3D printing on a Large Scale...pointless?

[airdave]

Like a lot of people I am impressed with many things I have seen being produced by 3D Printer technology.
The ability to produce small items consisting of many interlocking and sometimes mechanical parts (without
the need of separate part production and assembly) is nothing short of amazing.
I'm also impressed with how quickly smaller personal 3D Printers have become available and affordable to
the average consumer.

But to be honest, I really wonder what the average person would produce with a 3D printer. I think most
might knock out a few silly figures and toys, maybe a spare House Key...or get really serious and print out
a new Toothbrush Holder for the bathroom!

Lets face it...a project starts with design. And that means artistic and design skills, imagination and ideas,
and software knowledge (the ability to design in 3D on a computer).
Things a lot of "average" people don't have.
Not to mention the lack of time in peoples daily lives.
Hours, days and weeks of design might go into that next ...Ashtray or Coffee Mug.

And that brings me to this...
Replica DB4 Project | My new project car, a scratch built replica Aston Martin DB4

I am TOTALLY on board with the concept.
Copy and build a replica Aston Martin DB4...still haven't figured out if this will be a functioning automobile
or just a display "model", but either option is pretty cool to me.

But heres where I start to question "is this all just a pointless method of getting there?"

The 3D Printer used is a smaller "desktop" version.
From what I see, it prints out small sections (4"x 4"x 4"?) of a much larger object that have to be grafted
together (including puttying and sanding) to produce larger sections of the overall design.
Ignoring the time to design the object in 3D on the computer and then slice it into printable sections,
and ignoring the costs involved to print out the parts...
the amount of time and work to produce the Car body seems ridiculous.

And this is just to produce a "plug"?!
...
An internal framework of MDF board...to support a replica Car body made from thousands of individually
printed sections, bonded, puttied and sanded smooth. A replica Car Body that is not structurally strong
enough to support its own shape and weight (especially not being all these separate sections)
...all to produce a plug for a mold.
Thats right...this is just to make the plug, which will then allow you to hand lay a fiberglass mold, from which
you can cast fiberglass, resin and/or carbon fibre parts for a car body.
(So the finished body will not be 3D printed plastic)


If you were using a Printer large enough to create full size, one piece Doors, Fenders, Hood and Boot lids, then
I might be impressed with the idea of a 3D printed car. I still wouldn't want one for the road, since it would be
ridiculously fragile and unsafe and impossible to repair in case of accident. But I would still be impressed by
the 3D technology and 3D printed aspect of the project.

But to produce a scratch built Aston, the 3D printer element seems like an expensive and unneccesary element
that just serves to extend the time needed to build the car.
Replica car bodies have been produced for decades by big companies and individual hobbyists.
there are a number of methods and proven practices to creating reproduction metal parts as well as resin, fiberglass
and now carbon-fibre components.
Mold producing is a low tech artform and the only thing holding you back is the "plug" for producing the mold.
In most cases, a plug is created from actual car parts.
A mold can be made from existing DB4 parts if you can get access to them.

I guess thats the problem here...access to an original DB4 for the purpose of casting a mold from it.
And I see that as the only reason to go to this much trouble...of using 3D printer technology.
But its still too much trouble.

I would love an Aston Martin DB4...even a replica...
but to be honest, I prefer the 1:1 scale printed Paper Ford Mustang project.

...
Totally on-topic, completely opinionated...no charge for the drivel.
Dave

[Retired_for_now]

And so you cut to the heart of any production process - what is the most efficient, appropriate technology for your specific task? Nice rundown of the issues. I find it helps to think not of 3-D printing, but of the more generic additive or subtractive manufacturing. Do you build it up or carve it out? The curve ball for surfaces is the option to do neither but to shape them from a sheet (stamp, roll, or just bang it into position). Some research into how the original was made and why can help narrow down the choices - as will your access to heavy machinery. They stamp out metal car bodies by the thousands but one-off jobs made in the garage are more likely fiberglass.
However ... the latest technology does offer advantages if you are duplicating something. The ability to scan the original to produce a precise 3-D virtual model and then take that virtual model (modified or not) and translate it back into stuff in one step is (potentially) useful. You hit on the big issues - how big a thing can you make and what can you make it out of. There are industrial solutions to both, just not something that would fit in your garage.
Yogi

[Don Boose]

An excellent essay, Dave, and thoughtful insights (as always) from Yogi.

I have only the most superficial understanding of this technology, but there are straws in the wind that lead me to beleive that it is advancing quickly. I saw a PBS story about a man who has designed an automatic weapon that, with the exception of one part that must be made of steel, can be made with a 3d printer (presumably one larger than your desk model, Dave).

I've also seen some articles indicating that the U.S. Department of Defense believes the technology will continue to develop so that eventually major items of equipment and weapons systems will be produced on the spot in remote locations, simplifying the problem of transportation. Since you still can't make something from nothing, the raw material would still have to be transported in by air or overland (once the 3d printers had been deployed into the area of operations).

It will be interesting to see how, and how fast, the technology actually develops.

Don

[airdave]

Good points Don.
Every time I see an article on "printed" firearms I cringe with fear.
Imagine being able to print, at whim, an unregistered, untraceable gun
which could be used in a crime and then completely and easily destroyed.

And you are right...printing weapons at the frontlines still requires power,
printers and materials...but worse is the time necessary to do the printing.
A lot of people don't realize it takes dozens of hours just to print the smallest
of objects.

I love the Big Bang Theory episode about the guys buying a 3D printer.
They are disappointed with an order of personalized action figures, so they
spend thousands of dollars on a Printer.
In only(sarcasm) three hours they produce a 35cent Whistle that works.
In the end they produce action figures that look like themselves but it takes days of printing.
However, the figures appear fully painted in the episode
...a step which is not explained and yet very important since the printer can only print in one colour.

