Cost of a Logo

[ARMORMAN]

I have been having a conversation with a client that is starting his own business. I received an email last night and thought it may be food for thought for others out there:

XXX wrote:

Im just thinking to myself. How do these logos cost $700?? I am not able to justify paying that rate. Or providing my service for a credit of $700.

Could you explain please?

XXX,

I will ask you a hypothetical question in return: Why should I pay you anything more than fuel cost if I were to hire you to cut my lawn?

I mean, If I were to cut my lawn, I could do it for under $2 (I have a very small lot). Why should I (or anyone else) pay you for more than that?

You're just pushing a mower back and forth. Anyone can do that.

These are questions you should have answers for.

About 3 or 4 years ago, I posted on Ebay a paper model kit I had designed and printed. I got a question from an individual that said,"Why should I pay you for a paper model?" What this person failed to realize was that he was not just paying for several pieces of printed card stock and 15 sheets of printed instructions; but also my knowledge of how to create a paper model kit, the software that was used in creating the model, the time involved in creating/test building the model, and the software used to make the textures that made it look "real." Plus the 25+ years of professional art experience that adds to the final product. Often people look at the final result and don't think about what goes into it.

Now, on to your question.

First, I never said I was going to charge you $700. I said I normally start at $700.

Second, you are paying me to create what you cannot. This means I have a skill that is needed. That has value. It also required a 4 year degree additional to a high school diploma, which I have acquired. I also have 25+ years experience doing this type of thing. I bring knowledge and insight that a new grad will not have. This acquired knowledge also has value. I have taken the time to purchase and learn software that can aid in my creation of the art you require. This also has value.

As I told you in our first conversations, your logo is THE most important piece of art you will purchase for your company. It is the tool that you will be using to sell your business. It will be on your vehicles, business cards, letterhead, billing, t-shirts, and any promotional items that you choose to create for your company. If you succeed and run an honorable operation, it will be the first thing people will notice. Conversely, if you are dishonest it will become a symbol of warning. Once you have paid for this one piece of artwork, you will own it forever. You can do with it as you please, and I will never be coming to ask for a fee for use on whatever you want to use it on or how you want to use it. You have rights to the art and I have none. Does this have any value to you, or do you hold that which you are about to invest a great amount of your time and energy in in such low regard?

Most of your competition have nothing more than their name on the side of their trucks. Putting a logo (especially a well made one) on the side of your vehicle will immediately put you in the minds of potential clients as they will remember a symbol better than a bunch of words (we are a visual species, after all). What value does that have for you?

Let me know if you have any more questions, I will stop all work, and await your response. Please note that if you do decide to go with another artist, but use the rough design as a basis for a final logo, I will be charging you full price.

I look forward to your response.

Bill

[jagolden01]

I feel for you. People have no idea that creativity cost money. Not just for the time but for the talent.

When I had my own graphics company, people though $50/hr was a lot of money (it was actually dirt as others were charging $75 - $150/hr).
Aside from the value of the creativity and knowledge, they had no conception of what that $50/hr had to cover (salary, ongoing training and education, taxes, retirement, reinvestment in equipment, etc.)

When you asked them how much they thought it cost their company for 1 hr of their time they'd say they didn't make $50/hr, but would of course fail to take their total cost as an employee into account.

Short advice - STAY AWAY FROM THIS PERSON.

[Swampfox]

When I was still in the business 12 years ago, $700 was my standard rate for a logo..... I can't believe it's still the same.....

Anyway, I would get the same comments back then and I'd say to potential clients, "Fine, go get estimates from someone else and if you like what you see.......go with them" Usually, a month or so later I'd get a phone call..................."Are you still interested in doing this logo for me?"

People have no idea how much time and work it takes to become a good solid artist....

Don't give up, give them some options and let time take it's course, that's all you can do. They think that your born that way. Sure it's easy as pie.

Good luck and keep working hard, and don't let the bastards get you down.

SFX

[cdavenport]

I have a friend creating a custom Damascus-finish knife for me. It will cost only $400. I didn't even blink. But, then, I know the level of skill and commitment it takes to do something like that.

Short story: most people are ignorant of anything that is just past the end of their noses.

[whulsey]

I spend 25 years in the graphics/pre-press arena and heard similar things all the time. Now of all things I'm driving a city transit bus here in the Phoenix area. We just went out on strike Friday night after 20 months of negotiating with Veolia Transportation and am hearing the same type of statements from the people that comment on the local newspaper website.

Maj. Davenport has it down to the basic which I'll shorten to: most people are ignorant.

[goodduck]

What! $700! how could you justify 700 bucks? My minimum freelance feed $2,000 per week. You selling yourself cheap. Your client should come talk to us in our studio.

[ARMORMAN]

Allen,

This started out as a favor for a mutual friend.

You also must be based out of LA of NYC.

[Zathros]

Sounds like your mutual friend gave that person a favor they thought you owed him (or her).

The Midwest is dying I think. Location, location, location!!

[murphyaa]

I went and designed my own logo, just because I wanted to see if I could, and how recognizable it would be in a few years.

[ARMORMAN]

Friend of mine responded with this:

You are asking us to build a 'brain tattoo'; some mark that will indelibly be stamped, etched, burned onto the brain of your prospects such that you will be remembered first when they need the services you provide.

Moreover, this brain tattoo needs to be unique (if you have any intention of trademarking it) and it needs to be able to be reproduced consistently in a variety of media - print (letterhead/cards/newspaper/billboard/etc., video (TV?), vinyl (vehicle graphics), and apparel (silkscreen and/or embroidery) - each with their own colour schemes and eccentricities.

Given this underlying framework, more often than not, this mark must be recognizable in colour and B/W; this mark (if an image) should be able to stand alone in identifying you, your business and/or your product/service. Consider for a moment how well the equal housing graphic, shell oil symbol, nike swoop, pepsi ball, starbucks mermaid, playboy bunny and VW emblem work. None are technically difficult to draw, but you're not buying a draughtsman you are buying the services of a design professional who will synthesize all the above information into a uniquely identifyable and memorable business identifyer.

You are not willing to pay $1000, 700 or perhaps even 500 for a logo, for a variety of reasons including 1) you only see the final goal 'a logo' not the various design concepts, comps and colour discussions (this blue vs that blue, etc.) that it takes to arrive at that final logo; and 2) you don't truly understand how important a 'good' logo is and how valuable it is to your business.

This is not a if I like it, I'll pay for it business. Try that w/ your dentist... After your dentist inspects your teeth and suggests some work to prevent further tooth decay. Tell him/her to go ahead, and if the dental work is satisfactory, you’d be more than happy to pay. They'll likely respond that they wouldn’t be able to do that, because normally provides a service when a fee is agreed upon up-front. Design is no less professional and your teeth won't directly bring revenue into the business.

A logo is the very first impression people get of your company.
A logo needs longevity.
A logo needs to be original.
A logo should look professional.
A logo should reflect the time and thought gone in to designing it.
A logo is the starting point of your whole corporate image.
If your business is only worth a cloned piece of clip-art and some standard text to represent it, please feel free to spend several hours (how much are your hours worth to you) on the internet looking for that flower, shoosh, cuddly puppy, or squiggly line in just the right colour you want and in the electronic format such that it can be shrunk to a postage stamp and enlarged to a billboard w/o falling apart.

If, however, you understand the long-term benefit of investing in your business; you recognize that you are amortizing the cost of your corporate identity over the number of years you intend to use it; you understand that the designer has their own costs (besides their education/training and talent development) associated w/ creating this identity for you (which includes the $1xxx computer and $500-750 software used to create it), then by all means lets continue the discussion.