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Old 09-22-2009, 06:26 AM
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Laser Cut Formers

Hi all!

Wasn't sure where to post this, but since I was hoping to get a discussion going, "Article Discussions" seemed like the logical choice.

Like resin and photo-etched aftermarket parts in the plastic modeler's world, laser cut formers have become firmly entrenched in the card model industry. I've work with laser cutters before, and know full well their capabilities as well as their limitations, and using one to cut card model formers seems like a no-brainer. However part of me feels like buying a sheet of ready cut formers it's "cheating" somehow, unless perhaps you happen to be the individual who created the digital files by which the cutter does it work.

When I was a kid, I built a fair number of "stick and tissue" balsa models. Two companies produced kits in the size and price range a lad of limited means such as myself could afford: Guillows and Comet. Guillows kits (still around today) featured "die cut" (precursor to "laser cut?") balsa wood, and vacuum-formed plastic cowlings, canopies, along with plastic wheels and propellers. Comet (sadly, long gone), on the other hand, had only printed sheets of balsa parts that the modeler had to cut out, wooden wheels, a sheet of clear acetate that was meant to form a canopy with (much like in card modeling), and they threw in blocks of balsa that was expected to be carved to shape for spinners and the like.

Well, I always gravitated to the Comet kits for a couple of reasons besides cost (Guillows kits were more expensive). First, their kits seem more "like the real thing", most being designed before and during WWII when such a kit was the only game in town, so they had to be designed well (their P-38 was a real gem of a kit), plus they had a certain nostalgia factor, which was cool. Second, and more importantly to a 10 year old boy, there was a greater sense of accomplishment when I completed a Comet kit. I cut out all those formers, and carved that spinner nose, and formed balsa or paper fillets, etc. etc.

Now I know laser cut formers offer lots of advantages over the "do it yourself" route:

Greater accuracy and fit of parts (probably the greatest reason)

Less time spent spent on a model (not sure that's a selling point for me)

The additional cost is somewhat offset by all the knife blades you didn't have use up to get to the same point.

I'm sure there's other points as well. I got to thinking about this yesterday after I saw Batidores wonderful build of the Orlik CL 215 fire bomber (Canadair CL 215 ORLIK "Scooper" or "Botijo"ORLIK 1:33). After reading that, I paid a visit to the Orlik site, and sure enough, they now offer a laser cut set of formers for their PBJ kit that I'm currently slugging through. I wondered, had that set had been available at the time I ordered my kit, would I have bought the formers too? And I came to the conclusion, no, I would not.

So what say you folks?

Mike
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Last edited by Bomarc; 09-22-2009 at 07:12 AM.
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Old 09-22-2009, 07:17 AM
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I say each to his/her own. Some people like to build models, some like to assemble kits, some a little of both. Personally I enjoy the challenge of doing it myself and using paper as much as possible. However, I do use laser cut paper guard rails.

To me a hobby is about having fun, I try not to be judgmental about how others build their models. I enjoy looking at the results regardless.
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Old 09-22-2009, 07:22 AM
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Good topic, Mike, should bring interesting discussion.

For myself, laser cut formers are a moot point because I never build at published scale so they're not available for me.

I prefer to build using paper/card and glue to achieve the end result. Some toothpicks or a wood dowel where necessary is fine for me. I'll sacrifice accuracy for trying to keep the build in the "card" form.
I build "representations" of real things, not "replicas". I'd like the person who sees it to get carried away by what it is and represents as something from history. To picture in their minds the object in use. I don't wish for it to be viewed as a technical achievement.
The entire build is the pleasure, the end is actually anti-climactic and a bit of a let-down.

Do I think using laser cut formers is "cheating"? No. Where can that line be drawn? Many builders completely repaint their models. After-market brass or wood gun barrels and railings, vacu-formed canopies, etc. On these boards I've seen people "cast" paper tires. Where would that fit?

Different folks need/use different methods and techniques to suit their wants/needs.

Did I cheat using window screening to help create the antenna on the Ranger Space Probe? No, it simply fulfilled a need.

I do think some of the building pleasure may be missed, but again, that depends on the wants of the builder.
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Old 09-22-2009, 07:28 AM
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Perhaps "cheating" is the wrong word. Probably "short cut" would be more suitable, as using pre-cut stuff certainly gets you to the finish line sooner. I guess what "scenery" you miss taking that short-cut is what I'm wondering.

Good point about scaling kits. That certainly would make pre-cut stuff a moot point.

Mike
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Old 09-22-2009, 07:34 AM
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First let me say, Mike, that you are apparently an old coot like me - my very first model ever was a Comet Piper Cub around 1948-49 (I was about six or seven at the time.) My dad had to do the cutting of parts for me since that required a single-edged razor blade but, as I recall, we got the job done.

I have mixed feelings and have had mixed results with laser frames. From a construction point of view I appreciate them IF THEY ARE ACCURATELY CUT. My Orlik SM-79 eventually succumbed to laser parts that were not quite the same size as the Orlik parts they were backing. One of the least enjoyable (for me) aspects of building a model is the laminating and cutting of 1mm/1.5mm/2mm thick pieces so I do appreciate a laser frame. Another laser capability that I appreciate is being able to cleanly and uniformly cut pieces that are small in cross-section (railings, WWI fighter wing ribs, etc.)

I concede that one is relinquishing a portion of one's "bragging rights" when one has to say, "I built this model (except for all the laser-cut parts)" but again, that is a personal matter for each builder to decide.

To laser or not to laser? That is a personal question for each modeler. More accurate? - almost certainly. Quicker construction? - at least in the beginning. Worth the money? - probably a wash when you figure in knife blades and the stress of cutting thick parts. Reduced pride in the finished model? - not for me but I am sure some "hard core" paper builders would disagree.

Let me add a small extension to this discussion - photo-etched parts. In the p*****c model world there are scores of detail parts by Eduard of Czechoslovakia and others that are absolutely exquisite in the level of detail possible. There are numerous 1:32 and 1:48 scale cockpits, instrument panels and seat belts whose detailing could probably not be matched in any other medium. I believe there was a build of a Halinski Ki-84 that used an Eduard instrument panel that was definitely enhanced by its use. Most recently we have Carl (Golden Bear) do some custom P-E work for his beautiful 19th century ship models.

For me the important part has always been the finished model (even though I so rarely finish one), not what material was used in the building. Perhaps we need to think of ourselves as multi-media modelers specializing in paper? Just a little more food for thought...

Mighty fine thread subject, Mike - if we can just keep Z, politics, the environment, pop artists, the economy and the 1,593 religions out of it...oops, too late, I guess I just included them!

Last edited by member_3; 09-22-2009 at 07:38 AM. Reason: tpyos
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Old 09-22-2009, 07:47 AM
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Old 09-22-2009, 07:48 AM
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That was not me, it was the cat. Sorry
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Old 09-22-2009, 09:32 AM
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That cat better watch his/her/its language! This is a family forum. Meow!
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Old 09-22-2009, 09:37 AM
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Well from my view... I know I can cut out parts. I can cut thick parts and I can transfer paper to card and cut it out. So okay, I can do that if I need. So if the model it have laser cut parts... it is okay. It just save me time for something I can do anyway.
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Old 09-22-2009, 09:59 AM
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I'm with the posts that say "it's up to you". We all bring different things to this hobby and the results we want are also unique to each of us. I'm more of the "end result" school; I model in paper to find subjects I can't get/afford in plastic or wood. That said, whatever techniques and materials get me the end result I want are fine by me- including, if I could afford them, laser-cut formers.

Wyvern
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