Dagger

[ultra]

Originally Posted by treadhead1952

Hi Ultra Stone,

As per your request on the specs of each of these knives, starting with the first picture, the top knife is called a Kentucky Toothpick. Overall length is 13 inches, Blade Length is 7 an 7/16 inches, width is 1 and 15/32 inches, thickness is 3/16 of an inch. The brass hilt is 5/8's of an inch thick and wide and 2 and 3/4's of an inch from tip to tip. The wooden portion of the grip is 1 and 1/8th of an inch at it's widest point, 4 and 1/8th of an inch long. The brass cap is 7/8ths of an inch long and one inch in diameter. Weight is 9.9 ounces. The first inch and a half of the blade from the hilt past the curved portions is actually flattened and not sharp at all, as it is designed to be held in this manner in use.



The second one is called a Cobblestone Bowie, name comes from the hilt ends shaped like small cobblestones. It has the traditional false upper blade ending in a sharp point like most Bowie shapes. It is a full 15 inches long overall with a 9 and 3/4 inch long blade that is an 1/8th of an inch thick and an inch and a half wide. The hilt is 3/8ths of an inch thick, 1 inch wide and 3 and 1/8th inch from top to bottom. The wood grip is an inch and 3/8ths tall and an inch and 1/8th wide at it's fullest point tapering to each end with the forward part thicker to aid in control. The full inch and 3/8ths diameter round "hammer" faced grip cap is solid brass and screws onto the full length tang of the blade making for a very strong and sturdy knife. The grip cap measures and inch and 3/8ths from the grip to it's face. It weighs 14 and 1/4 ounces.

The third one is called a Montana Bowie but is actually designed more like the stock knives that were used as utility knives by cattlemen in the late 1800's. Like the other two knives above it, it has a full length tang, that is to say the blade is carried all the way back to the end of the grip. The grip panels are riveted to the tang through the wood and ebony with a brass spacer separating the wood and ebony sections. Overall length is 13 and 1/2 inches with a 8 and 1/4 inch blade length that is 5/16ths of an inch thick. It is a slender blade at 1 and 1/4 inch for all that length. The hilt is 1/8th of an inch thick, 3/4s of an inch wide and 2 and 5/8s of an inch from top to bottom. The ebony section of the grip is supposed to represent horn but is actually a resin compound, it measures 1 and 1/8th inch long, 3/8ths of an inch thick and is the width of the hilt, 1 inch wide. The wood scales are 3/8ths of an inch thick, 3 and 7/8ths inches long at the longest point and an inch top to bottom. It weighs in at 11 point 4 ounces.

Bear in mind that the upper two knives were earlier designs that were fighting type knives with grip caps that were made to strike an opponent while the third one is a more utility type or working knife. The second picture shows the Kentucky Toothpick on the bottom and one of my favorites, an Arkansas Toothpick on the top. Jim Bowie would have been familiar with these designs as they were in use in the 1820 through to the 1900's. The Arkansas Toothpick was actually a popular design during the Civil War. This particular specimen is massive.

Overall length is 17 and 7/8ths inches with a 3/8ths inch thick blade that tapers from 2 inches wide to a needle point in 12 and a half inches of blade length. The tang extends to the brass grip cap that is 7/8ths of an inch in diameter and 3/4s of an inch thick. The wooden grip is an inch and 1/8th in diameter and tapered so that you can wrap your little finger completely around the smallest portion. The hilt is 3/16ths inch thick brass, an inch an a half wide and is three and 5/8ths of an inch top to bottom.

I will carry on with the other knives tomorrow as my time is somewhat limited this evening, I have a date. As you can tell, I do like my blades.

Originally Posted by Miles Linnabery

Dear Ultra:
Back in the Dark ages (LOL) 20 years ago I taught wood carving to senior citizens for a while we made wooden copies of historic blades. we used the copy machine to blowup or copy real knives to make the patterens. 1/2 or 1/4 scale worked for making envolope openers. Suggest you print out the pictures from TreadHead and blow up on copier.
Go to the school Library or city lib and subject search for Knives and swords Herrold Peterson wrote severial books with good pictures in them.
Have fun,
MILES

Dear TreadHead:
Do you have a Commando (Engish) knife Scikes-Farborn Miss-spelled?
Could you post a picture I would Like to try to make one.
Thanks
MILES

thnx for that and about going to lib or my school it's really not an option around here as unfortunately info on this subject is really and i mean really poor

Originally Posted by treadhead1952

Hi Miles,

I take it you mean the Sykes Fairbairn Dagger that was designed by the late Police Commissioner of Singapore for use by the British Commando forces. He was also instrumental in training of these forces in hand to hand combat techniques that he developed fighting against the Chinese Tongs and other criminals in Singapore.

