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  #11  
Old 06-04-2012, 04:06 AM
hirondelle hirondelle is offline
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Thanks Wyvern, thats useful to know.

Back to the blueprint - a couple of detailed Jumo 4s would make an interesting build on their own. Add control surfaces & some 30mm cannon & there is quite a lot of detail to play with in that sleek shape. Guess the tubular frame for the cockpit would make a nice module standalone model too.
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  #12  
Old 06-04-2012, 05:00 AM
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eric_son eric_son is offline
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Just in case you've not yet seen this, here's another nice link to a Ho229 thread over at the Secretprojects forum:
Horten Ho-229 1250 liter fuel tanks

You'll want to check out Post#6.
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  #13  
Old 06-04-2012, 07:30 AM
thorst thorst is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hirondelle View Post
Thanks Wyvern, thats useful to know.

Back to the blueprint - a couple of detailed Jumo 4s would make an interesting build on their own. Add control surfaces & some 30mm cannon & there is quite a lot of detail to play with in that sleek shape. Guess the tubular frame for the cockpit would make a nice module standalone model too.
That's the plan Jumo 004 drawings are here, too... But the framework won't be a simple task. it runs through the whole center of the aircraft (the center had a tubular framework structure, the wings were wooden).
But no cannons - I'll build either the V2 or the V3, none of them had weapons installed IIRC.
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  #14  
Old 06-04-2012, 09:29 AM
hirondelle hirondelle is offline
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God link eric_son, that doc will help with internals I think.

& there was a nice pic labelled Ho229 v3 with some weaponry


You may need some guns after all Thorsten
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  #15  
Old 06-05-2012, 12:40 PM
hirondelle hirondelle is offline
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This was the show that started me off - NG Hitlers' Stealth Fighter if anyones interested.

Thorsten - should've said that I liked the idea of that framework holding the engines (as in the pic above).
The original construction looks modular (it looks like the trike with engines could be rolled into the wooden wing) so I guess you could make really detailed modules/parts or have them hidden away & reduce build complexity.
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  #16  
Old 06-05-2012, 01:22 PM
thorst thorst is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hirondelle View Post
Thorsten - should've said that I liked the idea of that framework holding the engines (as in the pic above).
The original construction looks modular (it looks like the trike with engines could be rolled into the wooden wing) so I guess you could make really detailed modules/parts or have them hidden away & reduce build complexity.
Yes, the wings could be built seperated from the mid section. The only problem I couldn't find a solution for is: How to make thin rods for the framework? The only way in paper I could think of is to build it at a fairly large scale- at least 1/24, where thin paper can be rolled to appropriate tubes.
Exceptionally, detailing this aircraft wouldn't be a matter of too few references but on too good references

BTW, the BBC documentation features a really nice scale model. But the aspect of stealthiness is overdiscussed in my opinion. All experts I read from state that there is no prove that this factor influenced the design during the war, it had to be an invention of later times. I find the airplane fascinating enough to justify a film about it even without the stealth story!

Thorsten
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  #17  
Old 06-06-2012, 06:00 AM
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tingmissartoq tingmissartoq is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thorst View Post
But the aspect of stealthiness is overdiscussed in my opinion. All experts I read from state that there is no prove that this factor influenced the design during the war, it had to be an invention of later times. I find the airplane fascinating enough to justify a film about it even without the stealth story!

Thorsten
From what I have read, the 229 was a natural evolution of the earlier work by the Horton brothers with gliders. The speed and maneuverability of the aircraft would have made any need for stealth redundant in 1946. It would have outclassedany Allied fighter, piston or jet.
At any rate, the fact it was made mainly of wood would have imparted a degree of stealth with the primitive radar of the 1940's, and would have been easy to check by the radar invisibility of the Mosquito (wood construction) against a similar aircraft type of metal construction.
It was certainly one unique aircraft and testimomy to the advanced state of German aeronautics during WW2, far surpassing allied efforts.
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  #18  
Old 06-06-2012, 06:31 AM
hirondelle hirondelle is offline
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Stealth is a catch-phrase for the show & the modern viewer I think.
If it was possible to trace the development of modern stealth aircraft it may be that the examination of the captured 229 showed designers stealth was a natural possibility of the form. (Rather than stealth being specifically sought by the Hortens.)
Chicken & egg maybe.
Either way it's interesting to see what designers can build under very difficult circumstances. Almost proves the social-darwinism theory in a way.
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  #19  
Old 06-06-2012, 06:50 AM
thorst thorst is offline
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In my eyes the problem with the connection between the Horten and stealth is that it washes out the facts to create a myth. Even today where the history is still young and people of this time are still alive, there are enough non-conspiracy theorists (just normal people) who believe or want to believe in the existence of German UFOs from that time. A documentation like the one mentioned IMO adds to such tendencies unneccessarily.
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  #20  
Old 06-07-2012, 03:52 PM
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CharlieC CharlieC is offline
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I think the whole "stealth mythology" might have come from an observation that the radar cross-section (RCS) varies considerably in the Horten design on orientation compared to other similar aircraft. I haven't seen any hard data on this but I'd guess the RCS in front on view is quite small. The main reflecting surface in front on view was probably the compressor blades of the engines as it is in modern jets, the wooden structure would help reduce RCS but not as much as you'd expect. Comparison with propeller driven wooden aircraft isn't going to be useful since the propeller adds significantly to the RCS.

Most of the "stealth" of modern aircraft is media hype. Certainly aircraft like the B-2 and F-22 have very low RCS in front on view but this isn't true for plan views. Both of these aircraft are easily "seen" in over the horizon radars since the radar "sees" the aircraft in plan view.

Regards,

Charlie
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