Ethics of model design choices.

[Vermin_King]

Yep, it's his opinion that matters as to whether he does it. Respectfully disagree and move on

[Rubenandres77]

Originally Posted by herky

it was the designiner when i gave it as an answer to his request for sugestions so his opinion mattersas to what he disgns

It may be that the designer himself has some sort of personal feelings towards that particular subject, and that's why he answered like that.

Or maybe he has certain religious beliefs, or was raised with certain education that guide his personal choices on what to design.

In any case, if he wants to do it (or not do it), is as respectable a position as any other.

This all reminds me of another discussion some time ago when someone asked Why model War machines? That discussion was long and heated.

From my point of view, it probably has less to do with ethics and politics, and more to do with personal preferences, or a particular interest in certain subjects. Or personal feelings towards certain topic.

When I built the Titanic I never did it with the morbid idea of building a famous coffin. I did it because it was a subject I was fascinated with since I was a child when I read of Mr. Ballard and his quest to find it.


Also to consider:
Probably distance in time plays an important role here.
The more distant in time, the less concerns about the subject.
There are much less "ethical feelings" on building Roman war ships, WWI tanks, medieval trebuchets, or ancient wrecks (like the said Titanic) than there are on building models of the Enola Gay and the Fat Boy/Little Man, the WTC/Ground Zero, or any of the vehicles/weaponry used today in Syria.

The closer those events are, the more debate they raise because we are more connected to them and have our say in them. And, in many ways, they still shape our current world.

The Estonia sank less that 30 years ago. It still somehow fresh in the memory of many people, and chances are that today there are many direct living relatives of people who died there. Maybe the designer was thinking about that.

Regards,

[sreinmann]

There have been a couple of people's reactions to my builds, designs and suggestions of designs that made me a bit self-conscious too. Like, really, am I so bad to think the way I do? In the end though, my reasons are my own and I try not to lose sleep over the opinions of others - cause nothing I can do can change someone's heart.

I respect that others have their own reasons and that just because their moral compass is set to magnetic truth and mine is set a few degrees either side, makes for a more interesting debate.

[Isaac]

Originally Posted by herky

this is NOT an arguement .as i said at start there are no right of wrong answers.was just asking for views on subject.

The use of the word argument is purely academic. As in lawyers arguing their point in court. I did not mean arguments as in verbal fights.

Isaac

[Vermin_King]

But without these discussions, how does one know where their own 'moral compass' lies?

Two things come to mind. Mauther's Auschwitz gate. His feelings on designing it was that we need to remember this tragedy. He took an awful lot of flack on that. I feel undeservedly. How does the phrase go? Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.

When Mom's aunt died, among the items that were in the estate was a letter from Mom's uncle's commanding officer notifying the aunt of her brother's death in North Africa. As the anniversary of the P-40 crash that took Uncle Gene's life was coming up, I thought doing a model with a plaque on the base was appropriate. So I did a repaint and gave one to Mom and one to her sister. Mom seemed appreciative, but I have no idea what she did with it. She proudly displays the models I make for her, but not this one. My aunt, on the other hand, has hers on her piano, to be seen by all.

We all think differently, and we should respect those opinions, but we don't have a right to be not offended. If we try to protect people from being offended, we cross the line into censorship. Sometimes we need to be offended so that we keep thinking instead of being complacent drones

[airdave]

Half the WW2 Fighter models (I have in my shop) were involved in a crash and injury...maybe even a fatality.
But I don't put out the planes because of that.
In fact, I add a plane model because its a WW2 Fighter.
And maybe because its a nice looking plane.
Or it has a nice paint scheme.

The fact that it was flown by a well known pilot, or involved in a crash and/or fatality
only adds to its importance as a subject.

You could argue that the original designer of the ill fated Ferry should be at fault for designing the boat in the first place.
If he hadn't, then it would not have sunk?

If the model is created with good intentions, with respect for the subject,
and in proper taste, then theres no reason to question it.

If Mauther (for example) had presented his Auschwitz model in a different light....
maybe somehow praising Nazi or Hitler ideals, then sure, we might have something to complain about.
But the original Auschwitz stands today, in remembrance of what happened there.
Mauther's model meant nothing different.

[Butelczynski]

I have no issues with German WW2 or any other regime marked models. I have my preference but it doesn't have anything to do with "morality" of particular government.

I do have one superstition regarding models- I will not make a model of a grave stone/site but that's just a cultural inheritance from my grandmother I guess.

[AgaPablo]

There are many reasons for/against deciding designing or assembling a model, both civil or military, and usually contradicting themselves.
I never decided to assemble a model in order to be offensive or chauvinistic, but maybe somebody took offense; if this was the case I humbly ask for forgiveness.
Two examples here: One of my first models was Scheiber Bogen’s Heinkel He70 airliner; the kit came with a very convenient tri-color scheme in the rudder which I decided to replace with the nazi flag for the sake of historicity. I wanted to depict an existing plane that flew from Germany to Seville (Spain) in the 30’s; I felt proud of the final result at first, but then I must reckon that I didn’t feel comfortable seeing the swastika so often, so it was the first to be stored away to make place to newer models.
The second is my HMV USS Maine, a ship with evident discomfort to the Spanish people, but that I notwithstanding decided to buy and assemble. Why? I always had a feeling for turreted ironclads, and Maine’s design, although obsolescent by 1898 (anyway, it would have been a hard nut to crack for the Spanish navy of the day) must be reckoned as elegant. The kit is still proudly displayed at home, flying the Star - Spangled Banner but without any mention to its name, avoiding hurting sensibilities or initiating arguments as the common Spanish won’t ever recognize the ship by its silhouette.
Regards!

[herky]

lots of interesting thoughts on subject which is whole point i asked question
Ruben-----your points to consider make perfect sense to both sides of the conversation.The model i had done for me was done specifically because subject is always fresh in mind and far from causing distress actually helps deal with it from 40 years ago.
Isaac-sorry did not mean to latch on to your use of the word arguement.As a side issue my understanding that if you were designing models and publishing in germany it is against law to depict nazi symbols on them.
vermin----- totally agree with you 100%
air dave-yes i think a model can be specif without causing issues with most people.


I am enjoying reading different peoples veiws on this subject thanks for al your imput.

[Philip]

Well, here's my tuppenceworth... I'm not clever enough to argue about morality, so I'll tell a story instead.


I've built Mauther's Auschwitz Gate. I didn't really want to as I find the subject has connections too gruesome to contemplate. It was my wife who persuaded me to do it as she was looking for a Christmas present for her brother that you couldn't actually buy anywhere. It happens that her brother has a fanatical interest in all things World War II and so I picked up my scalpel and glue and set to work; the result being delivered during the festive season. The model went down a treat. So something I wouldn't want gracing a shelf in my home meant a great deal to my brother-in-law who was delighted with it.


I don't know if this says anything meaningful about anything, but there you go.