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  #11  
Old 10-21-2010, 08:53 PM
zeawolves77 zeawolves77 is offline
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thanks for the feedback all

@Jim: yes, a step by step approach is what I've been looking for.
@Wilfried: let say I have the technical drawing of the ship. front, side, top, bottom view. usually I will match the top and side view, crop it a little then scale it down to my desired scale - than print it out.

after that, I try to make the pattern out of it. Biggest challenge was and still, I can't find an efficient way to 'map' the curve side of the bow to a flat pattern in paper.

(picture will talk more than words , I attach currently the biggest challenge for me to make a paper ship pattern)
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  #12  
Old 10-21-2010, 10:30 PM
John Wagenseil John Wagenseil is offline
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I don;t know if your question has already been answered but this might give you some leads.
Find web sites catering to traditional wood ship building, both full size and model, and find information on "lofting". This was manual drafting technique for drawing up full size ships lines from plans.
If you search the Internet Archive you might also find late 19th and early 20th century text books on steel ship design including lofting and drafting techniques.
Hope this helps, good luck.
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  #13  
Old 10-21-2010, 11:13 PM
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Darwin Darwin is offline
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The method I use is to first produce as accurate a framework for the hull as I can. This is not difficult if you have a decent set of scale drawings to start with. Once the framework is built, I then do the hull skins as if I were covering a stick and tissue airplane. Lay a piece of paper against the frame, and start trimming until it fits onto the framework. When there are severe compound curves such as in the bow, this means figuring out places to cut darts and gussets to get the flat sheet to take on the proper curves. Once the paper fits on the hull (dry fit, of course), flatten out the part and scan it. Use your drawing program to refine outline, and go through an iterative process of cutting out the piece, finding out where the fit problems are, draw in corrections, etc. until you are happy with it. In short....the skills needed are those of the pattern maker, not the draftsman.
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  #14  
Old 10-22-2010, 04:55 AM
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Werner Smuts Werner Smuts is offline
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This is quite interesting! Thanks for the info.
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  #15  
Old 10-22-2010, 07:09 AM
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jimkrauzlis jimkrauzlis is offline
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Quite a lot of great information and suggestions from all!

I will try out the Deftship program, hadn't tried it before and it might be helpful.

Speaking of using software for creating hull designs, I had tried Metaseq in the past but for some reason just didn't seem to get the hang of it, but that is most assuredly my not taking the time to learn the program. What I was looking to do was to take a set of plans, insert it as a background image to the software, and use the program to trace out a set of frames to create the hull shape. Metaseq seems to be good for this, if I could only figure out the correct method of creating the frames in a proper format (again, just a matter of taking my time to learn this, but sufficient spare time is something that seems fleeting).

I gather Rhino is superb for this also, once you learn the program.

I have even thought of the old fashion method, having had a bit of experience in wooden ship building, which uses a framing method similar to the egg crate method a number of ship model designers use, but just make the bulkhead formers and profile shapes out of card. I could then use Darwin's method of custom fitting the hull plates; this is pretty much what Barry was doing in a very early design thread, before he started using Metaseq. For the size models I build, this would be very doable once I get the frames cut out. Sure, it's a lot of cutting, fitting, scanning, cutting, fitting, scanning, etc., but as Darwin says that is what you need to do for a proper fitting "jacket". I gather the Metaseq program does this electronically, although I am not sure whether or not that program has limits on the ability to create smooth curves when the model is expanded to a flat configuration ("unfolded"). I gather Pepakura is used for unfolding the Metaseq information.

Anyway, again I am going too long, suffice to say I will certainly use the wonderful advice everyone has so generously shared in this thread and who knows, I might end up with something that someone else might be interested in...stranger things have happened!:D

First I have to locate a set of plans for the ship I am interested in, and then we'll see where that takes me.

Thanks again to all!

