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  #15501  
Old 09-13-2019, 01:48 PM
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It looks really good, and the color is not implausible, given weathering and variations in lighting.

This has reawakened my interest in the G4M Rikko. I am carefully rereading Sam Tagaya's wonderful book on the G4M and pondering the G4M article in the Mitsibishi volume of my Encyclopedia of Japanese Aircraft (Nihon kōkūki sōshū).

I'd like to try building this one, but one of my many major character flaws is a desire to start new paper model projects before finishing previous ones, so I had better have another go at the J6K1 that I started weeks ago and have so far failed to complete a satisfactory fuselage of.

Also, although retirement from teaching has theoretically freed up time, my Japanese classes, while very enjoyable, take up a lot of time, as do several translation projects dealing with Ki-27s and G4Ms, so not much paper modeling is taking place while I work on two tracks - refreshing my elementary Japanese through daily classes at Dickinson College, while also deciphering Japanese language technical aviation history writing and delving into the background of your models (and also researching/writing articles for Garry's USN/USMC Interwar thread models).

Your current emphasis on Pacific War Japanese aircraft has come at a miraculously perfect time for me, and, although I fully realize that most Forum members have other interests, and I also enjoy seeing the airliners and models of other eras and nations, I selfishly wish it would last for a long time - if not forever.

Don
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  #15502  
Old 09-13-2019, 04:38 PM
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Butelczynski Butelczynski is offline
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Originally Posted by Falco View Post
Your "pile" is amazing Bruno... makes me want to just dive in and explore!!!
I agree.It looks a lot like piles of scrapped planes after war.Lots of pictures of those around from both Europe and Asia.

Btw- G4M Isoroku Yamamoto died in-are colors and markings of it known or is it debated?


It would be good to have a pair of G4M and P-38G "Miss Virginia" and colors of second one are known well.
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  #15503  
Old 09-13-2019, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Butelczynski View Post
Btw- G4M Isoroku Yamamoto died in-are colors and markings of it known or is it debated?
I have to admit to initially having disinterest in this plane but like Don, now that Bruno has actually produced a model from his design effort, my interest is sparked!

Karol, one of the first things I investigated was the Yamamoto G4M. From what I can find out, the one carrying him was an earlier G4M1. And from what I can see, removal of the top turret, addition of the side and top blister windows plus different exhaust arrangements are the main obstacles but there are others.
There seems to be general agreement on the colours: one of the IJN Dk Greens on top with natural metal or silver paint undersides. Tail number was white 323 but there seems to be two camps on whether the top of the fin was painted white or not.
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  #15504  
Old 09-13-2019, 05:07 PM
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Karol -

The shoot-down of Admiral Yamamoto and Admiral Ugaki's aircraft (705 Ku, tail numbers 323 and 326, respectively) was very well documented by both sides, with surviving images of the wreckage of both aircraft. I Bblieve there is even gun camera footage.

I'm on the go just now with no time to search for, scan, and/or post images, but if any one wants to do a recolor, much reliable info is available.

Don

Added later: Since the tip of the vertical stabilizer was lost in the shoot down and is therefore not available for examination in the images of the crashed airplane, that is one area of uncertainly. Sam Tagaya and illustrator Mark Styling decided in favor of no white tip and, following generally accepted views, no chutai stripes.

Added even later: Tail numbers 323 and 326 were early-production G4M1 Model 11s with some field modifications, so there are a number of differences from Bruno's G4M2.
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  #15505  
Old 09-13-2019, 05:40 PM
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Thank you both.That's exactly the info I needed.That's more than enough for me to use.
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  #15506  
Old 09-13-2019, 08:42 PM
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Visible changes among G4M versions

Karol –

Garry hit the main visual differences. Here are all the externally visible differences among the main production variants of the G4M.

Early Model 11: Smooth nacelles with exhaust stacks at the top of the nacelles (Kasei Model 11 engines), dorsal blister immediately behind the crew compartment, waist gun bulged sponsons, squared off angled wing tips and vertical stabilizer, tail cone with narrow slit.

March 1942: Kasei Model 15 engines. No visible external differences.

March 1943: 30mm thick rubber sheet laminated to lower wing surface as a self-sealing measure, addition of prop spinners, visible engine exhausts, and truncated tail cone. This was the Mid-Production Model 11. Some aircraft had flame dampeners added to the exhaust stacks at the top of the engine cowlings.

August-September 1943: Longer exhaust stacks, V-shaped tail cone. This was the Late-Production Model 11.

G4M2 Model 22: Newly-shaped nacelles with individual exhaust stacks (Kasei Model 21 engines), four-bladed propellers, redesigned wings with thicker airfoil and laminar flow that retained the rubber laminated layer on the underside, larger horizontal tail, rounded wingtips and tip of vertical stabilizer (this was a cosmetic change to make it easier for ground crews to recognize the difference between the Model 11 and the Model 22), power rotated nose cone, additional nose glazing, two additional 7.7mm guns one on either side of the nose, waist gun sponsons replaced by flat windows. An optically flat panel was installed, changing the shape of the nose. Some were fitted with bomb bay doors, but these were later removed.

