Dental Vacuum Forming & Molding Machine

[airdave]

Originally Posted by papermate

MS, see here http://www.papermodelers.com/forum/547319-post56.html. That's what I made with that "Chinese Knock-off" which I bought from Micro-Marks. Yep, it's made in China, travelled a long way to US and then back to HK China again. And I need a voltage converter to use it, it's completely ridiculous!! Why couldn't they sell in Shenzhen where I can go there to pick up and return home in 4 hours!!!

Papermate

I didn't say the machine from Micro-Marks was the "chinese knock-off".
"Made In China" is not a problem for me.

I said the one in Nobi's post appeared to be similar, but different
to the other machines offered on ebay including from the American sellers.
In the photos you can see what appears to be lower quality or inferior design of some parts.

But in this case, the price was not overly discounted...
making me wonder if its worth the risk of getting an inferior "chinese knock-off" for the same price
or buy one from a more established seller ...like Micro-Mark.

I don't use the term "chinese knock-off" as a derogatory term,
I think its already been established that Chinese manufacturers are flooding sites like ebay
with lower quality and cheaper copies(knock-offs) of more expensive equipment
including lower quality tools and machines that you should be wary of.

[MichaelS]

Papermate,

Thanks for the pics. Roughly how long did it take you to do that? Once you got proficient how long do you think it would it take?

[MichaelS]

Originally Posted by airdave

I didn't say the machine from Micro-Marks was the "chinese knock-off".
"Made In China" is not a problem for me.

I said the one in Nobi's post appeared to be similar, but different
to the other machines offered on ebay including from the American sellers.
In the photos you can see what appears to be lower quality or inferior design of some parts.

But in this case, the price was not overly discounted...
making me wonder if its worth the risk of getting an inferior "chinese knock-off" for the same price
or buy one from a more established seller ...like Micro-Mark.

I don't use the term "chinese knock-off" as a derogatory term,
I think its already been established that Chinese manufacturers are flooding sites like ebay
with lower quality and cheaper copies(knock-offs) of more expensive equipment
including lower quality tools and machines that you should be wary of.

Don't you just love living in a Politically Correct world!!

[Lex]

That aside...

@Nobi, I still need more knowledge on what plastic sheets is good for vacforming. For me it seems like a hit-or-miss with some types of sheets simply refusing to work despite all falling under the name of PVC or PET. I have found ones that work for me, probably the best thing for you is a visit to your local art/model/DIY supplier and bring back a few samples to try.

[MichaelS]

Originally Posted by Lex

That aside...

@Nobi, I still need more knowledge on what plastic sheets is good for vacforming. For me it seems like a hit-or-miss with some types of sheets simply refusing to work despite all falling under the name of PVC or PET. I have found ones that work for me, probably the best thing for you is a visit to your local art/model/DIY supplier and bring back a few samples to try.

Lex,

Your signature is so profound...

[papermate]

No, I’m not trying to defend Chinese knock-offs at all as there’s actually nothing worth defending if you don’t have a large budget to manoeuvre. What I said about getting that vacuum former from a US company is that they don’t say where that equipment is made. Had I known that it’s made in China, I would have much reservation to buy it cos I might have other avenues to buy it from China directly as I live so near China. See MM’s ad and info page. And no politics, please!

Papermate

[papermate]

Sorry double posts.

Papermate

[airdave]

On this topic...I had an argument with someone just the other day about why Made in Japan, China, Thailand, etc should not a problem with anyone.
We have been buying Asian made products for decades.

If these products are not produced in our own country then why shouldn't we buy from them?
If these products can be made cheaper then why shouldn't we buy them?
(excluding of course, those companies that rely on slave or child labour).

This particular product, for example, is produced in China by reputable companies with quality design and materials.
And is shipped and sold around the World...nothing wrong with that.
The Micro-Mark machine is a Chinese made product.

But like in any country, other companies can copy designs, produce a lower quality and inferior knock-off and sell it for a cheaper price.
The problem is these sellers (mostly from Asian countries) are flooding online sites like ebay and amazon
with this cheaper "knock-off" junk.
We all want to save a few bucks, so we try the cheap stuff...and later wish we hadn't.
In the meantime, that seller gets rich fast...and then moves on to another knock off.

Its the American dream! lol

Tip....I like shopping Amazon more than ebay.
One of the reasons is the buyer feedback.
I, myself, am an Amazon reviewer.
And I always leave detailed reviews and buyer feedback on every item I purchase.
This helps weed out a lot of "bargains" that just aren't worth it.
You can find out a lot about every item before you buy it, from real people who have.

Plus Amazon sellers offer cheaper and faster shipping options...but thats another topic.

[MichaelS]

Dave,

Had just this conversation the other day. The Japanese / Chinese thing comes from the 1950's when the Japanese DID flood our market with junk. When Toyota and Honda learned their lesson in the late 1970's the whole game changed.

The other thing that people don't think about is the huge container ships that deliver all this stuff to our ports. It is not just low labor costs that has resulted in what is now a world economy but the computerization of everything now.

People complain now because it is part of human nature to complain. But things are waayy much better now than when I was a kid (think cavemen).

Ok. Getting close to politics now so I need to go work on my Japanese Val form Murph!! (Is that irony or what?)

[papermate]

Like many developing countries, it seems to be a pattern to go through four processes of “I”, viz., Imitate, Improve, Innovate and Invent. I think China, my country, is learning and improving herself in the game of world economy and technology.

Both Dave and Michael have given their just and fair comments on this topic and I have completely no argument about that. Thanks for sharing your views.

Papermate