F7U-3M vs F-4D - Cutlass vs Skyray

[MacSongLi]

They are both magnificent models Yair. Very nice work. I have to say that I think the Cutlass was a more radical design (very unique).

Great Job!
Gary

[hyair]

Hi Gary - thanks for your reply. Yes the Cutlass was the more radical design of the two and it's era !
If the Cutlass had a good engine instead of the low thrust J46 it could have been
a terrific fighter !
The two have almost the same roots as they were both developed from German studies -
So they are quite comparable in role , type and service era.

Yair

[Isaac]

Great comparisons and technical information.



Keep up the info.

Isaac

[CharlieC]

The two aircraft were built to fulfil quite different specifications - the F4D was a fast climbing interceptor which could reach a target up to 50,000ft with 5 minutes warning. The lightly loaded delta wing was probably about the only way to do this without using rocket engines. The F7U seems to have been a generic fighter something like a Corsair replacement - reasonable performance with attack capability. Unfortunately the lack of engine thrust seems to have put the F7U on the edge of falling out of the sky a lot of the time.

Regards,

Charlie

[hyair]

Thanks for your detailed reply. You are right that the two were built to fulfill different missions. The two are very close in service, role and as interceptors. Both had missiles , the Skyray had two
Sidewinders of early type and the Cutlass four Sparrow missiles of first generation. Both had 4 x20 mm guns. In Wikipedia they appeared as similar planes.
These fighters were never had a chance to shoot in anger because in the late 50's there was no major world conflict . In the navy series of Ginter the cutlass is described as the most radical
design to enter service with the navy - but I will discuss it more deeply in the upcoming chapters.

Yair

[hyair]

To be precise although both prototypes flew in 1951 it took the Skyray two more years to get into service . While the Cutlass was undergoing project cutlass in mid 1954 and the first squadron VF-124 recieved the type the Skyray went to service only two full years later in 1956.The main reason for the delay was the adoption of the J57 which required changes
in the frame and the APQ radar which was not ready with the initial production batch.
Now the Cutlass was the first to enter service with the F7U-3 which of 180 were produced.
The 3M version came available only from mid 1955. The Cutlass throughout it's service proved an ill child. The envine that was choosed for it - the J46 was expected to develop 10000 lb in AB. But the poor reliability forced the designers to derate it to 6000lb in AB.
So instead of combind 20000lb only 12000lb were supplied.
This was the biggest blow in the program. Also the high angle that the plane was having of 20 degrees and cockpit at hight of 4 meters made service difficult.
Despite all this some 13 Cutlass squadrons were operational with the navy.

The Skyray story is different. Because of the delay in getting it to service it arrived very late
to service along with the F8U which was in many ways a much better aircraft.
The main feature of the Skyray was it's ability to climb fast at an amazing 70 degrees !
In 1958 it broke no less then 5 climb world record up to 50000 feet.
However the type had also many problems such as the delicate wing outer panels which were delicate for a touch and low fuel capacity which forced it to be always with two 600 galon
tanks under the wings. It is clear that these tanks while carried limited the usable performance of the Skyray.
The production went untilc1958 and some 420 were produced.
Will continue.

Yair

[hyair]

Both types served the navy and in the Skyray case also the marine corps.
The Cutlass was serving with no less than 13 squadrons . A batch of 100 Dash M was about
to enter service from mid 1955. The production was ended ib December 1955. During the 3
years of service no less than 75 crashed which reprsents 25 percents of the fleet. Names like
ensign killer came instantly. The Cutlass had many problems while in service- not enough thrust for one engine landing , front gear colapsed during hard landings , tendency to get into
a post stall gyration , limited range , poor engine reliability and short life between overhauls.
There is a short video in youtube that shows the f7U-3M firing a sparrow missile against a B-17 drone guided by radio control.
VA -83 was the first squadron to have deployment with F7U-3M with the 6th fleet in the Mediterranean sea in 1956. This was a world first deployment to a missiles carrying fighter.
Despite these problems the cutlass was an excellent aeobatic plane and could sit on the tail of many contemporary fighters in simulated dogfighths. Also when everything was working good the flight was very smooth. Some squadrons found it a very stable platform in the ground attack role. The Cutlass had a unique under belly pod for carrying rockets.
The cutlass participated in many air shows as the low level performance with two AB glueing at 100 feet above the ground in more than 600 kts were very impressive !

The Skyray story is much simple to digest than the cutlass.
The first planes were waiting to radar sets that were not ready in time. At peak the navy flew
13 squadrons and the marines 7. The skyray had a tremendous go in the vertical and was the only navy fighter to join the NORAD. There were many problems with the skyray as well - handling was strage and took time to adjust for new pilots. The radar had childhood problems
and limited flying range without external fuel tanks. The loose rate was high if not as high as the cutlass. As in the cutlass case some pilots liked it's strange flight characteristics and some not.
The actuall service with the navy lasted also 3 years from 1957 till 1960. The f-4 phantom entered service in 1961 and the F8U-2 which enter service in 1959 made the skyray obsolete
and it was widrawn from first line service.
Also the Grumman Tiger had the same fate of serving only two years with the navy between 1957 to 1959. However it was until 1969 the aerobatic plane of the blue angels.
The next chapter will describe end of service of both types and later chapters will
discuss about relating issues and stories from all kind of aspects regarding the two.

Yair

[hyair]

Here are photos of the two plus a guest from the same era -
The Grumman F-11F Tiger !

Yair

[hyair]

The navy realised that the Cutlass due to the many innovations and complexity will need a special guiding hand in order to put the type correctly into service.
Therfore project cutlass imerged in July 1954 . The project took place on a carrier near
the shure of San Diego. The intention was to train both the pilots and ground crews on the
Cutlass in order to achieve smooth transition into the navy. The Cutlass had a special bridale
that was used per each catapulting and because of the amount of takesoff"s the Cutlass had a special Colleting device for the bridals. Project cutlass went smoothly and the first squadron to recieve the Cutlass was VF-124. The real service was far from smooth
as many as 75 Cutlases where crashed while in service and 21 navy pilots and
4 test pilots died , 3 of them with the dash one.

Yair

[hyair]

The F-5D was Douglas ptoposal for an improved F-4D Skyray. The wing was thinner for less drag , fuel capacity was doubled and systems were transistorised from vacuum
tube bulbs. The Skylancer had almost 1.5mach top speed
and 25000 feet initial rate climb - much much better from
the original f-4D Skyray.

Yair