Early Airman

**ringmaster** · #1 04-09-2009, 03:52 PM

Picture found at a garage sale Saturday.

**THE DC** · #2 04-09-2009, 04:29 PM

That's a big paper kit he's standing next to!

Cheers!

The DC

**bob martin** · #3 04-09-2009, 07:00 PM

Most all my flying has been experimental built aircraft, Auto Gyros, Hang Gliders, Home Builts. So I have a real affinity with these early flyers. Flying by the seat of your pants! Hanging out there with the wind in your face! Oh yeah, My kinda flying.:D

**Kugelfang** · #4 04-10-2009, 03:59 AM

I believe that is Wilbur Wright in France, 1908. Just a guess, though.

--jeff

**Sakrison** · #5 04-12-2009, 10:39 PM

That is definietely a Wright Flyer--possibly the 1908 model, and that certainly looks like Wilbur Wright's profile. See the attached pix. The photo might have been taken in France. That was the year they demonstrated the Flyer to the world.

What a find!
--David

**cdavenport** · #6 04-14-2009, 04:12 PM

It's actually Benjamin Foulois, America's first "licensed" pilot, trained by the Wrights. Foulois went on to become a general and an advocate for aviation.

**Sakrison** · #7 04-14-2009, 11:17 PM

Mystery solved.
Thank you, Charles.

**Leif Ohlsson** · #8 04-15-2009, 01:04 AM

Charles, that is really interesting information. I searched the web for photos of Wilbur in France, and sure enough I found several featuring a cap, and a leather coat. But not THAT cap (chequered) and not THAT leather jacket (collar lined with fabric). And the profile was just a bit too sharp to fit Wilbur. But, to be honest, I would have agreed with Wilbur and Europe 1908-09 if pressed.

So this is indeed interesting. Thank you!

Leif

PS. Searching for Benjamin Foulois instead I got these photos. Now I'm confused again... c.f. the garage sale photo one more time (last)

Foulois sources:
Maj Gen Benjamin D. Foulois
pro.corbis.com

**ringmaster** · #9 04-15-2009, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sakrison

That is definietely a Wright Flyer--possibly the 1908 model, and that certainly looks like Wilbur Wright's profile. See the attached pix. The photo might have been taken in France. That was the year they demonstrated the Flyer to the world.

What a find!
--David

That looks like the same Write model A. Photos taken in France seem to show a smaller vertical fuel tank and a very simple elevator control.

**Leif Ohlsson** · #10 04-15-2009, 01:34 PM

I'll try to summarize what can be said about what exact aircraft this is, and leave the person out of the picture, at least to begin with.

Cutting to the chase, I believe this is the so called Military Flyer, a modified Model A.

Reasons:

1. The aircraft has the "Orville system" of control, in contrast to the "Wilbur system". Evidence for this is the prominent control stick in the garage-sale photo. This is in fact the middle stick for wing-warping (backwards-forwards), with a small handle on top (blurred) which when wiggled controlled the rudder. The pilot's elevator control is further way in the photo and blurred, and the student/passenger's elevator control is in the left hand of the person in the photo.

2. The height of the lower wing suggests the higher Military Flyer version, in contrast to one of the five Dayton-built Flyer A shipped to Europe.

Evidence:

Image 1: Descriptive drawing of the Wilbur-Orville systems (Orville's on top). Read about it in Wikipedia.

Image 2: The Military Flyer as preserved in a museum today. Note the height of the lower wing. The details of the middle control stick unfortunately are hidden, but it has the Orville system, as witnessed by the lever on top of the stick. Therefore it ought to have a similar disk as in the garage-sale photo.

Image 3-5: Wilbur Wright in France 1909. The first photo is particularly instructive as regards lower wing height and similar posture of Wilbur as the person in the garage-sale photo (where the wing seems to be definitely higher from the ground). This difference is clearly seen also in the other photos (with Wright sister Kate). Note also the Wilbur system of controls, in distinction to the Orville system in the garage-sale photo.

I think these features point to the photo being of the Military Flyer. As to the flyer himself, I have very great difficulties departing from Wilbur. The posture, the coat, and the way of carrying the cap - and of course the profile - all seem to point towards Wilbur.

As to when and how, with the Military Flyer and all, I couldn't say.

Leif

PS. I added the garage-sale photo again, for ease of comparison. This time with a tentative title...