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  #11  
Old 11-11-2017, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trapper50cal View Post
bumping this old thread to add some info...

My Grandmother's name was Florence.
My Grandfather was James Milton Fogle

The picture of "Fickle Flossy III" is actually my Grandfather, from what I can tell.
That pilot on the wing is DEFINITELY my Grandpa.

Family photo that my mom has...

Happy Veterans Day to all who have served or are serving!
I would be very interested to see a photo of your Grandad if you have one.
You can email me directly if you like.
It would be much appreciated.

If you can verify that this is indeed Fogle on the wing, it might also identify the pilot in another photo of Flossy.

You see the problem is, this other photo was published with the caption stating the Pilot was Fogle.
It looks like the photo was pulled from a book or publication.
But pilot Bill Johnson claimed to a reporter in a 2014 interview that he was the one in the picture.
Johnson even changed the caption, crossing out Fogle's name and writing in his own name.

Plus, I have a photo of another completely different Pilot posing with this plane.
Pilots often posed in front of aircraft that weren't theirs.
And this is the big problem.
Unless you see records indicating a specific pilot tied to a specific aircraft,
you can't always trust a photo like this.

The fact that this guy is standing on the wing leads me to assume that he might well be the pilot.
Another random pilot just posing for a photo, might not climb onto a plane that wasn't his.

And I was recently contacted by another fellow, whose Grandfather might also claim to be the pilot of Fickle Flossy III.
I have verified beyond a doubt that this Pilot was indeed part of 391st FS(366thFG)

But Fogle's name does not appear on 391st Operations Board.
Do you happen to know the dates of his service with the 391st?
Did he fly missions on D-Day?
Bill Johnson also claimed that he flew Fickle Flossy on D-Day missions,
although invasion stripes aren't visible in any of the photos.
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  #12  
Old 11-11-2017, 03:52 PM
Trapper50cal Trapper50cal is offline
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Wow!!! :0

What an interesting situation.

I'm sure I can get my mother to send me some pictures...
I don't have any on hand, myself.

Do you mean a more contemporary photo to compare to
the image posted?

I just assumed it was his due to my grandmother being named "Flo".
I also assumed that my mom had the hardcopy, actual photo that she
sent me a scan of...

As per his bio on the Arlington National Cemetery and Air Force websites:

"...He was assigned to the 325th Fighter Squadron, Richmond Army Air Base, Va., and in September 1943 went to Bluenthal Field, Del., as pilot with the 391st Fighter Squadron, 366th Fighter Group. He departed with the group for duty in England and France in December 1943, and completed 110 combat missions as a P-47 pilot. He returned to the United States in December 1944 and went to Las Vegas Army Air Field, Nev.; Dale Mabry Field, Fla.; and Hunter Field, Ga.; where he served as a pilot, flight instructor and flight commander. He completed transition training to P-80 jet aircraft in August 1946 at Williams Field, Ariz., after which he was assigned to the first all-jet tactical fighter wing in the Air Force - the 27th Fighter Squadron, at March Field, Calif., where he was assigned to various positions."

So it looks like Sept '43 to Dec. '44
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  #13  
Old 11-11-2017, 03:58 PM
Trapper50cal Trapper50cal is offline
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Could it be that he was folded into the 391st from the 325th and not redesignated?

Forgive me if that's an ignorant question, I'm not familiar with the USAF structure
or practices.

Haven't heard back from mom yet...

Here's one from the same time period


Last edited by Trapper50cal; 11-11-2017 at 04:18 PM.
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  #14  
Old 11-11-2017, 04:40 PM
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airdave airdave is offline
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Thanks so much for more info.
I am totally embroiled in this story, have been for a couple of weeks.

Starting to look like 93yr old Bill Johnson may have made a small mistake.
He showed a photo of a Pilot in front of Fickle Flossy to a North Carolina journalist.
(see the original article that Ashevilleangler posted for more info)

I've spoken to that journalist.
Johnson claimed that he was the man in the photo.
But he also claimed (according to the journalist) that he piloted Flossy III.

You can see a caption below the photo, as if the pic was pulled from a history book.
It clearly states the pilot of Flossy is John Fogle.
However Fogle's name is crossed over, and Bill Johnson is handwritten.

That photo is attached below...does this look like your Grandad?
He doesn't have your Grandads chin.
And the man standing on the wing of Flossy (in your photo above) does have that same chin.

I'm inclined to believe the man on the wing is your Grandad, and is the pilot of Fickle Flossy III.

I am inclined to believe the man in the other photo is Bill Johnson, and he is just posing in front of Flossy.
So he was correct to say it was him in the photo, but incorrect to claim Fickle as his aircraft.


