Corsair Racer Design & Alpha Build

[member_3]

This is really Will's thread since he's designing the model but I was foolish enough to rise to the bait of his alpha build challenge so while he posts design progress I'll attempt to show how that translates to paper. I decided to do a parallel build of his F2G racer #57 in its 1949 configuration so there will be photos of it and the new craft shown here, especially when there are comparisons to be made or differences to point out. I hope am up to the task. And Will, I'll settle for your military F2G as a reward when you finish it :)

[member_3]

Parts for assembly A - the cockpit area and central wing framing. The parts shown are from the #57 and, with the exception of A1, A5 and A6, they are identical to the parts for the new design.

http://www.oldtroll.com/images/Corsair-1.jpg

[member_3]

Assembly A complete - this is the new design. The only parts that differed from #57 were A1, A5 and A6 and I have highlighted the changes in green. Note that the alpha build parts are not labeled or colored so I have been scribbling on them to keep things sorted out. They'll be much prettier when Will is done with them. Parts A2 (forward bulkhead) and A5 (cockpit rear bulkhead) both require scoring and bending as shown. The area at the bottom front of A1 requires careful cutting and handling as it is quite delicate until the wing stub spars are installed.

http://www.oldtroll.com/images/Corsair-2.jpg

Will says the cockpit parts for #57 will fit in the new one so I'll print an extra sheet and work on that next - I may decline to fully detail the cockpit on the new design since this is not a full-fledged "proofing" build.

[member_3]

By the way, just so I don't lead you all astray, parts A4, A7, A8 and A9 should NOT be glued in place at this stage. The cockpit interior should be built around A4 and then the whole assembly glued in place. The wing stub spars should be left off until skinning the cockpit area. They are just too vulnerable up to that point.

[Lex]

Wow, I can see this is going to be hell of a complicated and detailed kit Will's designing... Looks great so far, thanks for sharing this pre-beta build and please post more pics as the build progress ^^

[GreMir]

Great start Ron.
It will be interesting seeing both planes being built next to each other.

[Willja67]

Wow, I can see this is going to be hell of a complicated and detailed kit Will's designing...


This racer model is going to be kind of bare bones actually. No moving control surfaces, no engine, the canopy won't open and it'll only have landing gear because I don't have to do any design work on it.

Ron this is my revenge for your contest and yes if you are the first done you'll get the new version when i get it done (may be a year or more). Also all participants will get the final version of the racer when it's completed.

[Lex]

This racer model is going to be kind of bare bones actually. No moving control surfaces, no engine, the canopy won't open and it'll only have landing gear because I don't have to do any design work on it.
Oh sorry for the confusion... I thought this was the detailed one......... :D

[member_3]

Lex - this build(s) of mine will actually be the alpha of the new (simplified) racer and my personal build of the #57 designed by Will and available from Gremir Models (http://www.gremirmodels.com/). I thought it would be interesting to see the differences between the two designs.

[member_3]

These photos are of the cockpit for #57 but would apparently be the same (or less detailed) on the new racer. This is the point at which you go build the cockpit around piece A4. Note that I remembered not to add the wing stub spars yet. One modification I made was to add a "ledge" of scrap laminated material to piece A5 in order to give support to the rear edge of the cockpit floor.

http://www.oldtroll.com/images/Corsair-3.jpg

Here is the cockpit nearing completion being test fitted to the 'A' assembly. The port side has not been glued to bulkhead A4 to provide adequate access for the remaining details. One shortcut I took was to laminate parts B12, B13 and B14 (seat bottom, back and headrest) to the appropriate thickness, cut them out and colored the edges. These parts, as designed, are cardstock with a folded edge that needs curling at the corners. Using a laminated piece with no folding seem easier to (lazy) me.

http://www.oldtroll.com/images/Corsair-4.jpg

Gratuitous shot of the detail Will has incorporated. I will be finishing up the rudder pedals and seat belts and gluing the cockpit in place. At that point both builds will be back in sync and ready to begin skinning. If the designer and/or admin feel this should be in the Build Thread: Aviation Section rather than here in Design, I have no objection to it being moved...

http://www.oldtroll.com/images/Corsair-5.jpg

[Willja67]

