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  #101  
Old 09-17-2018, 03:33 PM
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Thank you for the kind words Don, Butelczynski, Mike. ebf2k I think am on the right track haven't made the part yet, will take a pic when I make it "for real" ..
Today spent some time drawing the top wing, sure like those colorful wings!
May have to get some printer ink to check how it prints out, this plane has a yellow chevron on top rather than red but still plenty colorful.
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  #102  
Old 09-17-2018, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CMDRTED View Post
glen, watching this with interest. odd that on some of the international forums they have built this and show decent results. of course I never translated any of the commentary so any difficulties they had weren't apparent to me. carl Beetz (golderbear) built this years ago and he related frustration at every level. Carl is a great builder and designer so he wasn't a rookie at that time. I like this aircraft also, it featured many times on the tv show black sheep squadron.
Ted just an interesting aside, more information about the aircraft I’m modeling in addition to being on Ford Island Dec7 1941 it also went west with the Allied island hopping campaign assigned to marine fighter units so may actually have been in service with Boyington’s outfit... not sure what they were using the aircraft for, “utility “ and one would think search and rescue.
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  #103  
Old 09-19-2018, 08:44 AM
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Glen -

I don't have a definitive answer, but I have a Marine Air order of battle for 31 August 1943 (the month that Boyington took command of VMF-214 in the Russell Islands).

At that time, VMF-214 was part of Marine Air Group Twenty-One, which had one J2F-5 and one J2F-2 assigned. No J2F-4, although one or more could have been assigned later in the war.

I could find only one J2F-4 assigned to the Marines on 31 August 1943, and it was assigned to the Base Air Detachment, Marine Corps Air Station, Quantico, Virginia.

However, in the 1943 section of his book on USMC aircraft, Larkins has an image of a J2F-4 with a caption stating that "Eight versions of the 'Duck' were flown by the Marines. Its most valuable wartime use was rescuing downed pilots during combat."

I am sure that you are correct that the Ducks assigned to the Marine units also were used for utility duties: transport of personnel, mail, and small cargo; liaison; and to maintain flight time.

Source:
William T. Larkins, "Status of Marine Corps Aircraft, 1 August 1943," U.S. Marine Corps Aircraft 1914-1959, Concord, CA: Aviation History Publications, 1959, pp. 105-108, 111.

Don
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  #104  
Old 09-21-2018, 09:57 PM
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Very interesting and I didn't know that such detail is available for study. My resource was less formal, the original owner of the airplane, who raised the plane from a freshwater lake, in an interview on YouTube. (Eric Johnson interviewer) He reported the general area the plane served after Pearl early in the war. He started the restoration but sold to Wichita Air services who did the more thorough work.
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  #105  
Old 09-22-2018, 12:52 PM
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Adding some yellow wings! Drawn up now and tested but had to adjust some things, this is what they look like now, waiting for some structure parts. Basically this wing originated with the Modelik F3F wing, redrawn and recolored.
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  #106  
Old 09-22-2018, 02:08 PM
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Check and see if the red dots are the correct size, they are usually smaller. They fit the pentagram in the middle of the star and don't touch the inside points.

Mike
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  #107  
Old 09-22-2018, 02:45 PM
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Correct, Mike. Here's the Naval History and Heritage Command website with a correct image of the insignia: https://www.history.navy.mil/researc...-markings.html (scroll down to the "Aug 1919 - May 1942" entry.

The design of the star was clarified in Navy Department General Order No. 523 of 25 March 1923: "The construction is obtained by marking off five equidistant points on the circumference of the circumscribed circle and connecting each point to the two opposite points. The outer parts of the lines thus obtained form the points of the star and the red inner circle is made tangent to the sides of the pentagon formed by this construction. (Quoted in John M. Elliott, The Official Monogram US Navy & Marine Corps Aircraft Color Guide, Vol. 1, 1911-1939, Boylston, MA: Monogram Aviation Publications, 1987, p. 52.

As Mike points out, when constructed according to these instructions, the circumference of the red central disk will not touch the blue part of the insignia. The circle was to be five feet in diameter unless the chord of the wing was less than five feet, in which case the diameter was to be approximately the same as the wing chord. However, by the time Glen's Duck was flying, there had been a number of changes to the specified size of the insignia, so, in the absence of a contemporary photograph of BuNo 1649, the best bet is to go with the insignia as it appears on the airplane today (in my opinion).

Having already provided too much information, I can't help but mention that in Korea during Christmas of 1971, my family constructed a cardboard-and-aluminum foil star for the tree using this method (no red inner disk). Every year since, that star goes atop the tree - most recently having been put in place by our 18 and 23-year old grandsons, whose then-seven-year-old father helped make that star in 1971.

Don
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Last edited by Don Boose; 09-22-2018 at 03:07 PM.
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  #108  
Old 09-22-2018, 03:41 PM
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I see that now I will probably redo the star, although not sure if the whole wings, especially as the lower wing stars have the same flaw....perhaps can put a little "decal" that corrects this, will think on that. Should've would've could've..ha
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  #109  
Old 09-22-2018, 04:56 PM
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I think it should depend on if you can alter the stars without damaging the wings and how much effort you wish to expend.

It is a rather small, and not easily observed variance. I think if you left it like it was, almost everyone would either fail to notice it, or think it trivial on such a beautiful model. And if a malicious rivet counter (as opposed to the benign kind, like me) were to call you on it. You could either just smile wryly and shake your head at human nature or say that when the repainting was done in late 1941, this is the way the stars were applied on this aircraft . . . and I'll bet you could find photographic evidence that it happened, if not on this airplane, then on some other airplane!

Look through photographs of U.S. Navy aircraft in the 1941-early 1942 period, and you find a bewildering array of variations as units tried to comply with changing regs in the heat of imminent and actual war.

Don
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  #110  
Old 09-22-2018, 05:38 PM
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Ha thanks Don, not a huge worry either way, will not hold up much progress to repeat the top wing, just will see how much it may pester myself later....maybe not that much. No worries Thanks gents for your input on this though.
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