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  #51  
Old 05-05-2020, 10:06 AM
hyair hyair is offline
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F-86E Sabre vs MD 452 Mystere II

The Sabre in the early models was comparable with the Mystere II in terms of performance. Both planes had similar axial motors with 6200 lb J47 for the Sabre and Atar 101D for the Mystere with 6600 lb thrust. Top speed of 1060 -1070
Kph at low level. Climb rate of 8000 feet per min for both.The Mystere had 4 x20 mm canons while the Sabre had 6x 0.5 machine guns. Only 150 Mystere II were built while the Sabre was built in thousands. The Service life in the French airforce was short as the type was retired from 1957 after barely 3 years of use.
The Sabre had a bit longer service
but did not stay in service much longer . The Mystere II model is from Ecard models and Sabre from electronic cards.

Yair
Attached Thumbnails
F-86D Sabre dog Murph's models 1:48-20200505_182111.jpg   F-86D Sabre dog Murph's models 1:48-20200505_182123.jpg   F-86D Sabre dog Murph's models 1:48-20200505_182142.jpg   F-86D Sabre dog Murph's models 1:48-20200505_182254.jpg   F-86D Sabre dog Murph's models 1:48-20200505_182311.jpg  

F-86D Sabre dog Murph's models 1:48-20200505_182359.jpg  
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  #52  
Old 05-06-2020, 05:40 PM
hyair hyair is offline
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F-86D Sabre dog vs MD 454 Mystre IVa

The two are very close in many ways in terms of performance but the mission is slightly different .
The Sabre dog only weapon was it's under belly 24 rockets that were supposed to be used to kill invading incoming Russian bombers with the radar computer that released them at a very precise tenth of second automaticaly !!!
The Mystere usualy caried 2x30 mm canons that were very effective for both air to air or ground missions. There was also an option to remove the guns in the Mystere and load atray of 24 rockets much in the same nanner
of the Sabre dog but this was not a popular option because of the wide rockets dispertion and lack of accuracy using them. The canons of 30 mm had much better chance of killing enemy fighters. As far as I know the rocket option was seldom used in the IAF !!!
Despite the Sabre dog after burner
engine the Mystere had the same thrust in military power and with almost the same speed and climb rate as it's Sabre dog rival here.
Speed of 1135 vs 1120 kph at low level and climb rate of 12000 feet per min vs 9800 of the Mystere.
The Sabre range suffered real bad if the afterburner was used for long periods !!!
The Mystere killed 12 mig 15 and 17 and 1 Hunter with Israelian airforce while the Indian airforce killed 1 F-104 Starfighter !!! with Mystere in 1965 Indo Pakistan war.
The Sabre model is from Murph's models and the Mystere is Yoav execellent design both in 1:48 scale .

Yair
Attached Thumbnails
F-86D Sabre dog Murph's models 1:48-20200507_015656.jpg   F-86D Sabre dog Murph's models 1:48-20200507_015708.jpg   F-86D Sabre dog Murph's models 1:48-20200507_015715.jpg   F-86D Sabre dog Murph's models 1:48-20200507_015727.jpg   F-86D Sabre dog Murph's models 1:48-20200507_015804.jpg  

F-86D Sabre dog Murph's models 1:48-20200507_015814.jpg   F-86D Sabre dog Murph's models 1:48-20200507_015912.jpg   F-86D Sabre dog Murph's models 1:48-20200507_015922.jpg   F-86D Sabre dog Murph's models 1:48-20200507_015934.jpg  
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  #53  
Old 05-07-2020, 12:41 PM
Falco Falco is offline
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I don't know how you achieved this but although these kits are from different designers your build come out as if they are from the same designer... Easy on the eyes when when displayed next to each other.
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  #54  
Old 05-27-2020, 03:16 PM
hyair hyair is offline
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Dear Falco - thanks for your reply. I guess it is related to the way you build these models that after a while you adapt a certain way of build.

Yair
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  #55  
Old 05-27-2020, 09:16 PM
hyair hyair is offline
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Sabre dog vs Cougar

The two are planes that served at the same period of 1950's and had the same role of interceptors . The sad thing about is that a newer types came to service in such a rapid pace that their service period was short.
The Sabre role was to shoot incoming bombers with rockets that were carried in
a moving tray in the belly and later it was adapted to carry 2 sidewinders but without guns.
The Cougar had 4 x20 mm guns and was able to carry 4 sidewinders under the wings.
In terms of performance the J47 with afterburner gave the Sabre had a clear advantage in speed and acceleration - 1140 vs 1050 kph at low level and climb of 12000 vs 6600 feet per min !
The Axial flow engines were much better than the Radial engines of the period in terms of response and available thrust as proven here.
The two were built in relatively big numbers and the Cougar was phased out first toward 1958 while the Sabre dog was replaced by the much bigger and faster Super Sabre not so long after.
The Cougar never fired in anger and Sabre dog at least in USAF service not as well.