Looks good Ron! Boy I'm getting a two for one deal here:D

[member_3]

Piece "D4" has some extraneous bits at the forward upper corner that are not needed on the new design - see before and after photos below.

http://www.oldtroll.com/images/Corsair-6.jpg http://www.oldtroll.com/images/Corsair-7.jpg

I started skinning with piece D2 (not the recommended sequence) and had no problems (I thought). Next was D4 and the effect of an earlier assembly error came to light. Piece B16 (forward cockpit liner) provides a joiner strip and inner cockpit sides between A3 (forward cockpit bulkhead) and A4 (instrument panel). Part of the build thread done by Will on the old forum indicated that the upper ends of B16 should be placed UNDER the tabs of B2 (main cockpit liner). If you glue B16 over the tabs (as I did) this has the effect of slightly increasing the width of the fuselage at the instrument panel. On another model this might not be noticeable but Will's design is so accurate that it becomes significant when joining the next skin (D4) which has to go from cockpit ledge, under the fuselage to opposite cockpit ledge AND match panel lines on D2.

http://www.oldtroll.com/images/Corsair-8.jpg

The increased girth caused by my mistake with B16 meant that D4 seemed undersized. MY crude "solution" was to split it at the bottom centerline and put a filler strip to cover the gap. THIS PART DOES NOT NEED REDESIGN - THIS WAS A BUILDER ERROR!

http://www.oldtroll.com/images/Corsair-9.jpg

Part D5 does require some changes, though. The top rear corners no longer meet at the centerline because of the new cockpit and turtledeck fairing. My solution was to trim areas indicated in green. Will, this equates to a line from the forward upper corner of D5 to the topmost panel line on D6. I will have an assembled shot of this later today.

http://www.oldtroll.com/images/Corsair-10.jpg

I made a joiner strip for the rear of D5 and another for the rear of D6. I am not a fan of the joiner strip on #57 thet is at the forward edge of D6. I think next time I'll make a strip for the rear edge of D5 instead so that the joining of the two segments is less stressful.

[Don Boose]

This is a VERY interesting and informative build thread. You sure are getting a lot of high-quality modeling done lately, Ron -- in between peddling models and patent medicines off the back of a wagon and the occasional patch of creative writing.

Don

[member_3]

OK - it's later today and here is the overall view of things I have been rambling about. In the photo below (sorry about the pink stripe - I was bored...) I have annotated the fuselage skin segments with the equivalent part number from #57. D2 and D3 are OK as is. D4 and D5 need modification as indicated in green. A new joiner strip was added at the rear edge of D5 and another new one at the rear edge and centerline joint of D6.

http://www.oldtroll.com/images/Corsair-11.jpg

Back at #57, things are gloomy. I started skinning with D4 (recommended) then assembled D5 + D6 (Will, you might consider putting the join strip at the rear of D5 rather than the front of D6) with a little stress and bungled seams (see arrows). I then added the D5/D6 skin to the fuselage assembly. Bulkhead A6 kept snagging on the D5/D6 join strip inside and that had me sweating a bit. I finally got things in place (more or less) and then it dawned on me that I had made the same error with B16 on this one - D4 was stretched a little which made it impossible to match the white stripe. I glued D5/D6 in as they were and then test fitted D2 - of course it could not fit properly because of B16 so my "solution" here was to cut though the B2/B16 overlap just ahead of A4 (instrument panel) and then shave off the excess thickness on the edge of A4. It looks like D2 will now settle in almost perfectly and fortunately the hack job is not visible through the cockpit opening. Will, I think the B16 thing is important enough to be made a note on the cockpit diagram on Page 3 or as a warning in the assembly instructions. I am afraid very few builders will see your build thread at Zealot (and the photos are all missing anyway.)

http://www.oldtroll.com/images/Corsair-12.jpg

The tale of the "wounded" Corsair racers will continue...

[member_3]

OOPS - all references to D2 should have been D1. D2 (R&L) are pieces that join D1 and D3 and provide glue tabs for the wing root. Chalk it up to staying up late...or being an old fart...or not paying attention...or booze.

