Dilemma with a couple of freebies

[Rubenandres77]

Hello!
It's me again with another weird question.

Actually two questions, but closely related.

This time, concerning a couple of free paper models.


First, I was interested in certain famous airplane.
Let's call it "Ghost XXX" by the time being, to avoid problems.

When I typed Ghost XXX + free + paper model in Google,
one of the top 5 results links directly to a PDF.
The PDF is hosted at: http://www.nameofwebsite.etc/free/Ghost_XXX.pdf

However, when I just go to http://www.nameofwebsite.etc/free
or attempt to type http://www.nameofwebsite.etc I get redirected to
another website http://www.new_nameofwebsite.etc.

Other references to the file of the plane is question I've found in
other blogs and websites they all say the PDF of "Ghost XXX" is a
free model, and they link to http://www.nameofwebsite.etc
But of course, every time this gets redirected to the new site.

When looking deeply for this model in the new redirected site ,
I cannot find it anywhere. It is clearly the site of the same
designer/store. And there are other free models to download,
but no reference at all to the "Ghost XXX" free model.


Summarizing: The "Ghost XXX" PDF is still buried somewhere in an active server,
it was once offered as a free download, but now it is not offered
anymore in the new site. It can't be accessed directly from a website
(only through the direct link of Google's results).

This "Ghost XXX" has not been offered as a paid model by the same
designer. It just doesn't "exist" publicly in the new site.
Though it still lives in the server.

Question is: is it legal to download it and build it?



Second question is similar to the previous:

In an old blog (very old ca. 2002) I found a photo and a reference
to a helicopter (let's call this one "Helicoaircraft" just to put a name on it).
The links to the site where it was available as a free download
are no longer working. It looks like the organization that owned
the website changed server and has a new domain name now.
But again, the "Helicoaircraft" can not be found in the new site.

The "Helicoaircraft" was a custom design for this organization
by a person who has designed other aircraft. This person sells some
of his designs in a known site, and also offers some free models.
The "Helicoaircaft" was a design of his from the late 1990s.
And it can not be found even in his current website.

Again, a quick search in Google sent me directly to a PDF file
of the model in question. Only this time the server looks like
it has nothing to do with the original organization that once hosted it.

Again, this same model has not been offered as a paid model anywhere.
Actually, it looks like no-one has ever made any "Helicoaircraft"
paper model besides this person. And the model can't be found
anywhere else on the web.

I'd like to build it someday, because it's beautifully designed.
And the heli itself is good-looking.

But again, the Question is: is it legal to download it and build it?


I believe that in the case of the "Ghost XXX" there are other free models
and I can download any of them, though they look a lot more difficult
than the one I found first.

But with the "Helicoaircraft" things are different: no-one as designed it again.

Sooo...

Any questuions clarifying this issue are welcome

Thanks a lot in advance.
(and sorry if this question sounds too stupid or was put in the wrong sub-forum)

[Retired_for_now]

Interesting ...

Non-expert opinion follows.

The original designer owns the model and the rights. One of those is the ability to give it away, and to stop giving it away after some time (as a few folks do). If the designer puts a free model out it's fair game (subject to any restrictions specified). Once it's withdrawn by the designer/owner, that should be it and we're all out of luck.
HOWEVER, that's a naive point of view given the web's connections and storage. Once you release a file into the wild it's gone. Copies, rehosting without permission (which is piracy), and the wayback machine (historical snap shots of web sites) provide virtual immortality.
Your Ghost example looks like a withdrawn model (designer lost interest, is redrawing it for sale/release, who knows ...). I'd contact the designer through the web site and ask for a copy or for the model to be reposted.
Your helo example looks like piracy (hosted at an unrelated web site).

Yogi (Do whatever allows you to look at yourself in the mirror with a smile ...)

[Ron40]

If I had that kind of run around I would just forget it and
move on. It depends on how many hoops you are willing
to jump through to get a model that is no longer available.
Just my opinion for what it's worth....Ron

[B-Manic]

Your best option in both cases is to contact the designer or the designer's host sight and ask what the status of the models are and if it is still possible to get copies of the free version.

Designers sometimes remove early efforts from availability because they do not believe they are 'good enough', that there is enough interest in them, or to reduce bandwidth / storage requirements.

[Lex]

Another non-expert opinion:

If there is no explicit notice from the designer, anywhere, that the model is not available from whatever time, AND that the author declared it illegal, anywhere, for other sites to host the file, then I for one would go print the file and build it with little to concern. As a designer myself, the thinking that once something has been released via internet (especially for free), it could end up virtually anywhere is not a naive thought at all, and if I am actually serious about holding all the rights of a free model to myself, I would surely put such a notice on my site, inside the model file and anywhere else I could think of. Other designers do exactly the same, and this thinking goes into how I treat files from other designers as well.

Baseline is, if one released something for free, without explicitly holding his/her right to the file but later changed his/her mind and wants the whole thing back, sorry, you just can't do that. It's just not possible in the age of internet.

[Rubenandres77]

Thanks a lot for your opinions and your suggestions.

This are tricky situations, and I still reserve the name
of the models and designers.

Last week I contacted the designer of the "ghostXXX"
and his answer was vague and completely unrelated.
Totally useless.

He said nothing about the kit, he didn't answered my direct
question whether it would be released again on his website
as a free or as a paid model... nothing.
And the PDF file is still there in the server.

In fact, he said nothing about the "GhostXXX" but instead
suggested me to get Fiddler's Green Cessna 152.
The same as if someone offered me a candy when I was
looking for a cup of tea.

I was pissed with his answer.
Didn't know whether to laugh or to cry.

Fortunately I found the same plane as an official
free download and in a much more detailed kit
from a big site.




On the other hand, I tried looking for information on the
"Helicoaircraft". But since I don't have a direct way of
contacting its designer, I contacted instead the person
responsible for the store where the designer sells most
of hiz famous models.

This time, the vendor was kind and precise.
He said that he had no info on the Heli, and that he didn't
have the files of the original kit.

And he didn't knew about the current status of the kit
or the designer's position about it.

But he suggested me to contact the organization where the
kit was hosted, to learn from them their position.
(I still have to write to them).

And.... he also kindly sent me a recoloured version of the same
"Helicoaircraft" kit that someone made years ago.
A flawless PDF file complete with parts and diagrams.

And since the recolour version differs little from the original
(color is almost the same, differences are in the markings)
I was quite happy.

I still need to contact that organization to see if the
original heli can be obtained from them, or to learn
what's the current status of the kit.

It is a nice heli. It would be nice to see it again.






New technologies have facilitated life a lot, and paper
modelling also has benefited a lot from the internet,
the digital files, and the easiness to share.

However, as Yogi noted "virtual immortality" can also
be a complex issue.

It is good to see that there are some things to be learned
from this experience.