AAHHHHH There be pirates!

[darter]

This is bloody stoopid and stoopid is as stoopid does..

If a lowly forum member mentions a website and someone higher up the pecking order decides that it just happens to be or has recently turned pirate then any reference to the a fore mentioned website is almost immediately deleted.

So when we read the post it just reads, in red, pirate site deleted.

Whats the bloody site?

If you delete it, how on earth are the rest of us supposed to know it's a bloody pirate site?

And we will continue blindly visiting it not knowing it's a baddie and perhaps even purchasing from it.

All because someone doesn't want the site's name on the forum.

Would it not be better to edit the members post but add something like,

"You mentioned in your post www.longjohnsilversdodgymodels.sux, we believe that to be a pirate website and as such please avoid supporting them."

That way we will know which sites not to visit.
You're eventually gunna step in dog doo if you walk around blindfolded.
Better still, make a pirate site list.

Clive.

[looker]

What a - what was the word you used - ah yes - stoopid - idea.
Check out post
http://www.papermodelers.com/forum/580949-post56.html
to see what happens when some people even get a whiff of a pirate site's address.

Oh and for those not familiar with the slang, one meaning of "snaffled" is "stolen".

You want everyone given the opportunity for supporting piracy?

[Kugelfang]

There is a problem with leaving the link (or even the plain text address) to pirate sites available. Much as there are automated bots and spiders that crawl the web searching for email addresses to feed spammers, there are bots and spiders crawling around looking for web addresses--many of them legitimate. This is what makes Google, Yahoo, Bing, etc., such helpful sites. Their bots are out indexing the internet for us, the lowly users.

The more an address is found by the bots, the better the site's ranking in search engines. The better the search rankings, the more visits the site gets. The more visits the site gets (whether from search results or direct linking), the more revenue they generate for their nefarious owners via ads and the visits then, of course, increase the search rankings even more. Basically, leaving the pirate site in a post will drive a lot more traffic to the site than warn off users who will do the right thing by boycotting it.

The only solution I could see is putting the pirate addresses in some sort of restricted non-searchable location or format (i.e., maybe an image file). But that's a fair amount of labor for our administrators and, to be honest, it doesn't add anything to papermodelers.com. I forget which admin checks out the alleged pirate sites but maybe he can provide a list of identified pirate sites via email upon request, if you're really curious. Just a thought....

[rickstef]

There are many threads like yours here on the site
and what benefit does it serve for a list to be published on the web or even here on the forum listing all the sites that engage in piracy?
How does such a list benefit does it serve an Emil Zarkov, an Aaron Murphy, a John Dell, knowing that their designs, their talent, which they rightly can charge for, end up on a site giving it away freely with out and payment to the designer?
How does it benefit the community as a whole when a designer like Uhu2 pulls his designs, and those designs end up somewhere else, to be reached, outside of the designer's website, where the designer might have ads running, to help out with some extra money for paper or ink.

And as it has been mentioned, all talk on a forum or website about one site or another, will get the web crawling spiders from Google, Yahoo and Bing coming to us, and boosting those links higher in the search results, making piracy more acceptable, if you were aboard a sea going ship, and pirates try to steal your ship and cargo, would you not want to fight them off?

Rick

[airdave]

Originally Posted by rickstef

... if you were aboard a sea going ship, and pirates try to steal your ship and cargo, would you not want to fight them off?
Rick

and, if you knew the pirates names, their boat names, and the locations of their boats on the sea,
wouldn't you have avoided them already?

Don't misunderstand me...I agree there are pros and cons to knowing the locations of pirate websites
and acknowledging those who are actively involved in sharing "pirated" material.

It would definitely be helpful to look up a newly found website, to see if it is legit or has been reported as a "piracy" site.
It would be responsible, for various reasons, to call attention to the sites and people who are actively involved in model piracy and the sharing/resharing of pirated files.

Some pros:
Public admonition of those involved. (Public shaming)
Giving members the chance to avoid any unwanted interaction with those sites.
Alerting Designers to where their models are pirated so they can take action.

Cons:
Promotion of websites that are involved in illegal activities.
Posting web addresses and active links spreads contact through search engines and the like.
Alerts the public to locations of pirated files.

You could have a dedicated forum area or thread for the listing of websites and individuals actively involved in the sharing of pirated material.
But a mod would have to monitor it closely.
Maybe, do not allow direct public posts?
...only receive post submissions (for review and posting by the mod).
The mod can do a basic check of the submission and verify the information is accurate,
then a post can be made avoiding actual active links, or website name structures.
(Anything that might alert a search engine bot or the like)

I'd do this on my own forum, except for the fact that I don't want to take on all this additional work.
Which is why I can understand it isn't done here (yet).
More forum space...another mod...more mod work...etc etc
Another "con" to creating such a list?

[at6]

Another thing to consider about pirate sites is the problem with associated malware. Many of them attach malware to the stolen material which makes them not only a threat to the designer, but to the eventual "end user". That is even more of a reason not publish a link to those sites.

[darter]

The point I'm trying to make is this.

How can I or anyone else avoid a pirate website if no one tells us which ones they are?

I WANT to pay the designer and/or publisher, I WANT to use legit sites.

But they mostly all look the same to me, legit or not.

As many paper models seem to originate in Europe there are a lot of European sites offering them and not speaking Polish or Czech etc I cant tell the pirates from the good guys.

Chinese sites are different, I assume there are not too many Chinese designing Dutch sail boats for example so I don't even look there.

By not telling me which sites to avoid you are in fact helping them.

Clive.

[rickstef]

Originally Posted by darter

The point I'm trying to make is this.

How can I or anyone else avoid a pirate website if no one tells us which ones they are?

By not telling me which sites to avoid you are in fact helping them.

Clive.

So you would like a list, available to everyone else, including those whose moral compass is a bit shaky to visit any site, download whatever they want from those sites, foregoing the normal channels to benefit the designer/publishing house.

Also, you can ask any of the moderators or myself in a private message if a particular site is a pirate site or not, we have the experience of dealing with others asking the same question, and we will honestly answer you, if and when you ask.

the old saying, if it sounds(or looks) too good to be true, it probably is, applies to pirate sites and their content.
If you see a GPM or Halinski kit on a site, and there is no shopping cart, and the site makes a claim that the model is free, you can pretty much bank on the fact that it is a pirated model, GPM and Halinski do not release models as a digital download. There are some exceptions, GPM and some others might offer simple addons to their models, ammo boxes and steel buckets come to mind.

Clive, please do not take anything we have said personally, it is not worth it, many of us have made the same mistakes, but we, i hope, have learned from those mistakes and are willing to pass on our knowledge. I am the first one to say and take blame for, we as the administration team of the forum need to do a better job in communicating dos and don'ts, we are trying to craft some guidelines, but some of us work all day, or go to school(like me), so we haven't really put our heads together and work on those guidelines, we will be working on guidelines and rules, and a simple FAQ for the forum, so bear with us, we are doing our best, but we are still only human.

If you have any ideas for additions to the forum or a how to, let us know, and we will try and accommodate the request

Rick

[Zakopious]

This discussion reminds me of an Army bulletin board.
When I was in the Army, locations in the local area which were "off limits" were posted on the company bulletin.
Thus, if a soldier was looking for a good time and willing to risk being punished under the UCMJ, all he had to do was go to the bulletin board and copy an address.

[darter]

And if he was honest he would not be punished because he would avoid the off limit areas.

If he was not advised of the off limit areas and ventured there, he could not be punished because no one told him of the limits.

However, should he go there, having been advised not to and he gets caught then he must suffer the consequences.

So it is important that he was advised of the off limit areas. Simple.