3D printing on a Large Scale...pointless?

[thorst]

Originally Posted by airdave

But you've still got the problem of the "print" file...which has to be made/converted/ripped from the proper 3D design file.

Isn't this the exact task for a driver software for a home 3D printer? I
mean there are standard file formats for 3D-models just as for images, a
3D-printer for home use should come with a software that can open such a
file and translate it to commands for the printer... just as the print dialog in
any image manipulation software does. As far as I understand it, the task
even isn't too different... I'm sure it will be done in a few months, if it's not
already available now.

Before you say that 3D-printing may require more than just printing the
layers of the model but also doing all the support material layout and such,
this should be automated fairly easy too. I really don't see anything that
makes 3D-printing more complicated for the end user than 2D-printing.

And btw, you don't have to spend hundrets of dollars for a 3D-printer
compatible software. For example Blender should work even better for
human figures than Rhino does, due to its sculpturing functionality. And it
costs not a single cent.

Thorsten

[airdave]

I' sorry...I'm not an expert on 3D printer formats or available softwares.
Please forgive my ignorance in that regard.

To "print" something, you have the original design file...say a .cdr (coreldraw)
then you output or save the file as an .eps
to a design program like SignLab.
the printer can't run directly from Corel...you need a program like Signlab.
Signlab formulates and outputs to the print spooler which runs the printer.

If a 3D printer's operating software is designed to handle a certain type of file input
or multiple types of file inputs, then as long as you importing the correct type of file
into the printer software, then you are good to go.

Keep in mind, there are sometimes differences in the way one program outputs a certain
type of file compared with another design program.

Blender or Rhino are not "3D compatible software".
Blender or Rhino are just 3D drawing and design programs.
Like most design programs, you can output or save a file in at least one file format.
Hopefully you can output in multiple formats that other software can recognize and operate.

When you start operating your 3D printer and its software, you will most likely be told what type of file
formats the software can handle properly...it may or may not be a format specific to Rhino or Blender or other design software.

So...if Blender only outputs in certain file formats, and those file formats are not importable (properly) into the 3D printer program ,
then you WILL have to invest in other software. It will depend on what file formats the designer of the 3D printer has decided to accommodate.
So once again, we are back to the idea of any and all 3D printer manufacturers agreeing on standard file formats and operating systems.
Kind of like how Microsoft and Apple agree to be compatible isn't it?

[Willja67]

There is a lot of open source stuff coming online. Even some light aircraft designs. Grabcad.com is a site where people can upload 3d cad drawings of all different file types. I can see more sites like that springing up with more and more practical applications for 3d printers.

[airdave]

I can see alot of sites like that appearing.

Crafty people taking advantage of uploaded ideas.
A lot of people don't realize that you are giving away rights to artwork
and other design files by uploading them to sites like that.
The site now owns the files and can do whatever they want with them in the future.
They could decide to start selling those designs without any necessary permissions
from the original authors.
Keep that in mind when you "share" something.
See what the permissions are and see what options you have to protect your work (before you upload stuff).

Do you remember the uproar a few years ago regarding one of those photo storage sites?
Free galleries, free uploads, save and store your photos. share them with friends, etc.
What people didn't realize is that unless you specifically set your photos to "private"
and designated them as private property, the host site was free to sell your images on shirts, mugs, posters, etc.

Imagine collecting CAD files now, saving them, and using them later on as retail items
if this "home 3D printer" idea really does pan out.

[papercruiser]

Originally Posted by airdave

Good points Don.
Every time I see an article on "printed" firearms I cringe with fear.
Imagine being able to print, at whim, an unregistered, untraceable gun
which could be used in a crime and then completely and easily destroyed.

And you are right...printing weapons at the frontlines still requires power,
printers and materials...but worse is the time necessary to do the printing.
A lot of people don't realize it takes dozens of hours just to print the smallest
of objects.

I love the Big Bang Theory episode about the guys buying a 3D printer.
They are disappointed with an order of personalized action figures, so they
spend thousands of dollars on a Printer.
In only(sarcasm) three hours they produce a 35cent Whistle that works.
In the end they produce action figures that look like themselves but it takes days of printing.
However, the figures appear fully painted in the episode
...a step which is not explained and yet very important since the printer can only print in one colour.

And on one of the review sites, I read this comment:

Redfinger says: July 15, 2013 at 2:23 pm
I love BBT but hate this episode.
I’m a Mechanical engneer thats been doing 3d and 3dprinting for over 20yrs
The whistle could not have been made, not without removing an inner substrate that would suspend the ball
The resolution on a $10-$50K PRINTER is grainy and you see the 1mm striation.
The fact is 3d printers are the .com fad of this generation.
yah like your all going to model 3d like I do in solidworks... most americas cant read!


Harks but to my own earlier comments about people needing to understand computers, software and 3D design programs.

