Lockheed PV 2 Harpoon "Hot Stuff"

[Wilfried]

Hello Mike,

I think you can minimize the parts by using a framework like I use for my funnel constructions?! I mean exactly the stripes with the badge...

With lovely greetings
the Wilfried

[mldixon]

Originally Posted by Zathros

Do it like real planes, use stringers and formers. Remember that formers on aircraft are not always full bulkheads, some are just extruded channels with flanges for attachment points to rivet the panels on. Also, Panels on real aircraft overlap, they do not but up against each other, and the overlap in the direction of airflow. This means you could, in reality, use thinner paper, knowing that when the panels overlap, the glue, and thickness of the overlapped panels will for a sort of skeleton within the craft. I would not use this method if you intend to join panels edge to edge.

I have been exploring the possibility to making a fuselage and then making a separate set of panels to mount over the fuselage, which allows the fuselage to be filled and sanded smooth. This would allow the paper used for panels to be made using extremely thin paper. The end result would show no joint sections.

I answered this but must have not hit the submit key. So again?
Make a white model then separate panels on another sheet and apply over the white model? Sounds labor intensive, but has real possibility. I have sanded joints on white model cards with no fillers and was happy with the results.

[mldixon]

Originally Posted by cdavenport

MIke, I'm going to stuff the formers with closed cell foam. It will lock the frame and prevent it from twisting. It will also give me something rock solid against which to adhere the panels.

Do you mean expanding close cell or precut blocks? I have experimented with the cans of close cell by injecting into frames after skins applied, nothing worth sharing though. Very messy stuff, and tenacious when it comes to clean up.

[mldixon]

Originally Posted by Uyraell

I'm neither designer nor engineer, so please forgive if this is an ignorant Question.

What would be wrong with having your Formers lock to each other via a cardboard version of a Dzsus Panel fastener?

Two or three small Dzsus-type Fasteners through a pair of formers would absolutely minimise any chance of fuselage creep or twist, and could in turn be used as "position markers" for the relevant external panels, such as "The forward edge of Panel A-6 lies in position next to DFA-6".

The fasteners themselves need only be either ++ or +> in section.

Just a very humbly offered and very respectful Question and suggestion, from one who seeks to understand more of our hobby.

{Incidentally, I have a "family connection" to the PV2's ancestor, the Hudson bomber.
A cousin was killed when the Hudson he was Dorsal Gunner aboard flew into the Rock itself. He is commemorated on a Memorial Panel at the Commonwealth Cemetery, his bodies and those of the rest of his crew buried at sea of Carnato Point, Gibraltar.}

Kind and Respectful Regards My friends, Uyraell.

Was not familiar with the name of this manufacturer of this fastner, but very familiar with fastener itself. An idea worth experimenting with, I'm always open to stepping off the well worn path to wander in the dark.

I am very keen on the idea of a lightweight strength magnet to hold the section so they can be pulled apart and then realigned for an interior view of cockpit details without destruction of the model proper. I don't pretend that this is my idea or original just have not seen it done yet.

Hudson story interesting, sorry he was killed . When you say the rock itself do you mean the Rock of Gibraltor? If so that is one heck of a story. Hudson history is very interesting well worth researching.

[mldixon]

Originally Posted by Wilfried

Hello Mike,

I think you can minimize the parts by using a framework like I use for my funnel constructions?! I mean exactly the stripes with the badge...

With lovely greetings
the Wilfried

Maybe you can expand a little more on this. I see it, but an not following exactly the stripes with badge statement . Sorry to be a little slow on this.

[SJPONeill]

Originally Posted by mldixon

I answered this but must have not hit the submit key. So again?
Make a white model then separate panels on another sheet and apply over the white model? Sounds labor intensive, but has real possibility. I have sanded joints on white model cards with no fillers and was happy with the results.

I was going to suggest this but you are already there - doubleskinning would work as an alternative to CD's foam approach, especially in areas that will be open for interior detail like the cockpit.

So far as foaming goes, i think that this design might be a little too complex to use the expanding foam direct and you would want to use the method that CD has covered in some of his build threads using foam blocks...

[Wilfried]

Originally Posted by mldixon

Maybe you can expand a little more on this. I see it, but an not following exactly the stripes with badge statement . Sorry to be a little slow on this.

Hello Mike,

let me explain with my limited knowledge what my idea is; take the framework of the funnel and put it from the vertical into the horizontal way - I think it's clearer than? Or take a look at the front section of the Ju-88 ... the less cuttings the better the model ...

with lovely greetings
the Wilfried

[Uyraell]

Originally Posted by mldixon

Was not familiar with the name of this manufacturer of this fastner, but very familiar with fastener itself. An idea worth experimenting with, I'm always open to stepping off the well worn path to wander in the dark.

I am very keen on the idea of a lightweight strength magnet to hold the section so they can be pulled apart and then realigned for an interior view of cockpit details without destruction of the model proper. I don't pretend that this is my idea or original just have not seen it done yet.

Hudson story interesting, sorry he was killed . When you say the rock itself do you mean the Rock of Gibraltor? If so that is one heck of a story. Hudson history is very interesting well worth researching.

Thank you for your kind words, Mike, they are much appreciated.

In that era, a plane taking off from Gibraltar had to head "inwards" towards the Med.
That meant as soon as wheels were off the ground an immediate 15 degree right turn (towards the African coast) had to be performed by the aircraft taking off.
There was a marker and a dimmed warning light on the Rock of Gibraltar itself, but this was naturally non-visible in conditions of fog.

Which is exactly how my cousin's crew and he died.
Early morning take-off (about 5.45am) in heavy fog, headed towards Malta before making a hard-right turn over Spanish Morocco and making a "Patrol Return" to the UK.
The pilot never saw the marker, and failed to make the 15 degree right turn in time. The aircraft flew straight into the Rock of Gibraltar, impacting mere yards from the marker. The bodies were identified by their dental records, since there wasn't much left to bury apart from the teeth and bones. The fire burned for around four hours.

As for the magnets: I think it a very reasonable idea with regard to having a detachable cockpit canopy to show the detail within the cockpit itself.
The Jetex modellers used paired magnets to fasten Jetex cowlings etc, so I dont see how employing magnets as you envisage entails any difficulties.

The suggestion of a Dzsus-like fastener was intended for employ in the further depths of the fuselage, where a pair of formers might well allow a "take-down" of the fuselage itself for maintenance or storage purposes.

I agree the Hudson bomber aircraft family has a long and interesting history, and I'm truly enjoying seeing your PV2 evolve.

Kind and Respectful Regards Mike my friend, Uyraell.

[mldixon]

So today I worked on the canopy as this is a pain to develop, I wanted this part finished so that I can work the cockpit into place under the final part. Gonna take awhile I think.

On another note. Spencer true to his word sent me a treasure trove of Pics. Little details that are hard to see unless you are right there. I also got the inside of the wheel wells which I will put to good use.

Thank you Spencer. Your the man...

[Zathros]

Just to let you know I am paying attention. I also feel that my suggestions should just to be taken with a grain of salt. I offered the idea of skinning after building the fuselage because of a problem I have with a model I designed. The complex nature calls for alignment marks and that would destroy the look of the craft, so skinning afterwards is an option that I have been exploring. I don't think that is necessary for this. Just staggering a couple of connection points of the fuselage sections will be enough to make the eye gloss over and follow the fair lines of the fuselage. Your work surely needs no suggestions from me. I am amazed at all you do, and the ejection seat is so incredible, it is a daunting proposition, seeing hoe you designed, and built it!!