal.

I never held any kind of live workshop for this technique, it's pretty much up to you to created your own mixing book.. The mixing cards are available for no charge over at ecardmodels.com Look for them under Dave Winfield (Air Dave) who created the chart for free download..They work great for this system.

Feel free to ask questions, please just continue the mixing color tread so that all this discussion stays in one place....

Best of luck getting your color mixing charts done. It's a very slow process taking a fair amount of time to complete, so don't give up.

Post pict of your charts as you complete them and enjoy learning,

SFX