Cost of a Logo

[goodduck]

The bottom line is you are a professional, you don't ever need to justify yourself to your clients why you worth what you worth. Specially if your client already seen your works. Your client come to you, you stated your price. Client think it is high. You say "Thank you for your inquiry." You walk. Matter closed. Four times I did that, four times clients came beck too hired me. Just let your clients know there are always someone cheaper then you and you wish them luck. Don't let this bother you.

[Yale]

Armorman, you remind me of many times during my tech-writer career, when the product-development guys couldn't believe how long customer documentation would take or how much it would cost. We'd give them a few hints, such as writing manuals that explained how to use the product, rather than just how the product worked. Every year, somebody would decide to call our bluff by writing the manuals himself, and all such amateur efforts amounted to relabeling the design specification, "user's manual." And every time, angry customer complaints had them begging us for help on an overtime basis, so their department got billed twice our first estimate. As other people on this thread have pointed out, everything seems fast and easy to do if you're not the one who must do it.

[mbauer]

Great discussion!

Mike

[Hudsonduster]

My favorite story goes all the way back to the start of my professional time, in 1967: customer came in and needed a special adapter for some coupling; basically, a fat washer. Give it to the kid, the boss said, and left. I set up on the lathe and turned out a beautiful fat washer, in about 20 minutes. Wrote the invoice myself, too, based on shop rate & material. Proud as heck.
Customer hit the roof. "Thirty bucks?? I could get a d@#n washer at the hardware store for fifteen cents!!"
Cecil the foreman quietly said, "--Then go do that."
The guy came back later that afternoon and talked the owner down to like $15. I felt betrayed. Since then, I've come to understand that craftsmen famously undervalue their talents, which suits the rest of the market just jolly fine.

'Duster

[dansls1]

What does the $700 include? Multiple attempts if the client doesn't like the first few? Registering the logo as a trademark? Or just a rough sketch that he likes or doesn't like and changes cost him more money? I think I need to know more about standard terms before I could even begin to know if this sounds reasonable or not.

[ARMORMAN]

A response from a fellow businessman:


You are asking us to build a 'brain tattoo'; some mark that will indelibly be stamped, etched, burned onto the brain of your prospects such that you will be remembered first when they need the services you provide.

Moreover, this brain tattoo needs to be unique (if you have any intention of trademarking it) and it needs to be able to be reproduced consistently in a variety of media - print (letterhead/cards/newspaper/billboard/etc., video (TV?), vinyl (vehicle graphics), and apparel (silkscreen and/or embroidery) - each with their own colour schemes and eccentricities.

Given this underlying framework, more often than not, this mark must be recognizable in colour and B/W; this mark (if an image) should be able to stand alone in identifying you, your business and/or your product/service. Consider for a moment how well the equal housing graphic, shell oil symbol, nike swoop, pepsi ball, starbucks mermaid, playboy bunny and VW emblem work. None are technically difficult to draw, but you're not buying a draughtsman you are buying the services of a design professional who will synthesize all the above information into a uniquely identifyable and memorable business identifyer.

You are not willing to pay $1000, 700 or perhaps even 500 for a logo, for a variety of reasons including 1) you only see the final goal 'a logo' not the various design concepts, comps and colour discussions (this blue vs that blue, etc.) that it takes to arrive at that final logo; and 2) you don't truly understand how important a 'good' logo is and how valuable it is to your business.

This is not a if I like it, I'll pay for it business. Try that w/ your dentist... After your dentist inspects your teeth and suggests some work to prevent further tooth decay. Tell him/her to go ahead, and if the dental work is satisfactory, you’d be more than happy to pay. They'll likely respond that they wouldn’t be able to do that, because normally provides a service when a fee is agreed upon up-front. Design is no less professional and your teeth won't directly bring revenue into the business.

A logo is the very first impression people get of your company.
A logo needs longevity.
A logo needs to be original.
A logo should look professional.
A logo should reflect the time and thought gone in to designing it.
A logo is the starting point of your whole corporate image.
If your business is only worth a cloned piece of clip-art and some standard text to represent it, please feel free to spend several hours (how much are your hours worth to you) on the internet looking for that flower, shoosh, cuddly puppy, or squiggly line in just the right colour you want and in the electronic format such that it can be shrunk to a postage stamp and enlarged to a billboard w/o falling apart.

If, however, you understand the long-term benefit of investing in your business; you recognize that you are amortizing the cost of your corporate identity over the number of years you intend to use it; you understand that the designer has their own costs (besides their education/training and talent development) associated w/ creating this identity for you (which includes the $1xxx computer and $500-750 software used to create it), then by all means lets continue the discussion.

[ARMORMAN]

To answer your question, Dansis, final art ready for use (Pdf, vector).

[Sakrison]

Your letter to the client was accurate, if perhaps a bit blunt. (Of course, I don't know what passed between you beforehand.) When I run into situations like that, I usually just point out that my fees are competitive, my experience goes back almost 40 years, and my clients include at least a few household names. A long list of testimonials goes a long way, too.

As for protecting your work, until it's paid for, you own it. If your client violates that copyright by taking your work to some other artist to finish, you should certainly charge him for it and, if he refuses to pay, you can legally prohibit him from using the finished product. Be sure to document (and date) the work you've done.

If you think this client will give you trouble, print the work, date it, and have it notarized. If you have solid documentation, a threat to sue should be persuasive enough. Paper model designers, take note.

As a professional writer, I often work with graphic designers and I hear similar stories of clients who are "shocked....shocked, I say," at the cost of graphic design. I paid about $600 for my logo nearly 20 years ago when I started my corporate writing business. I tried to design my own logo before hiring a pro, and the value I have gotten out of that purchase far exceeds what it cost me.

Once I got the finished letterhead from the designer, I dated a sheet, had it notarized and put it in my safe deposit box. Registering a trademark cost more than I could afford at the time. But at least the notarized copy legally certifies the date on which I started using the mark. (I did register my business names with State of WI.)

I can't compete with the countless hacks who churn out $25 news releases or charge 10 cents a word, nor do I want to. And I don't expect to hire good talent on the cheap. Most businesses (not all) expect to pay fees like mine for good talent. And I am very good at what I do; my clients tell me so.

At the end of the day, it all comes down to getting what you pay for. Talent and experience count and you can't hire them for a nickel and a dime.

--David

[Sakrison]

Originally Posted by goodduck

The bottom line is you are a professional, you don't ever need to justify yourself to your clients why you worth what you worth. Specially if your client already seen your works. Your client come to you, you stated your price. Client think it is high. You say "Thank you for your inquiry." You walk. Matter closed. Four times I did that, four times clients came beck too hired me. Just let your clients know there are always someone cheaper then you and you wish them luck. Don't let this bother you.

We're all hungry at the start, but as I'm sure you've learned, Allen, the first time you fire a client for being a jerk or turn down a job from someone who wants a bargain, it's a very liberating experience!
--David

[Loui]

very interesting threads...