[Willja67]

I'm impressed by your speed Ron! I'm sorry about the inadequate instructions. Documentation and paper work has always been a weak spot of mine. I'll see what I can do to help others avoid the mistake, thanks for being kind enough to mark the pitfall.

[member_3]

OK - first let me get this out of the way...

"My what a big cowl you have!", said Little Red Riding Hood. "The better to hide my 'motives'.", the Big Bad Wolf replied. Bah-dum-bum.

After the last set of photos I had decided that this would be designated build Alpha-One. There were enough building errors that I was unhappy with the result and did not think it reflected well on the (so far) pretty much flawless design. Having made that decision I charged ahead and did a quick and sloppy on the new nose. No design problems were detected and I will pick up the build thread at the start of the nose construction once build Alpha-Two has reached that stage - hopefully within the week. At any rate here is the new schnozzola and again, all gaps, bumps, wrinkles and dings are the fault of the builder and not the designer. Hopefully they will all be gone on build Alpha-Two.

http://www.oldtroll.com/images/Corsair-13.jpg

http://www.oldtroll.com/images/Corsair-14.jpg

http://www.oldtroll.com/images/Corsair-15.jpg

http://www.oldtroll.com/images/Corsair-16.jpg

[Willja67]

Ron I really appreciate this! I just realized I don't like the carb intake. I was looking at a Seafury racer with a R-4360 and the intake is a whole lot narrower so I'm going to redesign it and have it taper from back to front. So you other 2 if you haven't got this far yet don't build the front of the cowl new pieces will be on their way shortly.

[member_3]

Just when you thought it was safe to visit this thread again...ba-dummm, ba-dummm, blood in the water! We're gonna need a bigger hangar!

Look, Ma - the lines match up on BOTH sides and there's no ugly patch on the bottom!

This is the Alpha-two build and it has gone more smoothly than my last botched attempt. One thing different - I used thinner stock for lamination (more like the 1/32" the designer recommends) and that improved fore-and-aft fit. I also was particularly careful about cutting to remove the line on all exterior cuts and all joining slots. That seems to have solved the circumferential fit issues. Since Will is redoing the long snout I did not redo that and instead went ahead and put on the canopy and turtledeck. The fit on it is perfect with only my glue-laden digits mucking things up. Y'all enjoy the photos!

Will, I assume the tail end has no changes from the #57/#74 - if not, I am not going to mess with it. I'll put this build on hold until you have redone the front end and pass on the new parts.

http://www.oldtroll.com/images/Corsair-17.jpg

http://www.oldtroll.com/images/Corsair-18.jpg

http://www.oldtroll.com/images/Corsair-19.jpg

http://www.oldtroll.com/images/Corsair-20.jpg

[Willja67]

The tail cone is exactly the same as are the horizontal stabs. The vertical stab is the same except for a fairing on the leading edge. I almost have the rest of the parts ready the wing root intakes are giving me a little grief but will be done tonight or tommorrow and you can have at the rest of it. good job btw

Just one minor comment, I designed the aft and of the canopy (colored blue) to go under the forward portion of the turtle deck. I have one question in my mind, I can't remember if I shaved enough off the former to account for that. Also now that I look at the pics a little more carefully it looks like you have the canopy about 1/8" too far forward if the tab on the canopy was tucked under the turtle deck it would be just right.

[member_3]

Ah - OK. I assumed a butt joint at the rear of the canopy so it is probably located too far forward as you say. If there is an Alpha-three build I'll fix that or we can just let one of the other guys do it correctly. I can't bear to cut this one up at this point.

[member_3]

Alright, alright! Build Alpha Three is underway using the new COLORED fuselage skins Will sent to us. I will have photos soon but I can tell you this - it's a fantastic color scheme!

[member_3]

Build Alpha Three - incorporates new color sheets provided by Will and some parts revisions based on earlier comments. Since the Super Corsair has been previously publicly built (Zealot - rlwhitt) and there are no changes to the undercarriage, I am doing this in its simplest form - in flight, wheels up, no seperate control surfaces or flaps.