And yes, I do.



Specs for this one are as follows. Overall length 11 inches, blade length 6 and 7/8ths inches. Hilt is 1/16th of an inch thick, 3/4's of an inch wide and measures 2 and 1/8th inches from top to bottom. The grip is cast metal 4 inches long, widest point is 7/8th of an inch. A very light, handy, and nasty bit of work as the Royal Army described it.

thnx for accepting my request and please continue on whenever you feel like it

ultra stone

[treadhead1952]

Hi Ultra Stone,

I am not too surprised at the lack of detailed information on this subject. While there is a lot of historic background on the subject, it is one that is not the modern community librarian would relish due to the litigious nature of modern society. There is a lot of actual information that you can search out on the net as well as literature on the subject, but it would be more expensive since you would be dealing with a buyers market.

Knife fighting has been around as long as there were sharpened sticks to battle with between cavemen. Oriental treatises on the subject go back further in history than European literature simply because they were much more keen on documenting such things earlier in history. European Literature shows the 11th and 12th Century as periods when there were individual styles offered up in schools on combat technique first. These continued in favor right up to the introduction of firearms and our American fighting knives were developed as an accessory to the early single shot fire arms and slow reloading technique of these firearms. Even with the advent of multiple barreled firearms, knives were still popular.

Today they are considered an archaic weapon but the modern police schools all teach their students, do not let a knife wielding suspect get close to you, you will be at a disadvantage. And right they are, the human body is fragile at best and despite what is shown on TV and in the movies, open an artery or vein and two minutes later, you will not be able to carry on. A trained knife fighter can beat the odds of a firearm wielding opponent simply because there is less to do to with putting a knife into action up close and personal like. Okay, I will get off my soap box and carry on with the specifications list.

The next picture shown actually has a historic representation of what is called a "Coffin Handled Bowie Knife" as was originally designed by Jim Bowie on the top. It's weight is obtained simply because it uses a thick blade that is 5/16ths of an inch thick as the originals did. With the false edge on top making for a sweeping curved section forward below that was sharpened and pointed it could be used to stab or slash. With an overall length of 15 and 3/4s of an inch and a blade length of 10 and 3/8ths of an inch, it could be held back handed with the blade running the length of the forearm to fend off attack from even a sword length weapon. The hilt is an 1/8th of an inch thick, 3/4s of an inch wide and a full 3 inches long top to bottom. This was also one of the selling points of the Bowie Design as it prevented the hand from sliding forward up the blade in action. Bowie's brother had this happen to him in a fight and very nearly lost a couple of his fingers as a result. When he designed the original pattern, the large hilt was added. The coffin handle is laid out so that the hand has a narrow in the middle the the fingers can grip solidly and a larger section to the rear that prevents the hand from sliding backwards. The scales or wooden parts of the grip are 3/8ths of an inch thick. At the widest point of the blade it is 1 and 3/4s of an inch wide, at the hilt it is 1 and 1/2 inches wide. The Cobblestone Bowie below it is what the Bowie design evolved into later in the 1800's with better metallurgical techniques allowing the tapering of the blade along it's length to gain weight even further forward than the originals.

Below these two traditional type Bowie Knives is a much more modern representation that is called the Alabama Slammer, so called from the pointed bone crusher on the bottom of the grip. It has the Bowie type shape and was given to me by a girl friend as a gift for that reason. I would not have purchased it as it is actually not historically representative of anything, but what can you say to the ladies when they are trying to please you.

The next picture has a matched pair of heavy Bowies that like the Arkansas Toothpick are simply massive. It is made with a 1/4 inch thick steel blank that is 15 and 1/2 inches overall with a 10 and 7/8th inch blade length. The false taper on the upper part of the forward section leads to a needle sharp tip. At it's widest part it is 2 and 7/8ths inches wide. The brass grip is a 1/4 inch Thick like the blade is. It is an inch wide and 4 inches long top to bottom. As you can tell by looking, the ends of the hilt are beaten so that they are thicker at the outer ends. The scales are 1 and 1/8 inch around and enclose the round tang that comes off the blade. The three brass rivets are through the steel and wood. Each weighs in at one pound six ounces, like I said, massive. You would have to be "Arnie" sized to wield these beasts properly. :D

[ultra]

Originally Posted by treadhead1952

Hi Ultra Stone,

I am not too surprised at the lack of detailed information on this subject. While there is a lot of historic background on the subject, it is one that is not the modern community librarian would relish due to the litigious nature of modern society. There is a lot of actual information that you can search out on the net as well as literature on the subject, but it would be more expensive since you would be dealing with a buyers market.

