Java - may not be free going forward...

[Kevin WS]

Java have announced the following. Just a heads up out of interest - the old Java versions will still work.

Public updates for Oracle Java SE 8 will remain available for individual, personal use through at least the end of 2020.

Public updates for Oracle Java SE 8 released after January 2019 will not be available for business, commercial or production use without a commercial license.

If you are a CONSUMER using Java for individual, personal use, you will continue to have the same access to Oracle Java SE 8 updates as you do today through at least the end of 2020. In most instances, the Java-based applications you run are licensed separately by a company other than Oracle (for example, games you play on your PC are likely developed by a gaming company). These applications may run on the Java platform and be dependent on Oracle Java SE 8 updates beyond 2020. Accordingly, Oracle recommends you contact your application provider for details on how they plan to continue to provide application support to you.

https://www.java.com/en/download/release_notice.jsp

[Butelczynski]

So in other words on e everyone got hooked on free drugs we will have to pay for them now?

[Papierschnitzel]

Switch to Python. It's better anyway :-)

[John Bowden]

Originally Posted by Butelczynski

So in other words on e everyone got hooked on free drugs we will have to pay for them now?

Took a page outta Microsoft's Play Book

[cfuruti]

Originally Posted by Kevin WS

Java have announced the following. Just a heads up out of interest - the old Java versions will still work.

Public updates for Oracle Java SE 8 will remain available for individual, personal use through at least the end of 2020.

Public updates for Oracle Java SE 8 released after January 2019 will not be available for business, commercial or production use without a commercial license.
...
https://www.java.com/en/download/release_notice.jsp

First the nitpicking: "Java" is the name of a programming language, runtime environment and associated software platform, therefore it didn't announce anything. Its current owner and maintainer, Oracle Corporation, did.

Originally Posted by Butelczynski

So in other words on e everyone got hooked on free drugs we will have to pay for them now?

Second, this says nothing whether you'll have to pay to use Java tomorrow or in the future; this is valid for both the development tools, which programmers use to create applications, and the runtime environment, which you need to run those applications.

It just announces the end-of-line date for public updates for the 8th version. After that date, fixes of bugs and security flaws will only be freely distributed for future versions of Java. That's standard practice in the software world and for most users, it's of no concern, since

• the 10th version was launched this March and most software will be updated to use it seamlessly
• the Java virtual machine and its basic runtime support have been fairly compatible throughout history, therefore most applications written for Java 8 run fine on Java 9 and 10 even if not updated (and continue to benefit of new fixes)

Who should care about it?

• of course, programmers, who must be prepared to upgrade current software or create new applications to take advantage of newer Java versions
• the few users of current and critical applications which won't neither be upgraded (maybe the developer went out of business, or has little respect for users, or won't earn enough to afford it) nor run correctly on new Java versions (due to incompatible changes); they are the main audience of the announcement

[cfuruti]

An analogy: suppose Microsoft announces the end of public updates for Windows 10 after 2020 (since Java involves a virtual machine and support API, this is valid). Suppose further the huge bank MoneyMakers (MM for short) stores all its customer accounts using the expensive software TheVault version 5 (TV5), which is incompatible with any similar applications.
Note: it says nothing whether Microsoft will charge for upgrading or replacing W10, before or after 2020; only the end of free updates.
What does MM do after 2020 (and, like the announcement suggests, plan for it well in advance since it's a critical application)?

1. continue using W10: risky, since inevitably new bugs and security flaws will appear and bad guys will discover them
2. upgrade to W11 and continue using TV5: fine, if W11 is compatible enough with W10
3. otherwise, hope for TV6 to be compatible with W11 and upgrade both ($, at least for TV)
4. MM or TV's author could commission Microsoft for private upgrades of W10 (see, the announcement was about public updates)

Notice that, for a lot of software, the need for scenario 3 is uncommon and, in the long run, harmful to both Microsoft and software vendors.

In this analogy, of course Oracle -> Microsoft; Java -> Windows; you -> MM; your favorite Java app -> TV.

[Kevin WS]

Butelczynski, Papierschnitzel and John - so it goes I guess!

---------------------------------

cfuruti - thank you for the correction regarding my using "Java" instead of "Oracle".

I would like to apologise to anyone, who due to my slip-up, was confused or misled into believing that Java was an entity, as opposed to software.

--------------------------------

cfuruti - In relation to your two responses...

• Like Butelczynski and John I certainly got the impression that a payment scenario of some sorts would be a likely option going forward - the release also however also equally says nothing as to whether Java will remain free for users in the future.
  
• As you are obviously well versed in the topic and background here, can you explain why Oracle is then providing all this information to all new Java users, or users updating (for this is when the notification appears and the link quoted above becomes available), if it is really insignificant information, and "it's of no concern"?
  