Will - two comments: 1) I could not get the upper thin white stripe to match up and "flow" from the E6 segment to the E7 segment. The stripe forms a slight "V" at the join. Since the fit is essentially spot on I think there might be a minor layout problem - probably on E7? 2) I started fooling around with the #57 vertical stab/rudder while waiting for new colored parts. Is this aircraft going to have the same asymmetrical vertical fin as the #57? If so, the coloring may have to be adjusted on the E7 segment in that area (it is currently symmetrical). This is going to be a really beautiful color scheme once I get the long, black nose on.

http://www.oldtroll.com/images/Corsair-21.jpg

http://www.oldtroll.com/images/Corsair-22.jpg

http://www.oldtroll.com/images/Corsair-23.jpg

[Willja67]

Man I think you must be able to build as fast as this is supposed to be able to fly! Holy cow! Doesn't surprise me too much that there are some alignment problems I've been a little distracted see below:

[member_3]

Distraction fully understandable and forgiven! Is she a member yet? Where is her first build thread?

[Willja67]

No not a member yet and perhaps never but her first build will take place in a couple of weeks and will be the birdmobile gray wagtail (the best kit I have that can probably be built in one evening and it's an animal so she will probably like it).

I will probably post a thread about the date/build so it should be interesting.

I just sent you the colored tail surfaces if I'm not mistaken all beta builders should have all the color parts, if not shoot me a pm or email and I'll send them asap.

[Don Boose]

So there are several things of great beauty appearing in this build!

[Willja67]

I told you she was beautiful.

[member_3]

Well, it's 0130 and I've been playing with paper for too many hours yesterday/today so I'll just a pop in a couple more pics and think about a few hours sleep. Will, the fit on everything I added today has been just fine. You may or may not want to make the fin fairing out of 3-4 four strips or do a single piece, flower-petal type. The two-piece is a bit blocky (IMHO). I did the canopy and turtleback correctly this time. The assembly sequence must be canopy, then turtleback, then fin fairing since they overlap. More tomorrow after I get some wires and cables strung on the Fokker E.V and SSW D.III.

http://www.oldtroll.com/images/Corsair-24.jpg

http://www.oldtroll.com/images/Corsair-25.jpg

[Willja67]

Nice work Ron!

I'm fiddling with that vertical stab fairing and adding a third section. I'm not too happy about the way color scheme on the vertical stab looks, any suggestions on ways to spruce it up a bit or am I just being paranoid? Specifically the white stripe,should I maybe get rid of the horizontal portion?

[shrike]

I'd get rid of the white horizontal line and the black at the bottom of the rudder (or rather below the rudder) Bring the white stripe down to meet the stripe on the rudder, and/or meet the corresponding stripe on the stab.

If you have to, put a teardrop of white large enough to smooth the joint of the stripes, and either echo the race number there, or put a red center to it.

[Willja67]

That sounds like it has some merit. Just throwing this out to see what ya'll think, what if I just make the whole vertical stab black and the the horizontal stabs red (they are basically the same) that way there are no transition issues ie KISS?

[dansls1]

Solid colors would work - or if you want a pattern, make it more of a 'swoosh'. Pick a point on the stab and take the white lines back at angles like a 'V' with the red around it the same way. It doesn't give the look of speed right now. The KISS idea certainly has merit though ;)

[shrike]

Solid colour surfaces would work too. Simplicity does have it's appeal

[Willja67]

I've come up with a name for this racer: "Mr Hyde" Whaddya think? Now I need a logo.

[shrike]

If I may? .

[Willja67]

Good start, do you think you could go a little darker and meaner? It just seems a little too Dr Jekyll at the moment. For some reason I have this image of really bloodshot eyes in my mind.

[Don Boose]

Looks great, but not like Mr. Hyde. As a long-time New Yorker reader, I think he looks more like a hot-rod version of Eustice Tilley (http://www.pbase.com/csw62/the_new_yorker).

Don

[shrike]

It is. I was playing of the idea of Dr Jekyll being portrayed as an very upright citizen

[B-Manic]

More Hyde like . . .

[shrike]

One port, one starboard?

[Willja67]

I like it, maybe put a top hat on him and color it so the background outside the red circle is black (obviously making allowances for the black top hat sticking out of the circle) and I think I'd like to stick that on either side of the vertical stab.