Knife fighting has been around as long as there were sharpened sticks to battle with between cavemen. Oriental treatises on the subject go back further in history than European literature simply because they were much more keen on documenting such things earlier in history. European Literature shows the 11th and 12th Century as periods when there were individual styles offered up in schools on combat technique first. These continued in favor right up to the introduction of firearms and our American fighting knives were developed as an accessory to the early single shot fire arms and slow reloading technique of these firearms. Even with the advent of multiple barreled firearms, knives were still popular.

Today they are considered an archaic weapon but the modern police schools all teach their students, do not let a knife wielding suspect get close to you, you will be at a disadvantage. And right they are, the human body is fragile at best and despite what is shown on TV and in the movies, open an artery or vein and two minutes later, you will not be able to carry on. A trained knife fighter can beat the odds of a firearm wielding opponent simply because there is less to do to with putting a knife into action up close and personal like. Okay, I will get off my soap box and carry on with the specifications list.

The next picture shown actually has a historic representation of what is called a "Coffin Handled Bowie Knife" as was originally designed by Jim Bowie on the top. It's weight is obtained simply because it uses a thick blade that is 5/16ths of an inch thick as the originals did. With the false edge on top making for a sweeping curved section forward below that was sharpened and pointed it could be used to stab or slash. With an overall length of 15 and 3/4s of an inch and a blade length of 10 and 3/8ths of an inch, it could be held back handed with the blade running the length of the forearm to fend off attack from even a sword length weapon. The hilt is an 1/8th of an inch thick, 3/4s of an inch wide and a full 3 inches long top to bottom. This was also one of the selling points of the Bowie Design as it prevented the hand from sliding forward up the blade in action. Bowie's brother had this happen to him in a fight and very nearly lost a couple of his fingers as a result. When he designed the original pattern, the large hilt was added. The coffin handle is laid out so that the hand has a narrow in the middle the the fingers can grip solidly and a larger section to the rear that prevents the hand from sliding backwards. The scales or wooden parts of the grip are 3/8ths of an inch thick. At the widest point of the blade it is 1 and 3/4s of an inch wide, at the hilt it is 1 and 1/2 inches wide. The Cobblestone Bowie below it is what the Bowie design evolved into later in the 1800's with better metallurgical techniques allowing the tapering of the blade along it's length to gain weight even further forward than the originals.

Below these two traditional type Bowie Knives is a much more modern representation that is called the Alabama Slammer, so called from the pointed bone crusher on the bottom of the grip. It has the Bowie type shape and was given to me by a girl friend as a gift for that reason. I would not have purchased it as it is actually not historically representative of anything, but what can you say to the ladies when they are trying to please you.

The next picture has a matched pair of heavy Bowies that like the Arkansas Toothpick are simply massive. It is made with a 1/4 inch thick steel blank that is 15 and 1/2 inches overall with a 10 and 7/8th inch blade length. The false taper on the upper part of the forward section leads to a needle sharp tip. At it's widest part it is 2 and 7/8ths inches wide. The brass grip is a 1/4 inch Thick like the blade is. It is an inch wide and 4 inches long top to bottom. As you can tell by looking, the ends of the hilt are beaten so that they are thicker at the outer ends. The scales are 1 and 1/8 inch around and enclose the round tang that comes off the blade. The three brass rivets are through the steel and wood. Each weighs in at one pound six ounces, like I said, massive. You would have to be "Arnie" sized to wield these beasts properly. :D

i ran out of words to thank u properly so i can only say thank you very much for this valuable info

and you are right about the advantage of having a blade against a firearm for close quarter combat a knife always wins

thank u again

ultra stone

[ultra]

okay the last thing then you're not going to see me for a long time

The Sheath

i did some vector art (at least i think it is) on it so it would look kinda cool

that's it thnx to all who have commented

good bye

ultra stone

[treadhead1952]

Originally Posted by ultra

okay the last thing then you're not going to see me for a long time

The Sheath

i did some vector art (at least i think it is) on it so it would look kinda cool

that's it thnx to all who have commented

good bye

ultra stone

Gee, are you leaving for parts unknown, or have I given you enough detailed information to keep you busy for a while?

Nice job on your sheath by the way.

[redwolf28386]

Your dagger came out way cool!Why not try a short sword next, maybe 'Sting" from the Hobbit?

[ultra]

Originally Posted by treadhead1952

Gee, are you leaving for parts unknown, or have I given you enough detailed information to keep you busy for a while?

Nice job on your sheath by the way.

well the time i did the dagger was my very short vacation (like 2 days) so i am returning to studying for the rest of the year (at least until June) and yeah you gave me enough info to keep busy for a long time (at least free time)

Originally Posted by redwolf28386

Your dagger came out way cool!Why not try a short sword next, maybe 'Sting" from the Hobbit?

thnx

well that's a good idea

ultra stone