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  #21  
Old 12-27-2014, 09:43 PM
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ashevilleangler ashevilleangler is offline
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Gonna build them as foamies eh! That's a great idea. You can do all the parts in foam and print the graphics on thin paper.

I'll keep following this thread with great interest.

Curt
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  #22  
Old 12-28-2014, 01:51 AM
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mbauer mbauer is offline
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F4 Phantom

Working on another project, but all the comments for improvements, kept causing me to stop and think about fixing the F100.

Stopped working on the project and created a whole new model:
F4 Phantom in South East Asia Camouflage.

Improvements include:
1) Thinner Rudder
2) Different shape airfoil, used the Gottingen 417A Curved Plate, camber 6%
3) Added a rubber band hook
4) Added laminations in the front to handle the rubber band catapult
5) 2 degree wing incidence

Thank you Beta Builders for your advice! Learned allot! Hopefully this one flies better!

Photos show the cardstock model, want to test it before I go crazy with foam. Trying to get it to balance without adding weight, that is why the laminations are different. I know it is heavy, but if I can get the heavy ones to fly the lighter ones will be awesome!

BTW-Hudsonduster explained the flat spins. For these models with flat fuselages, the rudder doesn't have enough authority to counter any distrubances to yaw. Or in other words straight flights should work great...Turns not so good.

Right Side
F100 Profile Glider Beta Builder Needed-1-f4-r-side.jpg

Left Side
F100 Profile Glider Beta Builder Needed-2-f4-l-side.jpg

Bottom
F100 Profile Glider Beta Builder Needed-3-f4-bott.jpg

Close Up Of Hook
F100 Profile Glider Beta Builder Needed-4-f4-launch.jpg

Dowel w/Rubberband
F100 Profile Glider Beta Builder Needed-5-f4-launcher.jpg

Mike
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  #23  
Old 12-28-2014, 02:29 AM
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Robert Woolley Robert Woolley is offline
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Now that looks the business Mike. Though you may need to enlarge it a tad if you are planning to strap that pulse jet on it!
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  #24  
Old 12-29-2014, 09:24 PM
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mbauer mbauer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hikokibert View Post
Now that looks the business Mike. Though you may need to enlarge it a tad if you are planning to strap that pulse jet on it!
Whoops, no pulsejet for this one.

Going to edge color the F4 next. More changes to the F4 laminations.

Its been suggested to use one cardstock lamination in the middle and shorter laminations for the next two with the outside printed on regular paper.

Curious, how many do you think will work, and the model will still have enough strength?

Mike
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  #25  
Old 12-30-2014, 05:24 AM
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Hudsonduster Hudsonduster is offline
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I sympathize with the principle of going all-paper in the construction, but for a flyer it's troublesome: paper is way heavy, with no real rigidity in either plane. Pardon the pun.

Best thing to do is to "box" the fuselage - card on the outside, with a filler of some sort inbetween to make a stiffer ply: foam would be ideal (and you could just use bond paper on the outside, since you're just using the outer plys for shear strength), or a hollow outline of Bristol, with a couple strategically placed inner webs (and at least 60# cover stock outside). Solid inner plys of paper are just extra mass.
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  #26  
Old 12-30-2014, 11:07 PM
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Wyvern Wyvern is offline
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Both models fantastic, Mike!

If you ever get into other schemes for either, would love to see a colorful Bare metal F100 and a Navy or Marines F4. And I'm sure plenty of folks would like Angels / T-Birds versions as well. Should be good sellers on Ecardmodels.

Wyvern
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  #27  
Old 12-31-2014, 01:35 AM
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mbauer mbauer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudsonduster View Post
I sympathize with the principle of going all-paper in the construction, but for a flyer it's troublesome: paper is way heavy, with no real rigidity in either plane. Pardon the pun.

Best thing to do is to "box" the fuselage - card on the outside, with a filler of some sort inbetween to make a stiffer ply: foam would be ideal (and you could just use bond paper on the outside, since you're just using the outer plys for shear strength), or a hollow outline of Bristol, with a couple strategically placed inner webs (and at least 60# cover stock outside). Solid inner plys of paper are just extra mass.
Agree with you about loosing weight. Just had the chance to see the F4 flying model released by McDonnel (1966 F4B). Single sheet, wings flat plate, incidence about 4 degree, oversize Stab. Fuselage is a 2-ply cardstock, owner says about 176 gsm or 65lb cover. Very interesting to see, uses paperclip for balance. They used dihederal on the outer wing panels by bending up just like the full size.

Simple and very fast build!

After seeing it, going to loose the laminations for the fuselage and look at ways to lighten the wings.

Being stubborn means I will probably keep the airfoil shape , but also build a flat plate version to compare the two in a fly off.

BTW-Decalage strictly refers to the difference in rigging angles of the upper and lower wings of biplanes. (Had to look it up in one of my books)

Mike
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  #28  
Old 12-31-2014, 01:47 AM
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mbauer mbauer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyvern View Post
Both models fantastic, Mike!

If you ever get into other schemes for either, would love to see a colorful Bare metal F100 and a Navy or Marines F4. And I'm sure plenty of folks would like Angels / T-Birds versions as well. Should be good sellers on Ecardmodels.

Wyvern
Thank you for the vote of confidence!

The F100 was created first, because it was the first at level supersonic flight. It was my first try at creating a simple model.

The F4 was chosen because of the many, many different paints available. You didn't mention the Navy '76... Several paint options have been saved!

I use autocad with 256 colors available, when converted to a PDF, the print looses color going to sRGB. No way to create a bare metal look. Will need someone to create that look that has the capabilities to do so!

If I can get these to work, I have several 3-views to design from!

One of the next has only the bare metal look...

Mike
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  #29  
Old 12-31-2014, 10:23 AM
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Wyvern Wyvern is offline
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I've been an admirer of your stomp-rockets and I look forward to seeing this series develop as well.

Wyvern
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  #30  
Old 01-03-2015, 01:54 AM
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mbauer mbauer is offline
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B-58 Great Flyer

Next design has been created, a few tweaks to the graphics and construction and it will be ready for PDF phase.

Flys great if tossed in level flight with some power, walls don't make a very good landing surface, although they are flat.

Mike
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F100 Profile Glider Beta Builder Needed-b58-1.jpg   F100 Profile Glider Beta Builder Needed-b58-2.jpg   F100 Profile Glider Beta Builder Needed-b58-3.jpg   F100 Profile Glider Beta Builder Needed-b58-4.jpg  
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