Yair
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  #56  
Old 05-28-2020, 09:21 PM
hyair hyair is offline
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F-86D Sabre dog vs F9F -8 Cougar images

The are not big planes and the Cougar is half meter longer at 12.9 m length while the Sabre has a wider span. Also the Sabre sit slightly higher on the ground. The Sabre retained the Sabre family wing shape with the same 35 degrees swept which was NASA standard at the time. The Cougar dash 8 wing was much bigger from the dash 6 to gain lift and fuel capacity.
The Cougar is from Geli and is a very old model so the paint work had to be grey up and white below and not all grey but it is the only decent paper model here if we exclude the simple Fidler green paper model.

Yair
Attached Thumbnails
F-86D Sabre dog Murph's models 1:48-20200528_052836.jpg   F-86D Sabre dog Murph's models 1:48-20200528_052846.jpg   F-86D Sabre dog Murph's models 1:48-20200528_052902.jpg   F-86D Sabre dog Murph's models 1:48-20200528_052952.jpg   F-86D Sabre dog Murph's models 1:48-20200528_053003.jpg  

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  #57  
Old 06-26-2020, 11:44 AM
hyair hyair is offline
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f-86D Sabre dog VS Hunter F6

Both planes flew in the mid 50's and the Sabre dog some two years earlier in 1954 .
The main differance between the two is the power differance and type of engine that was used. The Sabre dog was adapted the sandard 2.7 ton J47 and an afteburner was added which increased the thurst up to 3.5 ton.
The Hunter F6 was given the Avon 207 series with 4.5 ton without afterburner.
Performance wise the speed was the same at 1140 kph at sea level or mach 0.94 . The climb rate was 12000 for the Sabre dog and 17500 for the Hunter.
At sea level the Hunter had the edge in handling and had a better acceleration because the much more powerful engine.
The Hunter had 4 x 30 mm aden cannons with total 600 shells that each could down a plane while the f-86D was limited to 24 rockets and later was fitted with two sidewinders.
The Sabredog had to use it's afterburner in order to be a match for the Hunter - something that reduced it's range in a big way.
Also as an attack plane the Hunter had a clear advantage with the ability to carry much more weapons and up to 2 tons loads.
The Hunter is a clear winner here !!!

Yair
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  #58  
Old 06-28-2020, 09:47 AM
hyair hyair is offline
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F-86D Sabre dog vs F-6 Hunter images

The Hunter is the far more elegant among the two and has a longer and slimmer fuselage. It doesn't mean that the Sabre dog is looking bad because the nose cone is put nicely with the rest of the fuselage but his opponent is far superior here. The models were added with clear canopies and full cockpits.
Both models are in 1:48 scale for comparison reasons.

Yair
Attached Thumbnails
F-86D Sabre dog Murph's models 1:48-20200628_183036.jpg   F-86D Sabre dog Murph's models 1:48-20200628_183021.jpg   F-86D Sabre dog Murph's models 1:48-20200628_183105.jpg   F-86D Sabre dog Murph's models 1:48-20200628_183154.jpg   F-86D Sabre dog Murph's models 1:48-20200628_183356.jpg  

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  #59  
Old 06-28-2020, 10:17 AM
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Isaac Isaac is offline
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Thumbs up Some further comments

Yair


The Sabre Dog D was really modified from a conventional first generation F-86 as a radar equipped bomber interceptor. Hence the rockets carried under the belly. I don't think it needed to go too fast or be maneuverable to intercept bombers. Also, it was never intended as a fighter bomber and thus external load was light.

We have great looking example here at the Air Force museum in Dayton where I volunteer ( my volunteering is on pause until the pandemic is over and I feel comfortable to return ).
F-86D Sabre dog Murph's models 1:48-f-86d.jpg
Can you see the rocket tray on the bottom?

and I did get to see a beautiful Hunter in Singapore a few years back.
F-86D Sabre dog Murph's models 1:48-hunter-singapore.jpg


In any case it was one of the early NATO allies fighter jets along with the F-84F
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  #60  
Old 06-29-2020, 03:49 PM
hyair hyair is offline
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Dear Isaac - for unknown reasons many post Korea fighters were equipped with rockets as a means to kill Russian invading bombers that carried nuclear bombs.
The F-89 Scorpion F-94C Starfire F-86D F7U-3 Cutlass F-102 Delta Dagger all carrid various arrangements of rocets from 24 to 104 in number.
The main problem of the rockets was the dispersion of unguided weapon in which the flying trajectory was not even. When the Sidewinder become available in 1956 all the unguided rockets become obsolete in one day.
So a new and much more powerful weapon came as the Genie nuclear missile that was designed to kill a fleet of invading Russian bombers in one explosion. However it was proved that the Russians mislead the west by doing flybys of a small number of bombers that were recirculating time after time to give the elusion that many were in service while at least in the late 50's that was not the real situation and not so many bombers were available for nuclear sorties.
The Genie missile was phased of service in 1963 as it was proved that the Russian treat was not as dangerous as it was taught earlier.

Yair
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