I need help finding glue

[Jim Nunn]

Nstarkel,

Most models require that Bulkheads, Braces and Basic Box formers are to be glued onto 1 or perhaps 2 mm thick card stock. I'm assuming that you are new to the hobby these parts are often marked with two asterisks ** too indicate that they are to be glued to 1 mm stock. Because the PVA white glues we use (Aleene's, Elmer's) are water based and if you use these glues to make up these large parts they will warp. The spray glue discussed here 3M-77 is a solvent based glue and will not warp these large parts.

Some of us also make up our own thick card stock by gluing 2 sheets of 67lb card stock to make 0.5 mm thick stock and 4 sheets to make 1 mm thick stock. I know that there are other solvent glues that would work as well and I am sure other members will chime in and suggest other brands that they like.

Jim Nunn

[Zathros]

If you are going to Michael's, as I have stated in many other posts, they are not allowed to sell the scrap pieces of their framing service. I have recieve 222' x 1.5' big! I always offer to pay, they always say no. Michael's also carries a clear glue called Zip Dry Paper Glue. This stuff is also excellent. Not too stinky, acid free, extremely flammable. It also is a Gel type glue. You do not need solvent glues to make models. I don't know why that is pushed so hard, but it is not necessary. Aleen's or Whit Elmers glues can seep into paper and this can be problematic. The 2 glues I mention do not have that problem. Not at all.

Years ago I used 3M's Spray glues. They are dangerous. They can give you Asthma or Bronchitis, triggered by the chemical adhesive that gets into the air. This is not an opinion it is fact. I know because my doctor told me what had caused mine when I got Bronchitis from it, and I was using a huge exhaust fan, he also mentioned that it affects a lot of people this way.. No one is addressing the health aspect but there is a head of steam building up for the 3M Products. Regardless, I think I have said enough on the matter. 3M makes some of the best tapes in existence though.

[Zathros]

It was 1:30 a.m., couldn't sleep for the usual reasons, this, "I have receive 222' x 1.5'"big!, should have been, "I have received 2' by 1.5' 1 .mm big". The other fat finger mistakes, are fat finger mistakes. Sorry!

I have attached a picture of "Zip Dry" glue that Micheal's sells. Incredible stuff.

[Jim Nunn]

Zathros,

I agree with you about the problems with the spray adhesive glues. I use them out doors with a breeze at my back. The issue I have is the warping of the parts so I'm going to give Zip Dry a shot. Being flammable it must have some solvents in it so it should not cause the paper to warp. I notice that it bonds metal to paper have you used it that?

Jim Nunn

[Zathros]

Originally Posted by Jim Nunn

Zathros,

I agree with you about the problems with the spray adhesive glues. I use them out doors with a breeze at my back. The issue I have is the warping of the parts so I'm going to give Zip Dry a shot. Being flammable it must have some solvents in it so it should not cause the paper to warp. I notice that it bonds metal to paper have you used it that?

Jim Nunn

Yes, it works great. It is a mechanical bond. So in that sense, you would use it as if you were soldering something together. Make surfaces are clean and use prodigiously, but you can still make clean (aesthetically) gluing scenarios. The can look like welders if your are careful. It drives clear, and I have painted on it, after it drives for a week or so. I mentioned this because it has solvents and I know that cna sometimes allow a glue to "bite' into the surface a bit. It has an dor, but nothing really bad. I would again that I do not mean to imply that people are not using the 3M products in the right manner. I live in Connecticut. I have read build threads when people are building models and it is really cold where they are, and they mention they are using Spray adhesives. Common sense dictates that something is not adding up here. So, I mention this not intending to impugn anyone's capabilities, just trying to show alternatives that work, in my opinion, better, as you can control exactly how much you put on with these type of glues, and with tooth picks, build up and make "molds' with the glues. Which I had done, using play dough, when fixing toys for my son.

I was looking at CDDavenport's Hunley build and realized by the way Zip Dry "dries", if extruded when semi-dry, one could easily make nuts or rivets using this glue, then color then with a "Sharpie", they seem to really take Sharpies well.

Again, this is one of those glues that if you glue 3 sides of paper, then touch them together a couple of times, you will see they they get stringy threads forming, I press the parts together at this point, using a book or other heavy object to ensure a "flat" part, it that is what is needed. When making a part that has a radius, or tube, you will find because of the high tacking of the glue, and long work time, it really helps i.e when forming tubes, and holding the radius, or arc, as the case may be. It does not penetrate the paper in my experience.

I am not an expert and these are just my experiences from using these products. I have a 27 year old rowboat/sailboat model (10 inches long) I made and at that time, much younger and ignorant, I poured liquid crazy glue all over the surface, I let it dry for a couple of days, till it smelled no more, then painted it. I still have that model, though, one of the balsa seats came out. It is quit rigid and is quite moisture proof. Many relatives have asked me for this model. HaHaHa!

Crazy glue, with the chemical accelerator has it purposes. I was stuck at home with my '73 MG Midget as I broke a pulley for the generator by trying to pry it with a screw driver. I took the piece with Gel type Crazy Glue and re-attached it, using the accelerant to speed things up.. I built up the backsides using the same method. It has held on for over 20 years, with no sign of loosening! I of course found another pulley, attached to another generator, but it still worked, so why change it?

[John Wagenseil]

"Scotch Maximum Strength Adhesive" works well on paper and a lot of other materials.

It contains good things: Isopropyl Alcohol, Methyl Ethyl Ketone and Epoxy Resins.

[Bionic Modeler]

I have had great success laminating parts using Aileens Tacky glue. I just squirt out a serpentine shape on the heaviest part and then spread with a heavy piece of cardboard or plastic like a spatula lay the thinner piece on top and roll it with a paper roller then press between two pieces of 1/4" melamine and a 10lb weight. You can pile them up with waxed paper between them. I get excellent results this way with no curling or warping.

[whulsey]

I have (and still occasionally) use 3M 77 glue, but as Zathros states it is nasty stuff. It was banned from use in the art building when I was an art student 40 years ago. When I do use it, its outside with a lot of newspaper laid down. The parts glued stayed outside in the storage room for a couple of days, the newspaper is bundeled up and straight into the dumpster. And even outside I'm wearing a paint respirator.

Will have to give these other glues mentioned a try.

[RickTNRebel]

Some guys here are really passionate about their glues! (lol) I don't like using spray adhesives at all. It seems like everything around feels 'tacky' for a couple of days or longer! But I do use them; I use 3M-77 and DURO (#81088) which is about the same as the 3M. Both have explosive volatiles in them such as propane and butane! Being nothing more than contact adhesives in a spray form, I'm a little leary about how long they'll keep the paper together. I've used a heat activated adhesive when I've applied veneers to furniture and I've considered trying them with paper and card, but they are quite thick. I've done pretty well spraying my paper with fixative and after drying, spraying light mist coats of WELDBOND thinned with isopropyl thru a pump mist sprayer. I let it tack and then laminate the two parts. You can thin any water based glue with alcohol to give it quick dry properties. This limits the moisture the paper can absorb, and reduces warping.The initial spraying (sealing) of the paper with fixative has a lot to do with it and protects the inks. From a health standpoint, I suppose the fixative is just as bad as the spray contact cements...(just put on my tombstone "Paper modeling killed him").
In another thread, I mentioned I'm currently experimenting with a new, quick dry, clear version of "Gorilla Glue" I just picked up...this is solvent based and may have some laminating potential.