• And, given the above, what is the point further then in additionally specifically directing information to consumers - as Oracle also provides separate information for Enterprises, Oracle Customers and Developers?

[Butelczynski]

I'm expecting my Win7 computer to stop working some day due to some software either not compatible with new internet standards or a part of the software becoming paid subscription I'm not willing to pay for

Notice how increasing number of new digital products are a "service" rather than a product. Will I miss it? I hope. I don't live long enough because it will get very messy once people start unplugging themselves. It's already happening.

[Kevin WS]

Butelczynski - you make a good point about things becoming "services" and the trend towards subscriptions.

Games are even now starting to become subscription based.

While subscription services make sense if you are using the cloud, PC users come up short. I see some software companies are also now using the angle "never subscription based" as a selling point.

[cfuruti]

Originally Posted by Kevin WS

cfuruti - In relation to your two responses...

• Like Butelczynski and John I certainly got the impression that a payment scenario of some sorts would be a likely option going forward - the release also however also equally says nothing as to whether Java will remain free for users in the future.
• As you are obviously well versed in the topic and background here, can you explain why Oracle is then providing all this information to all new Java users, or users updating (for this is when the notification appears and the link quoted above becomes available), if it is really insignificant information, and "it's of no concern"?
• And, given the above, what is the point further then in additionally specifically directing information to consumers - as Oracle also provides separate information for Enterprises, Oracle Customers and Developers?

I'm not sure Butelczynski and John actually read the announcement, which is just a warning, and not of the threatening kind. Look,

• information technology is developed in conceptual layers.
  For instance, hardware (Intel/AMD CPUs) under operating system (Windows, Linux, OSX...) under Java platform under application. When you click "Print", a dialog appears asking for details. Your application formats the doc but doesn't create the dialog, instead it asks Java to create and open it. When you confirm, it's not Java which prints your data, instead it asks the opsys to do that. The opsys kernel delegates to device drivers to actually send data to the printer, and so on.
  Each layer uses or provides abilities to its neighbors, and therefore establishes a dependency relation: if a layer is upgraded and becomes even slightly incompatible, to the user the application may become unusable
• each layer is developed by different entities, therefore upgrade policies and prices vary
• creating and maintaining an encompassing platform like Java is very expensive, yet Sun (Java's creator) always distributed all its versions and fixes for free ("free" not in the Free Software Foundation sense, but it's another history). Why? Several reasons, including fostering the creation of lots of applications which would increase demand for Sun's paid products
• I don't agree with the way Oracle has handled most of stuff inherited from Sun, but at least for Java it has continued this free upgrade policy
• however, it makes no sense for Oracle to pay developers to continue improving and fixing Java 8 (launched in 2014) forever. It's neither fair (no money back) nor much useful (most users will have upgraded to Java 9)
• the risk, of course, is a "hard dependency": a layer which cannot be easily replaced and the user critically depends on (e.g., your favorite Java 8 application crashes on Java 9 and its creator went out of business leaving no one to fix it)

That said, your points:

• about the future, take a look at the past 22 years of Java history
• the announcement is standard legalese, designed to protect Oracle from suits: a judge might believe resources are free and infinite thus forcing it to continue working on Java 8 forever ("the consumer is entitled support, even if he got the product for free...")
• it's presented at that time because the user must choose:
  • can I afford today start using an application whose current version depends on a platform which won't get security updates after 2020?
  • are the features in the upgrade worth the risk of introducing incompatibities, or should I continue using the proven, old version?
• only the user can decide whether the application which prompted the announcement (and therefore depends on Java 8), is critical enough. But, for most users, it won't matter much: maybe no incompatible, disabling changes will occur; maybe by 2020 your application will have silently migrated to Java 9 or 10
• BTW such layer-dependency issues happen all the time, and most are handled or fixed without you knowing
• the announcement is universal, and merely says different responses are possible depending on the audience:
  • the consumer, if worried enough, should ask the application developer how it will handle the 2020 transition, or maybe consider using a Java-free alternative
  • corporations are a special consumer which are more likely to critically depend on applications but also have more power to coerce a vendor (Oracle or not) to take action; they can also negotiate with Oracle and pay for post-2020 updates
  • developers must prepare for the transition, and how to answer to its customers; they might also consider, instead of Java, depending on Microsoft's C# (which BTW is very similar for our discussion purposes)
  • consumers of Oracle products incorporating Java (like the database) will receive upgrades after 2020. This is no privilege, since they paid for such products and Oracle bears responsibility for the dependency - consumers had no choice. Legally they depend on their products' upgrade policy, not on Java's