I have another photo (attached below aswell) that shows a third pilot posing in front of Flossy.
This guy is definitely shorter and wears his clothes a bit differently.
He doesn't look like either of the other men (to me).

I've seen it before, various Pilots and Crew posing in front of various planes.
You can't always assume its their aircraft.
But as I said before, if you catch the Pilot on the wing...
Attached Thumbnails
P-47D "Fickle Flossie"-bill-johnson-d-day.jpg   P-47D "Fickle Flossie"-2-pilots-fickle-flossie.jpg  
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  #15  
Old 11-11-2017, 04:47 PM
Trapper50cal Trapper50cal is offline
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So, so serendipitous and random for me to stumble onto this on Veterans Day after
my mom sending that picture to my wife today....

and to me it looks like it says J. Fogle - as in James Fogle
But that guy looks nothing like my Grandfather, nor does the other guy.

The man on the wing is much taller, which dovetails with family stories that
Grandpa was actually, technically too tall to be a fighter pilot and that he bent
at the knees when he was measured so he would be under the height limit.

Seems like that photo with the revision may have been improperly attributed to Fogle hence the revision.
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Old 11-11-2017, 05:17 PM
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Just to clarify, I have been attempting to verify information about a pilot named Roger Drabyk Sr.
he was thought to have been the pilot of Fickle Flossy III,
but that seems not to be the case.

His family had what they thought was a photo of him and Flossy
but it appears to be the same photo that I think is Bill Johnson and aircraft.

We know for a fact that Drabyk flew missions in P47s with the 391st FS (366th, 9th AF)
and I've seen training and service records.
I'd love to verify exactly what aircraft he flew, for some artwork, but that may be impossible.

if anyone has any info on this, I would appreciate hearing it.
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Old 11-11-2017, 05:17 PM
Trapper50cal Trapper50cal is offline
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Here he is on the left, getting "bunny ears" from behind
while standing next to my father in the middle.



and visiting a friend in MD before reporting to Hickam AFB in Hawaii
middle picture on the far right...



Mom swears up and down that James Fogle claimed that was his bird. And that's him standing on the wing...
He did have a cleft chin, just not as noticeable in his 44 portrait.
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  #18  
Old 11-11-2017, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trapper50cal View Post
So, so serendipitous and random for me to stumble onto this on Veterans Day after
my mom sending that picture to my wife today....

and to me it looks like it says J. Fogle - as in James Fogle
But that guy looks nothing like my Grandfather, nor does the other guy.

The man on the wing is much taller, which dovetails with family stories that
Grandpa was actually, technically too tall to be a fighter pilot and that he bent
at the knees when he was measured so he would be under the height limit.

Seems like that photo with the revision may have been improperly attributed to Fogle hence the revision.

I think that photo was published in a book or something
and it was assumed to be Fogle, since the plane was Fogles.

Bill Johnson probably recognized himself and corrected it.

I'm guessing he may have indicated flying the same type of aircraft on D-Day missions...but did he actually claim it as his own plane?
Unlikely since he would recognize the noseart clearly.

I think you are safe to assume the photo of the pilot on the wing of Flossy
is indeed your Grandfather and he had the honor of flying a great aircraft with great noseart!

I am still stuck trying to determine what P-47 Roger Drabyk flew.
But as I said to his Grandson...these men are all heroes and deserved to be remembered regardless of the details!
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  #19  
Old 11-11-2017, 05:35 PM
Trapper50cal Trapper50cal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airdave View Post

I think you are safe to assume the photo of the pilot on the wing of Flossy
is indeed your Grandfather and he had the honor of flying a great aircraft with great noseart!

I am still stuck trying to determine what P-47 Roger Drabyk flew.
But as I said to his Grandson...these men are all heroes and deserved to be remembered regardless of the details!
Agree on all counts! And the nose art of the other Jugs from the 366th are great too...as was mentioned, must have had a sign guy in the unit
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  #20  
Old 11-11-2017, 06:29 PM
Trapper50cal Trapper50cal is offline
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An amusing anecdote that my mom just shared regarding this plane...

So Grandpa Fogle's soon to be wife, Florence, was just his sweetheart
when the picture was taken (He proposed upon his return on Christmas
Eve, 1944) Flo's Dad sent my Grandpa "Simoniz" wax so that he and
his crew chief could wax Fickle Flossy to a mirror shine that would
reflect light better and "blind the enemy while in combat". He sent photos
of the wax job back to his soon-to-be father-in-law.

She's digging around for them and I'll post up when/if I get them.
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