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View Poll Results: What do you think?
Finish the design. 61 63.54%
Make it very detailed. 46 47.92%
Make it a one page quick build plane 9 9.38%
Get another hobby and let the pros take care of this. 0 0%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 96. You may not vote on this poll

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  #121  
Old 03-24-2012, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zathros View Post
The photos were obtained from this site:

Warbirds and Airshows - Lockheed PV-2 Harpoon Photo Gallery
Nice Link. Didn't find that one.
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  #122  
Old 03-24-2012, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdavenport View Post

So, I humbly, and I do mean humbly, suggest since you are doing ALL the work, that instead of bold black lines that seem to festoon many of the models we build, that you either shade the panel lines of use a more subtle gray line to suggest the presence of the panel. The shade of grey would depend on where an imaginary light source was hitting the seam. Logically, those on the upper part of the aircraft would be lighter and those on the bottom darker.

In both cases, the lines would be fine. Those areas where there are gaps between panels such as flaps, ailerons, etc. might reasonably executed in black. Since this is going to be a large model, you might even simulate rivets in the areas where they would have been most prominently visible on the aircraft. Ruben Andres Martinez is doing just that on his restoration of the huge Alan Rose DC-3.

Again, ideas for you to use or loose as you see fit. Thanks for even taking them into consideration!
I agree with what you have stated here, I think the plane needs to be modeled to best represent how it would look from distance. Highly detailed models get very busy visually. Having said that one of my favorite builds was Ken West X-15 a very detailed model.

I like this skinning theme but am now bogged down on shape. Working out these kinks before I get buried in Illustrator work. I have been doing some experimentation with some images i extracted from photos I got from Spencer. Making sure they hold up inside a vectored PDF as I enlarge and shrink it. So far so good.
I do plan on some gradient work in regards to lines and paint work, not sure about the rivets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spencermitchellmusic View Post
Charles, I agree with you as far as drawing the panel lines in a lighter shade of grey or have the line shaded. Also, please forgive me for being picky but most of the "dots" that you see printed on models of planes this size are not rivets. All of the removeable panels on this plane are held on by either screws or the aforementioned dzues fasteners. Any rivets on the plane would be unseen at this scale, the dzues fasteners however are quite large on the actual plane and would need to be drawn on (a challange I would not want to undertake as I know from experiance how many screws and fasteners there are on this beast!).
So I am not a rivet counter, which is a peeve of mine. I think a pounce wheel works best for that, or you may know it better as a star wheel. I have looked at a lot of photos and for the most part this plane seems very smooth unless you are very close.Then the details are apparent.
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  #123  
Old 03-24-2012, 09:52 PM
Zathros Zathros is offline
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Personally, I wouldn't put a rivet on the whole plane. It's easy enough it someone wanted to do themselves. Especially after looking at the photos of that really old one, siting in the sun for 50 odd years. A new one would, freshly painted would make the rivets all be invisible.
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  #124  
Old 03-24-2012, 10:23 PM
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I wasn't suggesting you put rivets on the model, just showing how they might be done if the scale was appropriate. But, Dzus fasteners with the dimpled area around them would look really cool if done in a restrained manner.

Not fussin', jus' discussin'
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  #125  
Old 03-24-2012, 10:37 PM
Zathros Zathros is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdavenport View Post
I wasn't suggesting you put rivets on the model, just showing how they might be done if the scale was appropriate. But, Dzus fasteners with the dimpled area around them would look really cool if done in a restrained manner.

Not fussin', jus' discussin'
Oh scale does have everything to do with it. On this plane (the Harpoon), they really seem visible in the nose section. I don't know what the final scale will be. The bigger, the more prominent everything becomes. Besides, depending on the craft, it could set it off.

CD, I have this picture of yours imprinted in my Brain! This picture says everything there is to be said about compound curves and panel lines.

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  #126  
Old 03-25-2012, 06:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zathros View Post
Oh scale does have everything to do with it. On this plane (the Harpoon), they really seem visible in the nose section. I don't know what the final scale will be. The bigger, the more prominent everything becomes. Besides, depending on the craft, it could set it off.

CD, I have this picture of yours imprinted in my Brain! This picture says everything there is to be said about compound curves and panel lines.

The trick is to get the joined sections to come together in an area where it disappears. As in the attached photo. It also helps to be a master of the craft when it comes to printing, cutting and gluing. I have seen plenty of good models put together poorly, and the opposite, poor models built by brilliant craftsman. As the old saying goes. “it's a poor craftsman who blames his tools”
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  #127  
Old 03-25-2012, 07:45 AM
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Moving right along

Here are some shots of more experimentation with the front of the plane's fuselage. I am still putting together some ideas. Not happy yet with the skinning concept. I like this method because you get an opportunity to sand the shape out perfectly. The problem is getting the skins on the thin paper to conform perfectly to the sanded fuselage. I am working on scale and overlap to try and resolve this.
Anyway here is another approach, the sectional method.








Here are some pics of the detail images by the canopy.


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  #128  
Old 03-25-2012, 10:51 AM
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Mike, you must roll the skins, just like they did when the prototype aircraft was manufactured. That photo of my Fury depicts a model designed using the standard truncated cone method. The seams are so tight only because they are buttressed by foam underneath. I could literally manhandle the seams, without buckling the paper, to get them near perfect.

I shaped the foam on the subframe to the aerodynamic shape it should be and rolled the paper to match the curvature of the subframe. You need a round object and a platen against which to roll the paper. For tight curves, you can use a ball bearing or one of those glass bearings found in a spray can. For the large curvature of the skins, get one of those hard rubber balls kids play with. For the platen, take a computer mouse and glue it to a solid base, perhaps plywood.

If, you'll send me the section you are working on, I'll put it all together, film it and post it on youtube so you can see exactly the process. No matter that the design is still being tweaked....it's a prototype and you're going where no designer has gone before! That sounds familiar...hmmm.
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  #129  
Old 03-25-2012, 11:59 AM
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mldixon mldixon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdavenport View Post
Mike, you must roll the skins, just like they did when the prototype aircraft was manufactured. That photo of my Fury depicts a model designed using the standard truncated cone method. The seams are so tight only because they are buttressed by foam underneath. I could literally manhandle the seams, without buckling the paper, to get them near perfect.

I shaped the foam on the subframe to the aerodynamic shape it should be and rolled the paper to match the curvature of the subframe. You need a round object and a platen against which to roll the paper. For tight curves, you can use a ball bearing or one of those glass bearings found in a spray can. For the large curvature of the skins, get one of those hard rubber balls kids play with. For the platen, take a computer mouse and glue it to a solid base, perhaps plywood.

If, you'll send me the section you are working on, I'll put it all together, film it and post it on youtube so you can see exactly the process. No matter that the design is still being tweaked....it's a prototype and you're going where no designer has gone before! That sounds familiar...hmmm.
I sent you a PM for an email address, but I guess you never got it.
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  #130  
Old 03-25-2012, 12:39 PM
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Top rear Gun Turret

Here are the first shots of the first generation attempt at the top gun turret
Sketchup model
Peparuka Unfold
Modeled Part

Needs more work, or a vacuum formed part.




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