[B-Manic]

That's about the best I can do . . .

[Willja67]

I say that's pretty dang good!

[Don Boose]

Looks like you've captured him -- he's Hydeous!

[member_3]

Will - I haven't forgotten you, it's just that my hands are being uncooperative (arthritis) and I can't do any cutting. Hopefully they wil respond to heat and pills...

[Willja67]

Hey no problem I appreciate what you've done and you did it very quickly. Course I am about 90% of the way done prepping the files to send to Mike just waiting on your build so if there any lunatics just dying to get their hands on it you may have to answer to them.:D

[member_3]

Was surfing and found this site - you are probably already aware of it...

http://www.aviationartstore.com/cook_cleland_2.htm

[Willja67]

Actually I don't think I have. Thanks! Hope your hands get feeling better and any other joints similarly affected.

[member_3]

I think this is something close to how things go together...

http://www.oldtroll.com/images/corsair-26.jpg

http://www.oldtroll.com/images/corsair-27.jpg

And a shot of the left side where I blacked out the red on the fin/rudder...

http://www.oldtroll.com/images/corsair-28.jpg

Fit is all OK up to this point. Will, do you have colored wing skins yet?

[Willja67]

Great Job! They are on their way.

What do you think of the red and particularly the white stripe on the nose?

[member_3]

I like the red/white at the top of the nose - it really sets it off visually. As you can see from the photos there is a little problem with the flow of the lines (white, mostly) on the cowl and scoop segments - that might need some tweaking on your part.

[birder]

that looks really nice!

[member_3]

OK - we have now discovered that spinners are not my strong point. Will, I think if I was doing it again I would cut your one-piece spinner part into individual bands and then butt glue them together one at a time. I found that working with them all on the same piece was a bit unwieldy - but that could just be me making excuses.

http://www.oldtroll.com/images/corsair-29.jpg

[Willja67]

Well I was wondering how that was going to work out and considering making it a bunch of separate pieces. Before I go ahead and do that are there any strong opinions one way or another?

But in any case Ron you made it look pretty good.

[member_3]

There is nothing really wrong with the spinner as it is - I was just voicing my personal preference for shapes like that in general.

[GreMir]

Separate bands, please...

Man, this plane looks good......................

[CMDRTED]

I second Mikes reply, I don't like petals that much!

[dansls1]

I would prefer separate rings or a petal over the adjoined ring piece myself. Probably separate rings, then petals.

[Willja67]

I'll separate the rings then. The only reason i use petals at all is that when you get to a certain size rings just don't work any more but as a general rule I HATE petals. Has to do with my dislike of seams. There are always more seams it seems when using petals.

[member_3]

Will - the inner wing assembly has made me want to huddle in a corner in a quiet, dark place and suck my thumb. The photo shows the right inner wing mostly glued up (the gaping seams at the leading edge "bend" are not yet glued). I am going to reprint and redo it because I did not achieve the fit I wanted. As before, nothing wrong with the design, it is just a very complex shape that requires precise cutting and very careful gluing while using your third and fourth hands to hold everything at the correct curvature. But then you knew that, having done it yourself. Just wanted everyone to know that I am still working on it (and nothing else!!!) despite rumors and build threads to the contrary. I think for purposes of the alpha build I am going to complete just the right wing and stab and call it quits until the real thing is published by Gremir. Everything else has already been proof-built by you and others and doesn't need duplication by me. Now, back to work on the wing with a better cutting/assembly job this time.

http://www.oldtroll.com/images/corsair-30.jpg

[Willja67]

Well truth be told Ron there are some changes to the design in here that I was wondering if you would notice. Very subtle changes to be sure but changes nonetheless. Don't build it again till I get you the revised sheets. I think that a critical step in the construction is to trim the outlines off the piece. With #57 it was easy because the black outlines were easy to see, obviously that benefit does not exist with this model(one more reason to be called Mr Hyde). I'm going to mess around and see what the best color is for the outlines. Also I always wrap the skin around the wing before putting in the middle of the leading edge (G8).

I am changing things on the Super Detailed Super Corsair (henceforth to be known as SDSC) that i hope will make assembly easier in this regard. Once again thank you very much.