Cheers!
Jim
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  #16  
Old 10-22-2010, 08:24 AM
Jonnio Jonnio is offline
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I just came across this review on a book on this very topic on modelwarhips.com

Here's the link:

ModelWarships.com Review page

Scroll down to the books section

Last edited by Jonnio; 10-22-2010 at 08:25 AM. Reason: More information needed in post
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  #17  
Old 10-22-2010, 02:49 PM
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Wilfried Wilfried is offline
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Hello gentlemen,

let me pick up the last post of seawolf; but first l would like to talk a little bit about our material cardboard and his physical properties.
If you wish getting acceptable results you should work together with the material!
Using the properties for your work especially the running direction of the paper.
The pic LETTER shows the running direction - with the red line added.
Drawing B explains how we can use this for our shipdesign.
With drawing C I try to give an answer to the question of seawolf (figure 1).
The blue arrows keep the eye on the critical sites of the planking. You can only roll the material in one direction. If you want go into a second, you have split it and glue the edges together. For example figure 2.

But first of all I agree totally with Darwin and his method. Mine is the same. A carefully build up hull framework and the deck in the right place.
And the next steps you can see here in my construction report:

A freighter for the North German Lloyd - try and error?

With lovely greetings and a happy weekend!
the Wilfried
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  #18  
Old 10-22-2010, 07:10 PM
zeawolves77 zeawolves77 is offline
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thanks all for the valuable information.

@John: thanks for pointing out about lofting
@Darwin, Wilfried: I'll try your approach, currently I'm refining the rough plan I got on hand. I'm aiming to build a cruise ship. thanks a lot. (and Wilfried: wow, great build you got there. a real eye opening )
@Jim: hope you can master the deftship in no time.
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  #19  
Old 11-21-2010, 10:14 AM
reklein reklein is offline
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Well,.....This a month late but thought I'd add my 2 cents. If you can carve a little, try making a half hull model and then take the lines off with a contour gage at measured stations.
Use an easiy to carve material such as pink foam from Home depot.You can glue 2 inch layers together to get the bulk you need. Use a hot wire to rough out the form,then a sanding device to refine the form. You can then harden the surface with epoxy resin such as west systems epoxy to preserve the shape. Anyway this is not paper modeling by any means but it will get the shape you need. You can then derive your cross sections and even the skin from a real model. These cross sections and skins can be scaled up or down by use of a copier toget the size you need. BILL
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  #20  
Old 01-08-2013, 02:45 AM
RdK RdK is offline
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Hi there!

Just found this (somewhat old) thread, but I think this is an always current topic, so I would like to add my 2 cents also:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darwin View Post
The method I use is to first produce as accurate a framework for the hull as I can. This is not difficult if you have a decent set of scale drawings to start with. Once the framework is built, I then do the hull skins as if I were covering a stick and tissue airplane. Lay a piece of paper against the frame, and start trimming until it fits onto the framework. When there are severe compound curves such as in the bow, this means figuring out places to cut darts and gussets to get the flat sheet to take on the proper curves. Once the paper fits on the hull (dry fit, of course), flatten out the part and scan it. Use your drawing program to refine outline, and go through an iterative process of cutting out the piece, finding out where the fit problems are, draw in corrections, etc. until you are happy with it. In short....the skills needed are those of the pattern maker, not the draftsman.
I agree absolutely with Darwin, I did the same with my Mayflower build without the scanning and drawing program. But here I had some "...decent scale drawings to start with..." for the frame.

Without any PC program and drawings in the first place for the frame, one need to find (or invent) a so called buttock line diagram as close to the ship hull form as possible (some can be found on the internet or in books).
This can then be changed.
A "dry fit" by making a first preliminary "3-D model" of the frames can give a "first impression and optical correction" (cut the shape in form or make a bit bigger frames as required). Then it is good to make a "top view" drawing and compare different lines at different heights i.e. waterline, decks, imaginary horizontal waterlines above and below the waterline (for instance 2 lines each).
One can draw a nice curvature of the hull and see, where the buttock lines/frames do not fit (using a ruler and a pen). Sometimes one has to add a mm or two, somtimes remove from a certain frame position.I do not reccomend repositioning the frames, though. Rather to trim the individual frames as required!!
Then I correct (redraw on the old one) the buttock line diagram and make the actual frames.

I use this approach in my new build of the Neptune, a spanish galleon from the 17th century.
Here's the link.

After all it is really all about your "fitting and drawing skills"...

Hope this is a bit useful. If you want I could make some "step by step" photos...

Rgds,
RdK
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