During production, other changes were made, including redesigned waist windows and armament variations.

G4M2A Model 24: Kasei Model 25 engines – engine cowlings with a separate carburetor intake at the top front of the nacelle, bulged bomb bay doors now standard. Otherwise visually indistinguishable from the Model 22.

Model 24 Tei had the bomb bay doors removed and were fitted to carry Ohka suicide rocket glide bombs.

G4M3: Internal wing redesign, but the only external differences were small wing root filets, no rubber pads on the under surfaces, 20mm (vice 7.7mm) waists guns, and a completely redesigned tail turret similar to that of the B-17E or B-26 and dihedral on the horizontal stabilizers.

G6M1-L transport aircraft looked pretty much like Model 11s with no slit in the tail cone, no underwing rubber, and fairings over the bomb bays.

I'm also reposting the Mark Styling drawings from Sam Tagaya's book, Mitsubishi Type 1 Rikko ‘Betty’ Units of World War 2, Oxford UK: Osprey Publishing, 2001.

Sam Tagaya and Mark Styling concluded from the photographic images of the wreck that 323 (built in March 1943) had the spinners and truncated tail cone, but no rubber under the wings and no exhaust flame dampeners.

I’ll be glad to have anyone with greater knowledge fine-tune this. I haven’t tried to capture all the internal changes or field modifications, just the things that would be visible on a 1/100 model.

Don
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  #15507  
Old 09-14-2019, 03:29 AM
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Now there is this struggle going on in my head: designing the different versions or not
All for a model that could not inspire me to start with.
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  #15508  
Old 09-14-2019, 04:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Boose View Post
I'd like to try building this one, but one of my many major character flaws is a desire to start new paper model projects before finishing previous ones, so I had better have another go at the J6K1 that I started weeks ago and have so far failed to complete a satisfactory fuselage of.
I know the feeling. To be honest, lately many of my test builds lack props, or wheels.

I could of course NOT send you new models you order, to force you to end the ones you are currently building, but that would not be nice.

It does not surprise me that with retirement, spare time becomes a rarity. All people I know that went on retirement started doing things they wanted to do for ages and ended up being much busier than before. I really wish I could do that as well. (I'm whining again)
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  #15509  
Old 09-14-2019, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by scissorsandplanes View Post
Now there is this struggle going on in my head: designing the different versions or not
All for a model that could not inspire me to start with.
It's funny how you think you're not really interested in a particular subject then you see some little thing and all of a sudden....you are! Maybe start on something else and if you keep glancing back at and thinking about the G4M then perhaps Betty should be the focus of your attention after all.
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  #15510  
Old 09-14-2019, 09:12 AM
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I enjoyed reading your comments, Bruno and Garry.

I failed to mention that the G4M2 Model 22 also introduced the powered 20mm gun turret in place of the blister behind the crew compartment (Garry has already pointed this out) and that it entered production in July 1943. The G4M2A Model 24 went into production later that year and G4M2s and G4M2As had replaced the G4M1s in combat service by October 1944. Production of the G4M3 Model 34 began in October 1944.

If you are considering variations, Bruno, it is worth mentioning that the first G4M1s were manufactured as "Wingtip Convoy Fighters" intended to escort (by flying at the edges of formations, hence "wingtip") G3M and G4M formations on long-range missions over China. The bomb bay was faired over and a blister with two 20mm guns was installed, while a third 20mm could be fired from either waist blister. Image 1 shows one of these aircraft in the colors it wore while being transferred from the Yokosuka Ku (were it was tested) to the Takao Ku in Taiwan in December 1940. The introduction of the Zero Fighter made the concept unnecessary, and it probably wouldn't have worked. The aircraft had the blisters removed and were used as trainers (G4M1-K) or converted to transports (G4M1-L). If you design a G4M1, then a wingtip escort fighter should not be too difficult.

G4M1s had no Bombay doors (a fairing covered the belly when the aircraft was used on reconnaissance duties). I'm not sure if this would be difficult to model. The empty open interior would not be so obvious in 1/100, I think.

Image 2 is of an G4M1 aircraft from the Kanoya Ku (the outfit that sank Repulse and Prince of Wales) as it appeared when operating from Davao in the southern Philippines during the 1941-42 Philippine Campaign.

Image 3 is the G4M1 aircraft in which Admiral Yamamoto met his death.

All are from the Tagaya book.

Don
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One model per (non-working) day-mitsubishi_g4m1_ko-g6-6_sn706_takaoku_yokosuka-takao_1940_tagaya_p49.jpg   One model per (non-working) day-mitsubishi_g4m1_k-384_kanoyaku_davao_jan42_tagaya_p49.jpg   One model per (non-working) day-mitsubishi_g4m1_323_sn2656_705ku_rabaul_430418_yamamoto_tagaya_p51.jpg  
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