[member_3]

OK - I will hold off until the revised inner sections arrive. My intent was to do exactly as you describe - trim off the outlines (or where I guessed them to be). The reason for gluing G8 was to make sure the assembly did not deform as it was wrapped around the frame. I did notice some differences between this and #57 and attributed them to the fact that this one doesn't have separate flaps. I put the #57 build on hold until the alpha build was done so I could use this one as a training aid <g>

[Willja67]

New parts should be in everyones email.

[dansls1]

Man - I so want to print this out and start on this - but I must concentrate on the Beaufort.
*No more models until you are sure the Beaufort will be done by the deadline*

Now, I need a chalkboard so I can write that 50 times ;)

[Willja67]

Oh come on you know that the Super Corsair is so much cooler than an old Beaufort. So many people participated in the OTDAEABT contest that one entry not making the deadline won't be a problem you know you can finish it later.:D (Those horns are starting to show a little too much, wait that's my thinning hair failing to hide them adequately!)

[member_3]

OK - now I am forced to present evidence that a five-star design and a three-star(?) builder don't mix well. The revised inner panels are easier to deal with in terms of where to cut. This part of the plane, like most of it, is very tightly designed and requires dead-on cutting and assembly. I'd say I scored about 95% here with the generous use of a black marker almost hiding my deficiencies. The wing fillet is not glued in place in the photo as I was trying to get a good fit before commiting to glue. The new wing root intakes are perfect the way they are. You might even be able to slip them in place after the inner panel and fillet were in place but I preferred to glue the intake to the inner panel skin and then use the intake to align the fillet. I have to confess that I was close to calling it quits but now that I know the inner wing is actually not that difficult to do I will press on with the outer right panel and the right stab. Will, I followed your suggestion and completely assembled the inner panel skin with exception of G8. I then used G8 to make sure things were getting glued in the right place and once the panel was wrapped, glued G8 in place. This is one hot looking aircraft and one you can be quite proud of.

http://www.oldtroll.com/images/Corsair-31.jpg

This shot was intended to show the root intake but black on black doesn't show well. Again, the fillet is not glued in place yet.

http://www.oldtroll.com/images/Corsair-32.jpg

[Willja67]

Ron I think you sell yourself short on building skill. If there are any alignment issues with all the striping between the fillet and fuselage and wing I hope you'll let me know. You're making the process of getting this ready ten times easier than it would otherwise be.

[member_3]

Ta-da! Here is the final installment (since I assume the left side builds the same as the right side) of my contribution. The wing fillet glued up without much pain except where I had squeezed the inner panel trailing edge during its assembly which made it difficult to get the fillet to smoothly join with it. the outer panel and wing tip were no problem. The slight misalignment of the stripe between inner and outer panels is a builder problem, not a design problem. That wingtip is a strange little thing that was baffling me until I actually started gluing it and then it just assumed the correct configuration. The horizontal stabilizer also was quite easy to install. I blacked out the fin/rudder since I believe that is what you decided to do with it (with the Hyde image added, I presume).

http://www.oldtroll.com/images/corsair-33.jpg

http://www.oldtroll.com/images/corsair-34.jpg

http://www.oldtroll.com/images/corsair-35.jpg

One of the two places where stripes didn't flow smoothly - mentioned before, I think.

http://www.oldtroll.com/images/corsair-36.jpg

And the other one - also mentioned before.

http://www.oldtroll.com/images/corsair-37.jpg

And finally, a bottom shot to show the striking design there.

http://www.oldtroll.com/images/corsair-38.jpg

I think I have done all the new/changed components and am happy to report that the fit is A-OK on all of it. I'm going to hang it up on this one until the final product is released by you/Mike. Thanks for the opportunity to play with something new and to help out. Now where the heck are the goods from those other alpha builders??? :)

[Willja67]

Many Many Many thanks Ron! You just moved the release date on this up by about 6 months. I know you are already plunging yourself into another couple of builds but if you care to tackle the alpha or beta of the SDSC you're more than welcome(when it's ready).

[member_3]

Ohhhhhh yeahhhhhh! Bring it on (when its ready)!