PaperModelers.com

Go Back   PaperModelers.com > > >

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 01-10-2020, 06:50 AM
hyair hyair is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Rehovot - Israel
Posts: 1,369
Total Downloaded: 50.80 MB
F-4B Phantom vs F7u-3M Cutlass

The Phantom entered service in 1960 -1961 while the Cutlass in 1954 -1955 .
The Cutlass twin tail is looking even more advanced than the Phantom but the j46 Cutlass engines can't compare with J79 of the Phantom in terms of power 2.7 ton vs 7.2 ton thrust . The Cutlass was underpowered with a weight of 14 ton and
thrust of 5.4 with AB !
The Phantom has 14.4 and weight was 25 tons. Phantom was mach 2.4 Fighter while the Cutlass was high subsonic at mach 0.94 .The Cutlass could lift 2.5 ton while the Phantom 7.5 ton. The Phantom like the Cutlass had aome relability issues with certain systems. The Cutlass was phased out of service in 1957 while the Phantom in 1996. While the Phantom carried 4 Sparrow missiles III the Cutlass was the first to be equiped with type I in 1956 .
It is clear that the Phantom was much more sucessful but had the Cutlass was equiped with better engines with good thrust it could be a match to the 100 series !!!
The F-4B is some 4.5 meter longer and slightly smaller span. The long front gear of the Cutlass made servicing tricky.
Both models are in scale of 1:48.

Yair
Attached Thumbnails
F-4B Phantom  1:48-20200110_113358.jpg   F-4B Phantom  1:48-20200110_113422.jpg   F-4B Phantom  1:48-20200110_113607.jpg   F-4B Phantom  1:48-20200110_113442.jpg   F-4B Phantom  1:48-20200110_113507.jpg  

F-4B Phantom  1:48-20200110_113533.jpg  
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 01-14-2020, 04:20 PM
hyair hyair is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Rehovot - Israel
Posts: 1,369
Total Downloaded: 50.80 MB
F-4 Phantom vs Mig -17 Vietnam War

During the Vietnam war the Phantom was used together with the F-105 the main two types that were used the most over NV. While the F-105 was used as the main bomber the F-4 Phantom was used to escort the F-105 and to fly as cap in case mig's are in the vicinity. An insident that two F-105 were shootdown by hit and run tactic by mig -17s raised the question how a subsonic plane as the Mig-17 can shootdown a mach 2.0 much sofisticated
plane was showing a big lack of knowlege.
Any plane that carry heavy load of bombs
can't go supersonic on the deck regardless of type. The Mig -17 was the main fighter of the war and was used widly.
The F-4 pilots soon learned that that the Mig was a very capable fighter and in speed lower than 400k could turn nuch tighter than any other figther. The hit and run tactic was utilized heavily by Mig pilots and some the NV ace pilots prefered it over the mig-21. The Phantom crew's learn to use the vertical dimention and higher speed of the Phantom and to avoid tight maneuvers with the mig-17 !!!

Yair
Attached Thumbnails
F-4B Phantom  1:48-20200114_204607.jpg   F-4B Phantom  1:48-20200114_204706.jpg   F-4B Phantom  1:48-20200114_204647.jpg   F-4B Phantom  1:48-20200114_204628.jpg   F-4B Phantom  1:48-20200114_204553.jpg  

Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 01-14-2020, 05:20 PM
Vinalssergio155's Avatar
Vinalssergio155 Vinalssergio155 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Ezeiza.Argentina
Posts: 2,373
Total Downloaded: 219.49 MB
Although technologically inferior, 17 infused respect. I once read that it was believed that close range and low speed combat had remained in history. Mig-17 and the tactics used in Vietnam did rethink this vision.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 01-14-2020, 05:21 PM
FRD's Avatar
FRD FRD is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Jacksonville Florida
Posts: 731
Total Downloaded: 0
Very informative...
__________________
Marji's models
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 01-15-2020, 04:47 PM
hyair hyair is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Rehovot - Israel
Posts: 1,369
Total Downloaded: 50.80 MB
Sergio and FRD thanks - In 1968 two Syrian mig 17s made a navigation error and landed in North of Israel. One was cleared for flight and the test pilot was amazed by the tight turning rate at low speeds below 400 knots.
The mirage pilots were briefed not to perform tight turns with the mig but to relay instead on the vertical dimention and better speed when fighting against it.
The results didn't took long to arrive and many mig 17 were shootdown later.