And on one of the review sites, I read this comment:

Redfinger says: July 15, 2013 at 2:23 pm
I love BBT but hate this episode.
I’m a Mechanical engneer thats been doing 3d and 3dprinting for over 20yrs
The whistle could not have been made, not without removing an inner substrate that would suspend the ball
The resolution on a $10-$50K PRINTER is grainy and you see the 1mm striation.
The fact is 3d printers are the .com fad of this generation.
yah like your all going to model 3d like I do in solidworks... most americas cant read!


Harks but to my own earlier comments about people needing to understand computers, software and 3D design programs.

[Art Deco]

Interesting comments, Dave!

Originally Posted by airdave

Lets face it...a project starts with design. And that means artistic and design skills, imagination and ideas,
and software knowledge (the ability to design in 3D on a computer).
Things a lot of "average" people don't have.
Not to mention the lack of time in peoples daily lives.
Hours, days and weeks of design might go into that next ...Ashtray or Coffee Mug.

Dave, why are you assuming that most people would personally design the things they "print"?

That's not how most paper modelers use their home inkjets.

I think it's much more likely that most things 3D-printed at home will be produced from downloaded designs created by people who have the necessary talent, skills and tools - just as you provide professional-quality designs in the paper modeling world.

[airdave]

I'm not assuming anything to be honest.
I'm just suggesting one aspect of why 3D printers will not be as simple to use
by the average joe-consumer...if 3D printers are targeted at the home market.

I'm sure there are some files out there already,
but I am not aware of a substantial source of printable object files.
Unlike the considerable amount of paper model files available, I don't see
enough to warrant the cost or need for a 3D printer in my house.

And when you consider the variations in programs...and source files
...you need to recognize that to print an existing file, you still need the correct software to open and use that file.
And you have to know how to use that software.
(We have people here that still struggle with printing PDFs!)

...and then you probably need a ripping program to convert the 3D file
into something your particular 3D printer can recognize.
I liken the process to print and cut vinyl...using large format print and cut machines that handle
high quality, high resolution artwork, working with specialized softwares.
Yes, its easy enough to download a vector file from the internet, but that doesn't
mean its all ready to send to cut and doesn't mean its compatible with your programs and equipment.

Although modelers and hobbyists are already imagining some limited uses
for 3D printers, I think 3D printing is aimed more at the innovator and designer...and manufacturer.
Its biggest potential being the ability to create a prototype or test a design.
3D printing can offer a quicker, cheaper inhouse method for a design house or manufacturing company.

...anyway, I was more (or less) interested in the idea of 3D printing for this car replica project.
Seemed more like a "Rube Goldberg" method of producing the mold plug (to me).

[goodduck]

I think it is really cool somebody printing a full size vehicle, even I think it is not very cost affective for what intended. Pictures are the HMMWV I build with Maya and 3d printed few years ago in 1/6 scale. Cost me little more than 20K at the end. I wonder how much it going to cost to print that 1/1 Aston Martin when it done?

[SJPONeill]

Originally Posted by airdave

Unlike the considerable amount of paper model files available, I don't see enough to warrant the cost or need for a 3D printer in my house.

I bet a 3D printer would make those Centurion track links a lot easier...!!

[Art Deco]

Hey Dave!

Originally Posted by airdave

I'm sure there are some files out there already,
but I am not aware of a substantial source of printable object files.

If you haven't seen it, take a look at this interesting site: shapeways.com. Although it's a 3D printing service (as opposed to a site for downloading files), the number and variety of designs/designers might be an indication of where things could head.

Unlike the considerable amount of paper model files available, I don't see
enough to warrant the cost or need for a 3D printer in my house.

While this technology is not yet at that point, it sure seems to be developing rapidly in terms of numbers and pricing of available printers. I recently read that this is likely to accelerate in a year or two when some key patents governing the printing process expire. And then there is the "Kinkos" business model, a la shapeways.

And when you consider the variations in programs...and source files
...you need to recognize that to print an existing file, you still need the correct software to open and use that file.
And you have to know how to use that software.

I would not be surprised if standards evolve and consumer-level apps emerge as the technology matures, similar to the situation when techs like digital cameras reached a tipping point.

Although modelers and hobbyists are already imagining some limited uses
for 3D printers, I think 3D printing is aimed more at the innovator and designer...and manufacturer.
Its biggest potential being the ability to create a prototype or test a design.
3D printing can offer a quicker, cheaper inhouse method for a design house or manufacturing company.

I don't know, if the price of printers & raw materials, and the ease of use reach a certain point, things could get real interesting. If it becomes easy and economical to "print" common household objects and things like a replacement part for your vacuum cleaner, it's hard to speculate where this could lead. And if detailed surface printing becomes possible ... !

Sorry to diverge from the printed car topic, please carry on!

[thorst]

For my part I'm really looking forward to 3D printers being more affordable. I'm designing some model parts to get them printed now, for using them as masters for duplication with resin. In the past I did this the hard way and built every master from scratch, but the limits were allways the tools. I can't spend thousands of dollars for a lathe nor do I have access to a milling machine. Everything was done by hand. 3D printing will allow me - so I hope - to get things more exact and accurate, while I have to worry only about one tool (at least for the main job).

What I fear is that the possibility to print everything - including copyrighted models - will lead to an early end of the technology. There already were some interesting articles online about this issue, and it seems that large firms (mostly toy industry) are already trying to take counteractions. I can imagine that this will also be the case for household replacement parts and similar things, with which a lot of money is made. I just hope it won't make 3D printing unalluring to modellers.

Thorsten