Your first paragraph can be solved by your last paragraph. It's easier to make a gun with junkyard parts than to print one out on a 3D printer. and I'm not even going to guess how much easier it might be to just buy one off the street in your local gangland neighborhood.

Your average criminal has no means of making a firearm as you demonstrate above; anyone smart enough that has the means to do it is not a criminal.

(Assuming you're an American Citizen) remember, we do have rights, independent of any amount of third-party "cringing."

[Willja67]

Originally Posted by papercruise

Your first paragraph can be solved by your last paragraph. It's easier to make a gun with junkyard parts than to print one out on a 3D printer. and I'm not even going to guess how much easier it might be to just buy one off the street in your local gangland neighborhood.

Your average criminal has no means of making a firearm as you demonstrate above; anyone smart enough that has the means to do it is not a criminal.

(Assuming you're an American Citizen) remember, we do have rights, independent of any amount of third-party "cringing."

While I think you and I are probably on the same page politically, I avoided responding to this issue because it's a political hot potato which forum rules prohibit throwing around on this site.

So maybe we better let this one lie before moderators have to step in and shut this thread down.

[papercruiser]

Originally Posted by Willja67

While I think you and I are probably on the same page politically, I avoided responding to this issue because it's a political hot potato which forum rules prohibit throwing around on this site.

So maybe we better let this one lie before moderators have to step in and shut this thread down.

Works for me.

[Leif Ohlsson]

Art Deco

Thanks for the tip about the pilots. I see what you mean about closer than I thought. It's still a bit to go until you get the fine half figure in 1:9 scale both as a full figure, and in various scales. But I can see how it is really coming!

It was fascinating to see the rows of 1:144 pilots. The small scale builders should rejoice and jump on that offer, don't you think? Would make a lot of difference.

Thanks for enlightening me! - L.

[PaperLab]

I’ve been working with 3D printing for about 13 years now. I’d like to make a couple of points: first of all there is standardization when comes to 3D files used. All 3D printers require .stl format. Another less popular but also used is .slc. Now, all CAD programs are capable of exporting into .stl so there is no problem at all in file compatibility. It’s is just not an issue.

Second, the cost of printers. In the early 2000 the top machines were capable of printing at about 25 micron layer resolution and their cost was around 80-150k like Perfactory or Viper from 3D Systems. Usually it depends on building envelope. The bigger it is the more expensive printer gets. Today new start up companies offer the same resolution for $3000 ( formlabs ). At the same time laser heads today being more efficient which makes that 25 micron stereolithography significantly sharper and more precise.
Commercial 3D printing on the other hand is capable today of 6 micron layer thickness ( Solidscape machines ). New materials from precious metals through plastics to rubber. And yes even paper ( mcortechnologies ). Multicolor or multi material parts become a new norm too.
3D printing in medicine is becoming highly effective. I suspect the next big step will happen when some innovative company deliver first printer capable of molecular printing. Than you will have things made atom by atom...

Darius
Paper-Lab

[airdave]

Originally Posted by AdamBBLee

I’ve been working with 3D printing for about 13 years now. I’d like to make a couple of points: first of all there is standardization when comes to 3D files used. All 3D printers require .stl format. Another less popular but also used is .slc. Now, all CAD programs are capable of exporting into .stl so there is no problem at all in file compatibility. It’s is just not an issue.

ah...excellent info!

Second, the cost of printers. In the early 2000 the top machines were capable of printing at about 25 micron layer resolution and their cost was around 80-150k like Perfactory or Viper from 3D Systems. Usually it depends on building envelope. The bigger it is the more expensive printer gets. Today new start up companies offer the same resolution for $3000 ( formlabs ). At the same time laser heads today being more efficient which makes that 25 micron stereolithography significantly sharper and more precise.
Commercial 3D printing on the other hand is capable today of 6 micron layer thickness ( Solidscape machines ). New materials from precious metals through plastics to rubber. And yes even paper ( mcortechnologies ). Multicolor or multi material parts become a new norm too.
3D printing in medicine is becoming highly effective. I suspect the next big step will happen when some innovative company deliver first printer capable of molecular printing. Than you will have things made atom by atom

yes...and its only my opinion that it will continue to be viable in the commercial or professional arena. I just don't ever see the "home" market being a serious one.

anyway, good info...thank you!

back to my original post...which was just about this guy trying to build a car with a small, lower end 3D printer.
I just thought this project was a pointless amount of effort.
If he was trying to assemble a body that way, I would think it a ridiculous amount of work...but he's not even doing that. He's trying to assemble a
a "plug" from which a fiberglass mold will be made...and then (probably) a fiberglass body will be made.

Why not use a bigger 3D printer and print the body itself?
That would be an awkward, and probably costly way of producing a car body,
but it would be a more interesting art project (to me).
Or at least print larger sections?
This idea of slicing up and printing hundreds of tiny tiles...

I guess I just don't get it.