Yair
Reply With Quote
Login to remove ads
  #36  
Old 01-16-2020, 12:06 AM
hyair hyair is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Rehovot - Israel
Posts: 1,369
Total Downloaded: 50.80 MB
F-4B Phantom vs F-8 Crusader

The US NAVY operated the two types which were arguably the best in it's inventory at the time Vietnam war started circa 1965.
The Phantom was better armed with sidewinder and spparow 4 each while the Crusader 4 sidewinder max and 4 x 20 mm
guns that jams a lot during tight turns.
So the Crusader was a clear winner with 1:6 kill ratio against 1:2 of the Phantom.
Names like Mig Master and Mig Slayer came to the air !!!
It is also important to note that for the Crusader only the best pilots were choosen !!!

Yair
Attached Thumbnails
F-4B Phantom  1:48-20200116_001701.jpg   F-4B Phantom  1:48-20200116_001726.jpg   F-4B Phantom  1:48-20200116_001739.jpg   F-4B Phantom  1:48-20200116_001757.jpg   F-4B Phantom  1:48-20200116_001826.jpg  

F-4B Phantom  1:48-20200116_001845.jpg   F-4B Phantom  1:48-20200116_001714.jpg  
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 01-19-2020, 01:22 PM
hyair hyair is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Rehovot - Israel
Posts: 1,369
Total Downloaded: 50.80 MB
F-4 Phantom vs A-7E Corsair II - Who is a better strike fighter

This is one of the topics that realy raised to often - Is a supersonic fighter have an advantage over a subsonic one in the low level strike mission. The answer is big no !!!
If we check the attrition rate of the Phantom against the Corsair II we will find that the rate last had a lower attrition rate as only 54 were shootdown while 600 Phantoms were shootdown with almost the same number of strike missions.
The reason is simple - The A-7E had a better avionics systems that alowed the A-7E to hit the target in one pass which reduced the chance of hitting from AA fire and this contributed to much lower attrition rate. Also in low level attack the speed of both is around 550 knots against 520 knots
which is almost the same and the A-7 was a smaller target for the NV gunners than the F-4 phantom without the black smoke of the Phantom that eases it's detection - issue that was solved only in 1973 after Vietnam war !!!

Yair
Attached Thumbnails
F-4B Phantom  1:48-20200119_204737.jpg   F-4B Phantom  1:48-20200119_204722.jpg   F-4B Phantom  1:48-20200119_204710.jpg   F-4B Phantom  1:48-20200119_204655.jpg   F-4B Phantom  1:48-20200119_204631.jpg  

F-4B Phantom  1:48-20200119_204616.jpg   F-4B Phantom  1:48-20200119_204606.jpg  
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 01-22-2020, 08:08 PM
hyair hyair is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Rehovot - Israel
Posts: 1,369
Total Downloaded: 50.80 MB
F-4B VF-111 Sundoweners vs Mig's 17, 19 , 21 images

The F-4 Phantom main rivals Mig fighters
in Vietnam were the Mig -17 which was the main NVAF throughout the all war , the Mig -21 f13 and MF types from 1966 till the end of the war and lastly the Mig-19 only in 1972 for a short period.
Attached here images of all together.
In the next chapters I will write on the tactics used against each one of the Mig's as each had different flight envelope performance and had to deal with in a different way.

Yair
Attached Thumbnails
F-4B Phantom  1:48-20200123_034738.jpg   F-4B Phantom  1:48-20200123_034749.jpg   F-4B Phantom  1:48-20200123_034804.jpg   F-4B Phantom  1:48-20200123_034822.jpg   F-4B Phantom  1:48-20200123_034842.jpg  

Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 01-23-2020, 04:31 AM
Vinalssergio155's Avatar
Vinalssergio155 Vinalssergio155 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Ezeiza.Argentina
Posts: 2,373
Total Downloaded: 219.49 MB
Interesting comparison between the Phantom and the Corsair, I did not know that in this mode of attack the Corsair was better.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 01-24-2020, 12:39 AM
hyair hyair is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Rehovot - Israel
Posts: 1,369
Total Downloaded: 50.80 MB
Dear Sergio - the A7E was designed as an attack plane from the outset while for the Phantom which was multitrule fighter it was just another mission therefore the A7E while slower a bit at low level was the better plane for the attack rule !

Yair
Reply With Quote
Login to remove ads
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:20 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Resources saved on this page: MySQL 8.33%
Parts of this site powered by vBulletin Mods & Addons from DragonByte Technologies Ltd. (Details)
Copyright © 2007-17, Paper Modelers.com