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Old 09-22-2009, 10:31 AM
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Art Deco Art Deco is offline
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As long as we are talking about personal hobbying (and not competition or commerce), it seems to me the only criteria should be whether something is enjoyable and/or rewarding. If someone finds cutting formers to be a tedious chore, I see nothing wrong with them using laser-cut parts, if that makes their hobby time more fun.

After all, the whole notion of "short-cuts" or "cheating" is a slippery one. As Jagolden01 pointed out, it's all a matter of drawing arbitrary lines. Someone who frowns on the use of laser-cut formers is vulnerable to the frowns of a scratch-builder who scorns all "pre-designed" models. The scratch-builder in turn could be looked down upon by a purist who mixes his own inks or produces her own paper.

It's a hobby, it's supposed to be fun.
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Old 09-22-2009, 11:12 AM
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Wyvern Wyvern is offline
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Amen to that, Art Deco. Amen, brother.
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Old 09-22-2009, 11:45 AM
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Don Boose Don Boose is offline
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I'm pretty much in the same camp as that other old codger, Old Troll.

I have the greatest respect for the purists, but I also like multi-media models and my modeling skills are so modest that I take pride in anything that looks passably like the prototype regardless of whatever shortcuts I might have taken.

I, too, preferred Comets and the pleasures of cutting out the parts from balsa, but that was because the Comets actually made up into more flyable models and I rarely got good results from the die-crunched parts, not because I was a purist.

The real issue to me, personally, is, do the laser-cut parts fit accurately? If so, I am happy to use them (haven't done so yet).

My admiration for a model is undiminished if it has wooden spars, wire undercarriage bracing, photo-etched brass parts, a blown plastic canopy, thread for rigging, and laser-cut frames.

But my hat's also off to Bomarc and Gil and the others who can exercise a higher level of art and craft and produce amazing work without the helping hand of laser cutting and non-paper materials.

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Old 09-22-2009, 11:56 AM
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batidores batidores is offline
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I found this post by chance.
For reference and I must say that the CL 215 is my first experience in laser frames.
Specifically this aircraft has a rigid structure like a boat.
The Mitchell, has only 3 A3 sheets of laser frames.
For me the thickness of the cardboard is very correct, the cut right, and mount the structure reminded me of a T-Rex of my daughter. And it was fun not having to cut. :D
But ............
It is not the same ride a Zero-Sen (Mitsubishi A6M), few trainers or a Wright Flyer, (more cardboard sheets than paper ones)
Y. .... I had to laminate a good number of pieces, 3 large, the division between the hold and cabin, the roof of the cab and the end of the cave.
And a few small ones.
Not everything is perfect.
I would assess the complexity of the model, a large ship, saving time and brute force.
A small plane (Pitts Special 1:33), not worth it.

Care must be taken not to lose pieces that flow alone.
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Old 09-22-2009, 12:08 PM
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cjwalas cjwalas is offline
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Interesting question. I'm with the "whatever works for you" school. I really like the old Maly Moderarz kits for the simple reason that they do seem more in the spirit of paper model making (in my little mind, anyway) and when you get one of those old kits together, it feels like you've actually done something. That was the big appeal for me over p*****c kits, where it's more of simply assembling the model rather than "making" it, if that makes any sense. So I think there's that nostalgic fulfillment to the "old school" of paper modeling.
Having said that, I think it's unrealistic to expect an average modeler such as myself to achieve the same kind of results as a beautifully designed, computer-drawn, high quality printed kit of today's standard with laser cuts parts and vacuum-formed glazing. The technology of the day simply produces better models (usually).
It really comes down to what you want out of your modeling experience; if you want an incredibly detailed and accurate model that that really is hard to tell that it's paper, then I think you have to go with where the cutting edge is in the hobby. I mean really, if laser cut formers are a problem, then CAD drawn kits should be as well and only hand drawn kits should be acceptable.
For me, I like doing the old, hand drawn kits. I like seeing what the designers got right and wrong and somehow appreciating the effort and skill they put into their craft. Having said that, I just ordered my first kit with laser cut formers and vacuumed canopy!
There seems to be plenty of room in the hobby for all of it and more!
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Old 09-22-2009, 01:03 PM
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the hermit the hermit is offline
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its all about having fun and creating for me. i am very happy to buy the laser parts for many reasons some selfish some not. cutting 1 and 2 mm card is the hardest thing i can ask my arthritic hands to do, so its allmost a necessity for me. and also with as much as the models are pirated i gladly spend money on another item from model manufactures to help them make more money, i do what i can to help support them financially.
i think its not just a hobby but a art. i do not ever wish to see it go away.
it brings me much joy. and for those many reasons i will all ways buy the extra parts to help encourage there buisness and in the hopes that they continue to develope quality models...

thanks for listening.
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Old 09-22-2009, 04:18 PM
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shrike shrike is offline
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I've only built on kit using laser cut frames - which probably says something. I like the convenience for the most part, but when a former had exposed printed area, I found that it was almost easier to just cut it out rather than try to align the pieces. Plus I have everyone around me conditioned to save 1mm-ish cardboard<G>

OTOH, for ships, or some Halinskis, I may well spend the money
I'm not making it up as I go along, I'm establishing precedent
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Old 09-22-2009, 05:22 PM
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dansls1 dansls1 is offline
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Nice point of conversation. I haven't built any kits using laser cut frames yet - but plan to for my next build. And I agree that it's a short cut - but as Art Deco says - whatever makes it enjoyable.
Now pre-formed plastic canopies - I'm 100% for. I'm not ever going to try to form my own canopies because that's something that I wouldn't enjoy at all. So for me it's purchase canopies or do something else to simplify - but the idea of making a mold and forming plastic just doesn't excite me. Possibly because in college I spent time doing some pre-production automotive injection molding and vacu-forming so it turns out being too much like work I've had to do.
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Old 09-22-2009, 06:05 PM
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Barry Barry is offline
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I have no axe to grind either way it's all down to cost and the fact that the postage charges are so high. My budget says I can afford some card, glue fuse wire and just about a few printer cartridges. Everything else I scrouge or hoard. I would design my own models anyway because I can play in 3d which I love.

Ok I am totally discounting the computer equipment but that only amounted to about 260 all in amd my daughters bought it for me anyway.

In the end we only do it for enjoyment so whatever turns you on.

I do look wistfully at ships rails on every model still.
Shipcard Models

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Old 09-22-2009, 08:39 PM
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Paperwarrior Paperwarrior is offline
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This post has grown a lot since I saw it at work today. As such I've had a few hours to think about it.

My two cents is up to you. Cop out? Well, I look at it this way. The pleasure is in the build and the you get there is up to you. Some folks have physical issues...some of us are not getting younger and if we can get through the "hard cuts" by using some laser cuts, why not. I don't have an issue with "multi-media". After all, how many of us have used wire in our landing gear...or used plastic for the canopy (both in the case of aircraft, obviously).

There is a certain pleasure in making your own formers and being a purest. I agree with one of the earlier posts, I believe, what if you want to change the size of the model? I enjoy "kit bashing" to make my models a bit more detailed. Much easier if you are making or modifying your own formers.

I like both. For me it depends on the kit. If a laser cut is available, why not. Enjoy the build and enjoy the result.
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